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The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? - Politics - Nairaland

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The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by helinues: 7:19pm On Sep 20, 2015
Over four decades after the devastating secession bid by the Igbos through the Nigerian civil war, many Igbos are still vigorously pursuing the actualization of the Biafran dream. So much so that a radio station called “Radio Biafra” broadcasts hate messages against the Nigerian government. Efforts to close down the broadcasts have proved unsuccessful. It turns out that quite a number of Igbos tune-in to the station and agree with the message.

The Nigerian Constitution in Section 39 (1): ‘Every person shall be entitled to freedom of expression, including freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart ideas and information without interference. There is nothing wrong with wanting to secede. This piece is just to examine the feasibility of the whole idea.

One thing I would like to point out is that secession is hardly done peacefully. No nation will let go of a territory perceived to be theirs without a fight, especially with the fact that crude oil, the bulk of the nation’s foreign exchange earner comes from there. The least of wars is extremely devastating. The horrors of war are far better imagined than experienced. The bloodshed, widespread devastation, destruction, displacement and resultant famine are not worth it. There is no justification for inciting the public, or attempting to instigate violence. War is never pretty. It is only glamorous in movies, not in real life.
Let us assume that the Biafra advocates intend to do it peacefully, by means of a referendum. What exactly is their game plan? What really do they want?

Let’s get real. MASSOB is agitating for a sovereign state. If Biafra is allowed to exist, what then happens to Igbos scattered across the country? What would become of their various businesses? Many Igbos will automatically become foreigners in Nigeria, requiring visas and passports to travel and requiring permits to continue to operate their businesses. Many of them would be at the mercy of immigration officers who would order their deportation at will. How feasible is that?

How many Igbos would surrender their property acquired in Lagos and Abuja to the government of Nigeria? How would Biafra compensate them in return? Let us not forget that majority of people in the “clearing and forwarding, importer and exporter business” are the Igbos.
So all these successful people will leave the big cities- Lagos, Abuja, Kano, Kaduna etc. to live in that small niche of land? Remember that it was land constraints that forced them out in the first place.

Another bone of contention is the extent of Biafra land. We all know for sure that it comprises the Igbo-speaking states. One does not know what would become of the South-South states, or Delta state which has a small Igbo population.
Instead of clamouring for a Biafran state, it would be wise for Biafran agitators to focus on fighting for a level playing field in Nigeria. For instance, it’s only the South East region that has 5 states, all other regions have 6 states, and one region has 7. This has immense implications because the Federal Accounts Allocation Committee (FAAC) is shared by many criteria including number of Local Governments in a state. More revenue would translate to more funds at their disposal. This should be a focal point for those fighting for the Biafran cause.
Let the Biafra agitators fight for capital projects that would benefit their people. The South East has no Federal steel rolling mill, a region which has Aba, Nnewi and Onitsha, three manufacturing and industrial hubs. Even more astonishing is the fact that there was no sea port or international airport in decades. Those clamouring for Biafra will do well to make demands on the executive and the legislative arms of government. These are legitimate demands.

Why can’t the agitators hold each State Governor in the South East accountable for the infrastructure in those states? For instance, most South Eastern roads are in a terrible state. It isn’t too much for them to build standard multiple-lane expressways with rail services that would link all South Eastern states.

How about education? How about healthcare? How about welfare? How about employment? How about crime? How about human rights? How about erosion control? What have the Biafran agitators done to improve the lot of their people in these key areas?
It is very foolhardy to believe that all these issues will miraculously be solved when Biafra comes to existence. Biafran agitators make Biafra seem like Paradise, a place where things could never go wrong. Whether you like it or not, if you don’t tackle your problems now, your problems would multiply when you have your separate country. It is your governors that you fail to task on good governance that would still rule you in Biafra. You will have it rougher because Nigeria would be as hostile as your other neighbor, Cameroon.
I believe those that want Biafra should work towards improving the lot of their people… simple. Biafra should be a fight for good governance and improved lifestyle.


Source: https://www.facebook.com/forum9ja/posts/957349230993544

3 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Agbalanze(m): 7:36pm On Sep 20, 2015
If u ask me, na who I go ask
Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 7:41pm On Sep 20, 2015
Yes secession is the answer!

8 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by sdindan: 7:43pm On Sep 20, 2015
Yes Biafra is the Answer

7 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Bunducisco: 7:47pm On Sep 20, 2015
Yes my brother and i think it can be delayed not stopped, give us presidency, still Biafra will be roaming around us,we want it to rest okay

ITS COMING

10 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by 9jii(m): 7:48pm On Sep 20, 2015
Its plssss 4 god sake.
The only problem is They are not serious about it.
Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 7:50pm On Sep 20, 2015
Biafra it is for me. Thank you very much.

2 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 8:04pm On Sep 20, 2015
After fighting for the SE states to have one to state that will make it six, you will fight for LGs to be increased, after fighting that one you will fight for improved allocation for the resources drilled from you land, after that you will fight for Federal presence, after fighting all these useless battles you still fight for uniform cut off marks for FG Unity colleges, after that another fight will come up, haba na only fight you come Nigeria come fight.













At the end of everything if there is Cartoon of a dead Arabian man in Denmark you will be killed, if US invaded Afghanistan or Iraq you will be lynched, if Israel fought Hamas in Middle East you will clubbed to death after that one.




If you vote your candidate you will be drown in Lagoon or you won't be treated similar those that voted for the winner is treated.



Nigeria is doomed

6 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by c33b33(m): 8:19pm On Sep 20, 2015
How will people of no common ideology live together?

This article smirks of ignorance,please make a good research about secession especially concerning properties and business because that seems to be you lots problem. Though you are right about no peaceful secession but that is peculiar with uncivilized country like nigeria.

As for politicians the only action to deal with them now is a revolution. We need Biafra to deal with them.

You talk about healthcare, education etc but you are ignorant of the reports of the two national conference that has been thrown into aso rock dustbin. If a national confab report cannot be implemented,what will be implemented?

If I may ask,can you give us convincing reasons why nigeria will work soon so we can stop clamoring
for secession.

IPOB Youth

6 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by brize(m): 8:51pm On Sep 20, 2015
Everybody knows we are not one people, so lets forget about one Nigeria nonsense and focus on dividing this zoo so that everybody will go his way........... Divide the Nigeria, #freeBiafra

3 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Duru1(m): 9:00pm On Sep 20, 2015
One of the answers to the question is YES!!! In case of the zoo called Nigeria, secession is certainly the solution. Sure, secession is hardly peaceful yet there are peaceful secessions or total breakup of countries around the world. Nigeria shall not be the first or last. Please acknowledge that plebiscite is not the most important route to national self-determination.

3 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 9:04pm On Sep 20, 2015
Biafra will come at the right time but first we have to do what the OP is saying
Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by coolitempa(f): 9:04pm On Sep 20, 2015
Yes to Biafra......no to Internet Biafra....like yesterday sef........but these guys are just not serious....that is the issue..... cheesy cheesy

2 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by kenny987(f): 9:16pm On Sep 20, 2015
Don't cry more than the bereaved. The concerned persons (Biafrans) have counted the costs and are willing to proceed for the greater good. This is the period of sensitization and awareness so stakeholders have a clear understanding and get involved. There are millions of Nigerians scattered in other countries. They are doing just fine and there is no rule that says that all Biafrans must reside in Biafra just like there are Nigerians in diaspora.

To answer your question, secession/separation is the best solution. If for 100 + years of existence we are still the way we are then it is time to pursue an alternative more decisively than previous times. If the CONFAB cannot be implemented and all the calls for restructuring cannot be heeded what extra fight do u want? Nigeria is a forceful and inorganic creation. That in itself in a fundamental issue.

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by kernel501: 9:18pm On Sep 20, 2015
I have lots of respect for the writer of this article. But l want to correct a lot of impressions.

1. You talked about Biafra having small space of land

Nigeria 923,768
France 551,500
Japan 377,915
Germany 357,022
New Zealand 270,467

From the above data you will understand that Nigeria is larger in Land mass and population, yet there economy is not half compared to ours.
Japan doesn't have any mineral resources yet there GDP per capital is more 800% better than ours, why?
Simple... they are hard working people,same with Germans.
Secondly, Abia State alone is bigger than Lagos twice, use Google search and check the size, yet Lagos has 20 million people now, while Abia has 5 million now... that means only Abia alone can house 30-40 million people.

2. I can assure you that if there is a referendum today for secession, 90% Igbos will sign-up for that. Look after the war we had nothing, today... we are far better off.

3. 80% of oil wells are owned by Northerners, and you are asking us to keep quite?

4. They want us in Nigeria, but we don't deserve to be president, right? On top our Oil shaiiii !!!

3 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 9:30pm On Sep 20, 2015
kernel501:
I have lots of respect for the writer of this article. But l want to correct a lot of impressions.

1. You talked about Biafra having small space of land

Nigeria 923,768
France 551,500
Japan 377,915
Germany 357,022
New Zealand 270,467

From the above data you will understand that Nigeria is larger in Land mass and population, yet there economy is not half compared to ours.
Japan doesn't have any mineral resources yet there GDP per capital is more 800% better than ours, why?
Simple... they are hard working people,same with Germans.

2. I can assure you that if there is a referendum today for secession, 90% Igbos will sign-up for that. Look after the war we had nothing, today... we are far better off.

3. 80% of oil wells are owned by Northerners, and you are asking us to keep quite?

4. They want us in Nigeria, but we don't deserve to be president, right?


We should gift the presidency to the igbos on a platter of gold?

if you want presidency won't you work towards it?

Igbos should be allowed to leave jareee, we sef don tire for them.
Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by PentiumPro(f): 9:30pm On Sep 20, 2015
Nigerians,please for the sake of progress, let Biafrans go!

1 Like

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by kernel501: 9:33pm On Sep 20, 2015
Alcatraz001:


We should gift the presidency to the igbos on a platter of gold?

if you want presidency won't you work towards it?

Igbos should be allowed to leave jareee, we sef don tire for them.

I like what you said... That you are tired of them, and they are tired of you too and so... marriage over !!!
Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 9:36pm On Sep 20, 2015
IS ONE NIGERIA BY FORCE




We seek freedom .?
Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 9:54pm On Sep 20, 2015
begging the biafrans to continue in same cespit country with them using cheap blackmails. telling them about there properties and wealth but when u ask them they will never agree biafrans are wealthy people. for your information we have calculated the risk and we are ready to take the risk.

2 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 9:57pm On Sep 20, 2015
Nigeria seize to exist since 2014. It is a crime to say that there is a country called Nigeria.


Me? A Nigerian? God forbid.

2 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 9:59pm On Sep 20, 2015
PentiumPro:
Nigerians,please for the sake of progress, let Biafrans go!

Abi ooooo, I think the problem lies with ibo leaders and the hausas. if the leaders can key into the biafrans dream and the majority of ibos demonstrate their seriousness by pulling out of Nigeria back into the east, they will have their Biafra in less than a month.

All thus internet issue is for kids.

1 Like

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 10:00pm On Sep 20, 2015
PentiumPro:
Nigerians,please for the sake of progress, let Biafrans go!

Abi ooooo, I think the problem lies with ibo leaders and the hausas. if the leaders can key into the biafrans dream and the majority of ibos demonstrate their seriousness by pulling out of Nigeria back into the east, they will have their Biafra in less than a month.

All thus internet agitation is for kids.

1 Like

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 10:03pm On Sep 20, 2015
helinues:
Over four decades after the devastating secession bid by the Igbos through the Nigerian civil war, many Igbos are still vigorously pursuing the actualization of the Biafran dream. So much so that a radio station called “Radio Biafra” broadcasts hate messages against the Nigerian government. Efforts to close down the broadcasts have proved unsuccessful. It turns out that quite a number of Igbos tune-in to the station and agree with the message.

The Nigerian Constitution in Section 39 (1): ‘Every person shall be entitled to freedom of expression, including freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart ideas and information without interference. There is nothing wrong with wanting to secede. This piece is just to examine the feasibility of the whole idea.

One thing I would like to point out is that secession is hardly done peacefully. No nation will let go of a territory perceived to be theirs without a fight, especially with the fact that crude oil, the bulk of the nation’s foreign exchange earner comes from there. The least of wars is extremely devastating. The horrors of war are far better imagined than experienced. The bloodshed, widespread devastation, destruction, displacement and resultant famine are not worth it. There is no justification for inciting the public, or attempting to instigate violence. War is never pretty. It is only glamorous in movies, not in real life.
Let us assume that the Biafra advocates intend to do it peacefully, by means of a referendum. What exactly is their game plan? What really do they want?

Let’s get real. MASSOB is agitating for a sovereign state. If Biafra is allowed to exist, what then happens to Igbos scattered across the country? What would become of their various businesses? Many Igbos will automatically become foreigners in Nigeria, requiring visas and passports to travel and requiring permits to continue to operate their businesses. Many of them would be at the mercy of immigration officers who would order their deportation at will. How feasible is that?

How many Igbos would surrender their property acquired in Lagos and Abuja to the government of Nigeria? How would Biafra compensate them in return? Let us not forget that majority of people in the “clearing and forwarding, importer and exporter business” are the Igbos.
So all these successful people will leave the big cities- Lagos, Abuja, Kano, Kaduna etc. to live in that small niche of land? Remember that it was land constraints that forced them out in the first place.

Another bone of contention is the extent of Biafra land. We all know for sure that it comprises the Igbo-speaking states. One does not know what would become of the South-South states, or Delta state which has a small Igbo population.
Instead of clamouring for a Biafran state,[b] it would be wise for Biafran agitators to focus on fighting for a level playing field in Nigeria. For instance, it’s only the South East region that has 5 states, all other regions have 6 states, and one region has 7. This has immense implications because the Federal Accounts Allocation Committee (FAAC) is shared by many criteria including number of Local Governments in a state. More revenue would translate to more funds at their disposal. This should be a focal point for those fighting for the Biafran cause.
Let the Biafra agitators fight for capital projects that would benefit their people. The South East has no Federal steel rolling mill, a region which has Aba, Nnewi and Onitsha, three manufacturing and industrial hubs. Even more astonishing is the fact that there was no sea port or international airport in decades. Those clamouring for Biafra will do well to make demands on the executive and the legislative arms of government. These are legitimate demands.

Why can’t the agitators hold each State Governor in the South East accountable for the infrastructure in those states? For instance, most South Eastern roads are in a terrible state. It isn’t too much for them to build standard multiple-lane expressways with rail services that would link all South Eastern states.

How about education? How about healthcare? How about welfare? How about employment? How about crime? How about human rights? How about erosion control? What have the Biafran agitators done to improve the lot of their people in these key areas?
It is very foolhardy to believe that all these issues will miraculously be solved when Biafra comes to existence. Biafran agitators make Biafra seem like Paradise, a place where things could never go wrong. Whether you like it or not, if you don’t tackle your problems now, your problems would multiply when you have your separate country. It is your governors that you fail to task on good governance that would still rule you in Biafra. You will have it rougher because Nigeria would be as hostile as your other neighbor, Cameroon.
I believe those that want Biafra should work towards improving the lot of their people… simple. Biafra should be a fight for good governance and improved lifestyle.[/b]


Source: https://www.facebook.com/forum9ja/posts/957349230993544


From e text on bold, am glad you know our plight and the reason why we are agitating. It is wrong for we to be treated like this for 100 years and you will keep saying 'one Nigeria'


We are not interested in asking for what you all know is happening. We are Biafrans and not Nigerians. If we are Nigerians, we wouldn't be treated as such. Things would have being fair on us and all Nigerians but for the fact that it is so, so shall it be.




In Buhari's voice proudly 5%

IPOB
God bless Federal Republic of Biafra.





Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 10:08pm On Sep 20, 2015
I know OP is yoruba. As usual looking to covet Biafrans' properties and businesses upon secession. Biafra will secede and Biafrans with businesses and properties will still own what rightfully belongs to them in Nigeria as protected by international laws. Just as you Yorubas own properties in UK, US, e.t.c., so shall Biafrans continue to own and acquire properties in Nigeria. This is common sense...bunch of uncivilized, lazy black people.

4 Likes 1 Share

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 10:40pm On Sep 20, 2015
Yes secession is the answer. Please give the Igbos Biafra. self determination is the right of any group and people shouldn't be forced into a relationship they don't wanna be in.

Yorubas support their peaceful exit from Nigeria. and we will do everything in our power to help them achieve this, as long as it is by peaceful means. The earlier, the better.

this is no longer the 20th century, this is the 21st century. No need for war. If the South-south tribes want to join them, odabo, we wish them well.

God bless the peoples of Nigeria.

3 Likes

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by c33b33(m): 12:05am On Sep 21, 2015
Some educated morons call it internet agitation but they read the brown envelope journalists newspapers and all the effort of their B.oohari using military might,killing and detaining of IPOB members and threatening every satelite carrier of Radio Biafra. Lol

Only those that can reason will understand.

IPOB Youth

1 Like

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by c33b33(m): 12:08am On Sep 21, 2015
Ioannes:
Yes secession is the answer. Please give the Igbos Biafra. self determination is the right of any group and people shouldn't be forced into a relationship they don't wanna be in.

Yorubas support their peaceful exit from Nigeria. and we will do everything in our power to help them achieve this, as long as it is by peaceful means. The earlier, the better.

this is no longer the 20th century, this is the 21st century. No need for war. If the South-south tribes want to join them, odabo, we wish them well.

God bless the peoples of Nigeria.

Can you ask the mod to close it down and please nothing like south south.

IPOB Youth
Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Scholes007(m): 12:35am On Sep 21, 2015
Peaceful Biafran secession should be view as a long time struggle which shouldnot be over politised... To me biafra dream should be a success but for now i think it just beyond the stage of enlightenment As we could notice from the amount of awareness & response of many people in the target population. Hence this should be the period of preparation and planning in terms of provision of quality basic amenity, resources, stratagy, policies and planning. Here is where the state governors in the included states, organisations (like ohaneze ndiigbo and other groups) and individuals should bring their cards together and work to build a viable ground for the actualisation of the said country without heating up polity... It should include creation of peaceful & economicaly viable states, improving on infrastructal and basic amenity deficit, creation and funding of black ops specially designed to take on international,domestic,dirty and cyber politics then should the real Agitation start
Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Nobody: 12:47am On Sep 21, 2015
helinues:
Over four decades after the devastating secession bid by the Igbos through the Nigerian civil war, many Igbos are still vigorously pursuing the actualization of the Biafran dream. So much so that a radio station called “Radio Biafra” broadcasts hate messages against the Nigerian government. Efforts to close down the broadcasts have proved unsuccessful. It turns out that quite a number of Igbos tune-in to the station and agree with the message.

The Nigerian Constitution in Section 39 (1): ‘Every person shall be entitled to freedom of expression, including freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart ideas and information without interference. There is nothing wrong with wanting to secede. This piece is just to examine the feasibility of the whole idea.

One thing I would like to point out is that secession is hardly done peacefully. No nation will let go of a territory perceived to be theirs without a fight, especially with the fact that crude oil, the bulk of the nation’s foreign exchange earner comes from there. The least of wars is extremely devastating. The horrors of war are far better imagined than experienced. The bloodshed, widespread devastation, destruction, displacement and resultant famine are not worth it. There is no justification for inciting the public, or attempting to instigate violence. War is never pretty. It is only glamorous in movies, not in real life.
Let us assume that the Biafra advocates intend to do it peacefully, by means of a referendum. What exactly is their game plan? What really do they want?

Let’s get real. MASSOB is agitating for a sovereign state. If Biafra is allowed to exist, what then happens to Igbos scattered across the country? What would become of their various businesses? Many Igbos will automatically become foreigners in Nigeria, requiring visas and passports to travel and requiring permits to continue to operate their businesses. Many of them would be at the mercy of immigration officers who would order their deportation at will. How feasible is that?

How many Igbos would surrender their property acquired in Lagos and Abuja to the government of Nigeria? How would Biafra compensate them in return? Let us not forget that majority of people in the “clearing and forwarding, importer and exporter business” are the Igbos.
So all these successful people will leave the big cities- Lagos, Abuja, Kano, Kaduna etc. to live in that small niche of land? Remember that it was land constraints that forced them out in the first place.

Another bone of contention is the extent of Biafra land. We all know for sure that it comprises the Igbo-speaking states. One does not know what would become of the South-South states, or Delta state which has a small Igbo population.
Instead of clamouring for a Biafran state, it would be wise for Biafran agitators to focus on fighting for a level playing field in Nigeria. For instance, it’s only the South East region that has 5 states, all other regions have 6 states, and one region has 7. This has immense implications because the Federal Accounts Allocation Committee (FAAC) is shared by many criteria including number of Local Governments in a state. More revenue would translate to more funds at their disposal. This should be a focal point for those fighting for the Biafran cause.
Let the Biafra agitators fight for capital projects that would benefit their people. The South East has no Federal steel rolling mill, a region which has Aba, Nnewi and Onitsha, three manufacturing and industrial hubs. Even more astonishing is the fact that there was no sea port or international airport in decades. Those clamouring for Biafra will do well to make demands on the executive and the legislative arms of government. These are legitimate demands.

Why can’t the agitators hold each State Governor in the South East accountable for the infrastructure in those states? For instance, most South Eastern roads are in a terrible state. It isn’t too much for them to build standard multiple-lane expressways with rail services that would link all South Eastern states.

How about education? How about healthcare? How about welfare? How about employment? How about crime? How about human rights? How about erosion control? What have the Biafran agitators done to improve the lot of their people in these key areas?
It is very foolhardy to believe that all these issues will miraculously be solved when Biafra comes to existence. Biafran agitators make Biafra seem like Paradise, a place where things could never go wrong. Whether you like it or not, if you don’t tackle your problems now, your problems would multiply when you have your separate country. It is your governors that you fail to task on good governance that would still rule you in Biafra. You will have it rougher because Nigeria would be as hostile as your other neighbor, Cameroon.
I believe those that want Biafra should work towards improving the lot of their people… simple. Biafra should be a fight for good governance and improved lifestyle.


Source: https://www.facebook.com/forum9ja/posts/957349230993544




Ukraine split n some regions left the country... No one had yo forfeit anything.
Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by coolitempa(f): 12:58am On Sep 21, 2015
Ibos must be serious about Biafra.......nothing for them in 'hateful' winkNigeria......get your politicians on board and get a commitment to a referendum.....next step conduct one and please make sure you win....but work with recognised international bodies......... wink....I will help persuade other iboes to vote to secede......just goooooooooooooooooo....enough of Internet Biafra.....bloody animals....... angry grin

1 Like

Re: The Biafra Question: Is Secession The Answer? by Scholes007(m): 1:29am On Sep 21, 2015
coolitempa:
Iboes must be serious about Biafra.......nothing for them in hateful Nigeria......get your politicians on board and get a commitment to a referendum.....next step conduct one and please make sure you win....but work with recognised international bodies......... wink....I will help persuade other iboes to vote for succession......just goooooooooooooooooo....enough of Internet Biafra.....bloody animals....... angry grin
ibo or igbo? I dont think there are the only ones in this ok

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