The testimony (shahada) endorsed by mainstream orthodox Muslims are incorrect. The testimony one is forced to give before posting on this section is not Islamic.

As a side note, there is no need for a public testimony and reception of certificates upon embracing Islam. This practice among mainstream Muslims is baseless, constituting to show off and hypocrisy. Being a Muslim transcend uttering a few words in the midst of a congregation. It is a special relationship between man and God, no human witness is required (Quran 4:79 6:19 29:52).

Quran 4:79
What comes to you of good is from God, but what comes to you of evil, is from yourself. And We have sent you, to the people as a messenger, and sufficient is God as Witness.

The shahadatyn (testimonies) of mainstream Muslims is baseless and the only formal testimony found in the scripture, required of the audience to make is “There is no god except He(God)”. This is a universal and timeless testimony with several variants in the Qur’an (3:18, 6:19 & 20:98). Not even once throughout the Qur’an is “And Muhammad is His messenger” coupled with this testimony about the oneness of God. Is this a coincidence?

This is because Islam is a God centered system, not God + messenger (others). All commemorations and veneration must be focused on God alone, paying no special homage to anyone alongside just as the messengers did (72:18, 20). Those who cannot do this fail a crucial test.

Quran 39:45
And when God is mentioned alone, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion, but when those other than Him are mentioned, they rejoice.

Their persistence in reverence and veneration of other figures whenever they invoke God leave them dissatisfied when God alone is reverenced; a typical trait of idol worshippers. And thus, the end up associating these figures to God(12:106). That was the very problem the Meccan pagans had. They recognized the sovereignty of God but to mention God without adding other figures wasn’t acceptable to them (29:62 63 65).

Of course, the pioneer Muslims did bear witness to the messengership of Muhammad but this wasn’t another formal testimony of faith coupled with that of the oneness of God to be stated on converting to Islam or during rites. It was no special than bearing witness to the humanity of Muhammad or certain events occurring in their time. In confirmation of this, the Qur’an narrates to us stories of notable conversion to Islam, serving as examples:

Quran 26:46-48
So the magicians fell down in prostration. They said, “We have believed in the Lord of the worlds, the Lord of Moses and Aaron.”

Quran 27:44
She was told, “Enter the palace.” But when she saw it, she thought it was a body of water and uncovered her shins. He said, “Indeed, it is a palace made smooth with glass.” She said, “My Lord, indeed I have wronged myself, and I submit with Solomon to Allah, Lord of the worlds.”

Notice that the Queen and the Magicians didn’t venerate or pay special homage to Solomon or Moses while accepting Islam. All they did was simply declare their submission to God, period.

Additionally, why testify of only Muhammad and neglect other messengers? Paying homage to Muhammad whilst neglecting other messengers constitute giving Muhammad more distinction than the others, a blatant violation of the Qur’an(3:84, 46:9).

Quran 46:9
Say, “I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear Warner.”

Quran 3:84
Say, “We have believed in God and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him“

Note that these Verses set a format for believers to declare their position or belief, there is no special mention of one messenger and omission of another messenger in the words, hence no distinction among the messengers.

Unfortunately mainstream Muslims have strayed far from Islamic ideals. In their bid to implement Qur’an + Sunna(the latter often negating the former), they introduced baseless and sometimes polytheistic elements into the creed. Their persistence upon testifying to the messengership of Muhammad not only misses the Quranic theme of monotheism but contradict common reason.

This is because in order to testify or bear witness, you must have seen what you testify on. For instance, if the court wants someone to testify, they want someone that witnessed the event occur, not someone who learnt it from another person. So, to testify that Muhammad is God‘s messenger today while you have neither seen nor heard him is retarded.

In the 21st century, we cannot testify to the messengership of a man in the 7th century, we can only accept his claim based on present proofs. God is the One we can bear witness to, the Omnipresent and Everlasting.

As the ulamas(clerics) couldn’t get evidence from the Qur’an for their testimony of faith, they sought an illogical extrapolation, patching a phrase (Muhammad is the messenger of God) from a sentence(48:29) to the testimony of oneness of God from other verses to derive two testimony instead of one;

“There is no god but God and Muhammad is His messenger”

As typical, they supported their stand with fabricated Hadith.

Clearly, they did this out of the misconception that one must accept Muhammad to embrace Islam. They failed to realize that Islam did not start with Muhammad, Muhammad‘s message only confirm the previous ones and not nullify it. They ought to realize that not everyone is chanced to meet Muhammad or confirm his messengership and hence such people are still Muslims provided they believe in God and maintain righteousness. They introduce another name into the creed, sanctifying and venerating, thereby creating division among all believers suppose to be united by their testimony of oneness of God, regardless of their scriptures.

Qur’an 2:62
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans – those who believed in God and the Last Day and did righteousness – will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve

Thankfully, we have the Qur’an in our hands and it clearly teaches that the testimony of GOD, Angels and knowledgeable men is:

“There is no god but He (God)” (Quran 3:18)

No more, no less. This completely rubbishes the claims and Hadith that “Muhammad is the messenger” of God is part of the testimony of Islam, inscripted on everything in Heaven.

Quran 3:18
God bears witness that there is no god but He, and (so do) the angels and those possessed of knowledge, maintaining His creation with justice; there is no god but He, the Mighty, the Wise.

So what is your take on this matter? Make the testimonies or not to make? Did God forget to mention Muhammad in all the testimonies of His oneness throughout Qur’an? Do we know better than God? Is God‘s testimony enough or not?

GOD IS ENOUGH FOR ME.

Quran 39:36
Is not God sufficient for His servant? And they seek to frighten you with those besides Him; and whomsoever Allah makes err, there is no guide for him.



https://flamesoftruth./2014/10/25/testimonies-to-make-or-not-to-make/

mainstream, upper river, orthodox, orthopedic ...me I no understand grammar o

I didn't read all your posts, just read the first 3-5 lines but the little my brain could decipher from there is that the tag being attached to the profile of those who wana post in the Islam section is wrong right?

...but your last post is out of line. taking Muhammad out of the shahaadah? crap!

Crap.

Quran tells you to only say; "There is no god except God", and you dare contemplate about Muhammad?

Quran 37:35-36
For when it was said unto them, There is no god save God, they were scornful. And said: Shall we forsake our gods for a mad poet?

humm, I thought op was getting better. Inna lilai waina ilai rojiun

Perhaps, you could see they dont even want to engage you bcus they know your mindset is programmed. I didnt know i commented so i dont think it is necessary to do so now. Bro, i swear your wasting ur TIME.

What is the difference between this guy's kufr and that of Abu Jahl and Abu Lahab? They both denied the Prophet hood, Messenger hood and ahadith of Nabi salallahu alayhi wa ahli. Well I normally don't dialogue with kuffar but I have to post this for the sake of esteemed viewer:

This is a verse describing public declaration of shahadah

[63:1] Al-Munāfiqūn-الْمُنَافِقُوْن
" (In the Name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Ever-Merciful)
When the hypocrites come to you, they say: ‘We bear witness that you are certainly the Messenger of Allah.’ And Allah knows that surely you are His Messenger. But Allah bears witness that undoubtedly the hypocrites are liars. "

# There are social and political benefits of public declaration.

^

Honestly i feel sad for him. The way he's threading will eventually land him in the FULL company of Kufr. That's why i cant take his silly "reform" serious.


Yea, i notice you barely talk to non-muslims. So do you consider this Quraniyun kafir?.

If he had only rejected some ahadith narrations, that would be fine. But he threw the baby out with water. That makes his case execrable and irrelevant.

^ Quraniyyun or whatever they call themselves are kuffar. And no doubt the guy is a kafir unless he repent his kufr ideology.

^^^

Na'am. I like the fact that you didn't shy away to say this. I felt ashamed to say that cus I don't think i ever came across ijma of kufr on them.

I refrained from saying that cus at some point he seems to show love and affection for Quran. But then, he gets too close to not just non Muslims but the craziest of kufar and made them his awliya and, would go to any length to backbite Muslims before them.