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| After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Frankdamaxx(m): 8:34pm On Jun 09, 2015 |
After using Total 20w50 for 6 years plus on my 2001 Honda Civic, Is there any effect if i want to change to the manufacturers recommended 5w20? |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by honmusa(m): 8:44pm On Jun 09, 2015 |
Frankdamaxx:When u do the change ,try to observe your engine for any issue.And if no issue ,you are good to go. |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by GAZZUZZ(m): 9:37pm On Jun 09, 2015 |
Frankdamaxx: Don't even think about it! You might end up knocking your engine. 3 Likes |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Frankdamaxx(m): 9:56pm On Jun 09, 2015 |
GAZZUZZ: So na to dey use am dey go? |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Piyke: 10:02pm On Jun 09, 2015 |
GAZZUZZ: Gazz can you throw more light on this? |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by GAZZUZZ(m): 10:09pm On Jun 09, 2015 |
Piyke: 6years! Don't know the oil change intervals but I can guess, sludge is presently protecting the engine from failure, once you introduce "the original" but a thiner oil that takes car of the sludge problem, then you start having the oil shortages, then the rattling then finally the knock. Iv seen it happen twice. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Macmilla(m): 10:24pm On Jun 09, 2015 |
GAZZUZZ:This actually explains my recent fear. I used 5w-20 for the first time following a filter change. Within a few weeks of mild driving, I have topped up my oil with more than 2L of oil. I was really worried. The car doesn't smoke, though scanning has always revealed low catalyst efficiency. Please, Gazzuzz, what is the way out? Are we stuck with 20w-50? One mech guy suggested changing the rings, what do you think? |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by GAZZUZZ(m): 10:27pm On Jun 09, 2015 |
Macmilla: You are stuck with it until you get a new engine. For now you can go semi synthetic total quarts 7000 sold for 4700 it's 15w50. 2 Likes |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by xcitedjay(m): 11:08pm On Jun 09, 2015 |
Changed my oil to recommended grade in my 2004 Honda Civic and ended up with a knocked engine. Currently using a semi-synthetic oil in the newly installed engine tho. 1 Like |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Macmilla(m): 11:30pm On Jun 09, 2015 |
GAZZUZZ:So even new rings as suggested by the mech won't help? |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by GAZZUZZ(m): 6:42am On Jun 10, 2015 |
Macmilla: Are the rings oem? Don't bother replacing the rings. |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Piyke: 8:06am On Jun 10, 2015 |
GAZZUZZ: Thanks for the explanation. Would you consider 10w-40 semi-synthetic light for this purpose? I believe it would ease the engine's workload a little and improve performance slightly. Castrol brand sells for 4700 as well on Konga |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by GAZZUZZ(m): 9:08am On Jun 10, 2015 |
Piyke: Seems ok |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Macmilla(m): 9:25am On Jun 10, 2015 |
GAZZUZZ:Yeah, I guess they are. They've never been replaced b4. So now we are stuck with the wrong oil, does it mean we should start saving up money for a new engine? Is there no way to revive the engine? Note, the engine does not give issues in any way. One touch start, good response, only smokes if reved up to 5000rpm when stationary (I don't know if that's normal) 1 Like |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by GAZZUZZ(m): 9:55am On Jun 10, 2015 |
Macmilla: Slow death, just save up and replace engine. |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Macmilla(m): 10:02am On Jun 10, 2015 |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Segzie8180: 11:17am On Jun 10, 2015 |
Frankdamaxx: After all been said, they are all correct because 6 years is a long time to use a 20W50. The engine would have been use to the mineral oil but it is possible you change your oil to a 5W20. Just buy an engine flush and you are good to go. The engine flush will clean up your engine completely. |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Segzie8180: 11:25am On Jun 10, 2015 |
xcitedjay: You can still use the recommended engine oil. The mistake you made is that you could have flush the first before changing the oil then. It's because majority of our mechanics don't even know the difference in these engine oil. They could have advised you better to use an engine flush before changing the oil. It works. ... |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Macmilla(m): 3:19pm On Jun 10, 2015 |
Segzie8180:I used a flush b4 the recommended oil but I ended up using extra 2L of oil within a month of very mild driving cos it kept dropping. That is not acceptable to me. |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by FADEO: 10:47pm On Jun 10, 2015 |
I love this eye opening thread. I was about changing engine oil for my 2005 Acura from Mobil XHP-1000 to mobil 1 5w-20. I have been using XHP 1000 for like 3 years now. I think should just continue with the XHP 1000. 2 Likes |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Segzie8180: 12:00pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
Macmilla: Don't worry by the time you will service 2nd or 3rd time it will normalise. The engine will have to adjust itself to the chemical components of the oil and make sure you use a quality filter because most of the filters in the market are not very good. Thanks to the flush it didn't damaged your engine because you have been using the mineral oil for a long time. Synthetic oil is the best because they give your engine optimum performance. 1 Like |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Segzie8180: 12:15pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
FADEO: Don't be scared, 3 years is still better than 6 years. Just buy an engine flush to flush your engine before you use the new oil. It only take 5 to 10 minutes to flush the engine. Try Shield engine flush, it's very good. Synthetic oil is the best 1 Like |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Macmilla(m): 2:50pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
Segzie8180:My boss, Gazzuzz, do you agree with this? |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by IdaraCHODB(m): 4:29pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
Please spend some time reading: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/ Excerpt: More confusion occurs because people think in terms of the oil thinning when it gets hot. They think this thinning with heat is the problem with motor oil. It would be more correct to think that oil thickens when it cools to room temperature and THIS is the problem. In fact this is the problem. It is said that 90 percent of engine wear occurs at startup. If we are interested in engine longevity then we should concentrate our attention at reducing engine wear at startup. 1 Like |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Macmilla(m): 6:07pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
IdaraCHODB:What exactly is your point? 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by GAZZUZZ(m): 6:40pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
Macmilla: NEHI! |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Macmilla(m): 6:48pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
GAZZUZZ:Lol. My boss don turn indian. |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Piyke: 7:07pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
Segzie8180: Segzie8180: Most manufacturers advise against engine flushes (I am sure of Honda) especially in modern vehicles. Except you have a valid sludge case, I wouldn't advice anyone to do an engine flush simply because you want to switch to a lower weight oil. Note that some people have developed problems following flushes. If you do regular highway driving and maintain oil changes as scheduled you shouldn't have sludge. |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by IdaraCHODB(m): 7:19pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
Macmilla: Gazzuzz is right that a change from 20w50 without more can cause more harm than good. But I disagree with the position that it cannot be done. It can be done, but you need to take one or two steps before. I certainly do not agree that you are stuck until you get a new engine. I think the question by the poster is a very relevant one. It is sad that Macmilla is passing through what he is passing through and that xcitedjay lost his engine, but maybe Macmilla should experiment with the steps I suggest and report back to the forum. I tend to agree with Segzie8180, but there are two ways to do the switch, I prefer the second method: 1. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK: Pour in a quality engine oil flush product (provided that your car manufacturer does not say you must not use it on your model), put in the engine oil you want to drain and drive around for say 50 miles or idle the car or 15 to 30 minutes then drain off the oil and throw away the filter OR 2. PREFERRED METHOD: Buy 5 times the 5w20 that you need and 5 separate oil filters, drain the 20w50, pour in the 5w20, drive the car with the new oil for 1000 miles and do an oil and filter change, repeat 4 more times with a new filter each time after clocking another 1000 miles between each oil change (if you are not paranoid) OR reduce the interval to 200 miles and do the oil change 5 times with a new filter each time you have clocked 200 miles (if you are paranoid) and you will not have any issues thereafter. Infact even if you cannot read everything, please read http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-108/ I think it has answers to the questions raised on this thread Quote taken from http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-103/ The synthetic 10W-30 grade oil is based on a heavier 30 grade oil while the mineral based 10W-30 oil is based on a thinner 10 grade oil. They are both similar at operating temperatures yet the 30 grade based synthetic is actually less thick at startup and much less honey – like at low temperatures. This is the opposite of what common sense dictates. Quote taken from http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-104/ Some people have said they use thicker oils because they only use their cars every 2, 3 or 4 weeks. They are afraid that thin oils will fall off the engine parts and result in a lack of lubrication at startup. Think about your lawn mower over the winter. I gets gummed up solid. The oil and fuel thicken over time resulting in engine failure. Anyway, oil on the surface of parts does not lubricate. It is the FLOW of oil between parts that lubricates. Thick, old, waxy oil can only be bad. I truly believe that oil is much better being too thin than too thick. Over the years we have been going to thinner and thinner oils despite hotter engines with turbos and the like. The tendency is that people figure they need a 40 grade oils but then use a 50 instead. Better thinking is that if you think you need a 40, use a 30 grade oil instead. I firmly believe this based on all I know about oils. As it turns out synthetic oils do cling to parts better as they have higher film strength than mineral oils. Synthetics are thinner overall. They have greater slipperiness. Yet they stick better to engine parts. Again, this concept is the opposite of normal thinking. The thickness of moving oil is measured in centiStokes or cS. Most engines want the oil viscosity to be around 10 cS at normal operating temperature. The really thick multi-grade oils have a viscosity of 20 cS at operating temperature. One is not twice as thick as the other, it is only 10 cS thicker. As we increase the heat from 212°F to 302°F the most commonly recommended oil thins from 10 cS to 3 cS. The thicker oil drops from 20 cS to 4 cS. Note that in a very hot engine the difference between the two oils is now only 1 – 2 cS. In other words they have about the same thickness. There is little advantage to a thicker based oil as a 20W-50 at very high temperatures. No, the 4 cS oil is not twice as thick as the 2 or 3 cS oil. This difference is almost insignificant. There is a huge advantage of using the thinner, 10W-30 at startup where 90 percent of the engine wear occurs. At 75°F the thicker oil has a viscosity in the range of 250 cS while the thinner oil has a viscosity of 100 cS. The thicker stuff is 150 cS thicker. This is a very big difference. I am using the 20W-50 as my thicker oil example here. Using an oil that is less thick at startup has other benefits. Let us compare a synthetic 10W-30 to a mineral based 10W-30. Both give you a viscosity of 10 cS at normal engine operating temperatures. They both thin to 3 cS at high temperatures. At 75°F tomorrow morning the story will be different. The startup viscosity of the synthetic will be 50 whereas the mineral based 10W-30 will be 100. Again, both are too thick at startup but the synthetic will cause less startup time period wear and tear. You will get a little better gas mileage too. The synthetic lubricated engine will turn over easier. This has the effect of using less power from your starter motor. It will last longer. Your battery has less of a current draw. This will also last longer. The battery was discharged less during the start so the alternator will rob less power from your engine to recharge. The alternator lasts longer and you get a little better gas economy. The only downside of synthetic lubricants is the cost. They cost 2 or 3 times as much as mineral based oils. Never-the-less I use plain Pennzoil multi-grade mineral based 5W-20 in my Ford Expedition. This oil is thin enough at startup to have many of the attributes I just mentioned. Quote from http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-105/ In an earlier section I said that thicker oils are usually needed in racing situations but not necessarily. Remember that a major function of oil is to cool the inside of your engine. In ASTM D 4485 3.1.4: “Terminology: Engine oil- a liquid that reduces friction and wear between moving parts within an engine, and also serves as a coolant.” Since the oil with a viscosity of 10 cS at 212°F thins to a viscosity of 3 cS at 302°F we will get more flow. The pressure will go down some as well. This is OK as long as we have a minimum of pressure to move the oil. This increased flow will result in increased cooling by the oil. This is a good thing. You would probably want more oil flow in these situations and you get it. The hotter oil thins and this increases flow. The higher flow works harder to separate the engine parts that are under very high stress. It all works out for the better. Higher revving engines need thinner oils. You do not necessarily need to go to a thicker oil while racing. Only experimentation will tell. The best way to figure out what viscosity of oil you need is to drive the car in the conditions you will use. Then use the oil viscosity that gives you 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM under those circumstances. For some reason very few people are able to get this simple principal correct. I cannot explain further. Now let me discuss what people think is a similar situation to racing. That is hot summer traffic jam driving. Your car should be able to handle this. If you have problems then you have a problem with your car, most likely in need of a cooling system overhaul. When you drive that car down the road mid-winter in upstate New York or mid-summer in Florida the engine and oil temperatures will be around 212°F. But your Florida vacation is suddenly altered by a hurricane. You have to get out of Tampa, but so do a million other people. It is now 95°F and you are in a snarl. Everyone thinks they need a thicker oil for this situation. This is false. Your engine is not producing much heat at low RPM and low BHP output. The production of heat is relatively slow. It can easily be transmitted to your cooling system. The problem is that your cooling system has trouble getting rid of the heat. The oil and the coolant will slowly rise in temperature. They both rise together. The increase is no big deal for your oil. It goes to 220°, then 230°F. The problem is that the cooling system can only handle heat up to 230°F. After that you overheat the cooling system and the car must be shut off. The oil never got that hot, It was just that the water got a little hotter than its system design. You now see that overheating in traffic is a cooling system problem and not an oil system problem. Do not change to a thicker oil based on your traffic situation. These same rules apply to engines of any age, loose or tight. Just because your engine is old does not mean it needs a thicker oil. It will need a thicker oil only if it is overly worn, whether new or old. Yet the same principals of 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM still apply. In all cases you need to try different grade oils and see what happens. Then choose the correct viscosity. Quote from http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-107/ The 0W-20 Mobil 1 that is SL rated meets the same criteria as that SL rated 10W-30 synthetic or mineral based Pennzoil. That SJ or in particular that SH oil some people are looking for (from their older automotive owners manual) is no where near as good as any SL oil of today. Always use the most currently available, highest rated motor oil, even in the oldest, most worn engine. You may require a thicker grade but just make sure it is SL or SM rated. Quote from http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-108/ People say that their old car manual says to use a 10W-40 so they would never think of using a 0W-40. Again, both are the same viscosity at normal engine operating temperature. The 0W-40 just does not thicken as much after you turn off your engine. There are now several cases when manuals for older cars have been updated to reflect this. My 550 Ferrari Maranello manual said to use 5W-40 yet the 575 manual says to use the 0W-40. The engines are the same except the 575 has more BHP. It has better acceleration and more top speed. The engines have the same tolerances. All manufacturers I have seen are specifying 0W-XX or 5W-XX oils now. Honda, Ferrari, Ford, Mercedes, Porsche, and others specify a 0 or 5W-XX oil to mention a few. These are appropriate for all engines of all ages of all levels of wear. [i]This second number is the only thing that may change with an older, lose or worn engine. This can only be determined by experimentation. [/i]If you are using XW-50, go to a 0W-40. If your pressures are still too high go to a 0W-30 and so on. Older engines may in fact benefit from thinner oil use. Over time permanent deposits of carbon and sludge build up in the engine oil ways. It is like a clogging of arteries in humans. We are now all on blood thinners. This is an area I specifically studied while a general surgeon resident at Chapel Hill. Thinner oils, and specifically synthetic products are better. Some people say their engines were “designed” to run on mineral based lubricates. I have not seen anything to support this theory. The synthetic of the same viscosity as the mineral oil you are now using will be an improvement. If you go from a mineral to an even thinner synthetic you may be better off still. The pressures go up in many older engines because of this “clogging” of the arteries. Most think this is good but it is really a lessening of flow and therefore accelerates engine wear even further. For those engines with excessive varnish and carbon buildup the engine oil additives of the detergent type may be of benefit. On the other hand you could just use a thin synthetic oil and change it every 200 miles for a while and end up with an even cleaner engine. With everything working properly you may actually need a thicker oil if that engine is overly worn. The thicker oil would be a disaster however, if the arteries were narrowed from deposits. 3 Likes |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Macmilla(m): 7:29pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
GAZZUZZ:I think this is a better option for me, the lighter the better, right? Cos I'm imagining oil as thick as 20w-50 passing through tiny holes in a filter meant for oil as light as 5w-20. It's definitely not gonna be easy on the oil pump. Boss Gazzuzz, approved? |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by Macmilla(m): 7:54pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
So much information. One established fact is this, "The thinner, the better". This fact has been proven beyond reasonable doubt. The question is how thin can one go, when coming from very long use of thick oil? 10w-40? Or right down to 5w-20? |
| Re: After Using Total 20w50 For 6 Years, Is There Any Effect If I Want To Change To by IdaraCHODB(m): 8:00pm On Jun 11, 2015 |
Macmilla: Buy 5 times the 5w20 that you need and 5 separate oil filters, drain the 20w50, pour in the 5w20, drive the car with the new oil for 1000 miles and do an oil and filter change, repeat 4 more times with a new filter each time after clocking another 1000 miles between each oil change (if you are not paranoid) OR reduce the interval to 200 miles and do the oil change 5 times with a new filter each time you have clocked 200 miles (if you are paranoid) and you will not have any issues thereafter. See the very last paragraph of my post above, please read it slowly and very carefully! If I were the one doing the change, I would do the 200 miles option, and do the 200 miles every day for 5 days, and at the last oil change, I would revert to the factory recommended Oil Change Interval! Unless it can be proved that you have a worn engine, in which case you may have to do 5w30 or 5w40 |
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