ArodewilliamsT:


You monkey, why don't you type buhari' certificate on google and click 'images'. In short, i'll do it for your lazy asze. Now click the link below. Doesn't that man in that passport look older than your grandfather? you cretinous and moronic macaque monkey.

www.google.com.ng/search?q=picture+of+buhari's+certificate&client=ms-opera-mini-android&channel=new&gws_rd=cr&ei=MBa-VdjeMZH2yQSxzrGgAQ

you still don't have a prove, you only posted a rusted link, I recommend rehabilitation for you, until you give me something reasonable you are no difference from a mentally deranged baboon.

I will respond to those university graduates later. We need some level of decorum here, particularly from some university graduates who are talking like primary school children.

I will tell you why Buhari pasport may have been deteriorated after several decades. With this level of miopic reasoning by university graduates, I can see the reason why we have been stagnated technologically.

saxywale:

Yes..poly graduates and FUTA, FUT Minna, FUTO e.t.c would be mates in terms of having the same title(B.tech)..but employers would still be able to tell the difference by checking the name of the institution that awarded the certificate. Hence the discrimination continues.

no! Employers would knw the difference when holders of both certificates are subjected to an aptitude test

UYCO:
In my school, if you spend four months to do a project, the assumption is that you didnt do a good reseach work. We do our project for at least eight months. In some department, you have to plant crops in different places , sprincle crude oil on part of the farm. Then you go to the farm every week to determine the rate of growth and the physicochemical properties of the leave. heavy metal content through laboratory analysis. effect of consuming such plant and change in equlibrium in the ecosystem according Lechatalers principle. So, you cant use four months to complete a project work in my school. If that is your reason for asserting that BSC is better than HND , you have lost it again. If x is not equal to y, then y is not equal to x. Let me take your memory back to set theory in secondary school which you can easily understand if and only if your parents didnt use money to buy WAEC result for you. If set x contains the following elements 2165485 and set y contains 3521464. This means that some elements are in y that are not in x while some elements are in x that are not in y. Look for y union x and tell me if their is significant variance between set x and y. I give you as a take home assignment. You may wish to consult your professor to help you.

I think yUx should be (1234568) u r worded bro

Pure mathematics is different from applied mathematics. why is it that a degree in pure mathematics is not rated above applied mathematics? Same applies to industrial chemistry and pure chemistry. HND is like applied mathematics and BSC is like pure mathematics. The man who study pure mathematics is mainly useful in education while the man who study industrial mathematics is useful in production. University graduates in this forum should learn to think before making submissions. It is true that HND curricullum is not the same as BSC. Note also that BSC curricullum is not the same as HND. A BSC holder in mechanical engineering who want to acquire HND in my school will have to start from HND1 which is the equivalence of 300 level. The reason is that BSC is not also equivalent to HND because you have to do a lot of practicals to qualify you as an HND HOLDER. Let me give a simple example : A university engineer cannot walk into the laboratory to carry out experiment without the help of HND holders because he might end up causing explosion that may consume him and set the laboratory ablaze. This is because he is not trained to practically handle chemicals unlike his HND counterpart. A university scientist knows theoretically that water contains two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen but he cannot produce oxygen from water neither can he separate oxygen from hydrogen in water but the polytechnic scientist will separate oxygen from hydrogen practically. That HND holders know practical does not make them lesser than BSC holders.

The recent media sprout pertaining to the long lasted discrimination between holders of Bsc and Hnd degrees have successfully passed through to the second reading in the House Of Assembly.

However, the nobel Laurette; Professor Wole Soyinka was invited to Channels TV to share his opinion on the aforesaid issue. And he gave clarification on the matter by saying the Government is the root cause of the discrimination sprouting across all industries.

"Basically, looking at this, one would agree the cut off marks for these institutions are clearly not the same. But who sets these cut off marks? What would it cost the Government to ensure the appropriate bodies charged with the sole responsibility of setting the yardsticks into these institutions; get to review the measures.

These are pertinent things we shy away from. I can tell you I have been across products from both institutions and you should know they both produce quacks and good products. So its a question of individual development to an extent. But as regards the nomenclature of the divide. Most people claim, perhaps if the Government can put in facilities to upgrade the polytechincs, maybe they can measure up. But that is pure rubbish.

When was the last time facilities were installed in universities across the nation? All these rants need to stop, because its like planting a seed of enmity among these two categories of students.

When reliance is totally placed on a government on issues like this, the society fails to move forward. I personally think its high time students across both divides started looking forward to what they can do for themselves as individuals than what some certificate can do for you.

Geniuses are made and not born, but apparently, we have a government that isn't ready to scrutinize the frustrations being caused by the educational sector to these children at the early stage. When I pass Jamb a couple of times but refused admission several times at the university just because I didn't make them both my first choice and second choice, won't I opt for a polytechnic. Or must I keep trying till I wield grey hair? We need to think deep about these things.

The government has really neglected its checks and balances on that. A BSC holder and an Hnd holder should be equal given that they were both able to squarely take-on whatever that was thrown at them during their cause of study."

He was quoted saying these words Live on Channels TV.

Perhaps its time we rethink the whole fracas we are brewing across threads on this topic.

(Quote) (Report)

es

"
Olaseni
July 5, 2014

Writing from my desk here in Europe and a great lover of
more development in Nigeria.
After some useful research I discovered that one of the things affecting
Nigerian economy is lack of experts in production discipline .
permit me to explain briefly on the last line (AFFECTING NIGERIA ECONOMY).
In Nigeria today both the rich and poor buy cars for different means ,but
the point is we buy it from another country ,we are not producing or
manufacturing cars,escalator. Etc.
Do you know how many cars Nigerians buy yearly.
Do you know we do more of importation than exportation which is affecting
the economy.
From my research it proves that without the use of our polytechnic
graduates who have a solid background on production and technicality who
would depend on other technical expert from foreign countries who are also
technicians and they also have the same background like our polytechnic
students here .
The question is how come there is no discrimination over there.
Very simple it starts from the educational section .in Europe today nobody
cares about your abbreviation (BSc or HND), all they do is evaluation.
In Europe today if you have HND or bsc its on the same table and standard.
infact HND is more preferred in engineering sector.
You can use HND to do your MSC in Europe ,you can also use your bsc .can
you see there is no discrimination because the discrimination will affect
the countries technical improvements, but in Nigeria to bsc can only do MSC
direct but HND have to do PGD before MSC which is wrong.
The PGD is a waste of time and useless, because they keep on repeating the
same thing the HND student have gone through before. Its just a style of
discrimination, because of PGD many people don’t want to go to polytechnic
and to my opinion we need more polytechnic graduates.
The PGD is not a certificate valid in any sector its just a penalty that
help the discrimination.

Reply

On the bases of the above premises, I therefore conclude that university graduates are afraid of competition with HND holders if a level ground is created for both graduates. Their blood pressure tend to increase whenever the issue of parity between HND and BSC holders come to the fore. Well, it is too late to stop us. We are moving ahead. Prepare for competition, put on your thinking cap. New guide lines will emerge . Any engineer who is unable to design a product that is marketable within and outside Nigeria within five years will have his or her certificate withdrawn

BankeSmalls:
When you have a stark illiterate as president

YOU are talking as if we dont have BSC holders as brothers and friends. Note that my wife at home is a BSC holder and I teach her how to do almost every thing including official letters in her office. Most university graduates are like that. There is noting unique about university graduates. Most of them cant write memo in the office.

BornSad:


Great.

Nice take but I'd like to know, are you saying all HND awarding institutions should restructure their academic curriculum to fit into BSc programme or they should just change their degree nomenclature from HND to BSc? If the later is your suggestion, then I'd say it's an impractical theory from someone who does not really understand the academic structures that define these honours in question; and if it's the first, I'd admit you have a point but merely discarding one totally doesn't sound like a solution in any case of dichotomy. This is because both are very much different in terms of curriculum/course content and each has its own role. In the western world, France to be precise, we have different kinds of degrees awarded by different kinds of higher institutions; each playing its own role diligently. Some target people with less interest in fundamental theories, some target people who have less academic prowess and thus could not catch up with the high standards of some other higher institutions , some target the less privileged, etc. Discarding the few we have is a lazy man's shortcut which always leads to regret cause the moment we do that, the need for HND will become even more glaring. BSc is a university degree and, like it or not, not everyone can deal with it. The question is, should the standard be brought down to accommodate more people after discarding HND or should those that cannot meet up with this standard be left behind? We have many order degree awarding bodies with Bsc counterparts like nursing schools, schools of dentistry etc. The moment HND is restructured, each of these will start seeking similar treatment. How many of these shall we discard? None, cause each has its roles.

I'd rather say we channel our efforts towards bringing to limelight the distinct roles of these institutions and learn to appreciate the goals of each of these roles.

Once again, nice take; well articulated especially the suggestion of OND before BSc.

YOU are talking as if we dont have BSC holders as brothers and friends. Note that my wife at home is a BSC holder and I teach her how to do almost every thing including official letters in her office. Most university graduates are like that. There is noting unique about university graduates. Most of them cant write memo in the office.

UYCO:

YOU are talking as if we dont have BSC holders as brothers and friends. Note that my wife at home is a BSC holder and I teach her how to do almost every thing including official letters in her office. Most university graduates are like that. There is noting unique about university graduates. Most of them cant write memo in the office.

Sorry, I think you got me wrong. Of course, they are BSc holders that can hardly spell their names. It has never been all about degrees. I have also seen a BSc holder who knows his game more than an MSc holder yet, the MSc holder is paid more. Universities can not change some things about some individuals. But then, our educational system has tried to maintain some level of differences in the standards of both degrees. This is clearly spelt out in the fact that universities have a higher cut-off mark in UTME. While one struggles to make it into the university, there should be a second choice for those who can not meet up. If we remove HND, that second choice is lost. I do not think anybody chooses a poly as a main choice, it is always a falling ground and if it is scrapped, that fallen ground is lost and it will be a brutal fall for most people.

Point of correction, the Nigerian Petroleum Institute was never a second choice to me. It has always been my dream to enter that school. HND programme is not a second choice to every body. Some people also prefer federal university to state university.

@UYCO please i will like to know you
am a civil engineering student of Fed polytechnic Oko,Anambra state.how can i get your contact please?

Engineering Education trails far behind all other branches in Nigeria, and the first attempt whatsoever made at grappling with the challenge of modern technology in the country came as a result of the welfare act passed by the British government in 1940. It was on the basis’ of this act that the Nigerian Ten-year Technical Education Development Plan was formulated in 1944. In 1948, the Yaba Higher College (started about 1930) was broken up and the departments were transferred to form the nucleus of the University College Ibadan.

What remained of the Higher College was renamed Yaba Technical Institute to give practical expression to the new Technical Education Development Plan. Technical Education was then a novelty in the country and the government had to bring together various training centres being run by public departments to form the Yaba Technical Institute. Such centres included the Lands and Survey Training Centre which started in 1908, Marine in 1928, the P.W.D. in 1931, the Post and Telegraphs also in 1931 and the Railways in 1942.

Why did our Colonial Masters give engineering education a separate and distinct development plan? Why was a faculty of engineering not introduced along with other disciplines at the inception of Ibadan University College? Different people have different ways of looking at these question, but with the benefit of a hindsight, two reasons can now be positively adduced. In the first place if the University of Ibadan had to turn out graduate engineers in the early fifties, there would have been no industries to absorb such graduates. Secondly and most importantly, however, such modus operandi would have to run counter to established British tradition in the development of education.

In early days in Britain, every student engineer starts his career by first receiving a sound practical training under factory conditions, and progresses along professional ladder depending on individual talent, intellect and interest. The situation was such that nobody graduated to a professional engineer without indomitable bent in the practicals.

Even after the second world war, Britain adopted massive training of engineering personnel through full-time, part-time evening/day release courses in Technical Colleges to make-up for shortage of manpower in engineering industries leading to ONC/OND qualifications in engineering with sound practical know-how. The British track of development was undoubtedly what our colonial Masters envisaged in their ten-year technical education progranmme for Nigeria. Certainly, in ten years, with little attention, the Yaba Technical Institute would have been ripe enough to turn out its first batch of authentic Nigerian engineers trained to the 1st degree level while at the same time providing enough manpower at the middle-level cadre. This is in fact the practice in Britain and throughout Europe.

However, in the Nigerian history, which is now being reviewed, partly because our colonial Masters saw Africa foremost as raw materials workshop, and partly due to our own defective sense of appreciation. Technical Education was never developed in Nigeria.

Yaba Technical Institute was allowed to suffer a slow and emaciated growth. Ten years went by, but nothing was again heard of the ten-year development plan. The attitude ran through a span of almost one and half decades, and up to the dawn of our independence.

Immediately, after independence a floodgate of University campuses was thrown open, with the University of Lagos coming into existence by an act of Parliament in 1960. Nsukka, Ahmadu Bello University and Ife followed in quick succession. Nigerians had known the pride of wearing academic robe in law and Theology but they seemed to have totally forgotten that in Engineering, the hood does not make the monk.

Indeed, all the Universities came up with facilities in engineering, thus bringing an upsurge of entrants into engineering profession at the graduate level. Two things had immediately gone wrong. In less than ten years after independence, the nation was already filled with graduate engineers who were in actual fact no more than Science boys - because in the words of Professor Terry, “nobody ever learnt engineering from a book anymore than that a person ever acquired the art of swimming or bicycling theoretically in an armchair”.

Second wrong thing was the irony of building a house from roof top. As it were, Nigeria had succeeded in building an economy with the apex of technical manpower cadre overcrowded, and the middle level none-existent. Soon, questions were being raised about the quality of locally trained engineers, while the dearth of middle level manpower was embarrassingly acute.

Government started looking for solutions. Everybody knew quite well that solution lies in restructuring our system of engineering education; but from where do we start? Suddenly, it appeared the policy makers decided that the solutions start and end with restructuring the old Yaba Technical Institute but which had by 1963 metamorphosed into Yaba College of Technology. Many reasons were advanced:-

Firstly, records showed that the Yaba Technical Institute at its inauguration in 1948 was intended to produce the middle level man-power requirements of the country. The first solution to solving the problem of middle level manpower shortage therefore is to keep ‘Yaba’ well within its defined objectives of over 30 years back.

This view was sold to government, and it was generously accepted. There seemed to be no single person to recall that a ten-year technical education development plan should at the close of the planned period be able to produce very high level technological manpower.

Secondly, having regards to the nation’s poor technological performance, the source was almost certainly traced again to the College of Technology curriculum. Various papers were presented to show that Yaba boys were doing too much theory. This has to be cut to size while emphasis must be on the practical skills.

The arguments were as maliciously unsound as they were curiously illogical, but yet they held sway. In retrospect, it would seem so strange that in all this, the university engineering curriculum was left severely alone. In the ostensible quest for solution to acute shortage of middle level manpower, hilarious and rather effective propaganda was mounted to ensure that all products of Yaba College of Technology at whatever level were tagged middle-level manpower.

Technology students stood against all the onslaught. Very bold and daring attacks were actually launched to destroy the new enviable status of the Institution, but it was like trying to obliterate Mounts Olympus from the surface of the earth - for the 1968 College of Technology graduates are definitely not the same as the 1948 pioneers; not only have they now the right training, but theirs is a professional struggle and they have fought it to the surface.

Indeed, Technological education had already taken a firm and solid shape in Nigeria. The Old Yaba Technical Institute has yielded place to Technical Colleges as the main centres for the production of middle-level manpower; and it equally turns out a cream of Ordinary Diploma graduates in the middle level cadre. The Higher Diploma which is now the highest qualification being awarded had been hard worn and the battle to retain and enhance it continues till this day.

It has to be recalled that the renaming of Yaba Technical Institute as Yaba College of Technology in 1963 was itself not done until a very hot students’ agitation. The renaming brought in its wake the enrolment of students for the Higher Technician Diploma of the City and Guilds of London.

Still in research of progress, Yaba students went on strike again in 1969 calling for the abrogation of the Higher Technician Diploma and autonomy for the College. In July 1969, Decree No. 23 was promulgated after students’ agitation which necessitated shutting down the institution for five weeks! The old Technical Institute has at last graduated into motherhood.

Section 1 (a) of Decree 23 of July 1969 states:-
“To provide courses of Instruction, Training and RESEARCH in Applied Science, Technology, Commerce, Management, and such other field of learning as the Council may from time to time determine”.

A comparison of Decree 23 of 1969 which re-established the Yaba College of Technology with the University of Lagos Decree 3 of 1967 is quite revealing:-
1 (3) The objects of the University shall be:-
1 (3) (b) “To provide courses of instruction and other facilities for the pursuit of learning in all its branches, and to make those facilities available on proper terms to such persons as are equipped to benefit from them”.
1 (3) (c) “To encourage, promote and conduct research in all fields of learning and human endeavor”

The Decree 23 of 1969 was nothing but a fulfillment of the philosophy that gave birth to polytechnic education the world over and it was indicative of the level of technological development in post-independence Nigeria.

In the early 70’s, many of the product of Yaba College of Technology graduated with H.N.D. certificates were accepted and worked in companies as Engineers. In those days also after the Nigerian Civil War, developments was going on in all aspects of the nation’s economy, and as such, the early professional returnees from the U.K. and other oversea countries established consultancy firms in the country with H.N.D. /H.N.C. holders from the U.K. and Yaba College of Technology employed in their firms as Engineers, and were performing creditably well.

Soon after, Council of Registered Engineers of Nigeria (COREN) was established, and was then strongly believed it was through the assistance of members of Nigerian Society of Engineers. This belief was soon confirmed when COREN Decree of 1970 was obtained, with Newspaper publications coupled with direct letters to Government Ministries and companies, limiting only holders of B.Sc. qualifications to be employed as engineers.

That action was seen as discriminations against graduates of Colleges of Technology and Polytechnics.

BankeSmalls:
"When you have a stark illiterate as president" I want to see how you will make it in life with this your arrogant stand.

Misternas89:
BSc n HND differs gidi gan......imagine I was being supervised, lectured n examined by a professor now comparing with an institution where d only PhD holder will be the Rector. The difference is clear jooorh....spent 4 months working on my project( effect of photoperiods on African catfish clarias gariepinus) whereby anoda HND2 student is running helter skelter to his/her departmental library to get a copy of a previous project 4rm anoda person. Proudly #BScZoologistGraduate

bros.. A professor who lectures u only from wat he has read and not experience... I went tru babcock computer science courses and all the courses are courses i took in my ND days.. So wat do u say to dat.. I knw of a computer science B.sc holder who doesnt hw to write a console program. So pls tell me wat exactly r u superior in d fact dat professors come to download wat dey'v read to u or wat?

Let me use this opportunity to call on all polytechnic students across the country to publicly burn copies of the Federal scheme of service as a mark of rejection. The scheme of service was written by BSC holders for themselves only. This is like implementing sharia law in Isreal. How can they group us together with secondary school drop out. It shows that they dont understand what the polytechnic education is. They should determine their own Job placement not ours. You all must start this agitation now. You will discover that you wasted five years in the poly when you read the scheme of service. An SSCE holders who stay at home for three years or do sales girl work for three years is placed on the same level with HND holders. Why should you go to school to waste five years when the scheme of service says you can stay at home for three years and get experience that will enable you to occupy the same position with HND holders.

If the federal government does not want polytechnic education, the government should shut down all polytechnic in this country and stop wasting people's time. Time is precious.

Yo.

UYCO:
The guy is not ashamed to talk of zoology where engineers are talking. I have not seen any body who fill Jamb form and chose zoology as first choice. Even if the offer of admission is given to me free without payment of school fees, I wont accept it. zoology is only accepted by students with poor academic performance. He acknowledged the fact that he wrote Jamb for three years. My brother , this is not an animal farm or cattle ranche where you behave like animal. I suddenly realized that there is a link between your reasoning and that of GEJ. I think the course has a way of affecting your thinking. In a bid to learn how to relate with animals, some of you tend to behave like animal.

My friend you are not an engineer but a technologist. You can never be registered as an engineer with HND by COREN. Stop claiming what you are not.

COREN IS A FRAUD CREATED POLITICALLY TO HIDE THE INCOMPETENCE OF UNIVERSITY ENGINEERS. WHO TOLD THEM THAT WE CAN ONLY IMPLEMENT THEIR DESIGN? WE DONT NEED UNIVERSITY ENGINEERS BUT THEY NEED US LIKE THE BLOOD IN THEIR BODY. WE CAN DESIGN AND PRODUCE

COREN IS A FRAUD CREATED POLITICALLY TO HIDE THE INCOMPETENCE OF UNIVERSITY ENGINEERS. WHO TOLD THEM THAT WE CAN ONLY IMPLEMENT THEIR DESIGN? WE DONT NEED UNIVERSITY ENGINEERS BUT THEY NEED US LIKE THE BLOOD IN THEIR BODY. WE CAN DESIGN AND PRODUCE ONLY FEW OF THEM KNOW HOW TO DESIGN BUT THEY CANNOT IMPLEMENT. THAT IS THEIR GREATEST FEAR. THEY SAW THAT THEIR THEORETICAL PAPER CERTICATE WAS BECOMING IRRELEVANT AND THEY CONTRIBUTED MONEY TO COMPROMISE THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TO PASS COREN BILL INTO LAW FOR THEIR BENEFIT. CHANGE IS THE ONLY CONSTANT PHENOMENON.

Princecalm:
you should even be ashamed of saying this, for God sake who on earth still holds that against the President

BUHARI NOR GET WAEC CERTIFICATE BROS NOR LIE JARE.

Princecalm:




is it now you want to bring this matter down... .?

NEVER YOU DENY THAT FACT

ERAKAMUS:
NEVER YOU DENY THAT FACT

I will simply advise you to wait till 2019 before bringing this up again because right now it doesn't make any difference

[s]

Princecalm:



I will simply advise you to wait till 2019 before bringing this up again because right now it doesn't make any difference

[/s]

UYCO:
COREN IS A FRAUD CREATED POLITICALLY TO HIDE THE INCOMPETENCE OF UNIVERSITY ENGINEERS. WHO TOLD THEM THAT WE CAN ONLY IMPLEMENT THEIR DESIGN? WE DONT NEED UNIVERSITY ENGINEERS BUT THEY NEED US LIKE THE BLOOD IN THEIR BODY. WE CAN DESIGN AND PRODUCT. ONLY FEW OF THEM KNOW HOW TO DESIGN BUT THEY CANNOT IMPLEMENT. THAT IS THEIR GREATEST FEAR. THEY SAW THAT THEIR THEORETICAL PAPER CERTICATE WAS BECOMING IRRELEVANT AND THEY CONTRIBUTED MONEY TO COMPROMISE THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TO PASS COREN BILL INTO LAW FOR THEIR BENEFIT. CHANGE IS THE ONLY CONSTANT PHENOMENON.

I hope you know this issue is not a Nigerian thing. The scope of training of engineers is more indepth. You cannot tell me a person that developed a design from the first principles cannot implement his design. Truth is Technologists (I.e. HND) are trained to be junior partners to the engineers in the profession. Its just like a nurse claiming equality with a medical doctor.

Can you describe a man who said stealing is not corruption as a degree holder? remember, the man who propounded "My oga at the top" theory is a BSC holder. Shame!!

@Nezan, this your lie has expired. Note that the HND in Briton and America is different from our HND here. What makes you feel we are trained to be Junior Engineers. For your information, there is nothing a university engineer can do in terms of calculation and theory that I cannot do but there are so many things I can do practically that they cannot do. You said we are trained to be Junior Engineers ignorantly because you didnt pass through the system to know the level of calculation that we do. Let us assume that you are right. A degree is awarded on the basis of knowledge that one acquires. Your baseless assumption is that university engineers are more knowledgeable than their polytechnic counterparts. We are saying that you should prove that to us by participating in the same aptitude test with HND holders in your field of studies so that you can show to the World practically that you are better but I discovered that most university graduates are running away from this suggestion. Who ever pass the aptitude test should be regaded as an engineer. The determination of grade level should be on the basis of the aptitude test. Let us see how well you can do better than us. I have seen too many dull university engineers in the civil service hiding behind paper qualification. Oil companies aptitude test has vindicated us that we are better than you guys in terms of theory and practical. We want to prove it in the civil service too that we are better. Government should set exam for both graduates. We want to see how well you will do better than us since you claim that we are trained to be under you. Or you want me to teach you your work and still be under you. NO WAY. THIS LIE HAS EXPIRED. THANKS