@ElRazur, how exactly does a biomedical scientist differ from that of a medical lab scientist?

@OP Any idea of our present ranking now?

Mai Suya:

@ElRazur, how exactly does a biomedical scientist differ from that of a medical lab scientist?

In So So Many different ways @Mai Suya

Again, I'm shocked someone, right thinking- I hope would deny that Nigeria's healthcare industry is 1600 A.D grade. As a physician, it makes my heart bleed to hear reports of infant mortality from simple illnesses such as dehydration, or even ear infection; post-partum mortality from lack of basic screening; deaths from simply trauma, and not to talk of simple infectious processes.
Then, there're hospitals like the National hospital Abuja. From what I know about this hospital, your chances of being killed by ill-educated doctors/politicians staffing this giant national shame is very high. (Private advice- if you get sick in Abuja, rush yourself to ABUTH, UNTH, UCH, or LUTH).
From the video, I see the doctor was advocating for certain types of equipment over the other, which is ok, but what about running a privatized medical delivary system. Doctors would be allowed to import equipments that work best for them: American vs. European.
If you wait untill all heathcare delivery is made by one office, one agency, and one person, we would end up like the NEPA situation. I advocate privatization like the NITEL situation.
The problem with Nigeria is not lack of manpower, or even equipments, but that of over-ridding federal control that forces everybody to match to the same stupid tune.

@Tombola: I had said before that you re just a lousy personality! If can not get involved in an intelligent discussion why forcing youself and making baseless and insensitive assertions?
You do not love Nigeria more than any other contributor here,,Nigeria is our country that is something or a fact we cannot change! The fact that somebody criticise or condemned some of the happenings in Nigeria does not mean such person hates Nigeria.If you want to solve a problem, the first thing to do is accept there is a problem by Identifying with that problem in order for you to profer a solution to such problem.
For a country with little or no power supply how can there health facility not be the worst in the world?Until the death of the coach that won the last under 17 world cup for Nigeria,,,LUTH had just one life saving machine,,,the life saving machine was on another patient while the coach was admitted on emergency,,they took off the machine from that patient in order to resuscitate the coach,,,that patient died eventually so does the coach.How do you describe such scenerio?In thesame LUTH,,where female Doctors & Nurses were been raped until recently because of power supply issue that makes the hospital so dark at night,,You know what? its a very stupid and unpatriotic thing to do if you keep defend issues like this all in the name that ,,,am a true Nigerian!who is a fake Nigerian?

@georgecso
You are yet to correct the mistake in the OP and/or title.

The statement in the OP, attributed to the NMA president in the article, seems to have been based on the 2000 World Health Report (which was the last time WHO evaluated health systems in member states, with Nigeria being ranked 187 out of 190 states), and thus is less likely a true indication of where things stand currently: we could have gotten better, or gotten worse. Personally I hope it is the former, but won't be surprised if it was the latter.

@Biina

I wish so many people on NairaLand can think exactly like you do. Thumbs up to you.

Idle rantings dont move me one bit.

One reason why things continue to get worse in Nigeria is because there're people who continue to defend evil. For those people, I say wait till you're in the hospital, critically sick, lying on a strectcher waiting for an operation only to discover that of all the people dressed as surgeons nobody actually ever attended a surgery residency program. Then and only after that will you understand the disease called mediocrity.

naijaking1:

One reason why things continue to get worse in Nigeria is because there're people who continue to defend evil. For those people, I say wait till you're in the hospital, critically sick, lying on a strectcher waiting for an operation only to discover that of all the people dressed as surgeons nobody actually ever attended a surgery residency program. Then and only after that will you understand the disease called mediocrity.

Noone is defending evil, all we are saying is this, we all know things are bad, fine, what do you have to contribute to make it better instead of ranting the obvious? A man who said he is a Lab Scientist was asked how he will improve the health system in Nigeria if made the health minister, do you know what he said, he said he has no idea, yet, he is the one spearheading the repetitive and boring statements about the bad state of our health delivery, which we all know of course, but the question is, what will u propose to be done to make it better, this same man, if appointed has no vision and the vision he has is how to line his pockets with millions of dollars, why, because he gat no vision or mission on how to make things better.

naijaking1:

One reason why things continue to get worse in Nigeria is because there're people who continue to defend evil. For those people, I say wait till you're in the hospital, critically sick, lying on a strectcher waiting for an operation only to discover that of all the people dressed as surgeons nobody actually ever attended a surgery residency program. Then and only after that will you understand the disease called mediocrity.

That's not true. I'm not going to start blindly defending our health care system, which we all agree is in a very dire state. however, the problem is not with manpower; its with the equipment,, facilities, remuneration, (house officer after spending close to ten years in uni, thanks to strikes and all, is earning less than an LG councilor with pry school leaving cert), and the general working condition. Once all these have been taken care of we will surely see improvement in the system.

Moreover, where did you get that info on National hospital? I hope say they no deny you employment . .lol ! Yes there is a lot of politics there, I dont deny that, but they have some very good hands there, for instance their residency program on cardiology is arguably one of the best in the country.

Tombola you are funny. I am not a politician, hence I may not be able to offer you the answers you are after. Is that hard to understand? I am not the magic pill that will make all the problem go away. I am not the messiah, however it do not mean I am not allowed to have a say on what I perceive as the failings in Nigeria. Remember that.

in essence, you are not the _chosen One! roflmao!!!

On a different note, I just got back in not to long ago, and I kinda looked back on some my posts, It is just crazy man. I don't know how you lasted so long with almost 9k of posts! I am tired of debating and arguing now, I really do not see the point. Perhaps it is best to just read stuff here and say nothing.

It is getting tiresome for me now,

Well, if you have had to deal with egomaniacs for a long period, you get used to these on here and you learn quickly to ignore a lot of them. I have this low threshold for this myself, but I learnt that even when the almighty ignore button (available as part of most chat clients) is missing, you can still ignore by not bothering to read posts by such people. It works, I can attest to that. And once you do ignore them, you find it is not as bad as you initially thought. There are actually folks on here who really do care about things that concern the masses and are here to enjoy the debate, and hope something good will come out of it all.

I already made it clear earlier that I do not believe in magic pill solutions, and I do not believe in messiahs. I believe in the power of the people, the power of the individual's vote!

Mai Suya:

That's not true. I'm not going to start blindly defending our health care system, which we all agree is in a very dire state. however, the problem is not with manpower; its with the equipment,, facilities, remuneration, (house officer after spending close to ten years in uni, thanks to strikes and all, is earning less than an LG councilor with pry school leaving cert), and the general working condition. Once all these have been taken care of we will surely see improvement in the system.

Moreover, where did you get that info on National hospital? I hope say they no deny you employment . .lol ! Yes there is a lot of politics there, I dont deny that, but they have some very good hands there, for instance their residency program on cardiology is arguably one of the best in the country.

No, I have not even thought about relocating to Africa yet, when I do, other countries may beat out naija in attracting my expertise. You know what they say about a church; the building doesn't make the church or mosque, but the people worshipping inside it. The National hospital is a national disgrace right from the time it was handed over to OBJ's personal physician to the time you have to be actively political to work there. The result, oh the result, if those doctors practice the way they do in the US, they would not only loose their licenses(if they had one), they could be criminally prosecuted.
A 14-year old boy goes in for a right lower quadrant pain, he was rushed to the OR, 6-hr after surgery he died, because the doctor said he was "very sick inside", but he walked to the hospital, had breakfast on the fateful day, and the doctor's diagnosis was very sick inside? Anyway, when attempts were made to locate the medical records, there was none, then who was the surgeon in charge of the OR team, nobody came forward, and the Hospital still stands as we speak
I can understand tribal and ethnic arguments, but denying and covering up poor medical care in Nigeria with myopic statements is very heart breaking, because they way the doctors kill that Child, is the way they could have killed any other child tomorrow because of ignorance. There're many bad other examples from this Hospital, that I can't mention all, but trust me, that's not the type of place you go to waste your medical and surgical skills after so many years of education.
I cited national hospital, because it was OBJ's short term answer to lack of reputable hospital in Nigeria 8 years ago, today, it's become a laughing stock among who-s-who in the medical community.

Kobojunkie:

Well, if you have had to deal with egomaniacs for a long period, you get used to these on here and you learn quickly to ignore a lot of them. I have this low threshold for such, myself, but I learnt even when the almighty ignore button (available as part of most chat clients) is missing, you can still ignore by not bothering to read posts by such people. It works, I can attest to that and once you do ignore them, you find it is not as bad as you initially thought. There are actually folks on here who really do care about things that concern the masses and are here to enjoy the debate and hope something good will come out of it all.

I already made it clear earlier that I do not believe in magic pill solutions, and I do not believe in messiahs. I believe in the power of the people, the power of individual votes!

You always dish it out the way it is.
If most nigerians can think the way you do, we will be flying trains by 2020.

Thank God people are begining to say that they are not what they want people to beleive they are, so, if you are not what you are making people to beleive you are, then shut up and speak no more because you are begining to stink as a pest in here, as a sore that refuses to go away.

tombola:

Thank God people are begining to say that they are not what they want people to beleive they are, so, if you are not what you are making people to beleive you are, then shut up and speak no more because you are begining to stink as a pest in here, as a sore that refuses to go away.

Your reasoning is just bizarre. I have nothing to prove to anyone here, it is your problem and your prerogative you feel that way. Not mine. Bad news though, I am pretty much STILL here.

Haha so am a pest because your views are different to mine, and you consistently refuse to answer questions posed at you? 

tombola:

A man who said he is a Lab Scientist was asked how he will improve the health system in Nigeria if made the health minister, do you know what he said, he said he has no idea, yet, he is the one spearheading the repetitive and boring statements about the bad state of our health delivery, which we all know of course, but the question is, what will u propose to be done to make it better, this same man, if appointed has no vision and the vision he has is how to line his pockets with millions of dollars, why, because he gat no vision or mission on how to make things better.

You are asking me questions based on IFs, and I told you right there and then that I may not offer you the answers you want.

So you know me very well, that you even go as far as saying I want to embezzle monies right? Even though I made it clear I wouldn't want to pick up such a position/office,  You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Below is what I posted originally about your IF-type of question.

I am not a politician. My work is to save lives and as a result, I wouldn't want to take up a post as one am afraid. Smiley

From my view, what we need is a complete overhaul of how our health care works. We need to look at the problems we face and deal with it, instead of trying to compete as one of the best in the world. If we look at each problems and provide a solution that actually solves it, then over time we may be able to draw a model that will work for us.

We need to have a few things in place - for example Record keeping, training the right people for the job, letting people have hands on experience etc.

Are these not solutions? Or at least an attempt to answer your questions? But guess what you posted as a reply instead,

tombola:


ElRufai

You have just told me you dont have a solution for the problem, ok, I hear you, so, next person to talk. bye bye, El Rufai.

How is this a way to hold a debate?    You know here is what REAL TRUTH said about you, and quite frankly I think he's got a good point.

REAL TRUTH:

@Tombola: I had said before that you re just a lousy personality! If can not get involved in an[b] intelligent discussion why forcing yourself and making baseless and insensitive assertions?[/b]

Let's not forget that you have a habit of constantly not answering questions and just "attacking the man, instead of dealing with the argument" [Ad homen]. This is evident in some of the unanswered questions posed at you in this thread and others.

How wonderful it would be if the[b] ignore function[/b] is added to the fora around here.

Just like I have chosen to ignore you and others like you, Mr Lab Scientist turned Biomedical Indigo and indomie eating homo sapien.

naijaking1:

One reason why things continue to get worse in Nigeria is because there're people who continue to defend evil. For those people, I say wait till you're in the hospital, critically sick, lying on a strectcher waiting for an operation only to discover that of all the people dressed as surgeons nobody actually ever attended a surgery residency program. Then and only after that will you understand the disease called mediocrity.

NaijaKing1.

To put things into perspective here, I am sure you would have a fair amount of what BMS do and what not. I mentioned earlier that area is not developed yet in Nigeria and all hell broke loose with a few posters.

My nephew who is a dentist came down here and recently just left. He was totally blown away by the procedures carried out here in the schools. He also came around to visit me in the lab and he was given a guided tour [after much planning and seeking permission etc] and boy, he was forced to admit we have a long way to go.

Some of the machines are just non-existent in the hospitals in naija. And the ones available are so out of date etc are just a few things he pointed out.

For me, his actions just put things into perspective for me. If people  who are considered the best in their class/field  and sent over here for an exchange program is willing to accept that we have a very long way to go. [Coupled with my own experience back in naija] There is no way, I would take the opinion of a few people here who are just defending the indefensible. Period.

tombola:

Just like I have chosen to ignore you and others like you, Mr Lab Scientist turned Biomedical Indigo and indomie eating homo sapien.

Is that the best you have? Surely you can come up with more gems. Call me ElRufai or something.

There is nothing to defend about the Nigerian healthcare system, I would challange anybody to show me the area Nigeria meets up in medicine. Is it primary care, preventive, maternal/child health, psychiatry, surgery

ElRazur

You used one persons opinion to judge in context what happens in a whole country? Where are you from realy?

Many of us did our higher degrees in the UK and we came out far far ahead of our folks who had been in the same profession like us b4, if we knew nothing or if the system we came from had been that bad, how come we exceled in greater colours than the people who had been in the system you are glorifying?

If the Nigerian system is that bad, how come the UK has been for the five past years recruiting professionals under the HSMP programme from Nigeria to work in the UK? I know a few Biomedical indomie like you who studied and had worked in Nigeria and got recruiited to the UK to go and work, I can name you hundreds of Engineers, IT goons, medical personel etc who had been recruited from the same system you think is not good and they are working well in the UK, how do you think Mr ElRufai?

Your main problem is that you have eaten too much indomie noodles and your stomach is mish mashed into a glorified and liquified dadarism which is seriously making you see less of what you should see and more of what you shouldnt see, chei, I am waiting for the day i will see you and i will give you fried yam and beans to eat to wake you out of your slumbing slumber.

tombola:

ElRazur

You used one persons opinion to judge in context what happens in a whole country? Where are you from realy?

Many of us did our higher degrees in the UK and we came out far far ahead of our folks who had been in the same profession like us b4, if we knew nothing or if the system we came from had been that bad, how come we exceled in greater colours than the people who had been in the system you are glorifying?

You either lack the ability to read and understand, or you do not know what you are talking about! I have stated before that I have visited a few hospitals in Nigeria - Go back to read and understand my previous post.
My nephew and the other one who I mentioned is a doctor are the people you and I will consider as people who know what they are talking about. To dismiss them is just silly. On top of that I also mentioned I am basing mypoint on what I have seen and combining it with their own experience. You know as we have a few medics in the family, we tend to discuss and share ideas you know.

tombola:

If the Nigerian system is that bad, how come the UK has been for the five past years recruiting professionals under the HSMP programme from Nigeria to work in the UK? I know a few Biomedical indomie like you who studied and had worked in Nigeria and got recruiited to the UK to go and work, I can name you hundreds of Engineers, IT goons, medical personel etc who had been recruited from the same system you think is not good and they are working well in the UK, how do you think Mr ElRufai?

Let me put what you are saying into perspective "Nigeria once beat Brazil and Argentina, so it must mean we are the best in the world"!

The Highly Skilled Migrant Programme is closed. It is now replaced with a point based system. Seriously, how up to date are you? India and Pakistan produces more Doctors and Engineers than we [Nigeria] do and they are having a difficult time getting in. Yes there are a few from back home who work here, but it is no longer so. The universities here are churning out more and more Doctors every now and then, so why take on people from abroad? The few people who are allowed in are HIGHLY SPECIALISED.

Now, for my profession in which you seem to have a fixation on. I should bring it to your attention that NO ONE EVER would be taken as a Biomedical scientist from Nigeria period.
Here are the reasons -The course itself needs to be taken at a University that is accredited by the Institute of Biomedical Science [IBMS]. Then you will need to do a portfolio that allows you to be Multi-disciplinary, pass this portfolio before one is allowed to be State registered.

Once you do the above, you will need to attain a Specialist portfolio - I.e you become specialised in a field. The means another 2years of training and you will need to do a Masters in between. And that is just for starters,

Now tell me if the IBMS and HPC [Health Professional Council] haven't accredited any University in Nigeria, how the heck would they [Your friends] be appointed as a Biomedical Scientist? Not having the right degree means two things, either you go and do another 2years in Uni, so as to attain the necessary background knowledge needed on a degree level or do a 3 or 4 year course in Biomedical sciences in an accredited university. So, I really do not see how one those people would have been employed from Nigeria.

Further more, Biomedical Scientist is a protected title, [Protected by the IBMS, HPC and a few bodies] This means no one is allowed to use such title unless they have gone through the standards set out that I mentioned above. So how the heck your friends who studied in Nigeria and becomes Biomedical Scientist baffles me. Please know what you are talking about next time.


I think a few of you here have confused a laboratory technician with someone who is a Biomedical scientist. Laboratory technicians are sometimes referred to as Lab. Scientist as well. It do not how ever make them a Biomedical scientist.

tombola:


Your main problem is that you have eaten too much indomie noodles and your stomach is mish mashed into a glorified and liquified dadarism which is seriously making you see less of what you should see and more of what you shouldnt see, chei, I am waiting for the day i will see you and i will give you fried yam and beans to eat to wake you out of your slumbing slumber.

Look dude, I have no problem with you. It is a debate and nothing more you see.
I am pretty much easy going. In fact, I will offer you the hand of friendship around these fora.