absoluteSuccess:


There would be no conquest if the account never tally. There must be a reason a place was conquered, if that is not established, we look at founding.

How would the possibility of Edo being part of the founding fathers of Lagos hurt the history of Bini? The name of the first king of Lagos is Oba Ado, he was the son of Ashipa.

And Ashipa is a Yoruba name common in Oyo and etc. I am not saying Iduwina and Iduekae mean all those things of course but just pointing out to him how such words are constructed and there is no doubt those quarters were named by Yorubas of old Benin during the empire times. I only respond with insult to insults and only an idiot will insult somebody without expecting a backlash. I am only pointing out that the empire was Yoruba and language was Yoruba and it was the language spoken in the city which was over 50k in population back then. They named Ogutun Agenebode and etc and their nobles have titles that are Yoruba language peculiar to Benin Yoruba. Ijesa titles are not Oyo titles and Ijebu titles are also distinct, so if Benin titles are distinct does not mean it is not Yoruba language. You find such titles only in Yoruba land and not in Edoid groups east of Benin. I don't know why the young man thinks history is insult. The fact is all Benin neighbors have history of defeating Benin in battle and if you think your state was never defeated, it means you feel insecure and have an ego problem. The last state to take tribute from Benin city was Ibadan and it was Ogedengve of Ijesa acting on behalf of Ibadan before the civil war broke out but some Benin will claim it was Britain that ended the Benin empire!. Is that not an ego problem by those young Benins?. They ended Benin by invasion but left Egba until 1914?. Even Ilorin that had a real confrontation with Britain after the Kiriji war and signed an agreement still with them don't go about saying it was only Britain that stopped Ilorin when they know they were tributary to Ibadan. Why is Ijesa not saying Ijesa was only conquered when Ogedengbe was arrested by Captain Bower?.What should Ijebu say that the Ibadan had to ally with Britain before they were forcefully opened up for trade? And that is the only reason Ijebu land is balkanized into Lagos and Ogun and Ijebu ode is not a capital city. If any entity in Nigeria is to say they lost opportunity to colonisation, it would be Ibadan but how many times have you heard them do that?. Nobody is saying Benin was not successful but in the nineteenth century when Britain, France and Germany were the relevant European powers in West Africa, Benin was no longer in existence as a power. It was the Portuguese that knew them. Ijesa, Ijebu, Egba Dahomey, etc were far more organized and successful in the nineteenth century not to talk of Oyo and Benin had reverted to an Edo state that it was originally as a result of the original landowners reentering the city in large numbers. I see no reason to accept the Benin narrative being peddled because history is an academic discipline and should contain only facts as much as possible. I can not accept something manifestly false while still alive. It is a fact that the British monarchy is of French Viking origin and that is why the English language is very French sounding and I believe that if the monarchy had led the British empire instead of British corporations then it is French that would have been the language of the British empire. It would be a Romance empire with something like English as well as many Celtic languages spoken in the British isles. Nobody debates heatedly in Britain that French was not the language of the court. Anywhere I see pedestrian conclusionsI I do my best to bring illumination and most people bow to superior arguments without resorting to insults like the fellow above, I discovered that Yoruba language is nothing more than a mixture of Kemitic Egyptian, Igboid, Edoid and a significant spicing from Nupoid and etc that has taken up a life of its own and that is an academic fact which only fools will deny but some Yorubas still argue just like the fellow above. I don't debate like that but I respond to insults If they bring proof of.Edo being the language of the Benin empire I will reverse my position immediately I am not a pedestrian academic. I have been published in several journals more varied than any scholar on Earth from chemical engineering to history to genetics to International economics to poetry to politics, social sciences and theology

lawani:


And Ashipa is a Yoruba name common in Oyo and etc. I am not saying Iduwina and Iduekae mean all those things of course but just pointing out to him how such words are constructed and there is no doubt those quarters were named by Yorubas of old Benin during the empire times. I only respond with insult to insults and only an idiot will insult somebody without expecting a backlash. I am only pointing out that the empire was Yoruba and language was Yoruba and it was the language spoken in the city which was over 50k in population back then. They named Ogutun Agenebode and etc and their nobles have titles that are Yoruba language peculiar to Benin Yoruba. Ijesa titles are not Oyo titles and Ijebu titles are also distinct, so if Benin titles are distinct does not mean it is not Yoruba language. You find such titles only in Yoruba land and not in Edoid groups east of Benin. I don't know why the young man thinks history is insult. The fact is all Benin neighbors have history of defeating Benin in battle and if you think your state was never defeated, it means you feel insecure and have an ego problem. The last state to take tribute from Benin city was Ibadan and it was Ogedengve of Ijesa acting on behalf of Ibadan before the civil war broke out but some Benin will claim it was Britain that ended the Benin empire!. Is that not an ego problem by those young Benins?. They ended Benin by invasion but left Egba until 1914?. Even Ilorin that had a real confrontation with Britain after the Kiriji war and signed an agreement still with them don't go about saying it was only Britain that stopped Ilorin when they know they were tributary to Ibadan. Why is Ijesa not saying Ijesa was only conquered when Ogedengbe was arrested by Captain Bower?.What should Ijebu say that the Ibadan had to ally with Britain before they were forcefully opened up for trade? And that is the only reason Ijebu land is balkanized into Lagos and Ogun and Ijebu ode is not a capital city. If any entity in Nigeria is to say they lost opportunity to colonisation, it would be Ibadan but how many times have you heard them do that?. Nobody is saying Benin was not successful but in the nineteenth century when Britain, France and Germany were the relevant European powers in West Africa, Benin was no longer in existence as a power. It was the Portuguese that knew them. Ijesa, Ijebu, Egba Dahomey, etc were far more organized and successful in the nineteenth century not to talk of Oyo and Benin had reverted to an Edo state that it was originally as a result of the original landowners reentering the city in large numbers. I see no reason to accept the Benin narrative being peddled because history is an academic discipline and should contain only facts as much as possible. I can not accept something manifestly false while still alive. It is a fact that the British monarchy is of French Viking origin and that is why the English language is very French sounding and I believe that if the monarchy had led the British empire instead of British corporations then it is French that would have been the language of the British empire. It would be a Romance empire with something like English as well as many Celtic languages spoken in the British isles. Nobody debates heatedly in Britain that French was not the language of the court. Anywhere I see pedestrian conclusionsI I do my best to bring illumination and most people bow to superior arguments without resorting to insults like the fellow above, I discovered that Yoruba language is nothing more than a mixture of Kemitic Egyptian, Igboid, Edoid and a significant spicing from Nupoid and etc that has taken up a life of its own and that is an academic fact which only fools will deny but some Yorubas still argue just like the fellow above. I don't debate like that but I respond to insults If they bring proof of.Edo being the language of the Benin empire I will reverse my position immediately I am not a pedestrian academic. I have been published in several journals more varied than any scholar on heart from chemical engineering to history to genetics to International economics to poetry to politics, social sciences and theology

my brother you are a worthless soul, you will never amount to anything good, i curse you this day, you are damned And you will forever be damned.

Idun as a naming pattern is not known among Yorubas, it is not a Yoruba thing , Yoruba cannot give what they don’t have, that’s why that Yoruba professor sought for an external source for the word Idun. It is only a figment of your imagination. You can hope all you want, it is not reality


You have been given several proofs here of the vestiges and relic of the Benin empire which buttresses the fact that the Edo language was the language of the empire but you shown yourself a worthless swine.

Edo naming pattern across Edo central, Edo north, and Edo south all use Idun as a naming pattern in a settlement

Just as cowardly as you are so Ogendegbe was in the 19th century. Ogendegbe never got an inch close to any Bini or Esan land Ogendegbe restricted his foolishness to the extreme northern part of Edo state to the extreme northern part of Edo state , which is farther from Benin than the distance of Akure to Ife.

Show me any material where it was said that Ogendegbe got to Benin city And i would give you ten thousand naira card.

There was no ashipa anywhere, he was directly the son of oba orhogbua

There was no city which was over 50,000 back then before colonialism. Benin city just as at 1952 was 54,000. Look for your city elsewhere, there was no Yoruba language in Benin city


The only thing manifestly false here is your brain which is already tumorfilled

AKPAMA211:
this is what you initially ask me bro I find that question absurd. This is was your initial question to me below and sincerely i find it absurd, i used Uromi~Benin war to buttress an example that that question was unnecessary because Africans never wrote history and the eyewitness accounts we have did not really document in details but in summary. I further opined that the person Oba Esigie, the Attah at the time isn’t known in history,. So what are you on about?

”for instance , how many people, king or chief were killed at the conquest of Lagos, what is the traditional
Bini version of this invasion and what impasse or crisis precede the conquest?“

Oba Orhogbua wanted to be in charge of the Lagos sea, and he also wanted to extend his frontiers to Dahomey that’s all

I want you to see clearly that what you are complaining of with lawani is what you are doing against the Awori.

The people who were original owners of their lands were "inconsequential" in their history as long as one or more people claimed they were "conquered", so it's "territorialism" going on.

I am Awori, and a direct descendants of Oba Ado. We hold Bini in high esteem as Awori because they are kinsfolks, but the history of betrayal claimed we are a conquered people.

There's no conquest if it can't be proven.

absoluteSuccess:


I want you to see clearly that what you are complaining of with lawani is what you are doing against the Awori.

The people who were original owners of their lands were "inconsequential" in their history as long as one or more people claimed they were "conquered", so it's "territorialism" going on.

I am Awori, and a direct descendants of Oba Ado. We hold Bini in high esteem as Awori because they are kinsfolks, but the history of betrayal claimed we are a conquered people.

There's no conquest if it can't be proven.

If history accounts for it as conquest, then it certainly is, history is therefore not emotion bound. We certainly have historical accounts that support invasion and conquests, even the Yoruba historian cited above termed it an invasion and conquest. Ayodeji Olukoju is not a Bini man. He is from Oka Akoko and your tribal person.

I am not making things up, unlike your brother who might be told something this minute and the next minute he uses it to quickly form an angle in history that’s totally missing In historical discuss.

Bear in mind i am not on the same wavelength with your brother.

I don’t think there is a need for a back and forth. I am not responding to you Anymore

lawani:


And Ashipa is a Yoruba name common in Oyo and etc. I am not saying Iduwina and Iduekae mean all those things of course but just pointing out to him how such words are constructed and there is no doubt those quarters were named by Yorubas of old Benin during the empire times. I only respond with insult to insults and only an idiot will insult somebody without expecting a backlash. I am only pointing out that the empire was Yoruba and language was Yoruba and it was the language spoken in the city which was over 50k in population back then. They named Ogutun Agenebode and etc and their nobles have titles that are Yoruba language peculiar to Benin Yoruba. Ijesa titles are not Oyo titles and Ijebu titles are also distinct, so if Benin titles are distinct does not mean it is not Yoruba language. You find such titles only in Yoruba land and not in Edoid groups east of Benin. I don't know why the young man thinks history is insult. The fact is all Benin neighbors have history of defeating Benin in battle and if you think your state was never defeated, it means you feel insecure and have an ego problem. The last state to take tribute from Benin city was Ibadan and it was Ogedengve of Ijesa acting on behalf of Ibadan before the civil war broke out but some Benin will claim it was Britain that ended the Benin empire!. Is that not an ego problem by those young Benins?. They ended Benin by invasion but left Egba until 1914?. Even Ilorin that had a real confrontation with Britain after the Kiriji war and signed an agreement still with them don't go about saying it was only Britain that stopped Ilorin when they know they were tributary to Ibadan. Why is Ijesa not saying Ijesa was only conquered when Ogedengbe was arrested by Captain Bower?.What should Ijebu say that the Ibadan had to ally with Britain before they were forcefully opened up for trade? And that is the only reason Ijebu land is balkanized into Lagos and Ogun and Ijebu ode is not a capital city. If any entity in Nigeria is to say they lost opportunity to colonisation, it would be Ibadan but how many times have you heard them do that?. Nobody is saying Benin was not successful but in the nineteenth century when Britain, France and Germany were the relevant European powers in West Africa, Benin was no longer in existence as a power. It was the Portuguese that knew them. Ijesa, Ijebu, Egba Dahomey, etc were far more organized and successful in the nineteenth century not to talk of Oyo and Benin had reverted to an Edo state that it was originally as a result of the original landowners reentering the city in large numbers. I see no reason to accept the Benin narrative being peddled because history is an academic discipline and should contain only facts as much as possible. I can not accept something manifestly false while still alive. It is a fact that the British monarchy is of French Viking origin and that is why the English language is very French sounding and I believe that if the monarchy had led the British empire instead of British corporations then it is French that would have been the language of the British empire. It would be a Romance empire with something like English as well as many Celtic languages spoken in the British isles. Nobody debates heatedly in Britain that French was not the language of the court. Anywhere I see pedestrian conclusionsI I do my best to bring illumination and most people bow to superior arguments without resorting to insults like the fellow above, I discovered that Yoruba language is nothing more than a mixture of Kemitic Egyptian, Igboid, Edoid and a significant spicing from Nupoid and etc that has taken up a life of its own and that is an academic fact which only fools will deny but some Yorubas still argue just like the fellow above. I don't debate like that but I respond to insults If they bring proof of.Edo being the language of the Benin empire I will reverse my position immediately I am not a pedestrian academic. I have been published in several journals more varied than any scholar on Earth from chemical engineering to history to genetics to International economics to poetry to politics, social sciences and theology

Hmm, the Portuguese will never dare go to Ijebu, it would be the end of their forays into the West coast, hence they missed this annotations to being "the origin of the human race" by the all knowing Portuguese who knows about us from the beginning to the end. They will only hear about the Ijebu faintly.

absoluteSuccess:


I want you to see clearly that what you are complaining of with lawani is what you are doing against the Awori.

The people who were original owners of their lands were "inconsequential" in their history as long as one or more people claimed they were "conquered", so it's "territorialism" going on.

I am Awori, and a direct descendants of Oba Ado. We hold Bini in high esteem as Awori because they are kinsfolks, but the history of betrayal claimed we are a conquered people.

There's no conquest if it can't be proven.

You misquote me. I never said Benin were conquered. No Yoruba has ever said that. What I say is that the Benin empire was a Yoruba empire with Yoruba capital and more Yoruba speaking people than any other group. I never and will never say Benin were conquered by Yoruba. It is the fellow above who is obsessed about his ancestors rough handling other people. What I addressed with some of my published works is to point out why Benin empire was Yoruba and why Oduduwa did not come from Ogiso kingdom but was infact a descendant of Nimrod who was King of Sumeria five thousand years ago and he was probably an Egyptian aristocrat. Nothing more than that. You can not do academics with overwhelming emotions

AKPAMA211:


If history accounts for it as conquest, then it certainly is, history is therefore not emotion bound. We certainly have historical accounts that support invasion and conquests, even the Yoruba historian cited above termed it an invasion. Ayodeji Olukoju is not a Bini man. He is from Oka Akoko and your tribal person.

I am not making things up, unlike your brother who might be told something this minute and the next minute he uses it to quickly form an angle in history that’s totally missing In historical discuss.

Bear in mind i am not on the same wavelength with your brother.

I don’t think there is a need for a back and forth. I am not responding to you Anymore

my brother leave these people, they are not ready to learn, history is not based on emotions

absoluteSuccess:


Hmm, the Portuguese will never dare go to Ijebu, it would be the end of their forays into the West coast, hence they missed this annotations to being "the origin of the human race" by the all knowing Portuguese who knows about us from the beginning to the end. They will only hear about the Ijebu faintly.

Any non Ijebu you see in an Ijebu market would be a slave. They shut out not only Europeans but also other Yorubas. It was why Ibadan joined forces with Britain to invade them. They were shown in ancient maps as Gebu and it would be expected they controlled most of Lagos and Ogun before the Egba became a force to be reckoned with. Egba were originally Oyo as Lisabi was an Oyo aristocrat but I believe the bulk of them later came from the surrounding peoples.

Then Ijebu do not say they are the origin of the world. What they say is that the Awujale dynasty came directly from Ife Woodaye or Wadai in CAR and not from Ife Ooyelagbo that was established after the fall of Wadai

lawani:


You misquote me. I never said Benin were conquered. No Yoruba has ever said that. What I say is that the Benin empire was a Yoruba empire with Yoruba capital and more Yoruba speaking people than any other group. I never and will never say Benin were conquered by Yoruba. It is the fellow above who is obsessed about his ancestors rough handling other people. What I addressed with some of my published works is to point out why Benin empire was Yoruba and why Oduduwa did not come from Ogiso kingdom but was infact a descendant of Nimrod who was King of Sumeria five thousand years ago and he was probably an Egyptian aristocrat. Nothing more than that. You can not do academics with overwhelming emotions

dull fool, we said Aworis were conquered, but we are not banking on that alone.history said so, there is a difference, if you went to school you would know, we are simply quoting from them, a Yoruba historian has been cited above, since i started reading from you, it’s just figment of your imagination, no reference materials, no citation’s nothing. And your ignorance is so alarming for a grown up

There was never a time Benin empire was a Yoruba empire, you don’t even have a tissue paper to back up your claim, you have been given countless evidence contrary to what you opine, you are still holding on to your point of view amidst excessive ignorance

Why would they have gone to invite someone they don’t know, that should be your question.

The Oduduwa tale is a myth. It is not in tandem with reality

lawani:


Any non Ijebu you see in an Ijebu market would be a slave. They shut out not only Europeans but also other Yorubas. It was why Ibadan joined forces with Britain to invade them. They were shown in ancient maps as Gebu and it would be expected they controlled most of Lagos and Ogun before the Egba became a force to be reckoned with. Egba were originally Oyo as Lisabi was an Oyo aristocrat but I believe the bulk of them later came from the surrounding peoples.

Then Ijebu do not say they are the origin of the world. What they say is that the Awujale dynasty came directly from Ife Woodaye or Wadai in CAR and not from Ife Ooyelagbo that was established after the fall of Wadai

Yes that's the truth. The Ijebu have a reason to lock up against outsiders, the history of the lost of their original home must have been responsible for this.

Pa. Alayande, emeritus Prof described this era in Ijebu history as "era of splendid isolation."

Not only that, Isale Ijebu was part of the wellspring of the ancient Ibadan, the Ijebu had a confrontation with the ancient Ibadan, hence the Ijebu decided to mind her business.

The Ijebu were one of the greatest people of the Yoruba folks. When we say we are omo Lua bi, we are identifying with our Ijebu roots as Yoruba, being the offspring of the king of righteousness.

absoluteSuccess:


Yes that's the truth. The Ijebu have a reason to lock up against outsiders, the history of the lost of their original home must have been responsible for this.

Pa. Alayande, emeritus Prof described this era in Ijebu history as "era of splendid isolation."

Not only that, Isale Ijebu was part of the wellspring of the ancient Ibadan, the Ijebu had a confrontation with the ancient Ibadan, hence the Ijebu decided to mind her business.

The Ijebu were one of the greatest people of the Yoruba folks. When we say we are omo Lua bi, we are identifying with our Ijebu roots as Yoruba, being the offspring of the king of righteousness.

But it was a wrong decision for Ijebu, Ijesa etc to be fighting Ibadan. It was myopic kind of. Their position was Ibadan wants to rule the whole world and they are obliged to nip the ambition in the bud!. Is that enough reason to fight against a proper nation in a world where China, India, US, Brazil and etc exists? But they were too attached to their primordial sentiments which was nothing more than stunted nationalism apologies to VP Atiku Abubakar. Ijebu would not be dissuaded even when an Ijebu became the Olubadan. Even a white man could become the Olubadan. So all those who fought Ibadan had no viable reason with which their actions could be justified because their monarchies and national identities were left undisturbed and all they were required to do was pay taxes up and if you settle in Ibadan you can become the head of the city. You can even be Magaji and relocate to your own regional capital etc etc. If not for them, maybe Ibadan today would be the capital of a major world power.
Omoluwabi means Omo olu iwa bi. It means a child born by the Prince of Iwa or the Lord of iwa. It means Oduduwa since Oduduwa is somebody who performed the Ofun meji sacrifice of Ogbaragada which means the person can never ever be faulted. Olu IWA is the same as Oduduwa. Olodumare is also Olu iwa or Oduduwa. The first Olofin is also Oduduwa. I guess that is the Ijebu story. If you therefore say Omo Olofin. It still means Omo Oduduwa because Oduduwa was the first Olofin Aye