Proverbs 21:3 (NIV)”To do what is right and just is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice”.
Obedience to God is paramount over sacrifices. Doing the right thing and living a righteous life is acceptable to God than all the church activities.

Going to church, working in God’s vine yard are important but the most of them all is living a righteous life unto God. Obeying his words and keeping away from all sins is what God requires from those that call themselves children of God.

Salvation is the ticket to heaven and sanctification is the fitness to heaven. How then will you be sanctified if you don’t obey God’s words? Though one might say I only lie but don’t drink alcohol or I commit fornication once a while but I don’t commit murder but what about the book of James 2:10 that says “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all.” Serve God by living for him completely in holiness and righteousness, in sanctification and purity in perfection and with all devotion then your sacrifices (activities, dances, prayers, and offerings) would be acceptable unto God.

Proverbs 21:21(NIV) “He who pursue righteousness and love finds life, prosperity and honour”, of all commandments, the commandment on love is the greatest, love God, love your neighbors and live for God then every other things you want will be added. Matthew 6:33(NKJV) “But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you”.
I love you that’s why I forwarded this to you, do the same to people you love.

What about the sacrifice of Christ, Jesus? Is obedience greater than that one too?

PastorAIO:
What about the sacrifice of Christ, Jesus? Is obedience greater than that one too?

CHRIST has no sin in him brcause he had been doing God's will. and the sacrifice he made was part of Obedient because he choosed to do the will of the father.

chukwubuzor123:
CHRIST has no sin in him brcause he had been doing God's will. and the sacrifice he made was part of Obedient because he choosed to do the will of the father.

I'm not talking about christ's obedience. Read the OP again.

I talking about your obedience and my obedience. and the obedience of everyday normal people. Which is greater? Our obedience or the Sacrifice of Christ?

Or, was Christ sacrificed for himself? Wasn't he sacrificed for us? So is his sacrifice for us greater at reconciling us to God than our Obedience to God?

This is not a small matter because everyday we see people lying and stealing and murdering and then turning around and claiming that Christ sacrificed for them so it is okay for them to do what they're doing.

PastorAIO:


I'm not talking about christ's obedience. Read the OP again.

I talking about your obedience and my obedience. and the obedience of everyday normal people. Which is greater? Our obedience or the Sacrifice of Christ?

Or, was Christ sacrificed for himself? Wasn't he sacrificed for us? So is his sacrifice for us greater at reconciling us to God than our Obedience to God?

This is not a small matter because everyday we see people lying and stealing and murdering and then turning around and claiming that Christ sacrificed for them so it is okay for them to do what they're doing.

why compare some else's sacrifice with your own obedience? I think your question would be more in touch if you compare your sacrifice with your obedience.
BTW I didn't see your input on my thread. The opinion of someone like you would mean much

Geist:
why compare some else's sacrifice with your own obedience? I think your question would be more in touch if you compare your sacrifice with your obedience.
BTW I didn't see your input on my thread. The opinion of someone like you would mean much

I think there are some fundamental things that are been overlooked here.

Let us break it down as simply as possible.

If you want forgive of sins and reconciliation with God you have to make sacrifice, yes?

Hebrews 9:22
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

In the days of old you sacrifice a beast or whatever for remission of sins.

1Samuel 15:22 tells us
And Samuel said, “Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice


Proverbs 21:3 says the same thing.

Psalm 51:16 is even more damning. It says God has no delight at all from sacrifices.

You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.




Okay. Now that we've established that let us move forward to the new testament where we are told that Jesus' death takes the place of these same sacrifices that God despises so.

On account of this sacrifice which is supposedly the sacrifice to end all sacrifices christians claim to be free of the penalties for their sins. They are reconciled to God on account of this sacrifice of Jesus. Abi?

Furthermore there is no actual change in the conduct of these christians. Far from it, they are the vilest of nastiest of sinners. They lie constantly as you can see all over nairaland, they steal as you can see all over nigeria, and they commit all manner of vile atrocities. yet they believe themselves to be right with God on account of the sacrifice of Jesus.
That Sacrifice of Jesus is for the remission of Human sins, remember? Not for Jesus' sin o. For the sins of you and me. Instead of us killing cow, Jesus has been killed. So the sacrifice of Jesus is NOT someone else's sacrifice. It is the sacrifice made for US.

Now what would be more acceptable to God? Our obedience to him? Or the sacrifice of Jesus?


Amos 4:4

4"Enter Bethel and transgress; In Gilgal multiply transgression! Bring your sacrifices every morning, Your tithes every three days. 5"Offer a thank offering also from that which is leavened, And proclaim freewill offerings, make them known. For so you love to do, you sons of Israel," Declares the Lord GOD.

If you like you can read the Amos literally and argue that it is not sarcastic.

PastorAIO:


I think there are some fundamental things that are been overlooked here.

Let us break it down as simply as possible.

If you want forgive of sins and reconciliation with God you have to make sacrifice, yes?

Hebrews 9:22
Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

In the days of old you sacrifice a beast or whatever for remission of sins.

1Samuel 15:22 tells us
And Samuel said, “Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice


Proverbs 21:3 says the same thing.

Psalm 51:16 is even more damning. It says God has no delight at all from sacrifices.

You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.




Okay. Now that we've established that let us move forward to the new testament where we are told that Jesus' death takes the place of these same sacrifices that God despises so.

On account of this sacrifice which is supposedly the sacrifice to end all sacrifices christians claim to be free of the penalties for their sins. They are reconciled to God on account of this sacrifice of Jesus. Abi?

Furthermore there is no actual change in the conduct of these christians. Far from it, they are the vilest of nastiest of sinners. They lie constantly as you can see all over nairaland, they steal as you can see all over nigeria, and they commit all manner of vile atrocities. yet they believe themselves to be right with God on account of the sacrifice of Jesus.
That Sacrifice of Jesus is for the remission of Human sins, remember? Not for Jesus' sin o. For the sins of you and me. Instead of us killing cow, Jesus has been killed. So the sacrifice of Jesus is NOT someone else's sacrifice. It is the sacrifice made for US.

Now what would be more acceptable to God? Our obedience to him? Or the sacrifice of Jesus?


Amos 4:4

4"Enter Bethel and transgress; In Gilgal multiply transgression! Bring your sacrifices every morning, Your tithes every three days. 5"Offer a thank offering also from that which is leavened, And proclaim freewill offerings, make them known. For so you love to do, you sons of Israel," Declares the Lord GOD.

If you like you can read the Amos literally and argue that it is not sarcastic.

I agree with most of your posits here. Amos 4:4 was sarcastic. Would you agree that there is a bit of sarcasm in Psalm 51:16?
All your posits here still doesn't explain the rationale in comparing Christ sacrifice with our obedience. Would you argue that 1Samuel 15:22 was comparing ones sacrifice with another's obedience? It really does not matter who the sacrifice is for here. It's who is making the sacrifice that counts.

In my opinion, no obedience by man would matter without the sacrifice of Christ.

What's more, I could even argue that there is obedience in sacrifice and vice versa

I beg your pardon. I thought you were familiar with the hebrews passages, that's why I only quoted one verse.

Here is the wider context:

22Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

23Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.


We are discussing efficacy of the ritual of Sacrifice as opposed to the acts of doing God's will. Yes or no?

We are told that the sacrifice for the remission of sins in the OT was but a copy of the real sacrifice of Christ. yes or no?

So let's go very slowly …. the sacrifice being spoken about is a representation/copy of Christ's sacrifice…… in comparing sacrifice to obedience ultimately we are comparing relying on christ's sacrifice to obedience to god's will. Are you following?

comparing ones sacrifice with another's obedience?

I don't get why you're confusing yourself with the irrelevant issue of 'One vs another'. Jesus' sacrifice is for the Sinner. Yes or no?

The Passage in Amos, Samuel, Proverbs etc etc etc (there are many more such passages all over the OT) is referring to the same sinner. yes or no?

The sinner is told to Obey, without which no sacrifice can help him. yes or no?

There is no 'one vs another' separation. Unless you want to say Jesus' sacrifice was only for Jesus and has nothing to do with the sinner who is being urged to obedience.

It really does not matter who the sacrifice is for here. It's who is making the sacrifice that counts.

The sacrifice is and always has been for the Sinner and for the remission of his sins. Who is making the sacrifice?
In the OT it is the High priest.
In Hebrews it is Jesus himself.

Amos doesn't say that the High priest's sacrifice doesn't work because it needs to be buttressed by obedience while jesus' sacrifice can work whether or not you're an unrepentant scumbag of a sinner. I didn't see that anywhere in the bible. But if you try to squeeze that in I'll be very interested in observing the intellectual leaps and somersaults that it would require. Please go ahead and entertain us.

In my opinion, no obedience by man would matter without the sacrifice of Christ.

What's more, I could even argue that there is obedience in sacrifice and vice versa

If Obedience and sacrifice are the same thing then what do you think Amos smoked before he made the dichotomy?

Geist:
I agree with most of your posits here. Amos 4:4 was sarcastic. Would you agree that there is a bit of sarcasm in Psalm 51:16?
All your posits here still doesn't explain the rationale in comparing Christ sacrifice with our obedience. Would you argue that 1Samuel 15:22 was comparing ones sacrifice with another's obedience? It really does not matter who the sacrifice is for here. It's who is making the sacrifice that counts.

In my opinion, no obedience by man would matter without the sacrifice of Christ.

What's more, I could even argue that there is obedience in sacrifice and vice versa

Would you agree that there is a bit of sarcasm in Psalm 51:16?

I don't see any sarcasm here. Could you kindly point it out to me? Thanks.

PastorAIO:
I beg your pardon. I thought you were familiar with the hebrews passages, that's why I only quoted one verse.

Here is the wider context:

22Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

23Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.


We are discussing efficacy of the ritual of Sacrifice as opposed to the acts of doing God's will. Yes or no?

We are told that the sacrifice for the remission of sins in the OT was but a copy of the real sacrifice of Christ. yes or no?

So let's go very slowly …. the sacrifice being spoken about is a representation/copy of Christ's sacrifice…… in comparing sacrifice to obedience ultimately we are comparing relying on christ's sacrifice to obedience to god's will. Are you following?



I don't get why you're confusing yourself with the irrelevant issue of 'One vs another'. Jesus' sacrifice is for the Sinner. Yes or no?

The Passage in Amos, Samuel, Proverbs etc etc etc (there are many more such passages all over the OT) is referring to the same sinner. yes or no?

The sinner is told to Obey, without which no sacrifice can help him. yes or no?

There is no 'one vs another' separation. Unless you want to say Jesus' sacrifice was only for Jesus and has nothing to do with the sinner who is being urged to obedience.



The sacrifice is and always has been for the Sinner and for the remission of his sins. Who is making the sacrifice?
In the OT it is the High priest.
In Hebrews it is Jesus himself.

Amos doesn't say that the High priest's sacrifice doesn't work because it needs to be buttressed by obedience while jesus' sacrifice can work whether or not you're an unrepentant scumbag of a sinner. I didn't see that anywhere in the bible. But if you try to squeeze that in I'll be very interested in observing the intellectual leaps and somersaults that it would require. Please go ahead and entertain us.



If Obedience and sacrifice are the same thing then what do you think Amos smoked before he made the dichotomy?

I see what you mean now. I like to believe there are sacrifices we make by ourselves for ourselves and there are sacrifices we make make for the sake of others. For example, if I decide to eat only one meal a day just so I can save to buy a shoe as against if I eat a meal a day just so that a friend can also have what to eat. The examples of sacrifice mentioned in the OP seemed to relate more with the former. I get that the passages you quoted did not distinguish between the two. My question now is this,
Would our obedience amount to anything without the sacrifice of Christ?

PastorAIO:


I don't see any sarcasm here. Could you kindly point it out to me? Thanks.

The passage referred to God not been delighted in sacrifices but we have passages where God asked for sacrifices. I remember following you to a thread that talked about Gods annoyance at Can's unpleasant sacrifice and was happy with that of Abel.

Yeah, actually the OP misses the point of the scripture he is quoting, it seems. The sacrifice been spoken of is not doing church activities but rather ritual sacrifices (Mizzabah), such as is done for the forgiveness of sins.

Would our obedience amount to anything without the sacrifice of Christ?

Great question. Please permit me to answer with another question.

Is it possible to be obedient without the sacrifice of Christ?

Geist:
I see what you mean now. I like to believe there are sacrifices we make by ourselves for ourselves and there are sacrifices we make make for the sake of others. For example, if I decide to eat only one meal a day just so I can save to buy a shoe as against if I eat a meal a day just so that a friend can also have what to eat. The examples of sacrifice mentioned in the OP seemed to relate more with the former. I get that the passages you quoted did not distinguish between the two. My question now is this,
Would our obedience amount to anything without the sacrifice of Christ?

PastorAIO:
Yeah, actually the OP misses the point of the scripture he is quoting, it seems. The sacrifice been spoken of is not doing church activities but rather ritual sacrifices (Mizzabah), such as is done for the forgiveness of sins.



Great question. Please permit me to answer with another question.

Is it possible to be obedient without the sacrifice of Christ?

I like to believe there were people who were obedient before the sacrifice of Christ. Abraham, Noah, etc

Geist:
The passage referred to God not been delighted in sacrifices but we have passages where God asked for sacrifices. I remember following you to a thread that talked about Gods annoyance at Can's unpleasant sacrifice and was happy with that of Abel.

I don't remember that thread or what I may have said there, but we don't have to go that far. All we have to do is follow the Psalm to the very end.

16For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it;
you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

18Do good to Zion in your good pleasure;
build up the walls of Jerusalem;
19then will you delight in right sacrifices,
in burnt offerings and whole burnt offerings;
then bulls will be offered on your altar.


It follows that a prerequisite to sacrificing successfully is a repentant heart.

A man that calls himself a christian and claims the sacrifice of christ on the cross, yet continues in his nefarious ways, all puffed up and arrogant is merely deceiving himself. It is not a formula that when you say a certain prayer or answer an altar call in a church then you're saved.

all that is rubbish that is being used to mislead people in nigeria and abroad. Once you have made that determination to be obedient it is the sacrifice of Christ that facilitates it's possibility. It is not an abstract thing. It manifests in your everyday living.

Geist:
I like to believe there were people who were obedient before the sacrifice of Christ. Abraham, Noah, etc

Nothing existed before the sacrifice of Christ. It is the very foundation of the world, I would say. Though the bible puts it differently.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:8

PastorAIO:


Nothing existed before the sacrifice of Christ. It is the very foundation of the world, I would say. Though the bible puts it differently.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:8

Hmmm
Very enlightening, are there other passages that supports this ?

You aren't saying anything on my thread . why?

Geist:

Hmmm
Very enlightening, are there other passages that supports this ?

You aren't saying anything on my thread . why?

That is the only verse that I am aware that puts it like that.

I'll look into your thread later. Sorry, for the delay.

PastorAIO:


That is the only verse that I am aware that puts it like that.

I'll look into your thread later. Sorry, for the delay.

Thanks