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C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by henryexe: 12:02pm On Jun 06, 2009
I am a CSC student in one of our univerisities last semester we were taught C++. I'm kind of getting into it nw but having probs with GUI programming though. But I am hearing C++ does not sell in the market anymore that JAVA rules. pls wat do i do? i dont want to be left behind after my year in school. should i forget C++ and go for JAVA? Plz i want unbiased details on the pros n cons of both languages I have googled but what i get is biased comments,
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dueal(m): 12:35pm On Jun 06, 2009
@poster. It's really nice to hear u were introduced to the C++ language. From wat u posted it sounds like u r only intrested in programming just for finding a job as a programmer as soon as u leave school. That's really short-sighted if i might add. Well, to give an unbiased answer it's true that at one time in nigeria java was the in-thing to get a job, now C# is gain grounds, far back Fortran was, then Pascal and on. The truth is in this country software development companys follow the most advertised language without really considering deeply if it's appropriate 4 the job. You might switch to learn java and by the time u r through learning its ever changing in's and out's C# will b the most demanded or even Ruby. My advice is start with wat ever language u r confortable with then after learning that one learn another then another and another. Don't be in a hurry just because u need a job. If ur onions are good when the opportunity comes u'll be the on calling the shots. If u need my recomendation on a language to start with i'll advice u stick to C++ since u don't show any sign that u hate it.it's the most used language for commercial software development overseas, it has the most available libraries, and the efficiency of a system level language. Believe me,learn C++ then learning any other language after it will be a breeze. If u need a good beginners tutorial on C++ go to www.softlookup.com. Good luck!

1 Like

Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by henryexe: 12:45pm On Jun 06, 2009
@dueal

Thanks, i see u are a C++ fan no doubt,  I am still putting my best into C++. But developing a GUI for my C++ program scares me takes lots of code to call up a window well no pain no gain so i am steadfast in my study. talking about C# is it compactible with C++ just like C is?
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dueal(m): 1:17pm On Jun 06, 2009
@henry.exe. C# isn't a superset of C++ or C. It's not code compatible with either because it has a different philosophy on how a program should run on the system(though i'll say the syntax is about 75% similar to C++).  But if u use .NET technology u can have quite similar feel because in .NET programs written in any of the .NET supported languages(VC++,VC#,VJ#,VB) can communicate with each other and share resources. If u need a gui library try wxWidgets. I knw it seems u write more code just to get even a blank window on screen but u'll be a better CS by it in d long-run.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by Bossman(m): 2:51am On Jun 07, 2009
The key thing is to learn software design principles. Just use whatever language is being taught at your school. Once you have a solid understanding of software design/engineering principles, it should not take a lot to use those principles in whatever language you end up using professionally, be it Java, C#, C++, etc.

1 Like

Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by solomon201(m): 10:24am On Jun 08, 2009
@ Poster

You heard right. JAVA rules!!! though C++ teaches u better memory management but who cares? these days memory is cheap and abundant. Again most ppl say JAVA is slow but i tell u every passing day hardware performance increases n the so called slow pace is disappearing. I think the future holds little or nothing for C++ even with a new standard (C++0x) to be released soon.

So Poster, u should switch to JAVA in my opinion, it is easier, rules is Web development, Networking and it gives more jobs than C++.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by henryexe: 5:12pm On Jun 08, 2009
Thanks all i think i have made up my mind on which way 2 go,
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dammytosh: 8:47am On Jun 09, 2009
@Poster
This interview with Bjarne Stroustrup (The guy who designed CPP from scratch) in 1998 with IEEE might interest you before you waste your time learning CPP.

http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/I_did_it_for_you_all.

It is amazing how we follow trends blindly . Not our fault any way undecided


My Advice is that you learn a language that can make you work on both web apps and windows app.

-My Opinion
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dueal(m): 11:17am On Jun 09, 2009
@everyone.if Stroustrup said all of that then i'm not surprised (cleaver f**k)lol! There's no perfection in generality of any sort cause perfection comes with specialization. According to the interview,stroustrup is against using the OOP style for very large systems, that's a real minus for languages that are fully OOP supportive like Java ,C#. It all boils down to what engineering of whatever form is(i.e Cutting Corners). Like i said in an earlier post learn one language,then another and another(don't b Biased). And put some thought before creating a system with whatever language.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by henryexe: 4:30pm On Jun 09, 2009
@ dammy

I read the article I am surprised are u sure thats not fake well a langage that will allow both window and web apps in your opinion is ?

I hear a lot about PHP, Perl can they really match JAVA?
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dueal(m): 5:37pm On Jun 09, 2009
@henry.exe.really glad u r getting enthusiastic about programming. Stroustrup's interviews are always hilarious but he's not the first to admit the facts about C++ not being the cleanest language ever created. If u've started rethinking learning some other language like java U can google what he thinks about java. Welcome to a programmers life. Every language was created with a philosophy of what the designer think a programming language should be and since we are only human there's always a diversity of thought. If u want my recommendation start by learning HTML-JAVASCRIPT-VB-C++-JAVA-C#-C-ADA-COMMON-LISP.u should be through b4 u grad God willing. Also research Design Patterns, Agile and Extreme programming, and UML(unified modelling language). I'm always moved to help a newbie anytime.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by Kobojunkie: 7:43pm On Jun 09, 2009
@Poster, right now, C++ programmers actually hold a high place in the market. From Gaming to financials, C++ programmers are considered for a large number of jobs and they are paid more than there peers skilled in other languages like JAVA or C# are. If you are already working on C++, I would advice that you stop looking at trends and focus on learning all you can of the language. Because once you master one, you will have no problem switching to another in less than a month.


You mentioned you are having problems with GUI programming in C++, I will however tell you that GUI developers are in high demand in high industries. Iam currently working on improving my C++ skills, especially my GUI skills for gaming as well as financials, medical graphing needs, and would advice anyone already in there to stay the course.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dueal(m): 8:04pm On Jun 09, 2009
@kobojunkie. Glad someone in here agrees with me. That's wat i've been trying to tell the poster 4 the past week or 2 even though i've been trying not to make it obvious i'm pushing it in his face. Keep with C++ since u r not hating it.once ur done or while u've covered around 35% of the language moving to any related language will b a work n d park believe me. It worked 4 me and i'm not regreting making that choice a long time back when every obi was jumping to java. Look beyond the trend. Right nw i've got c++/c,java,c#,python,lua,javascript,and i'm getting Ada 2005 under my belt. Plus i'm a game programmer. I remember one article on what Stroustrup(the c++ creator) thinks about java programmers,in he's word 'they act like plumbers, blind to the basics for efficiency'. Do i have to plead that we stop running towards the 'moon' when the 'sun' is d other way.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dammytosh: 9:18am On Jun 10, 2009
@Poster

It is not fake,i once came across the issue of the IEEE magazine where the interview was granted.

I dont want you to be confused on deciding which language to choose but if you are targeting NIGERIAN MARKET (which you will likely do), without necessarily speaking too much grammer, CPP is definitely out of it.

I write CPP, Pascal, Cobol etc very well besides my production languages but I will advise you to invest more in Java, PHP or the Dot Net Technology and less in CPP if u have to.  (Just an advice nothing else)

As a matter of fact, any language you learn  and master very well will take you to places.


About your GUI programming, if i read your mind, you mean Developing Windows Form Based Application (maybe to interact with a database) with CPP ?
If i am right, then CPP looks like using AK47 to hunt a cockroach.

-My Opinion
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by henryexe: 10:46am On Jun 10, 2009
@ dammy

Dats my worry there are little or no demand for C++ developers in the Nigerian market and i dont see this changing in few years time. But i got luv for this language, I am scared of learning another language now added to CPP cos i fear i might start mixing up the syntax,  rily dont know for now, kind of confused.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dammytosh: 11:20am On Jun 10, 2009
henry.exe:

@ dammy

Dats my worry there are little or no demand for C++ developers in the Nigerian market and i dont see this changing in few years time. But i got luv for this language, I am scared of learning another language now added to CPP cos i fear i might start mixing up the syntax,  rily dont know for now, kind of confused.

You don't have to be confused. The power of a programmer lies in his ability to[b] solve problems[/b], fashion a way out of tight corners (design algorithms) etc not necessarily the language.

Mixing up syntax is not a strange thing. It reduces by the day with experience, I av written C# code in my VB.NET codes several times especially when i had to switch between an existing C# project to another VB project but thanks to VS IDE smiley . The good news is that being able to cope with different languages and their weird syntaxes makes u a better and stronger programmer.

Best of Luck.

- My Opinion.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by solomon201(m): 1:29pm On Jun 10, 2009
Thats true The 9ja market is filled with .NET n JAVA,

@ dammy
I have really thougt about it but cant get why C++ does not sell in the 9ja market despite the fact that its been around in the IT world for quite a while compared to the others.

Any answers?
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by fxmaxony(m): 2:19pm On Jun 10, 2009
@henry.exe, Continue paying good attention to what you are being given in school, there is a way you can grab the selling skill in programming when you are off school, some do get exceptional programming experience here, talkless of when you engage a mentor then.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dueal(m): 2:21pm On Jun 10, 2009
@solomon201. The reason C++ doesn't sell in nigeria is cause our so call software development companys work wit niija mentality of 'Money today today' like some movies do. No company here is willing to sponsor a project that'll go for more than 2 months (they want plumber work; do am make he work today if e f-up tomorrow we go write am again). Any 'fool' can create a windows form project that queries a DB even a non-techie manager . After them go one make indians 'gree say we reach them, who sai! My brother learn cause u loving creating tech not for the pea they pay.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dammytosh: 2:55pm On Jun 10, 2009
fxmaxony:

@henry.exe, Continue paying good attention to what you are being given in school, there is a way you can grab the selling skill in programming when you are off school, some do get exceptional programming experience here, talkless of when you engage a mentor then.
Some schools still teach some dead and deadly languages. Waiting till you graduate before you get the required skill set is dangerous and could be frustrating.

dueal:

@solomon201. The reason C++ doesn't sell in nigeria is cause our so call software development companys work wit niija mentality of 'Money
I am glad you agree that it doesn't sell in Nigeria.

I am of the opinion that the fact that a method of solving a problem is very difficult to achieve does not make it the best method for the solution. AK47 will not kill a cockroach better than a pair of broom will. grin.
If i write hundreds of lines of code to bring up a simple windows form, that does not make my windows form SIGNIFICANTLY better than the one created by somebody who dragged and drop from an IDE.

-My Opinion.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dueal(m): 4:01pm On Jun 10, 2009
@dammytosh. I'm sure if u were to grab the .java file for that swing GUI class and go through its declaration tree u'll land on a C/C++ code. I'm not against reusing someone elses code but i won't blindly pop this and pop that into my system just cause it's there for use without knowing how it affects my program (that's what strict Java followers do). Plumbers! Can u tell me of one widely known PC program that's in use and is written in pure java? Even SUN microsystems did not use Java for their Solaris OS cause it won't keep-up.I agree java has its place but real programming can't be done with it. It has simplistic network access classes but i'll rather go with Python sockets class. Why? Cause it's efficient written in C/C++. And about writing a 100 line source to get a window up, i don't have to cos i can get Qt3,SDL,wxWidget,ogre3d libs and create my lil class i can reuse or use the systems as is just in d same way that u get swing/AWT GUI class but the difference is mine is efficient cause i'm not blindly having a GC (garbage collector) that eats my CPU clock cycle. I'm not against using any language,funny i know java but why use something the designers won't use. I'm sure if J Gosling was give Shekpe to drink an got high he'll admit he wrote Java 4 his toddler to play with (he guards Java like it's the Holy grail of programming languages calling it a general purpose language instead of strictly a non-general application level one). Dammytosh try building a system that engages graphics algorithm and see how it runs.

1 Like

Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by solomon201(m): 6:29pm On Jun 10, 2009
C++ has done alot though check out http://www.research.att.com/~bs/applications.html

n dueal vs dammy thing is like a language war

guyz
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dammytosh: 9:40am On Jun 11, 2009
solomon201:

C++ has done alot though check out http://www.research.att.com/~bs/applications.html
n dueal vs dammy thing is like a language war
guyz
CPP is a great language despite the motives claimed by Bjarne no doubt about that. Don't misconstrue my argument. I am not an advocate of any language in particular. I advised the original poster about the market of CPP in Nigeria which i guess is indisputable.

dueal:

@dammytosh. I'm sure if u were to grab the .java file for that swing GUI class and go through its declaration tree u'll land on a C/C++ code. I'm not against reusing someone elses code but i won't blindly pop this and pop that into my system just cause it's there for use without knowing how it affects my program (that's what strict Java followers do). Plumbers! Can u tell me of one widely known PC program that's in use and is written in pure java? Even SUN microsystems did not use Java for their Solaris OS cause it won't keep-up. I agree java has its place but[b] real programming can't be done with it[/b]. ,

I'm not against using any language,funny i know java but why use something the designers won't use. I'm sure if J Gosling was give Shekpe to drink an got high he'll admit he wrote [b]Java 4 his toddler to play with (he guards Java like it's the Holy grail of programming languages calling it a general purpose language[/b] instead of strictly a non-general application level one). Dammytosh try building a system that engages graphics algorithm and see how it runs.
@duel,
Your post about Java programming language is one in town smiley grin. I will appreciate a valid source/reference like Bjarne telling us what sucks about his invention.
I am not a language advocate. I can write and i am comfortable with as many languages as my brain permits me but i use the right tool for the right problem in my own opinion.

Happy Coding Bro. smiley
-My Opinion
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dueal(m): 10:28am On Jun 11, 2009
@dammytosh. If u're looking for a ref where Gosling dised his Java u won't find one cause he's bound to promote it by sun (he's not as 'brave' a Stroustrup to admit it). There was this combined interview of Ritchie,Stroustrup,& Gosling i read, on what the think about there languages. Gosling was quite defensive of his Java. Here's the link: http://www.gotw.ca/publications/c_family_interview.htm . Well, i myself won't us an AK47 to smack a roach (lol). Like u, i agree that thought should be given b4  using any language 4 a job based on the systems requirement. HAPPY CODING BRO.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by Kobojunkie: 4:34pm On Jun 11, 2009
fxmaxony:

@henry.exe, Continue paying good attention to what you are being given in school, there is a way you can grab the selling skill in programming when you are off school, some do get exceptional programming experience here, talkless of when you engage a mentor then.

Great advice!! Success in Software Engineering is not about following trends but creating it where you can. C++ requires real dedication. Once you grasp it, you are well on your way to learning most any other language out there in no time. I started off as a C++ Programmer myself but moved towards C# when I got hired to work as a C#/Java Analyst coder, only with my C++ skills. I was able to quickly gain experience working with other languages on the job.

So, it is not necessarily about the language but understanding the base fundamentals of programming. Once you have a serious grasp of basic programming concepts, you are well on your way to learning any language in no time at all. Once you can handle C++, you can handle most anything else out there.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by Ghenghis(m): 12:56am On Jun 14, 2009
solomon201:

@ Poster
though C++ teaches u better memory management but who cares? these days memory is cheap and abundant. Again most ppl say JAVA is slow but i tell u every passing day hardware performance increases n the so called slow pace is disappearing. I think the future holds little or nothing for C++ even with a new standard (C++0x) to be released soon.

So Poster, u should switch to JAVA in my opinion, it is easier, rules is Web development, Networking and it gives more jobs than C++.

please this is wrong!!!

and memory management has little to do with cheap memory, think memory leak

on speed, that was history from the far past ,
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by kennbox(m): 1:39am On Jun 14, 2009
You can Get a whole lot GUI Libraries for C++. Most of which are cross-platform and quite fast.
A Common One would be Trolltech QT which is really somthing.

It's not just a GUI Library, but a collection of Very good utilities attached.
It has an opensource option www.qtsoftware.com

Also C++ has a huge library base.
See Boost.

Cheers! n Good Luck
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by BAC: 5:44pm On Jun 14, 2009
Most developers in California are now switching to C# . That is the best way to go,
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by spyemy(m): 6:10pm On Jun 14, 2009
smiley
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by StephenP(m): 6:56pm On Jun 14, 2009
Java is a lot easier to learn and less complicated but most companies use C++ because it is, in general, more secure. But whichever one you choose to do, I'm sure you'll be just fine.
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dontexe(m): 8:25am On Jun 15, 2009
I'm currently learning Python as my first language. Do you guys think I'm heading in the right direction
Re: C++ Or Java: Which Way To Go? by dammytosh: 9:38am On Jun 15, 2009
dontexe:

I'm currently learning Python as my first language. Do you guys think I'm heading in the right direction

You are not in the wrong direction. Learn it with all your heart and might and make sure you are very good at it.

The truth is that language is kind of relevant when trying to learn computer programming. But the hazzle on this thread is the type of SOFTWARE MARKET we find our self in (NIGERIA).

Best Of Luck.

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