Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by OsunAmazon: 10:21am On Feb 16, 2009 |
Alaafin of Oyo to Ooni of Ife: Mind your own business From Iyabo Lawal, Ibadan THE Alaafin of Oyo, Oba Lamidi Adeyemi yesterday faulted some remarks allegedly made by the Ooni of Ife Oba Okunade Sijuade on the leadership crisis rocking the Oyo State traditional institution, saying his position on the matter is against historical facts. Oba Adeyemi, in a statement by his Chief Press Secretary, Fehintola Azeez which was made available to reporters in Ibadan also accused the Ife monarch of distorting history, urged him to restrict himself to issues within his domain. The Alaafin who is currently locked in a supremacy battle between the Olubadan of Ibadan, Oba Samuel Odulana and the Soun of Ogbomoso, Oba Jimoh Oyewumi over the headship of the state traditional council said since the issue at hand had no bearing with Ile-Ife, Oba Sijuwade has no business with it. Both Odulana and Oyewumi had been at loggerheads with the Alaafin over his permanent Chairmanship of the Obas council in the state. The duo had called for rotation of the chairmanship position among the three leading Obas and has since boycotted the council meetings. While the Ooni, in an interview at the Centenary birthday of the late sage, Chief Obafemi Awolowo, gave hard knocks to Oba Adeyemi over his stance on the matter and tacitly supported the Olubadan and Soun on their clamour for rotational chairmanship, Oba Adeyemi, in his statement, said the position of the Ooni on the matter is one sided and an invitation to anarchy. On the claims by the Ooni that Oba Adeyemi was ruling over a 'dead empire,' the Alaafin reminded the royal father that as far back as 1938, while his position was listed as the first in the rank of first class Obas, the Ooni was listed as the fifth.He said, "The Ooni, who is now claiming superiority over the Alaafin, as recent as 1938, was listed as the fifth in rank among the first class traditional rulers in Yorubaland, while the Alaafin was listed as the first".http://odili.net/news/source/2009/feb/14/6.html |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by OsunAmazon: 10:23am On Feb 16, 2009 |
Feud between Ooni and Alafin gets messier Written by OLA AJAYI Saturday, February 14, 2009 IBADAN — The perennial royal feud between the Alaafin of Oyo, Oba Lamidi Adeyemi and the Ooni of Ife got messier yesterday as the former said with the outburst of the Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuwade against him at an event to celebrate the Late Sage, Chief Obafemi Awolowo, was a clear demonstration of ignorance of history. Oba Adeyemi said this in a statement made available to newsmen in Ibadan yesterday. Alaafin said, contrary to the claim of Oba Sijuwade, he had been having a running battle since 1980 for dabbling into issues not in any way connected with him. While faulting the claim of Ooni that he was running a dead empire, he said since Oba Sijuwade was glorifying himself as the chairman of the Old Oyo State Council of Obas and Chiefs, he had shot himself in his leg.He said, “I have fifteen of such absurdities arisen from their account of their own history but I will limit it to the nine absurdities listed above for thinkers to sew together the pieces of these illogicalities and absurdities inherent in the origin of the Ooni as given by their own historian. Alaafin argued that from the Oral tradition of Ife, one could see that Oduduwa was never Ooni and Oranmiyan, a son of Oduduwa successfully drove away the Ooni to Efon-Alaye and nothing was heard of him again. “Therefore, the statement of Oba Okunade that Alaafin was his son contradicted Ife traditional history as handed over to him by his fore bears, his assertions and claims defy logical reasoning. These show the inconsistencies of the Ooni or that he is not in tune with his own history.” He added that the importance of the authority and supremacy of the Alaafin could now be explained in the context of modern empirical in controvertible record. He went further that the “internecine fratricidal war ravaging the Yorubaland from 1870-1886, on 15th of October 1881, the Alaafin of Oyo wrote a letter through Rev. J. B. Wood, the Secretary of the CMS, imploring him to contact the Imperial Majesty, the Queen Victorial of Great Britain to come and intervene to stop the war ravaging the Yoruba Nation.”, he said. http://odili.net/news/source/2009/feb/14/301.html |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Ezekiel04: 5:52pm On May 07, 2011 |
As a prince, i respect both traditional rulers but i think it is wrong for Ooni to have said what he was said to have said. I think he needs to mind his business. For the period of war between Ife and Modakeke, Alafin never intrude or pokenose into the issue. Let Ooni respect himself and mind his business. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Pukkah: 6:44pm On May 07, 2011 |
Ooni should not distort the history of the Yorubas. Alaafin is superior to any traditional ruler in Yoruba nation. There are so many documentary historical records to buttress this even if we choose to ignore oral evidence and history. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 6:46pm On May 07, 2011 |
^^^^
You are very stupiddd
The Ooni is superior to the Alaafiin |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by step1: 6:50pm On May 07, 2011 |
zstranger:
^^^^
You are very stupiddd
The Ooni is superior to the Alaafiin
Yes he is right. It is called Ooni of ile-ife just like Ooni of Sabe or Ooni of popo, while the Alaafin is called Alaafin of OYO indicating the overall ruler of OYO empire which Sabe, Popo and other yoruba kingdoms fall into. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Pukkah: 7:00pm On May 07, 2011 |
@zstranger, did you mean what you just wrote to me? What's that supposed to mean?
You should have the maturity and decorum not to throw insults or abuses at people that are not your mates in any way. I have never abused anyone on this forum and I am not about to start.
Pray, did you bring forth any evidence to controvert my assertion instead of hurriedly hurling abuses at my person. You need to slow down and take it easy. I love decent and well-bred people regardless of their tribe or religion. Take it easy boy! |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 7:08pm On May 07, 2011 |
Pukkah:
@zstranger, did you mean what you just wrote to me? What's that supposed to mean?
You should have the maturity and decorum not to throw insults or abuses at people that are not your mates in any way. I have never abused anyone on this forum and I am not about to start.
Pray, did you bring forth any evidence to controvert my assertion instead of hurriedly hurling abuses at my person. You need to slow down and take it easy. I love decent and well-bred people regardless of their tribe or religion. Take it easy boy!
Well, If you behaved yourself and act your age, there wont be any reason for me to hurl insults at you. It is insensitive of you to assert the supremacy of the Alaafin over the Ooni, the father of the Yorubas, as if it were a well supported fact. The first Ooni of Ife was Oduduwa and that speaks volume WRT the importance and supremacy of the Ooni in yorubaland. And, if you as a wayward Yorubaman would be bold enough to make spurious claims like that, then I, a well bred son of the soil have no obligation to be nice to you. You are an ediot for ever entertaining any though that places the Alaafin over the Ooni. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by tpia5: 7:37pm On May 07, 2011 |
Fstranger is just a mercenary who may not even be yoruba should his lineage be investigated properly.
How many yorubas do any of you know who sound like him?
Shine your eyes. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Mynd44: 7:38pm On May 07, 2011 |
Jobless and greedy old men who are gradually losing importancee and relevance but still they need to stay out of each other's affairs 1 Like |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by hercules07: 8:06pm On May 07, 2011 |
Stranger u know we have gone through this before, your Ooni is not fit to lace the boots of the Alaafin, I know you are a proud ife man but please do not distort history oooooooooooooooooooooooooo, just to buttress my point, who did the British Monarch sign treaties with in Yoruba land during the Yoruba Civil wars? |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:07pm On May 07, 2011 |
hercules07:
Stranger u know we have gone through this before, your Ooni is not fit to lace the boots of the Alaafin, I know you are a proud ife man but please do not distort history oooooooooooooooooooooooooo, just to buttress my point, who did the British Monarch sign treaties with in Yoruba land during the Yoruba Civil wars?
hmmmm Okay, read this and digest it: At no time in recent years have the conflicting claims of supremacy among some Yoruba traditional rulers, [size=18pt] particularly the Ooni of Ife and the Alaafin of Oyo been more evident than between October 1983 and the present. In June 1984 the in-fighting between the rulers became so embarrassing to the military government of Oyo State[/size] (which includes the traditional domains of the two rulers) that the governor had to warn the traditional rulers not to destroy the in- stitution of Obaship handed down to them by their ancestors. Yet as of July 1984, the supporters of the parties concerned were still engaged in a war of words in Nigerian dailies. On 1 October 1983, the tussle became open when, during his swearing-in, the newly elected governor of the state, Omololu Olunloyo, promised as traditional chief to both parties to find ways of resolving their differences. Then, in the first meeting of the Council of Obas held on 13 October (in which both the Ooni and the Alaafin were absent for unannounced reasons), he also told the Obas to decide on who would be their chairman. They were given the option to decide on rotation. Unlike the first meeting of the Council, the Ooni and the Ala- afin were present at the second meeting and the tussle turned into an open conflict which The Punch, a Nigerian daily, described as "the last straw that broke the crisis open" the following day. In that meeting of Thursday, 20 October, [size=18pt] the Ooni, who was made the chairman by Olunloyo's predecessor, referred to himself as the father of all; [/size] some Obas were reported to have reacted unfavorably. The Alaafin said that it was he who was the father of all, and that the Ooni had apparently not read his history well. [size=18pt]He was evidently referring to Johnson's History of the Yorubas in which the Oyo ver- sion of the origin of the Yoruba claims that the Ooni, as the care- taker of the Yoruba shrines in Ife, was the descendant of a slave, Adimu, while the Alaafin was a son of Oduduwa, the founding father of Yoruba monarchy. [/size] On 21 October The Punch reported that the new governor had prom- ised to make the Alaafin chairman of the Council if he were elected. It was probably in keeping with the promise that he suggested a rotational system and finally decided that the Ooni should continue to be chairman until 1984 when he would have completed his two terms of two years. He did not indicate the basis for suggesting a rota- tional system, but he seems to have based the ideas on the aspirations of certain members of the council PS: Johnson was an Oyo indigene, so it makes sense that his version of history accorded the Alaafin supremacy over the Ooni, which is very unfortunate, |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:12pm On May 07, 2011 |
This essay is not intended to judge the propriety of any polit- ical move on the issue. What the essay aims to do is to show how the descent from Oduduwa, an aspect of Yoruba traditional history, has been made a recurrent political issue of our time. This in itself is not irrelevant, as it shows how the past can be cited for the'polit- ical claims and counter-claims of the present. [size=18pt]Robin Law has thoroughly examined the heritage of Oduduwa from the perspective of Oyo history. Making use of the various local traditions of the Yoruba, he dismisses it as being used just as a means of legitimacy by the Oyo rulers.[/size]1 The present article is preoccupied with the analysis of the descent from Oduduwa from available, concrete, and living cultural materials of the people with a view to broadening our perceptions of Yoruba cultural his- tory. The essay compares archaeological materials from ancient Ife with some present cultural practices of the Yoruba to determine (1) who Oduduwa is likely to have been, and (2) who his descendants were. The issue is by far older than the early 1950s, which Olunloyo was trying to suggest as its origin. In his address to the tradi- tional rulers on 13 October 1983 and in his broadcast of 2 December 1983, he claimed that the struggle for supremacy between the two rulers began with the formation of the Action Group (A.G.) in 1951. The Action Group was the first political party to rule the former Western Nigeria, including the Ijebu, Egba, Ekiti, Akure, Ondo, Owo, Oyo, Ife, Ijesa, Ila and Benin kingdoms. The Unity Party of Nigeria (the rival and opposition party to Olunloyo's own party, the National Party of Nigeria) was headed by Chief Obafemi Awolowo, who was also the founder of the Action Group. Many members of the old Action Group were also members of the Unity Party of Nigeria. It was during the first indigenous government of the Action Group in the Western Region that the Ooni was first made the president of the House of Chiefs and later the first Yoruba governor. It was also during the government of the Action Group under Chief Awolowo's leadership that Alaafin Adeyemi II, supported by the National Council for Nigeria and the Cameroon (N.C.N.C., then the opposition party in Western Region), was deposed and sent into exile, where he later died. In essence, what Olunloyo was implying was that the issue of supremacy among the two rulers would not have arisen if Chief Awolowo had not formed the Action Group around Odu- duwa and Ife. The Ooni would have had to remain subordinate to the Alaafin, as under the British, particularly during the time of Cap- tain Ross. Ross was the Resident of Oyo province, which comprised Ife, Ilesha, Ila, and Oyo. [size=18pt] In Olunloyo's view, what the Action Group government did was to reverse what the British had done.[/size] Besides that, since his own National Party of Nigeria was shown by the re- sults of the 1979 election to have had a wider geographical spread in Nigeria, while its opponent, the Unity Party of Nigeria, had only the former Western region as its stronghold, Olunloyo's 1983 state- ment effectively labelled the Unity Party of Nigeria an ethnic or tribal party - an accusation that the N.C.N.C. had levelled against the Action Group during the first republic. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:16pm On May 07, 2011 |
. . . The origin of the conflict may more appropriately be credited to the British, who cannot be absolved of double-dealing in their meth- ods of colonial rule. Despite the fact that the sovereignty of each of the Yoruba kingdoms was recognized by the series of treaties signed between each of them and the British before any agreement was ever signed with Oyo, another treaty, signed in 1893, acknowledged the Alaafin as the overall ruler of Yorubaland.2 T[size=18pt]he origin of the latter treaty lay in the British desire to gain direct access to the trade of Ibadan, which was being denied by the Ijebu and the Egba, with the support of Ife (Ijebu had been an ally of Ife since the Owu war).3 Ibadan recognized the overlord- ship of the Alaafin despite its military strength, but simultane- ously supported the British when Ijebu-Ode was attacked. The British needed Ibadan trade as much as Ibadan needed British arms. So the British rewarded their allies; hence the treaty recognizing the overall headship of Oyo in Yorubaland was signed. It is possible that since the British first dealt with the Egba, who had just fought and won their independence from Oyo, they logically thought that the Great Oyo empire covered all of Yorubaland. [/size] No sooner was the treaty signed than the error of having ac- cepted the Alaafin as the supreme ruler of Yorubaland was discov- ered. This might have arisen from the desire to build indirect rule on historic foundations. [size=18pt]In a confidential dispatch on the order of precedence of the Yoruba rulers to the governor of Lagos, a British Resident of Oyo Province, H. L. Ward Price, noted that various Yo- ruba rulers used to make false claims before British officials on the matter and that he had ample evidence that the Ooni was the leading chief[/size]. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:20pm On May 07, 2011 |
hercules07:
Stranger u know we have gone through this before, your Ooni is not fit to lace the boots of the Alaafin, I know you are a proud ife man but please do not distort history oooooooooooooooooooooooooo, just to buttress my point, who did the British Monarch sign treaties with in Yoruba land during the Yoruba Civil wars?
Please dont run away now. T[size=15pt][b]he British were then faced with a dilemma. To go back on what they had done was distasteful. But the reality of the situation forced them to turn to the Ooni on certain issues involving tradi- tional rulers even outside Oyo Province. For example, in 1902 when there was a protest from the Akarigbo of Sagamu over the wearing of a beaded crown by the ruler of Epe, the clerk on native affairs in the Government House, Lagos, Henry Libert, had to write for clarifi- cation from the Ooni, whom he described as "the recognized head in Yorubaland who has the right of issuing crowns at an early date."5 In the following year, in a letter to the British travelling commis- sioner at Ilesa on the right of the Ooni to allow the Olosi of Osi in Ekiti to wear a crown, C. H. Elgee, the travelling commissioner's boss at Ibadan, wrote: "it does appear to me that the Oni [Ooni] had not in any way overstepped his rights. His power to confer crowns is universal and unique in Yorubaland[/b][/size]."6 1 Like |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:23pm On May 07, 2011 |
This traditional position of the Ooni notwithstanding, the na- tive administration was still to be headed by the Alaafin. [b] When Captain Ross was the Resident of the province, he deliberately pur- sued the policy of making the Alaafin supreme among the other major obas of the province. Atanda refers to how Captain Ross set up a court of appeal for the province and made the Alaafin its chairman, with the Ooni and the Owa of Ilesa as subordinates.[/b]7 The action was, however, resisted by these two rulers, who boycotted the court. Captain Ross might have been nursing an ambition to have a Sokoto- style administration, headed by himself and the Alaafin. The British treatment of the Alaafin up to the end of Captain Ross's residency made the latter realize the benefits of manipula- ting his political masters. He succeeded under the British, and sought to manipulate the indigenous governors in the same way. [size=18pt]But if the Action Group was to have freedom from colonialism as one of its aims (as evident from its motto "Freedom for all, life more abundant", and if it was to unite all the Yoruba against British rule, Chief Awolowo could hardly succeed with the Alaafin who had all along been the protege of the British. Hence, Chief Awolowo's line of action on the formation of the Action Group was natural.[/size]
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Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by hercules07: 10:36pm On May 07, 2011 |
Stranger, your revision of history will not and can not succeed, have you asked yourself why the Ibadans will submit to the Alaafin even when they knew he was fuelling some of the wars and yet will send the Modakekes to deal with the Ifes? We know our history, can you tell me about Basorun Ga, do you know the Oyo mesi? Reverend Johnson was not an Oyo man, he was from present day Kwara state. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:46pm On May 07, 2011 |
hercules07:
Stranger, your revision of history will not and can not succeed, have you asked yourself why the Ibadans will submit to the Alaafin even when they knew he was fuelling some of the wars and yet will send the Modakekes to deal with the Ifes? We know our history, can you tell me about Basorun Ga, do you know the Oyo mesi? Reverend Johnson was not an Oyo man, he was from present day Kwara state.
On the other thread, you claimed that Ooni was just a slave priest, now read this: We can now turn to the question of Oduduwa as contained in Oyo tradition. Oduduwa is taken as the father of the Alaafin of Oyo and six other rulers while the Ooni is supposed to be the slave priest put in charge of Oduduwa's shrine. [size=18pt] But from the available archaeo- logical materials viewed against the practice in Old Oyo described in oral sources, the descent of Oyo rulers from Oduduwa is somehow questionable.[/size] Though it is only among the Oyo Yoruba that the Yoruba face mark patterns which developed from the striations on Ife arts are adopted, the people of the Old Oyo capital were not associated with such marks. Those in the old capital are generally known as Atabaja_ those who wear abaja face mark patterns. They too refer to themselves as such. AZabaja ka re' Le, Oyo dun j'oko lo ("Wearers of abaja masks, let us go home; Oyo, the capital, is more pleasant than the farm or provinces" is part of their praise songs. Abaja marks are face mark patterns whose components are without the temple or the side of the nose marks (PeZe consists of three vertical marks on the cheek and is not considered abaja.) Abaja marks consist mainly of parallel horizontal gashes which occasionally can be surmounted by three short vertical gashes on the cheek bones. They are referred to according to the families wearing them or, more commonly, by the number of cuts which make them. There are abaja of three, four, five, six, seven, eight, and eleven strokes. Three to five are usu- ally horizontal parallel single strokes. Six can be two sets of three horizontal ones or three horizontal surmounted by three ver-tical ones on the cheek bone. Eight could be two sets of four paral- lel marks or four groups of two horizontal parallel marks made on top of one another at regular intervals. It is only in the Ejigbo and Ilobu area that I have come across this second type. The abaja of eleven is only the first type of eight surmounted with three vertical ones on the cheek bone. The earliest abaja pattern was likely to have been three, and the three most likely resulted from the traditional "cat's whiskers" which are made basically of three gashes converging at the corners of the mouth.33 The "cat's whiskers" are also represented in the arts of ancient Ife, on terracotta pieces. The Yoruba face mark patterns (related to the striations on Ife art as depicted on the second dynasty, which may have been Oduduwa group) are gombo, which have vertical elements across the temple added to some abaja pat- terns. Keke, another word for the pattern, can be misleading in that it could refer to patterns with temple elements which are of free short cuts. In Ife, it is even used as a name for the basic abaja of three which Johnson reports as the common mark of Ile-Ife,34 but which might have been of only the Modakeke part of the town, which is Oyo in origin. [size=18pt]If the abaja are the metropolitan Oyo marks and the gombo which apparently evolved from the royal striations of Ife were not common to the capital, it means that the rulers of Oyo cannot have de- scended from the straited royal figures of Ife, which might have been Oduduwa dynasty. [/size] My effort to find out more about the royal marks of Oyo reveals that the present abaja of six now adopted by the Oyo royalty belong- ed to the mother of Atiba, the first king in the present Oyo; the royal marks in Oyo-Ile were not six, but three. This was confirmed by the family of Ona Oniseawo, who have changed their original ab- aja, however, from three on the two sides of the face to abaja of three on one side of the face and pele on the other, on the instruc- tion of the oracle when the family was suffering from infant mortal- ity. The three horizontal ones are said to have come down to them from Sango, an early Oyo king, and they generally do not marry from Oyo royalty. They too have the royal eyo marks on the arm, and their story is confirmed by Omokiti and some families in Ona-Isokun Oke compound who also wear abaja of three on the two sides of their faces and have the royal marks on the arm. They too are related to the Oyo royalty according to tradition. T[size=18pt]he significance of this is that the Oyo ruling house did not develop directly from the lines of the rulers represented in the arts of Ife. As abaja patterns very likely developed from the "cat's whiskers" in Ife art and the "cat's whiskers" have been ascertained to be Yoruba marks,35 there is no doubt that the Oyo rulers were Ife in origin. But in Ife there is no evidence that they belonged to the ruling line.[/size] Since Yoruba face marks are adopted according to the father's family, they must have been a group of people in Ife who succeeded in establishing themselves in Oyo but who used the descent of a much-revered ruler of Ife to validate their positions. The claim of the Ooni to be the descendant of a slave of Oduduwa is untenable.
I[size=18pt]f any of the Yoruba traditional rulers is to be asso- ciated with a slave origin, the Alaafin of Oyo would be the most likely candidate, in the light of the origin of their facial mark- ings. The abaja markings for which they are known, as mentioned above, developed from the "cat's whiskers." In the praise songs of the rulers of both Ife and Oyo, the cat's whiskers are considered a slave mark.[/size]36 It is also the mark borne by the figure of the cross-bearer, which in Benin art has been identified as the mes- senger from Ife.37 It is the prevalence of the mark in the Niger Benue confluence that made Ryder suggest that the kingdom of the overlord of Benin when the Portuguese arrived was northeast of Benin according to the direction the Benin people pointed to as its loca- tion.38
The point here is that Ooni is the father of all. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:49pm On May 07, 2011 |
The etymological explanations for Adimula and Ooni, which are the titles of Ife rulers with which the claim is illustrated, are wrong. Adimula, which is said to have been contracted to mean "[size=15pt]Adimu, the slave, has become rich" as a word means "that which or he who is held on to and saves one." In essence, the title simply means savior. Ooni simply means "the owner of," particularly in the eastern Yoruba dialects. Thus Oonife, as the title is fully said, means "the owner of Ife.[/size]"1 Equally untenable is the claim that the founder of Oyo was the prince who inherited land from Oduduwa. [size=18pt] It is true that some time before colonialism, the Oyo kingdom was the largest and the most powerful of Yoruba kingdoms. But there was nothing to show that before the Yoruba civil war of the nineteenth century, Oyo had any control over the domains of any of Ife, Ila, Ilesa, Owu, or Benin, all of which are southern and southeastern kingdoms which sprang from Ife.[/size]
I can go on, but I think you already know where I am headed. Ooni, not the Alaafin, is the numero uno |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 10:53pm On May 07, 2011 |
This is the conclusion from the paper: [size=18pt] The Descent from Oduduwa: Claims of Superiority among Some Yoruba Traditional Rulers and the Arts of Ancient Ife[/size] Cornelius O. Adepegba In conclusion, the archaeological and ethnographic evidence made use of in this paper clearly indicates that if any rulers of the kingdoms which sprang from Ife descended directly from Oduduwa, it is only the ruler of Benin. The ruler of Ife belonged to the pre- Oduduwa rulers of the town. [size=18pt] The Alaafin of Oyo cannot even be traced to either Oduduwa or the rulers of Ife before and after Oduduwa. The claims of superiority by the Alaafin based on descent from Oduduwa should therefore not be seen as anything more than fabrications for self-aggrandize- ment which certainly do not represent a true national history of the Yoruba people[/size]. Q.E.D : Proved beyond reasonable doubt. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by PhysicsMHD(m): 12:42am On May 08, 2011 |
zstranger:
If any of the Yoruba traditional rulers is to be asso- ciated with a slave origin, the Alaafin of Oyo would be the most likely candidate, in the light of the origin of their facial mark- ings. The abaja markings for which they are known, as mentioned above, developed from the "cat's whiskers." In the praise songs of the rulers of both Ife and Oyo, the cat's whiskers are considered a slave mark.36 It is also the mark borne by the figure of the cross-bearer, which in Benin art has been identified as the mes- senger from Ife.37 It is the prevalence of the mark in the Niger Benue confluence that made Ryder suggest that the kingdom of the overlord of Benin when the Portuguese arrived was northeast of Benin according to the direction the Benin people pointed to as its loca- tion.38 @ zstranger, you don't see a glaring contradiction here? I could go into detail about why this is bogus, but for the record, the cat's whiskers mark is obviously not a slave mark. It's unlikely that any king anywhere in Nigeria is descended from a slave. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 12:46am On May 08, 2011 |
PhysicsMHD:
@ zstranger, you don't see a glaring contradiction here?
I could go into detail about why this is bogus, but for the record, the cat's whiskers mark is obviously not a slave mark.
It's unlikely that any king anywhere in Nigeria is descended from a slave.
Contradiction based on this article or contradiction WRT to the totality of the broader knowledge on this subject matter? Based on this very paper? I see no contradiction |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Beaf: 12:55am On May 08, 2011 |
According to history (Yoruba and Edo) the Alaafin is way superior to the Ooni. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by PhysicsMHD(m): 1:00am On May 08, 2011 |
There is no doubt that the Alaafin of Oyo had no authority over the Ooni of Ife and that the Alaafin of Oyo did not have authority over all the Yoruba kings as claimed, but there also seems to be no real evidence that the Ooni of Ife had any authority over the Alaafin of Oyo (see Chapter 7 of Robin Law's book on Oyo)
I'm referring instead to a specific contradiction in the paper, not the overall claim.
The cross bearer from Benin, if he actually is a messenger, was not a messenger from Ife, but rather a messenger from Benin to Ife that returns to Benin and was not be an ordinary slave, but an official. Furthermore there are multiple pieces of artwork from both Ife and Benin that depict prominent, clearly non-slave individuals with those same cat's whisker marks.
Also, if the kingdom to which that cross bearing messenger was sent was northeast of Benin as the Portuguese were told, then I do not see how that messenger's marks would be relevant to a discussion of the Ife/Oyo dispute since that messenger would instead be going to or coming back from the Igala kingdom (Idah or its predecessor), rather than Ife (which is to the west). |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 1:00am On May 08, 2011 |
PhysicsMHD:
@ zstranger, you don't see a glaring contradiction here?
I could go into detail about why this is bogus, but for the record, the cat's whiskers mark is obviously not a slave mark.
It's unlikely that any king anywhere in Nigeria is descended from a slave.
Okay, on a second look, i see what you are talking about. But that is beyond the theme of this discussion. |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by PhysicsMHD(m): 1:00am On May 08, 2011 |
Beaf:
According to history (Yoruba and Edo) the Alaafin is way superior to the Ooni.
Could you elaborate? 2 Likes |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by ektbear: 1:02am On May 08, 2011 |
fstranger: Can you edit each of your posts above and add a reference? |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Katsumoto: 1:08am On May 08, 2011 |
Alaafin was only superior in so far as Oyo was superior militarily to Ife. That superiority disappeared as soon as Oyo stopped being a power house. That Japan conquered parts of China at different times does not mean that Japan is superior to China. Ife was the spiritual home of the Yoruba and continues to be so. Secondly, Oyo came after Ife.
The title of the Ooni is higher than that of the Alaafin. The superiority of the Alaafin through the British in the 20th century was based on a false notion since there were more powerful Yoruba states than Oyo when the British arrived. 1 Like |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 1:09am On May 08, 2011 |
ekt_bear:
fstranger: Can you edit each of your posts above and add a reference?
There is only one reference. Everything was copied from the paper: The Descent from Oduduwa: Claims of Superiority among Some Yoruba Traditional Rulers and the Arts of Ancient Ife by Cornelius O. Adepegba I though I made that clear already! |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 1:11am On May 08, 2011 |
Katsumoto:
Alaafin was only superior in so far as Oyo was superior militarily to Ife. That superiority disappeared as soon as Oyo stopped being a power house. That Japan conquered parts of China at different times does not mean that Japan is superior to China. Ife was the spiritual home of the Yoruba and continues to be so. Secondly, Oyo came after Ife.
The title of the Ooni is higher than that of the Alaafin. The superiority of the Alaafin through the British in the 20th century was based on a false notion since there were more powerful states than Oyo when the British arrived.
We dont even know that. There is no evidence that Oyo ever conquered Ife. Is there something you know that is not in the public domain? |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by Katsumoto: 1:13am On May 08, 2011 |
Does Russia have to conquer Nigeria before you accept that Russia is stronger in military terms? Oyo was a powerhouse; Ife was never a power house.
I suspect most of the Yoruba states did not attack Ife because of its spiritual nature. 1 Like |
Re: Alaafin Of Oyo To Ooni Of Ife: Mind Your Own Business by zstranger: 1:14am On May 08, 2011 |
Katsumoto:
Does Russia have to conquer Nigeria before you accept that Russia is stronger in military terms? Oyo was a powerhouse; Ife was never a power house.
LOL Ok! |