Senator Mohammed Ali Ndume (APC, Borno) contested for the position of Deputy Senate President in last week’s National Assembly election. He belonged to the Like Minds group, which produced Senate President Bukola Saraki, against the candidate adopted by the All Progressives Congress (APC). In this interview, he gave a blow-by-blow account of the sources of confusion in the party, and how the issues are being resolved.

What’s the genesis of the division in the APC over National Assembly leadership?
The division was caused by the party’s indecision on how we were to nominate those who would stand for the leadership position in the National Assembly. After the elections and before the inauguration, normally the political horse-trading began immediately. The party should have, even before the elections, zoned the positions so that everybody would know where each position is zoned to, in order to reduce the number of contenders for those positions. When we came the party’s National Working Committee formed a small committee on the issue of zoning.
The small committee made a report, recommending that the Senate President would be zoned to North Central and the Deputy Senate President zoned to North-East. Then the position of Speaker was zoned to South-West. When that committee presented its report to the caucus of leaders, they now referred the NWC back to expand the committee to nine members to look at it. We were following that.
When we began to form groups, the Like Minds decided to form a group, waiting for the zoning from the party. We invited many elected senators, as many as possible, including Senator George Akume. However, eventually, the group ended up with 36 of us from the APC and some members of the PDP. The Like Minds cut across parties. As at the last count, we had 31 PDP and 36 in APC. That was why we were counting 67 to 70 members on our side. The fundamental principle behind the formation of Like Minds was to forestall leadership rancour, should the leadership of the NASS be imposed by outsiders or godfathers. We felt that if we, the senators, came together and elected our own Senate President, he would be accountable to members of the Senate. But if anyone from outside the Senate has a hand in his emergence, such Senate President would be serving two masters, by trying to satisfy those who sponsored him from the outside. Nevertheless, we looked up to the party for direction on the zoning. We kept waiting, but the party was not forthcoming.
We asked the NWC again, and we learnt that the party’s position had not changed. The committee of 9 came up with the same position as the NWC. That was why myself, Goje and Binta from the North-East decided to withdraw our candidature as Senate President.
If we go constitutionally, the only body that can change the position of NWC is NEC, but the party didn’t call for a NEC meeting to reverse the decision of the NWC. The only thing was that the NWC didn’t come out publicly to say this is the zoning, but they told us in confidence. Therefore, as Saraki was the only candidate from our group that indicated interest in the Senate Presidency, we had to give him all our support. We even made a caveat, saying, if the party, for whatever reason, decided to revert its position and zoned the Senate President to North-East, then our members from North-East would sit down and come out with one person.
Now, let me tell you why we had the break with Lawan. As we were doing this, the North-Central came out with this idea that the president preferred a candidate from the North-East, and that Buhari’s choice for Senate President was Senator Ahmed Lawan. This was the genesis of the crisis. Based of the above speculation, members of the Senate from the North-West went a step forward to endorse Lawan.
We’re not saying he was not qualified, but we said that naturally, if that position is zoned to the North-East, it is the North-East senators who should nominate who should stand for that election. We have 13 APC senators from the North-East who are eminently qualified to be Senate President. Not only that, it was the North-Central that started going to the press to announce that they had endorsed Lawan. We, from the North-East, also reacted by disassociating ourselves from the endorsement, saying we were waiting for the party to announce the zoning, asking the APC to zone Senate Presidency to North-East. Then, Lawan went on campaigning. To worsen the situation, one of the national leaders of the party said the issue of zoning had been abandoned, that they could not compromise merit for zoning. Again, the governors came into the issue. They were divided. Some supported Lawan and others supported Saraki.

Did you believe the speculation that the president wanted Lawan as Senate President?
No, we didn’t believe him. The president even came out with a statement that he was not supporting any candidate and was willing to work with anyone . As a leader, President Buhari played the role of a national leader and maintained a dignified silence, pledging to work with anyone who emerged. He emphasised the fact that the NASS had its rules and procedures for electing its leaders. I know Buhari.
The problem came from those who are close to the president. They tried to take advantage of his silence on some issues to cause problems. They kept on dropping his name here and there. Again, Buhari came out to say he had no preferential candidate. For instance, I was a contender, and I don’t believe that Buhari has a case against me. Then, those close to the president came up with this story, that the president didn’t want any candidate who had corruption case or who is linked with terrorism. We were surprised, and asked was the party saying, after we had won elections, that APC senators consists of criminals, hence they would examine the criminals to determine who would lead the National Assembly. It was a very dangerous signal, calling your own people criminals. In this country, at one point there was no governor that had EFCC cases. For instance, during Obasanjo era, out of 36 governors, some 29 were accused of corruption. This debate was raging in the media. In my own case, I don’t have a corruption case, so they said I had a case in court for alleged sponsorship of Boko Haram. But the constitution is very clear on court issues: nobody should be victimized until he’s found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a court of law. You can’t take anyone to court on a frivolous case. If the persons is not convicted, then the person is free. When the issue of corruption and terrorism didn’t work, they said the president is insisting that the most experienced senators or House of Representatives member should be the ones qualified to run for NASS leadership. So, if it’s experience, we should have given it the Senator David Mark. Let me tell you, the Number One criterion for electing one into leadership of NASS is acceptability. One you’re acceptable and popular among your colleagues, that’s it. This is the advantage that Saraki had and won.

You’re from the North-East. Why didn’t support Saraki from the North-Central?
We had this agreement among ourselves that if the Senate Presidency was zoned to the North-East, we would meet and decide who should run and we would have given him all the support. We had 31 PDP senators who aligned with Like Minds group. Then, the PDP, as a party, said all the members of PDP should support Saraki and kept silent on the issue of Deputy Senate President. They knew we were sharply divided, arguing over our numbers. The PDP now cashed in, coupled with the fact that we left our flank open because we didn’t name our group’s Deputy Senate President. So, they told Saraki that the PDP would go in for Deputy Senate President.

What did you do at this point?
I didn’t agree with them. I decided to drop my Senate President ambition because I felt the party had zoned it to the North-Central. I was not ready to surrender my ambition to be Deputy Senate President to the PDP. I went into the election, knowing fully that if I were going to depend on the votes of our group, I would not win because the PDP had more numbers. I was banking on the support of the other group, many of whom were and would have supported me. Therefore, I wouldn’t have been defeated by the PDP candidate. Be it as it may, it was the will of God. God destined that Ekweremadu would win, and I’ve accepted that.

Were you not betrayed by Saraki?
No, I don’t see it that way. Saraki won, that’s his luck. I lost, that’s the will of God. There’s no bitterness in me about the election. The PDP attempted to repeat the strategy in the House of Representatives, but when they discovered that it would not work, they withdrew their candidates. They allowed the APC to fight among themselves.
But I’m glad that the outcry of the North-East was been solved with the election of Yakubu Dogara as Speaker. We (the North-East) were agitating for a presiding officer’s position in the National Assembly. We didn’t get the Senate President but we got the Speaker.
The emergence of Dogara has killed the birds with one stone. First, he’s a Christian. That means the Northern Christian will have a sense of belonging. Secondly, he’s a minority. The northern minorities will have a sense of belonging. Thirdly, he’s from North-East. This region that has been marginalised has now got the Speaker of the House of Representatives. We’re grateful to God for that. If you look at Saraki, you realise that the Yoruba in the North will have a sense of belonging. The North-Central that didn’t have any position now has the Senate Presidency.

The APC conducted a mock primary election. At what point did you back out?
We backed out when we discovered that there was lack of sincerity in it.

What do you mean by the lack of sincerity?
At one point, senators were being arm-twisted, harassed and induced by some individuals outside who were bent on making sure that the other group won. That’s why we insisted on secret ballot. Some of our members said if the election was secret they would vote for us. An open ballot election would have created a permanent division in the senate.
What role did APC governors play in the whole saga?
The governors were divided. The governors were on either sides armtwisting our members. My governor, for example, was not involved in it all. He told me, “you’re a senator, I will not decide for you.” Some governors were drafted in because they saw that we were on the winning side. My own governor said it was unfair to tell his senator who to vote for. That’s why we insisted that we should go to the floor of the NASS to decide, after all, in spite of the mock election, it was the 109 of us that would decide who should lead us.

Your group disobeyed the party. Why?
We didn’t disobey the party. We didn’t participate in the mock election and decided to go for the election in the Senate. So on the morning on Tuesday, June 9, the party sent out text messages to senators for a meeting at the International Conference Centre. They wanted the president to meet with us because he returned from his trip that morning. But I didn’t receive the text message. Many didn’t receive the text. I went to the National Assembly very early because I knew how congested it could be on the day of swearing in. I was surprised that up till 10.00am some APC senators hadn’t come.
There was misinformation that the inauguration had been postponed. The Senate rule was 10 am for the proclamation. The president sent the proclamation to the Clerk. The time was fixed one week before June 9. There was nothing contrary to that before the clerk.
The Clerk had a roll call. Fifty-seven senators were present, there was nothing that said the clerk should be stopped from conducting the election, because a quorum had been formed.
If our group didn’t go and only the PDP senators were present, a valid election would have held with 48 members. The positions contestible were just two. They would have gone on with the election and there was nothing we could have done until we impeach the two. Because we don’t have two-third of the members of the Senate, an impeachment would have posed a different problem. To impeach, we need 76 members to vote for it.

What are the implications of electing a PDP senator as Deputy Senate President?
I tell you the truth, if I were in the PDP I wouldn’t have contested. I think they demonstrated a level of desperation. The PDP had played their role as a ruling party all this while. I was in the opposition all this while and I was comfortable with it. Opposition is good because if anything is going wrong I had the liberty to criticise it. When things are going well, you have the liberty to say it’s your criticism that has made it work. But for you to be a Deputy Senate President in a government that you’re a minority sounds very odd to me. In the American system, it doesn’t happen like that. Where they have one member edge, the one with the edge will form the majority. The issue of one who belongs to the minority takes Number Two position doesn’t happen.

Is it true that the PDP threatened to combine forces with the Lawan group to impeach Saraki if the PDP was not given the DSP slot?
That’s not true. What happened was that they cashed in on the division in the APC. They could have done the same thing with the Lawan group, except that Akume was already declared as the other group’s DSP candidate. We left our flank open because Saraki didn’t name me as the group’s DSP candidate. So there was that opening and they decided to exploit it.
In reality, North-East was given the slot for DSP, so when the PDP came up with the proposal to cede the DSP to them I refused. The arrangement to endorse Saraki was PDP’s, not that of the Like Minds.
The PDP endorsed Saraki and communicated to its members, and added that for DSP, they should vote for Ekeweremadu. Also, for Deputy Speaker of the House, the PDP asked its members to vote for Leo Ogor. But that of the House was overcome because the members of the House of Reps, having heard that elections were going on in the NASS, rushed in and decided to stand by their own candidates. Leo withdrew because he knew that if he had gone into the election he wouldn’t have won. But in my own case, the number of PDP senators present were more than the number of APC senators. If we had two days before the election, it would have been easy. I would have lobbied. In spite of it all, I got my votes. My members of the Like Minds group stood by me; we refused to vote for their candidate.

There was a threat by the party to sanction those of you who belong to the Like Minds?
No. The party is not going to sanction us because we didn’t do anything outside the constitution of the party. There’s nowhere in the party constitution that says when the party gives a directive we must obey it, else we’ll be sanctioned. The party cannot decide how we vote on motions. It is my constituents that can tell me how to vote. This is because the party can’t go to my constituency and compel them to vote for me at the polls.
But what if the party says you did anti-party activities?
I didn’t do any antiparty activities. I left PDP to come to APC when the PDP was a threat. We risked all that and left to join APC. Of course members of the PDP who are senators are not my enemies. Is the party saying we can’t cooperate with the PDP to do our jobs? For instance, every amendment to our constitution would require two-thirds support of the senators. This new government would need to do one or two fundamental changes that are necessary in the constitution. If we don’t get the cooperation of PDP senators, it means we can’t amend the constitution in the next four years. The PDP senators are not our enemies, so we should be prepared to cooperate. As the president said, since we didn’t violate the constitution, why should we face sanctions?

What sort of discussion are you having with the party?
The party is trying to reconcile the groups. We’re not small boys. There’s no senator that is below 40 years of age, so the party knows it’s not dealing with children. Imposing a sanction is not the right thing to do. The party is doing the right thing because they’re calling us back home to settle the issues. That’s why we are taking two weeks break to ensure reconciliation. We’re now talking among ourselves and now we make joke about the whole saga. Like a friend of mine, Senator Bala Na’allah would call me and describe me as ‘dan inska. You’re causing problems in the Senate’ and we’ll all laugh.

What lesson should the APC learn from what has happened?
The lesson is that it is better to take the wrong decision than not to take a decision at all. In taking whatever decision, it has to be timely. Our election was conducted on March 28. The party should have, all this while, said the Senate President would come from a particular zone and the Deputy Senate President from the other place. The contest would have been narrowed down to that zone. The party didn’t do that because some individuals had a particular interest. Even if they had a certain interest, they should have come out to campaign for it, not to force senators to take a certain decision. The party dragged the issue until June. That was bad. People had taken positions. I had taken a decision with the Like Minds group, and suddenly the party tells me to go out of that group to support another candidate who knew I had taken a position, it would put us in a difficult position. In the history of the NASS we have noticed that any imposed candidate does not last.
What comforts us, however, is that the president has played a fatherly role by saying he’s ready to work with whoever is chosen by NASS members as their leaders. We’re proud of his roles.
One of the things I would add is that the privileges of the Senate President should be reduced. Once one is a Senate President he becomes different from others; he’s seen as Number Three in the country; he would be moving with sirens, and senators would have to raise their hands to make a point and if you, the Senate President, don’t like him you over rule him. The powers of the presiding officer should be reduced; he should be one among equal; our privileges should be the same. The only thing is that you should be given a house and cars, else the standing order should be reviewed. The Accounting Officer should be the Clerk of the National Assembly. If you do that you will be making the position unattractive. Only those willing to work will present themselves for the position. What we have now is senators president, and I want the current senators to address this issue. If I had won the election, I would have insisted on the necessary amendments to reduce the privileges of the principal offices.

source: www.dailytrust.com.ng/sunday/index.php/top-stories/21005-apc-s-indecision-nearly-cost-us-senate-presidency-ndume

Ndume, you're on your own.

Booking S

Ok...did he say nearly??

Nearly? Really?

This is good coming from one of theirs. We pray for a better Nigeria.


https://www.nairaland.com/2374160/mtn-data-plan-1gb-n1100#34749418

this terrorist has the nerve to open his dirty mouth .

Nearly does not kill a bird ...


Meddling in the legislative affairs by the leadership of APC brought about dis-unity in the ranks .

APC is still getting used to the art of playing politics.

Hmmm. This shows how useless and unprepared APC as a party is. They just gathered to grab power and when it came to them on a platter of gold, they became confused on what to do with it

APC wants power, they have it, and somehow they are confused with it

Politicians and selfish interest......

I love his analysis however, I applaud the part he mentioned being accused of links with Boko Haram. Shows he knows he's still a suspect.
Moreover, advising PDPs not to cash on thee opportunity wasn't sincere. If he were the one, he would have so, stop lying. Let's move on.
God bless Nigeria

He says the the APC NWC are not talking of sanctioning anyone .In his word 'the party knows it is not dealing with small boys'

Chai saraki scammed ndume big time, He is a well known unrepentant traitor. Lest we forget he betrayed his own biological father.

God bless Ndume for giving an insider's perspective which sounds logical.

Ndume is a very smart politician! That interview is a good lesson in statesmanship. Even if he was still raging at being left in the lurch, his self control is exemplary.