Would you let your child be taught maths, science, literature, etc in Igbo? Some Ghanaian minister is suggesting that English instruction hinders locals in education. Would you be okay with sending your child to school that does that in Igbo with English subject presented as a foreign language?

this was done in Ife in the 70s or 80s. A selection of primary or secondary school students were educated in Yoruba as a primary language in all subjects.

why are you folks taking topics that relate to the southwest (Yoruba) and pretending it's Igbo, then pretending issues and problems found in Igboland, were Yoruba?

what type and level of deception is this?

and yes, your "dredging/new orleans canal thread, is based on suggestions by some quarters, for inland parts of the southwest (such as Akure) to be connected to the sea.

good luck with your sneakiness!

I think you're actually confused.

I think you believe nobody knows what you're doing.

That's called schizophrenia, a personal issue that has nothing to do with random internet posters. Get that checked out, otherwise there's nothing to discuss here.

Resorting to insults when you are caught lying, is called insanity,

---

I think Igbo language instruction could work but I don't know if the people are willing to send their kids to schools that teach such, unfortunately.

I'm torn on this, really.

ezeagu:
Would you let your child be taught maths, science, literature, etc in Igbo? Some Ghanaian minister is suggesting that English instruction hinders locals in education. Would you be okay with sending your child to school that does that in Igbo with English subject presented as a foreign language?

Yes, I would.

Math and Science could be taught in Igbo.

Then there would be:

Igbo Literature (one of the ways in which the rich culture of "Atutu Inu" could be preserved)
English Literature
Igbo Language and
English Language as additional subjects

I would certainly send my kids to such a school. One thing we Africans don't understand is that when kids are taught in their mother tongue, the kids tend to do much better in school. It will also help to bring about more indigenous inventions, instead of us having to copy the whites all the time. Look at all the developed countries, and you'll see they all have one thing in common; they guard their languages jealously and ensure that their indigenous language is the language of instruction in schools. Examples of these countries are; France, Germany, Japan, China, isreal, USA, etc.
It can certainly be achieved in Igbo land, all it will take, is a dedicated and visionary leader to implement it. Mind you that a lot of Ndi Igbo (Ndi okachamalu), who have been brain-washed, into believing that another man's language is superior to theirs, will vigorously kick against it.
In all honesty, black people truly have a long way to go.

Honestly, with the way Igbo people treat "Igbo language", I have reservations about sending my children to a school to be taught math and science in Igbo. From my observation, Igbo people seem to struggle in reconciling Igbo with other languages (I'll use English as a benchmark from here on in). This struggle causes me to believe that a school that provides instruction in Igbo will attempt to default toward mirroring instruction in English even down to terminology and almost with a one-for-one correlation. As I see it, that simply is not the same as teaching children to think about math and sciences in Igbo.

However, it's not to say that instruction in Igbo is not doable. In my opinion, it is more that doable. In fact, that's what we're doing in our own household, albeit with Ngwa. My siblings and little cousins like math and sciences, and they expressed a desire to want to talk about math and sciences in Ngwa. Not for any serious reasons, but simply because they believed it would be cool. Of course, we already knew that Ngwa as it is doesn't have all the necessary lexicon for modern math and sciences, but we decided that we'd move forward anyway and just coin new lexicon as was necessary. It hasn't proven all that difficult, actually. Ngwa already has a recognizable pattern for conjugation and word creation as well as a useful syntax that we could capitalize for arithmetic. So, we simply did. We still have a ways to go, but it's more than doable.

Finally, the most significant thing, in my opinion, is that we avoided transliterations when coining new lexicon (i.e. no one-to-one correlation between Ngwa and English equivalents). Again, that wasn't all that difficult. But, I can't say the same for Igbo instruction. If my observations are anything to go by, transliterations are where Igbo people will ultimately screw up in their attempt to provide instruction in Igbo language.

It just makes me feel that my children (whenever I have any) would be better off learning math and sciences at home in their native Ngwa as opposed to going to a school to be taught math and science in Igbo.

Meanwhile on a lighter note, I heard that we now have Igbo scrabble.

ChinenyeN:
Honestly, with the way Igbo people treat "Igbo language", I have reservations about sending my children to a school to be taught math and science in Igbo. From my observation, Igbo people seem to struggle in reconciling Igbo with other languages (I'll use English as a benchmark from here on in). This struggle causes me to believe that a school that provides instruction in Igbo will attempt to default toward mirroring instruction in English even down to terminology and almost with a one-for-one correlation. As I see it, that simply is not the same as teaching children to think about math and sciences in Igbo.

However, it's not to say that instruction in Igbo is not doable. In my opinion, it is more that doable. In fact, that's what we're doing in our own household, albeit with Ngwa. My siblings and little cousins like math and sciences, and they expressed a desire to want to talk about math and sciences in Ngwa. Not for any serious reasons, but simply because they believed it would be cool. Of course, we already knew that Ngwa as it is doesn't have all the necessary lexicon for modern math and sciences, but we decided that we'd move forward anyway and just coin new lexicon as was necessary. It hasn't proven all that difficult, actually. Ngwa already has a recognizable pattern for conjugation and word creation as well as a useful syntax that we could capitalize for arithmetic. So, we simply did. We still have a ways to go, but it's more than doable.

Finally, the most significant thing, in my opinion, is that we avoided transliterations when coining new lexicon (i.e. no one-to-one correlation between Ngwa and English equivalents). Again, that wasn't all that difficult. But, I can't say the same for Igbo instruction. If my observations are anything to go by, transliterations are where Igbo people will ultimately screw up in their attempt to provide instruction in Igbo language.

It just makes me feel that my children (whenever I have any) would be better off learning math and sciences at home in their native Ngwa as opposed to going to a school to be taught math and science in Igbo.

You're even giving them the benefit of the doubt that they would even attempt to transliterate the English words, they'd probably just 'Igboise' the words and move on, like aritmetiki, I'm sure we've seem many examples.

What are some of your mathematical/scientific Ngwa terms?

Ezeagu, you do have a point with the Igbonizing phenomenon. Perhaps you're right. I may be giving them the benefit of the doubt.

As for the some of the terms we use in our house.. we've got expressions like:

amumwhne - science[s] (lit. study of things concerning.. .. you can then tack on whatever you need afterward)
ie. amumwhne ndhu (biology/life sciences), amumwhne owa (planetary sciences), amumwhne ogugu (mathematics), etc.

okuku - radiation (as in physics)

okara ... la - how we express ratios (lit. parts ... per)
ie. okara ogu la nnu (40 parts per 400 or simply 40 to 400 or 40:400)

la - same 'la' in 'okara .. la', except we tend to think of it as special, because we can use it alone with ohu isne [100] to express percentages
ie. isne l'ohu isne (5 per 100 .. ie. 5 percent)

That's just a few. The scope is larger than this.

This is why I believe Igbo people should really start focusing on their respective lects now. As a culture, Igbo has limited Izugbe, but for whatever reason, still tries to hold it up as an example of what Igbo language can and cannot accomplish. That's just backward, in my opinion. If we know Izugbe is limited, then let us not hold it up as an example of what the language can and cannot accomplish. Instead, we should hold up the lects because their versatility is well-attested and their lexical growth is non-systematic.

I've said it before and I will always say it again. The lects stand a better chance of development than Izugbe, and those lectal developments further stand a better chance of being accepted and implemented within said lectal communities. In fact, the growth of Izugbe can only truly be measured by the growth of the lects. That is the sort of linguistic situation Igbo people have created for themselves. If we keep measuring Igbo by the an artificial dialect which we actively and continuously inhibit, then we remain responsible for facilitating the death of our own lects, Izugbe and Igbo as a whole. That's why we don't use Izugbe as a measuring stick in our household.

Instruction of math and science is entirely possible, even in Izugbe, but probably more so in our various let's.

4x = -2 (5 - 10) * 3x

The above, useless, completely random, algebraic equation is an example of what I mean. This equation is fully solvable in our house, in Ngwa.

Honestly, I don't believe lexical development has to be as difficult as some make it out to be. It simply takes time. We don't need "Igbo experts", just people who desire and actively use their lects to understand and explain their world, even in their various professional fields. Seriously, it wasn't "experts" that created our lects. It was experience and endeavors into different activities, and explaining those experiences in the language we knew. If we want to continue that, then Igbo has to be the language we know. Anyone who says they want to see their speech develop, doesn't have any excuse for not using their speech to understand and explain their world, in my opinion.

Hmmmm! "Anyone who says they want to see their speech develop, doesn't have any excuse for not using their speech to understand and explain their world, in my opinion." @Chinenye, This quote from you just got me thinking.
Anyway, I believe I would have done much better in Maths early on, if the mathematical terms were explained in Igbo. Heck I would have done much better in all my courses, period!
@Chinenye, I am eager to know if y'all learn Physics and Chemistry in Igbo too. I really think your home must be an interesting one, in a good way though.
Secondly, I suppose your signature is in Ngwa and I tried figuring if out, all to no avail. Do you mind interpreting it for me?

My signature translates as "let me tell you all something."

As for physics and chemistry, there isn't anyone in our household with professional knowledge in those two fields. So, I wouldn't say we learn physics and chemistry, but we do try to talk about the two in Ngwa. These are modern times where some physics and chemistry concepts are general knowledge and do not require extensive knowledge of the profession. So, that's basically the level we discuss them at, though we do try to learn more. Physics we call amumwhne ewhneri uwa. Chemistry we call amumwhne elo. We can refer to and talk about different concepts like mass (okputukpu) and chemical bonds (mgbakpu elo), but not as professionals. We simply don't have that knowledge.

Radoillo, you might appreciate this. Ezeagu, you too. This is on the topic of math. I'll try not to make it too long and boring.

Simple arithmetic in Ngwa was never a problem in our house, but finding a way to comfortably express negative values was. I'm not saying we couldn't express negative values at all. We could. Mathematically, all was fine. We just could not express it in a way that didn't seem clumsy to us (in terms of terminology). That clumsiness quickly went away after our proto-Igbo discussion here on NL. Radoillo, I'm sure you remember the pattern or lack there of in the numerals 1 to 10 and how 9 was our 'problem child'. Well, we were talking about that at home a few months after our discussion here on NL and someone postulated that based on the tone structure for the word for 9, we may have been looking at a pretty obvious contraction:

idi* te nanu - 10 'te' 1
*using the proto-Igbo sound approximations to reconstruct numeral 10.

According to the postulation, [idi te nanu], [idi te oli], [idi te olu], would all contract and become i'tenanu, i'toli, i'tolu, respectively. Contraction among the numerals is fully attested, so this didn't sound far fetched when it was suggested. We then decided followed the logic to wherever it would lead. That logic gave us ten [idi] and one [nanu, etc.], all that was left was to explain 'te'. We couldn't explain 'te', or at least not attest to its full meaning, but we approximated it's function based on an oral tradition. I'm not going to go into the oral tradition. I'll just extract from the relevant parts (the parts where they used math). In the oral tradition, they did 'Old Stick Arithmetic' (it doesn't have an actual name.. that's just what I'm unofficially calling it). In 'Old Stick Arithmetic', a numerical value is essentially the sum of two columns that cancel each other out, leaving whatever remains to be the actual realizable value. The function of 'te' can thus be seen in one of these two columns.

ex. idi te ite [10 te 5].. we'll say the 'te' column is red and the non-'te'/regular column is black.
I I I I I I I I I I [idi; 10 in the non-'te'/regular column]
I I I I I . . . . . [ite; 5 in the 'te' column]

Non-'te'/regular and 'te' columns will have to cancel each other out until only one column remains, giving the actual realizable value. In the instance of [idi te ite] that realizable value equals 5. If we switch it, we get the following wonderful occurrence.

I I I I I . . . . . [ite; 5 in the non-'te'/regular column]
I I I I I I I I I I [idi; 10 in the 'te' column]

The actual realizable value is now 'te 5' (similar to 'te 1' in the construction for 9). We were kind of mind-blown at home when the logic brought us to this point. We basically had an answer to our problem of expressing negative values. For it to really make sense, try not to think of 'te' as a verb. Imagine that 'te' simply refers to the 'te' column. In essence, think of it as a sort of noun/reference terminology. So, just as how, if we take 'aka abuo' and 'abuo' qualifies 'aka' to a value of 2, so also will 'abuo' qualify 'te' to a value of 2, giving us 'te abuo' or simply, -2. It was almost immediately unanimous that we would use 'te' as our negative marker. This allowed us to stop using 'ngwefu' and rather leave 'ngwefu' for the activity of subtraction itself. Our problem of expressing negative values was gone just like that.

We really have to give credit to our indigenous philosophy that emphasizes dualism. That dualism gave us the two-column nature of arithmetic, according to the oral tradition. It's very likely that our ancestors understood negative values, but maybe not in the way we may be inclined to think of them now. In their time, they likely saw both columns as just values, which would resolve to a single value. Nonetheless, the idea of having a 'deficit' value was probably well-understood because of our philosophy of dualism. We ought to give our ancestors more credit.

Anyhow, after that, addition, subtraction, multiplication and division with negative values was no longer an issue. In fact, it got easier, because we were able to leverage the simplicity of 'te' in the natural syntax. This gave us cleaner and more concise speech, with regards to mathematical calculations.

ChinenyeN, what kind of Jimmy Neutron Ngwa household is that self?

^^ ChinenyeN! Mind blown!

I love what you and your folks are doing. I'm copying and saving this somewhere.

Thanks!

Ezeagu, no Jimmy Neutron household, abeg. We just want to make Ngwa our main mode of communication as much as possible. O gwula.

Radoillo, no problem. Just imagine how we felt when we stitched it all together like that. It was an excellent evening.

It's official. The more I think about it, the stronger I get in my resolution that I will teach my children Old Stick Arithmetic in Ngwa early on. Old Stick Arithmetic works well for values of relatively small magnitude. Perfect for young children to use and learn fundamental arithmetic skills. They'll likely be able to add, subtract, multiply and divide before they ever even start primary school. My excitement is building just thinking about it. Am I the only one who gets it? The implication of all this? Not just for math, but science in general. Chai. I won't lie. I kinda feel like I am.

I must go do amumwhne things now to calm down...

LMAO!

@ Radoillo, what part got you?
I scrolled to the bottom of the thread and wondered what's funny? Then I read the part of ChinenyeN's post about having to calm down. I could see it in my minds eye; ChinenyeN all pent up, pacing up and down and "seeing" only 1 way to calm himself.

@ ChinenyeN, kudos to you.I love your passion. I have learnt from your posts on this thread. Please, keep sharing your findings.

Phut:
@ Radoillo, what part got you?
I scrolled to the bottom of the thread and wondered what's funny? Then I read the part of ChinenyeN's post about having to calm down. I could see it in my minds eye; ChinenyeN all pent up, pacing up and down and "seeing" only 1 way to calm himself.

@ ChinenyeN, kudos to you.I love your passion. I have learnt from your posts on this thread. Please, keep sharing your findings.

Yep, that's what got me.

mtcheww, unu hafu m aka. I've recollected myself now, hehe.

I wonder if anyone here would be interested in developing instructional material in Igbo, as a thought exercise. I mean, how do we imagine instruction in Igbo would even be? Better yet, let me make it personal...

1. How would you implement instruction in Igbo?
2. What sort of terminology would you coin?
3.How would you structure the curriculum for the different grade levels?
4. How would you even structure the grade levels themselves (i.e. primary, secondary, etc.)? Would you leave things as they are or would you change them?
5. If you were to make changes to the grade level system, then what changes would those be?

For this exercise, imagine you are among those in charge of a private school in Igboland, and that your committee has been charged with providing full instruction in Igbo. I don't expect anyone to have 100% of their answers for this sort of exercise. Just take it one point at a time. I'm simply interested in hearing what any one of you might have to say, even if you think your thoughts are incomplete.

Also, no rush. My question is loaded. So, take all the time you need. But don't feel as though you need to make your thoughts as complete as possible. In this instance, first ideas are more important to me than completeness. Completeness can come later.

Well, I think starting with people in JSS1 would work in most cases when it comes to implementing Igbo nationally. If it's a private Igbo language school I would start with Primary 1 and JSS1. I would make the status of English a 'major' foreign language that's compulsory to SS3 and take Igbo language and literature and fill the space English/literature now takes. Under all this, I would offer orientation/lessons after school to get pupils familiarised with terms in both Igbo and English. The terms I would make up are mostly mathematical and scientific term since most grammar and literature (olilo udaume, iduazi, etc) have Igbo terms thanks to the existing Igbo subject.

Lesser actions would be signage in Igbo, communication emails/fax/website would be available mainly in Igbo. Also in English lessons children would only speak English.

Alright, thanks Ezeagu. Three themes from your post catch my attention.

1. 'Foreign Language' studies
--- English is Compulsory in SS3

2. 'Igbo' or 'Igbo Literature' studies
--- Displace current status/position of English as a core subject

3. Policy (if I'm understanding you correctly)
--- Signage in Igbo
--- Communications in Igbo
--- Official school website in Igbo

Alright. A few questions...

1. ESL
--- Why SS3? I'm curious. It's not that I disagree. I also noticed you said, compulsory. Does that mean you would also have non-compulsory English before SS3?

2. Igbo Literature (what would you even call this in Igbo?) Studies.
--- 1.A: When exactly does this start, in your view? Primary 1, JSS1, etc.?
--- 1.B: To the best of my knowledge, Igbo has no literary tradition. Where then will the material for these studies come from? Or, better yet, will there be an effort on the part of the private school to promote an Igbo literary tradition, for the sake of these studies?

2. Policy (I like this one especially)
--- 1.A: I take it that the on-campus/school policy will be that faculty, staff and students interact primarily in Igbo. I'll even extend this to the school's interaction/correspondence with parents. Now, my question here is this... is this a policy that will be written down as official or more of a lead-by-example type of thing? If written down and official, would it also be enforceable? If so, how?

ChinenyeN:
Alright. A few questions...

1. ESL
--- Why SS3? I'm curious. It's not that I disagree. I also noticed you said, compulsory. Does that mean you would also have non-compulsory English before SS3?

2. Igbo Literature (what would you even call this in Igbo?) Studies.
--- 1.A: When exactly does this start, in your view? Primary 1, JSS1, etc.?
--- 1.B: I'm thinking now, and to the best of my knowledge, Igbo has no literary tradition. Where will the material for these studies come from? Or, better yet, will there be an effort on the part of the private school to promote an Igbo literary tradition, for the sake of these studies?

2. Policy (I like this one especially)
--- 1.A: I take it that the on-campus/school policy will be that faculty, staff and students interact primarily in Igbo. I'll even extend this to the school's interaction/correspondence with parents. Now, my question here is this... is this a policy that will be written down as official or more of a lead-by-example type of thing? If written down and official, would it also be enforceable? If so, how?

I meant that English would a compulsory foreign, or better yet, secondary language till SS3, not just in SS3. I think there's already French being taught in some secondary schools.

There's just a few books and plays in Igbo which I think could help with Igbo literature, I think oral stories, fables and proverbs can be written down for study, maybe a better name like Igbo Literary and Oral studies. Igbo language and Igbo lit/oral are separate classes. A good amount of the oral/lit class would be to encourage students to study oral stories and write down their own stories.

Igbo language class is throughout primary and secondary, while Igbo lit/oral comes in at JSS1, the songs, riddles, and so on learnt in primary school Igbo language carries on into secondary as Igbo lit/oral and matures there on. In Igbo language secondary they'll be writing essays, learning vocabulary, comparing dialects, and more 'technical' work, and lit/oral is more creative. In Igbo language there can even be translation tasks given out which will not only help with the lit/oral class, but produce people who are able to translate all kinds of non-Igbo documents into Igbo.

I think communication between parents can be optional between their language and Igbo, because some parents and guardians may not be Igbo at all. I don't want to recreate that era in which students were hounded, whipped and abused into dropping "vernacular" and just giving it an Igbo face this time, for one, teachers in Igbo lands, in whatever type of school, communicate with themselves in Igbo, some even with the kids in Igbo today, so I think finding Igbo-speaking staff and orientating them into just Igbo speech would not only be simple, but would be easier for the staff to a certain extent (as in apart from teaching them new vocabulary). For the children, again, most Igbo children in Igboland at least speak Igbo to themselves, in all types of schooling. Creating an environment where everything around you is Igbo language, including your other classes, it would be difficult for me to see a need to 'enforce' Igbo, although avoiding Engligbo would be the main task. This is assuming this school is in Igbo lands.

I see. Thanks for expanding on that, Ezeagu. I appreciate it. So, here's what I'm getting.

Grade levels remain the same. P -> JSS -> SSS.
ESL (English as a Second Language) will be compulsory up until SS3.
Igbo Language starts from P1 and continues on through all grade levels.
Igbo Literature starts from JSS1 (not bad)
Enforcing communication in Igbo may not even be necessary, since the school pretty much immerses everyone in that atmosphere.

Yes, it is safe to assume that the school will be on Igbo lands.

All in all, I like these thoughts. My focus comes down hard on the Igbo Literature. I'll have to gather my thoughts on that and see where the logic leads me. Anyway, I feel that I might want to augment this thought exercises a bit. I'll add one new thing:

1. It is safe to assume that there are other, independently run private schools with similar missions as the one you are in charge of. All these independently run private schools are in Igbo lands, obviously in different culture-zones.

Beyond this, people are free to augment the context in a way that makes sense to them. I don't require strict adherence. Just one's thoughts, and it may include redefining the context. Whatever works in people's minds to help them convey their thoughts in this thread.