DISCLAIMER
----------------

Please if you think your faith is not strong enough, i would advise you not to read nor go through this post, because certain points are going to be raised in defence of the Bible against what your senses tell you so much so that they can either strength or destroy your faith in God and the Bible.
-------------


The Bible is true, irrespective of what your eyes and senses seem to be telling you, don't be deceived, things are not always what it seems, hence why there are things called "visual illusions". Also i have come to realise via study and personal research that there are certain things stated in the bible that clearly shake the foundation of everything we have been taught to be true till this day. Unfortunately, the issue of geocentricity or heliocentricity is one of those issues that is bound to challenge the foundation of either our thinking or belief.

Yes i know some people would scoff at the idea of even trying to consider whether or not Heliocentricity is true or not considering that there is an apparent majority of people who belief in it. However i must inform you that though its true that the majority might have the loudest voice on an issue, yet it still does not determine whether or not what they believe is actually truth or not. Proper and thorough investigation helps to determine the real truth.

Yes i have also flirted with the idea of saying that bible is just being contextual in certain instances, yet it is easy to see that the bible clearly shows that some of those verses are actually records of "physical literal events", and not contextual representation of those events or deeds.

Yes I know this topic would seem like madness and stupidity to certain people, infact certain Christians would question why it is the it is being brought up. Nonetheless let us remember that the Bible clearly says that:


Jud 1:3  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.



1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be[b] ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear[/b]:


Fortunately for us Christians, the issue of Heliocentricity or Geocentricity goes a long way to provide a test of faith and logic because it strikes at the foundation of our faith. Thus making it an important issue to sort out as Christians. Meaning that if we ourselves are not able to completely overcome any doubts brought about by issues like Heliocentricity and Geocentricity, then we are invariably saying there are uncertain about areas of the Bible that we cannot contend for nor rationalise relative to what we have been taught to think.

Hence their is a serious dilemma which i want each and every person who considers himself a True Christian to please consider and re-examine, because we need to consider whether or not

1. We can always believe your own eyes and senses, whether or not the Bible says or states otherwise.

2. We as True Christians are ready to go over the ledge in faith with the bible,  against generally accepted ideas and against even our own physical senses.

3. A lot of things that you believe are dangerously connected in terms of their falsehood or their being based on generations of falsehood, so much so that you soon realise that merely disproving just one of them makes a lot of other things dependent on them to fall down and collapse. Yes a lot of things in science and everyday life have been built and developed on top of those falsehoods of which people are either too scared to confront or too scared to accept as not being true.

Relativity:
-----------------
Before I start, now there is a little thing known as "relativity" in physics. Relativity simply means the interpretation of a motion between two bodies is dependent on the frame of reference of the observers and where those observers are standing. for example:
- Someone standing on the moon or on earth or on sun would give different interpretations of the motions of either the moon or earth or sun because his/her frame of reference would be different.

- Likewise to a person in a supersonic plane, a snail moving on the ground would look stationary, because the speed of the plane is extremely fast relative to the frame of reference of the observer.



A. According to Creation (i.e. 6 literal days creation) ,  which I completely believe, the bible says that the Earth was created before the Sun.

B. According to Evolution the sun existed before the earth,


Hence present day, cosmologist believe that the:


1.  Earth is going round the Sun,
2.  Earth is rotating on its axis,
3.  Even Pictures and videos from space give the visibly seen impression that the earth is rotating on its axis.


Yet in contradiction to the above generally believed points, the bible says that

1. The Earth is stationary in position, suspended in space and circular according to the bible, according


Isa 40:22  It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: - - - - obvious spherical nature of the earth



Job 26:7  He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and[b] hangeth the earth upon nothing[/b].  - - - - suspension in space



1Ch 16:30  Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. - - - - stationary earth



Psa 96:10  Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously. - - - - stationary earth



Psa 93:1  The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. - - - - stationary earth


2. The Bible also says that the moon and sun are the ones going around the earth, not the other way round (- - - - yes i know it sounds different from what our senses and education tells us).


Jos 10:11  And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
Jos 10:12  Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and[b] thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon[/b].
Jos 10:13  And[b] the sun stood still[/b], and[b] the moon stayed[/b], until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Jos 10:14  And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel


Please notice the following that can be observer from the above bible verses:

           a. The Sun stood still,  i.e. the Sun stopped moving.

           b. The Sun must have been moving for it to have stopped in the first place.

           c. The Moon stood still ,  i.e. the Moon stopped moving

           d. The Moon must have been moving for it to have stopped in the first place.

           e. THE BIBLE MAKES IT CLEAR THAT both the Sun and the Moon stopped moving AT THE SAME TIME

           f. The Bible did not say that the "Earth stopped rotating",  so why do we Christians assume that it said so.

           g. The Bible did not say that the "Earth stopped moving" ,  so why do we Christians assume that it said so.

           h. The Bible did not say that the Earth was rotating in the first place,

           g. If people refuse to believe the bible and thus choose to say that the Earth merely stopped moving around the sun (to make the sun remain in the same place on earth), then it means that for the Moon and Sun to have been seen to stop moving at the same time, then it means they were both not moving in the first place. This is because if we assume Earth is moving around the sun and the Moon is moving around the earth, and the Sun is stationary, then it means that both the Moon and Sun can never become stationary at the same time that the Earth stops moving. This is obvious from simple geometry.


3. The original Michelson–Morsley experiment was NEVER successful, hence there has NEVER been a scientific experiment that proofs that the Earth is rotating nor was it proved that Ether existed or did not exist. By the way it was an experiment that would have shown that the earth was moving through space, yet the results were completely negative,

4. Another Michelson experiment that occurred "around" 1925 via a huge grant from the university of Chicago also failed to detect any rotation of the earth.


5. Also via laws of logic, since the Earth was created before the Sun (by biblical 6-literal day creation accounts which i completely believe) ,  then can you please tell me exactly what it was that the Earth was supposed to be encircling before the Sun was created (if Heliocentricity is assumed).


6. Please let us note that it has been said scientifically that both Heliocentricity (i.e. Stationary Space-time + moving Earth) and Geocentricity (i.e Stationary Earth + moving Space-time) would both produce/allow for the " Coriolis effect". Hence the existence of the Coriolis Effect alone is not a scientific proof for the existence or non existence of either Heliocentricity or Geocentricity.

7. Penultimately, the problem of the existence of the North Star makes things far worse for an Heliocentric view, .simply for the fact that an Earth rotating around the Sun can NEVER NEVER ever have anything called a North Star, for the simple fact that the any star above the earth's north pole area would "constantly" be changing as the if the earth were to be revolving around the sun. Thus the only possible way that North Star can remain aligned is if and only if the EARTH IS STATIONARY , something that is only possible under a Geocentric view.

8. Finally, in response to those who think satellite videos and images are proof for rotation of the earth, please understand that it is deceptive and erroneous to visually try to determine whether or not the earth is rotating or not based on pictures and videos from satellites in space or space station. This is because our eyes "would only get deceived by the illusion of relative motion". By this, I mean our eyes would make us think that space-time is moving around the earth assuming we were standing on the surface of the earth and then looking into space (because our brain automatically takes earth as a stationary reference). At the same time our same eyes would also tell us that the earth is rotating, assuming we were in space looking down on earth, (because our brain in this case automatically takes space as a stationary reference). Hence merely trying to deduce whether or not the earth is rotating merely via what our eyes are seeing, is simply doomed to fail because our results would always give us something different based on our frame of reference. (That was why i tried to simply the basic principle of theory of relativity earlier)

Finally to those who mentioned that the case of Foucault's pendulum proves the earth is rotating, this is not true. Instead the effect noticed via the Foucault's Pendulum is easily explained not to be true via Mach's Principle.
By the way do you realise that the logic of "INERTIA" likewise reveals that it can also be argued that the "non-existence of rotation forces effect on us who are on the surface of the earth" negates the fact that inertia implies that we ought to feel the effect of a earth rotational speed of around 1669.8 km/h.

Also note that If Heliocentricity is assumed or Geocentricity is assumed i.e. the relative motion "illusion effect" result is still the same even if if Space-time is stationary and Earth is moving (within space-time) or If Earth is stationary and Space-time (which encompasses the earth) is moving. Hence it becomes easy for the keen observer to observer the inherent issues of relative motion based on point of observation.

Hence whether we like it or not, there is a seriously big problem between either believing either the Heliocentricity or Geocentricity in relation to Biblical 6-literal day creation. Each of us has to make a decision as to whether or not it is the earth moving through space-time around the sun or is it space-time rotating around the earth and dragging everything else along with it (including the sun).

Hence we have a big problem in our hands:


1. Do we believe Heliocentricity (i.e. the view that the Earth is rotating on its axis and that it is going around the Sun and that the Sun is stationary at the center of the solar system) ?. If the answer is Yes, then there is a big problem because the Bible clearly states that the Earth was created before the Sun.

2. Do we believe the Geocentricity (i.e. the Earth is not rotating and that it is not going round the Sun, but rather that Space-time is actually the one going round the earth, to make it even more interesting, the Bible says the Earth is stationary.)


,  I HOPE AND PRAY THAT YOU WOULD MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE YOURSELF, 

GOD BLESS YOU

Yes, faced with the rubbish in the bible, what do you do? Bury you head in the same rubbish while claiming it to be right on the basis if faith. What a shame.

What on earth is this gibberish?

Space-Time revolving around the earth? Where did you get that principle from? Did God tell you Space-Time is revolving around the earth?

This attempt to make people accept 'theories' in order to make the bible true is laughable.

God will not ask you 'do you believe the earth is stationary' before letting you into heaven. Faith in Jesus is the key.

Stop trying to force people to believe unreasonable theories.

Satellites in space have shown the earth revolving, you are here claiming some experiment wasn't proven??

No2Atheism:



3. Michelson–Morley experiment was NEVER successful, hence there has NEVER been a scientific experiment that proofs that the Earth is rotating nor was it proved that Ether existed or did not exist. By the way it was an experiment that would have shown that the earth was moving through space, yet the results were completely negative,

Is that the only experiment you know of? Enlighten yourself and stop believing lies

The Foucault experiment, a very SIMPLE one, has proven the earth's rotation for years now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum

The words you are interpreting to mean stationary earth are not talking about the rotation of the earth, they are talking about the earth moving underneath your feet. You can't move the earth no matter how much you try, so in that sense, the earth cannot be moved or it's position changed by MAN. That does not mean it doesn't follow laws of rotation.

You are simply going to run yourself mad if you continue in this exercise of literal taking of everything. From Joshua's PERSPECTIVE the Sun stood still.

Stop talking nonsense about our senses telling us otherwise. You cannot detect by your senses that the earth is rotating. The sun APPEARS to move everyday, not the earth, so stop this crap you are going on about.

1. The Earth is stationary in position, suspended in space and circular according to the bible, according

lol the Earth is spherical.  hopefully your kids never ask for your help when in comes to Geography or Physics 

i'm not surprised No2Atheism is the same SysUser that got repeatedly embarrassed by KAG.

The Bible has always been misused to defend bloody crusades and tragic inquisitions; to support slavery, apartheid, and segregation; to persecute Jews and other non-Christian people of faith; to support Hitler's Third Reich and the Holocaust; to oppose medical science; to condemn interracial marriage; to execute women as witches; and to support the Ku Klux Klan. Shakespeare said it this way: "Even the devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."
We'd like to believe that no person of good will would misuse the Bible to support his or her prejudice. But time and time again it has happened with tragic results.
open your eyes. educate yourself, use your brain and make your OWN judgment about what's right or wrong.

damn i love the internet.

@debosky, @bawomolo , and @posters, yes you are all welcomed, by the way I have seen your initial comments and i have made some modifications to my initial original posting (you would notice the modifications if you painstakingly go through the original posting), so that my reason and arguments are better presented and defended.

Yes i know most of you probably think I am crazy or something, I would also probably have said the same thing about myself before now, assuming I didn't understand the depth of the question this thread is trying to bring forward and answer at this moment in time.

Your kind contribution would be kindly welcomed,

Bawomolo, hello how are you, I hope all is fine and great with you, thank God Almighty,
i know you would have remember by now that "i am not really moved by insults", considering that I left Nairaland for around less than a year because the usernames SYSUSER, SYSUSERX were banned from Nairaland and also because i had lost interest in the forum itself by that time.

Please note that no more personal replies would be directed to either bawomolo or debosky , this thread was started in other to get an informed discussion and not unneccessary personal ridiculing.

Thank you.

Oh no! It seems someone is stuck in the 10th century. . . . Don't worry the earth is flat and has 4 corners ok! Christianity was much easier to practice then.

Amazing how satellite pictures and videos are illusions but 'space-time' movement isn't. 

Amazing how satellite pictures and videos are illusions but 'space-time' movement isn't.

, come on now you can do better than that , that is basic university physics.

Notice my statement, I said the illusion of motion with a "frame of reference" (i.e. where the observer is observing from) occurs as a consequence of the relativity.

I did not say space-time is an illusion, please get your facts straight and read through the original post properly, no need to support a dogma via mere misrepresentation of words or statement.

Anyway i am not going to repeat myself, since i have already explained the theory of relativity in simple english, in the original post of this thread, showing why relative motion of the earth from the view of the observer in space (via satelitte videos) can both be interpreted as the relative motion of spacetime against a stationary earth or a relative motion of earth against stationary space time, so you see, nothing spectacular as been said or pointed out by the above quotation.

, yes you can scoff , By the way do you realise that spacecraft paths and trajectories are also calculated based on the assumption that the earth is stationary (something contrary to Heliocentricity) ,

@Poster
evidently this is a very poor and unsolicited attempt at justifying the bible, not that the biblical account is wrong but one thing you have to realise is that though some of the scriptures were inspired, it was written by ancient men in the way they understood it. Our level of understanding today defers so we see and understand things in a different perspective. You don't have to ridicle the bible by this poor atempt to defend what is not needed. Some questions i would like to ask are this? Do you know how the bible came about? Was it from God? Who chose the books of the bible? why were some books left out? why were the books included added? How many various versions of the bible are there? Have you heard of the greek bible, ethopian bible, coptic bible, armenian bible and the syrian bible? Cos all the bibles we use today are various translations of the roman catholic bible in an editted format. I think you should study more about the bible before you come and start trying to defend it.

not that the biblical account is wrong but one thing you have to realise is that though some of the scriptures were inspired, it was written by ancient men in the way they understood it.

hmm, isn't that a smart way of saying, Helicentricity is correct because the bible cannot be right.

1. I am not trying to justify the bible
2. The bible is true i am not trying to prove its true.
3. I am merely trying to open the eyes of those people who think they can try to squeeze in worldy views into the bible, so that they can clearly see that its either the believe the bible at its word or not at all.
4. Accepting both Heliocentricity and Geocentricity is a misnomer for a prophesing Christian since its obviously clear that they both cannot be true at the same time, as they are self contradictory.

Please can u kindly go through the original post and point out line by line where the problems are, so that it can be clearly seen, which one of Heliocentricity or Geocentricity you think is true, since they both cannot be true at the same time.

I think that doing the above would be better than pointing fingers of better than adequate understanding of the bible.

thank you,

No2Atheism:

yes you can scoff ,  By the way do you realise that spacecraft paths and trajectories are also calculated based on the assumption that the earth is stationary (something contrary to Heliocentricity) ,  

The assumption is not that the earth is 'stationary', but that RELATIVE to the spacecraft, the earth IS STATIONARY.

Any space craft on the earth is moving at the same speed at the earth, so to take OFF from the earth, you must be moving faster than the earth is moving. Removing the 'base' speed at which the earth is moving results in the 'stationary' calculation you are talking about.

I have given you the experiment of Foucault, conducted ONLY on the earth, without going to space to confuse you. It shows CLEARLY that the earth is rotating. Can you disprove this well established experiment as well?

If we judge by SENSES, then the earth is stationary and the sun and moon are moving. This is likely what Joshua experienced.

I have said it before -

1Ch 16:30  Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psa 96:10  Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that[b] it shall not be moved[/b]: he shall judge the people righteously.

The above scripture refer to the fact that NO HUMAN [/b]can move the earth. In that sense, the earth [b]SHALL NOT be moved because we are INCAPABLE of doing that.

@ Kunle

Let us even leave the issue about what books are in the bible or not. His interpretations are not only wrong, they are not based on biblical evidence. Even today we talk of sunrise and sunset because of our perspective, but there is incontrovertible evidence that the earth is MOVING.

debosky:

@ Kunle
Let us even leave the issue about what books are in the bible or not. His interpretations are not only wrong, they are not based on biblical evidence. Even today we talk of sunrise and sunset because of our perspective, but there is incontrovertible evidence that the earth is MOVING.

Point taken i would just sit back and enjoy the thread

I apologize for breaking my promise not to reply directly to you debosky, I had to because, your statements and conclusions were similar to someone trying to squeeze ideas into the bible, when the bible clearly said something else different from what you are interpreting it to be.

Yes I understand if you guys are disturb by the fact that the Bible clearly gives a Geocentric View, compared to the generally held Heliocentric view, hence its understandable that you guys are a little uncomfortable, however what i would not accept nor allow is if you are now trying to "reinterprete the bible" in other to make it look like the bible was either vague on the issue ,  (am sorry but the bible was very very very clear) or that the bible was supporting the heliocentric view of the universe,

Genesis creation account, and, [b]account of Joshua [/b]clearly shows that the Bible represents a Geocentric View, SO DEAL WITH IT, because God's Word would not change because you are not comfortable with it.

First and foremost guys and gals, please try go through the simple summary of Relativity motion that i have already explained earlier, a clarity of it would help you to understand that Satellite videos from space are inherently flawed once you consider the simple fact of theoretical physic that makes it obvious that those satellite videos can only show you the "relative motion" between EARTH and the SPACE-TIME FABRIC, it does not and cannot show you the ABSOLUTE MOTION of SPACE-TIME ITSELF. Also it cannot show the ABSOLUTE MOTION of EARTH itself, hence why it cannot be an absolute means of determination of whether or not the EARTH is moving or not.

Infact let me try to help you understand the concept of this relative motion satellite videos even further. I am going to use a crude 3-dimensional analogy:

1. Imagine that there is an orange at the center of a spherical bowl that is completely filled with water such that you somehow manage to anchor an orange " at the geometrical center of this spherical bowl"
2. Now notice that can analysis this setup as " having an orange being submerged at the center of the spherical water volume" or " as having the orange being surrounded by a spherical water volume"
3. Assume you use your to start whirlpool in the water centered around the center of the spherical bowl (i.e. the whirlpool goes around the orange at the center of the spherical bowl), Imagine that there is a tiny cameraman A placed on the orange , and another tiny cameraman B is place inside the turning water (and he turns along with the whirling water in such a way that he does not feel the movement of the water at all).
4. Obviously, it is easy to see that Cameraman A (standing on the orange) would interprete the event to mean that the Orange is stationary and the water is going around the orange.
5. In constrast however it is also easy to see ,  it is likewise easy for the Cameraman B (who is going round and round with the water) to wrongly think that the water is stationary and that it was the orange that was turning.
6. Obviously it becomes clear that both Cameraman A and Cameraman B cannot be both correct at the same time, however it must be noted that from the principle of relativity, both Cameraman A and Cameraman B are actually correct by their observation provided you put into consideration their frame of reference.
7. THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN GIVE AN ACCURATE ASSESSMENT OF WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON IS SOMEONE OUTSIDE THE SPHERICAL BOWL OF WATER (GOD in our case, ), since both cameramen A and B (everyone on earth and space are still both inside our own spherical bowl) are inside the spherical bowl of water, hence their(our) frames of references are invariably going to affect their observation so much so that we can only obtain a relative sense of motion.

The above scripture refer to the fact that NO HUMAN can move the earth. In that sense, the earth SHALL NOT be moved because we are INCAPABLE of doing that.

, stop reinterpreting the scripture to fit your worldview, wow,

Kindly please show me "by highlighting boldly" where and how the scriptures quoted show that the bible was saying that NO HUMAN can move the earth,
Don't interprete to me what you think the bible said, your interpretation is worthless, instead clearly show me by highlighting boldly where the bible said the earth is moving,

1st the issue with the 6-day literal days, now this one also,


Don't you realise that you are re-interpreting the bible in other to make it fit popular opinion,
Don't you realise that the bible is true whether or not popular opinion agrees or not,
Do you now see what i mean when i said it was dangerous to try to interprete the bible to fit the observation,
Don't you realise that the bible said the EARTH WAS CREATED BEFORE THE SUN,
SO can you kindly tell me what exactly it was that the EARTH WAS REVOLVING AROUND BEFORE THE SUN WAS CREATED,

I am astounded that you don't realise the ramifications of your statements,

For goodness sake even if you refuse to believe anything else that I saw, at least try to see from the creation account in Genesis that the bible clearly said that the EARTH was created before the SUN and MOON, so how for goodness sake can you now still reason that you believe in Heliocentricity, knowing fully well that that the EARTH existed before the SUN, hence the EARTH couldn't have been revolving around anything, meaning that HELIOCENTRICITY IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF THE SUN WAS EXISTING BEFORE THE EARTH.

Am afraid but if you can't see the relationship between Evolution and Heliocentricity, then i can't help you, no matter what i say.

To say am dumbfounded with your opinion and state of mind concerning biblical truth would be an understatement,

If we judge by SENSES, then the earth is stationary and the sun and moon are moving. This is likely what Joshua experienced.

Stop trying to put your interpretation into the bible, the bible did not say "the earth stopped moving",  "the bible did not say the earth was stationary", the bible said: SUN and MOON both stopped moving,

Stop trying to put your own logic into the bible, by implying that you think you know what Joshua experienced, the bible already told us what Joshua experienced, the bible said that the SUN and MOON stopped moving , nothing more nothing less,

The only reason that i am thinking of, which probably makes you to have a problem believing the bible is true when it said "the sun and the moon stopped moving", is probably because current general public opinion goes against the possibility of the sun and moon stopping because public opinion assumes without proof (i repeat without proof) that the earth is going round the sun and that the earth is rotating on its axis, 

As far as I am concerned, I WOULD TAKE THE BIBLE AT ITS WORD, WHEN THE BIBLE SAID THE SUN AND THE MOON STOPPED, (meaning they were moving in the first place for them to have stopped),

You can go ahead try to re-interprete the bible to fit your "opinion of what you think the bible is saying", good luck to you.

-----------------------------------

I have given you the experiment of Foucault, conducted ONLY on the earth, without going to space to confuse you. It shows CLEARLY that the earth is rotating. Can you disprove this well established experiment as well?

Finally concerning your Foucault Pendulum, the Foucault Pendulum does not prove that the earth is rotating. Instead the effect noticed via the Foucault's Pendulum is easily explained not to be true via Mach's Principle, (again I repeat that Foucault Pendulum has nothing to do with any postulation of a fantasy rotation of the earth. Infact even, the Coriolis effect would also exist under a Geocentric View of the Universe, hence negating the presence of those effects alone as proofs for Heliocentricity.

So please henceforth please understand that the Mach's Principle shows that Foucault Pendulum does not prove that the Earth is rotating,

----------------------------------

Moreover ALL SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTS SPECIALLY DESIGNED BY MICHELSON TO SHOW EARTH'S ROTATION HAVE FAILED TO DETECT OR SHOW ANY ROTATION OF THE EARTH.

1. First and foremost, I would advise each and every one to go through my original post (i.e. the first post of this thread), go through it line by, understand it and cross-check your bible for biblical references,

2. if you are still not convinced after the first stage,  Then check my rebuttals to comments on this thread,

3. If you are still not convinced after the second stage then check and read up on the following, hopefully they would help you see the light in scientific support of geocentricity:



- Varshni's rings of quasars

- Redshift Steps

- The Sagnac experiment

- Michelson-Morely experiment

- Large Scale Structure of the Universe (Van Flandern, Tom; Meta Research Bulletin 9:48, 2000. Citing; science, 288:2121, 2000)


4. If none of the above helps, unfortunately i no longer have an idea of what to do to help you see the point,

No2Atheism:


Do you now see what i mean when i said it was dangerous to try to interprete the bible to fit the observation,
Don't you realise that the bible said the EARTH WAS CREATED BEFORE THE SUN,
SO can you kindly tell me what exactly it was that the EARTH WAS REVOLVING AROUND BEFORE THE SUN WAS CREATED,

I see your dilemma.  The fact that the earth is rotating on its axis, revolving round the sun and tilting on its axis at the same time is wrong because the writer of Joshua thought that was impossible. Interesting!

Well I want to ask you why 1. You didn't cut out parts of your body that have caused you to sin in the past. Matt 5:29

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Or maybe you haven't committed any evil act since you got born again.

2. You barb your hair and shave  Lev 19:27 

27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.


3. You don't eat bread baked with human faeces Ezekiel 4:9-12

 9 Take thou also unto thee wheat, and barley, and beans, and lentiles, and millet, and fitches, and put them in one vessel, and make thee bread thereof, according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon thy side, three hundred and ninety days shalt thou eat thereof.

10 And thy meat which thou shalt eat shall be by weight, twenty shekels a day: from time to time shalt thou eat it.

11 Thou shalt drink also water by measure, the sixth part of an hin: from time to time shalt thou drink.

12 And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. 

These are just three statements that are taken LITERALLY from the KJV bible and I would like to know without any extra interpretation why you do not do these.

First and foremost, STOP STOP STOP, ALL THIS NONSENSE, you are merely trying to be sneaky with biblical interpretation, the bible is very clear no need for you to try to be sneaky by pretending that Joshua's account was not a literal account. It was a literal account deal with it, GOD IS NOT AN AUTHOR OF CONFUSION, GOD SAYS WHAT HE MEANS AND HE MEANS WHAT HE SAYS,

-- CREATION ACCOUNT IS NOT A CONTEXTUAL STATEMENT --

-- JOSHUA ACCOUNT IS NOT A CONTEXTUAL STATEMENT --

GOD HIMSELF SAID HE CREATED EVERYTHING IN 6-LITERAL DAYS.(why is that so difficult for you to understand).
GOD HIMSELF SAID HE CREATED THE EARTH BEFORE THE SUN, (why is that so difficult for you to understand).
THE EARTH CANNOT BE REVOLVING AROUND THE SUN FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT GOD HIMSELF SAID HE CREATED THE EARTH BEFORE THE SUN,


Secondly, For goodness sake please check my previous posts, check all that i have written as rebuttals in response .
Crosscheck the facts that i have presented and then try to disprove "line by line" all the biblical verses that i have presented, instead of presenting completely unrelated bible  verses in our botched attempts at trying to twist what God clearly says.

Stop beating around the bush, its either you believe the bible or you believe your own logic,

WHY IS IT SO BLOODLY DIFFICULT FOR YOU PEOPLE TO ACCEPT THE BIBLE FOR ITS WORD, WHY ARE YOU ALL TRYING TO SAY THE BIBLE SAID SOMETHING ELSE WHEN IT DID NOT,

INFACT PLEASE ABEG TRY AND SHOW LINE BY LINE WHERE THE BIBLE SAID ANYTHING THAT SUPPORTS YOUR VIEW,

I see your dilemma.  The fact that the earth is rotating on its axis, revolving round the sun and tilting on its axis at the same time is wrong because the writer of Joshua thought that was impossible. Interesting!

WOW, WOW, HOLD ON, WHERE DID YOU GET ALL OF THAT FROM THE BIBLE ,

Let me repeat, in case you can't still see the point i am making,


1. The Bible is true.

2. I did not say the writer of book of Joshua said anything is impossible, on the contrary, i am even the one claiming here that what the bible said in the book of Joshua is exactly truthful contrary to the opposition of you people (and I have provided scientific references to back it up, so that those who trust science more than the bible can at least likewise see the point I have been trying to make). As a matter of fact, the only people in error here are those people saying that the writer of Joshua implies that the Universe is Heliocentric, THE BIBLE ITSELF CLEARLY SAYS THAT THE UNIVERSE IS GEOCENTRIC.

Please check my previous and original posts and also check your facts , I DON'T WANT TO KEEP REPEATING MYSELF, 

3. We must never re-interprete the bible to fit what the world thinks is true, human history is full of errors, scientific history is full of errors, only biblical history is known to be consistent and true.
Infact it is outrightly deceitful for anyone to claim that Book of Joshua claims that the earth is rotating on its axis or that the earth is revolving around the sun.
Saying that alone amounts to the fact that the person in question is disregarding Biblical fact and scientific principles and experiments. Infact it shows clearly a lack of understand and faith in God for such a man to want to change or re-interprete the bible to make it fit current ideas about Heliocentricity. I am even the one fighthing tooth and nail just to show to you and others that the Bible is True when it says the universe is Geocentric, I provided Joshua's account to back that up, I provided Genesis account to back it up, I also provided scientific references to back up my statements.

So please go through ALL my posts before making erroneous statements,

Notice from bible verses below that:


Jos 10:11  And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
Jos 10:12  Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon .
Jos 10:13  And the sun stood still , and[b] the moon stayed[/b], until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven , and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Jos 10:14  And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel



4. The Bible did not say the earth is rotating on its axis, (I don't know how come your own bible now says that the earth is rotating on its axis), please show a bible verse that supports your view, STOP GUESSING, STOP RE-INTERPRETING THE BIBLE, SHOW THE BIBLE VERSE THAT SUPPORTS YOUR STATEMENTS,

5. The Bible did not say that the earth is revolving around the sun, (I don't know how come your own bible now says that the earth is revolving around the sun), please show a bible verse that supports your view, STOP GUESSING, STOP RE-INTERPRETING THE BIBLE, SHOW THE BIBLE VERSE THAT SUPPORTS YOUR STATEMENTS[/b]

, What is even more embarrasing and saddnening about this case is that even science itself does not support Heliocentricity, hence how come you people are hell bent on supporting a false dogma (linked to the theory of evolution) is really mindbungling,

I pray God opens your eyes, because all your statements are not only disheartning, they are outright saddnening,

So the scriptures I quoted weren't literal? How then do I determine which sentences written in the bible should be taken literally.OR do you bake your bread with faeces and still keep slaves?

The earth rotating or revolving can not be in the bible because the persons that penned down the books of bible had no idea that was plausible. I would not attempt to prove to you that the earth is flat or a sphere of if it rotates because you have decided that since it isn't written in the bible then it is IMPOSSIBLE hence my decision to ask if you obey and practice every single command written LITERALLY in the bible like the ones I asked you.

I guess the people in biblical days never used figures of speech in their daily talk or writings. And the mustard seed is indeed the least of all seeds ( see Matt 13:31-32)

31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Maybe you should open a thread and claim that all seeds smaller than the mustard seed are not seeds since it is written LITERALLY that the mustard seed is the least of all seeds. Maybe we can begin to bring evidence to prove that the Orchid seed is indeed a seed as it is smaller than the mustard seed.

My job is to tell you the truth, mine is not to convince you, The Holy Spirit is supposed to lead you into all truth,

I have told you the truthful information that the Bible says that the Universe is Geocentric,
I have told you the truthful information that Creation account shows that the Earth was created before the Sun, hence could not have revolved around the Sun,
I have told you the truthful information that even Scientific principles and deductions prove and show that the Universe is Geocentric,
I have told you the truthful information that Heliocentricity is unbiblical and its one of the bed rock of evolution,


Whatever you or anybody else for that matter makes of the truthful information I have provided, is yours and yours only, , "it is written:

Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
"

Above all things I pray to God Almighty that you and I make it to the marriage of the Lamb ,

My Work with you is done, later, God bless you,

I have gotten the message thou messenger of truth.

I shall from today henceforth ignore every thing that negates any literal sentence from the bible.

a beg o! this poster self na xtian or abi mus.li.m? i no understand

I didnt have to read what you wrote, but just seeing the quotes from the bible is amazing.

You are quoting the bible to support the bible.


HM amazing

If you follow the bible text literally and truly believe that it is 100% true, what is stopping you from killing people of other faiths when God specifically commanded you to do just that:

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst."  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Or what about this one:

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

   "Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

As you can see, if you go down that road and take the bible literally, you will become a very dangerous person indeed and i just hope that the authorities catch you before you fulfil the word of God upon your fellow human beings.

I understand your dilemma, but here's a possibility that you would probably find very hard to comprehend, 

Maybe, just maybe, the Bible is NOT true.
If you are able to even consider that for just 1 minute you will find that everything starts to make a lot more sense.

Respects