The term "born again" is the most popular word among pentecostal Christians, they say it is the most crucial aspect of their brand of Christianity. So it is important to find a definitive definition of what born again means.

The first use of the term can be found in John 3 of the King James Version.

John 3:1-22 (King James Version)

John 3

1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

From the above verses Nicodemus also was interested in knowing what born again means. First i would like to digress by observing that Nicodemus saw Jesus not as God or Son of God, but as a Rabbi, a spiritual teacher but one from God. He was not even interested in following Jesus, he only came to acknowledge Jesus as coming from God.

Now Jesus in explaining what born again means to be born of water and of spirit. So according to Jesus born again means to be born of water first ( which i guess means baptism) and then being born of the spirit. Jesus now went to to compare someone that is born of the spirit to a wind that blows and is heard but cannot be located. Now that is confusing, will someone that is born again become like a wind that cannot be located or will the person hear wind that he/she cannot locate.
Nicodemus also asked for more clarifications but Jesus did not oblige him, instead Jesus said he should know these things as a "master of Israel" and that he should more or less just believe everything he says.

Another digression, i wonder why Jesus would said "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness." This statement seems out of context and out of place, he appears to be talking to an audience here and not specifically to Nicodemus. and who is our witness?

In conclusion Nicodemus did not understand what born again meant and refused to be born again, meaning Jesus himself did not succeed in converting the first person he preached to born again.


So Jesus never said that to be born again you must give your life to me and accept me as your personal saviour, come into me and control my whole life, as is practice today.

Also I find no body becoming a born again in a ritual or proclamation any where in the bible.

So i await a more informed theological explanation from my fellow born again Nairalanders.

wirinet:

The term "born again" is the most popular word among pentecostal Christians, they say it is the most crucial aspect of their brand of Christianity. So it is important to find a definitive definition of what born again means.

The first use of the term can be found in John 3 of the King James Version.


From the above verses Nicodemus also was interested in knowing what born again means. First i would like to digress by observing that Nicodemus saw Jesus not as God or Son of God, but as a Rabbi, a spiritual teacher but one from God. He was not even interested in following Jesus, he only came to acknowledge Jesus as coming from God.

Now Jesus in explaining what born again means to be born of water and of spirit. So according to Jesus born again means to be born of water first ( which i guess means baptism) and then being born of the spirit. Jesus now went to to compare someone that is born of the spirit to a wind that blows and is heard but cannot be located. Now that is confusing, will someone that is born again become like a wind that cannot be located or will the person hear wind that he/she cannot locate.
Nicodemus also asked for more clarifications but Jesus did not oblige him, instead Jesus said he should know these things as a "master of Israel" and that he should more or less just believe everything he says.

Another digression, i wonder why Jesus would said "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness." This statement seems out of context and out of place, he appears to be talking to an audience here and not specifically to Nicodemus. and who is our witness?

In conclusion Nicodemus did not understand what born again meant and refused to be born again, meaning Jesus himself did not succeed in converting the first person he preached to born again.


So Jesus never said that to be born again you must give your life to me and accept me as your personal saviour, come into me and control my whole life, as is practice today.

Also I find no body becoming a born again in a ritual or proclamation any where in the bible.

So i await a more informed theological explanation from my fellow born again Nairalanders.

Bro, thats exactly what the thread is about, thanks for your input, God bless

I'd like to answer your question. But first, let me point out that you sound sarcastic in your post. So, do you really want to know and apply the knowledge or are you just interested in starting a debate (I have better things to do than debating all-day)? Second, are you a Christian, a muslim or an atheist?

omo sexy:

Bro, thats exactly what the thread is about, thanks for your input, God bless

HEllo, how about this one,

Exodus 21: 17 Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

And cross-reference with, where Jesus is called on his listeners to remember to observer Exodus 21: 17.

Matthew 15: 1-9 :

1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.



Do you know believe that a quotation from the bible is worth celebrating?

Huxley, you're free to start another topic on that issue and it'll be clarified. Why not let the issue here be tackled first? Gosh - bigotry can make people act so senselessly!

EVidently the pentecostal interpretation of the term "born again" is heavily flawed anyway i would reserve my comments until they spill out what they have been indoctrinated to believe despite the fact that you would pick several holes in their interpretation of it when the bible is scrutinized.

gen2genius:

Huxley, you're free to start another topic on that issue and it'll be clarified. Why not let the issue here be tackled first? Gosh - bigotry can make people act so senselessly!

Ok, will do. I hope you oblige as well.

KunleOshob:

EVidently the pentecostal interpretation of the term "born again" is heavily flawed anyway i would reserve my comments until they spill out what they have been indoctrinated to believe despite the fact that you would pick several holes in their interpretation of it when the bible is scrutinized.

Typical "I'm more knowledgeable than everyone else" mentality. Leave the "misinformed, indoctrinated" pentecostals' interpretation out of this and give us the Almighty Omniscient KunleOshob's "infallible" interpretation.

If you are diligently and sincerely seeking for the answer to the question posted then read the article below and take the necessary practical steps to be born again. It will take the washing of not only the brain (mind) but of the heart by the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to be cleansed and transformed.

Born Again

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

The vital doctrine of regeneration has been applicable in all ages, for man by nature is a lost sinner and must be spiritually reborn through faith in God and His promises to be saved. This truth appears in the Old Testament, for example, in David's prayer: "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me" (Psalm 51:10).

It is emphasised more clearly and explicitly in the New Testament. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour" (Titus 3:5-6). "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever" (1 Peter 1:23).

Note that this spiritual birth is produced only through the eternal Word of God. "According to his abundant mercy," the Lord "hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you" (1 Peter 1:3-4).

To be raised from spiritual death in sin to eternal life in Christ is a true miracle, as much so as the physical resurrection of Christ Himself, or even as the very creation of the world. "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (2 Corinthians 4:6).

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new |creation|: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17). HMM

Did Jesus really say that? Find out  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar

My good friend Mr Olaadegun, the original copy and past master. I have seen this same response in another thread. Ok lets go through your definition of "Born Again" one by one.

Born Again

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

This verse had already been treated in the opening post and you have not made any comment on my observations.

The vital doctrine of regeneration has been applicable in all ages, for man by nature is a lost sinner and must be spiritually reborn through faith in God and His promises to be saved. This truth appears in the Old Testament, for example, in David's prayer: "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me" (Psalm 51:10).

I do not see what psalm 51:10 has to do with the term born again. Are you saying David was a born again or was becoming born again after saying that prayer.

It is emphasised more clearly and explicitly in the New Testament. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour" (Titus 3:5-6). "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever" (1 Peter 1:23).

The problem with pastors and preacher is that they take a sentence right out of context, then look for a corresponding out of context support from any other part of the bible and the affirm what ever assertion they have.

For me to understand what the sentences above really means one should look at the sentence before the quoted verses and those after to understand the message the write was trying to pass through.

3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


Obviously the writer talking about how malice and envy, hateful, and hating of each other and how the kindness and love of God can be made to appear, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy, and by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. But also admonishes those that believed in God to be careful to maintain good works.

So the theme of this verse is not about born again.
Also in 1 Peter 1: 22-24
22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

The writer was talking about unfeigned love of fellow brethren, so they should love one another with a pure heart fervently. the same statement then continues that they are born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

So being born again in the context it was used here has to do with love and not any other thing.
I think in those days there was a lot of hatred and disunity in the church and the writer admonishes members to be born again - change their heart and love one another.

Note that this spiritual birth is produced only through the eternal Word of God. "According to his abundant mercy," the Lord "hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you" (1 Peter 1:3-4).

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The part quoted by Olaadegun is part of the introductory paragraph (greetings) of a letter to strangers(church members maybe) scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. And it says they are begotten by unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. So it did not say that they should perform anything to become born again.

To be raised from spiritual death in sin to eternal life in Christ is a true miracle, as much so as the physical resurrection of Christ Himself, or even as the very creation of the world. "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (2 Corinthians 4:6).

The above verse has not relationship with the term born again

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new |creation|: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17). HMM

Also here it did not say born again, Pentecostals just interpret being in Christ to mean being born again.

So Mr Olaadegun had not defined "Born Again" nor the process of being "Born Again"

I knew it! I wish Oladegbu too had been perceptive enough. He would have know that the thread starter wasn't sincere. Just a cynic looking for an excuse to start a pointless debate. Wirinet, ride on. Keep wallowing your cesspool of ignorance, confusion and self-ruin. It's your life

gen2genius,
Where have you been - Greenland?, Mr Olaadegun and I have come a long way on Nairaland, so we already have an idea of each other's perspective. You seem to be very new here on the religious section.

If you have anything to contribute to the thread, lets have it. If not let Mr Olaadegun answer his father's name.

wirinet:

My good friend Mr Olaadegun, the original copy and past master. I have seen this same response in another thread. Ok lets go through your definition of "Born Again" one by one.
This verse had already been treated in the opening post and you have not made any comment on my observations.


I do not see what psalm 51:10 has to do with the term born again. Are you saying David was a born again or was becoming born again after saying that prayer.

The problem with pastors and preacher is that they take a sentence right out of context, then look for a corresponding out of context support from any other part of the bible and the affirm what ever assertion they have.

For me to understand what the sentences above really means one should look at the sentence before the quoted verses and those after to understand the message the write was trying to pass through.

3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


Obviously the writer talking about how malice and envy, hateful, and hating of each other and how the kindness and love of God can be made to appear, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy, and by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. But also admonishes those that believed in God to be careful to maintain good works.

So the theme of this verse is not about born again.
Also in 1 Peter 1: 22-24
22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

The writer was talking about unfeigned love of fellow brethren, so they should love one another with a pure heart fervently. the same statement then continues that they are born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

So being born again in the context it was used here has to do with love and not any other thing.
I think in those days there was a lot of hatred and disunity in the church and the writer admonishes members to be born again - change their heart and love one another.


1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

The part quoted by Olaadegun is part of the introductory paragraph (greetings) of a letter to strangers(church members maybe) scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. And it says they are begotten by unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. So it did not say that they should perform anything to become born again.The above verse has not relationship with the term born again
Also here it did not say born again, Pentecostals just interpret being in Christ to mean being born again.

So Mr Olaadegun had not defined "Born Again" nor the process of being "Born Again"

@Wirinet
I love the way you disectted pastor olaadegbu's submission, i am really glad that people are beginning to read the bible with understanding instead of swallowing all the hubris that spews out out of these delusional pentecostal churches.

@wirinet,

It is amazing the way you guys think and process information.  We definitely have different opposing perspectives and worldviews due to the different spectacles that we use to observe the evidence around us.

You don't know what the term born again means and at the same time you are so sure to debunk the explanation given.  How illogical, unreasonable or irrational is that?  I will suggest that you read what we have been enjoying in the NL Christian e-fellowship maybe you will be able to come to the illumination of the word of God, and that is if you have an open mind.

We Have the Mind of Christ
7 July, 2009

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1:7)

Although humanistic intellectuals often scoff at the Christian intellect, the fact is that it is only the born-again Christian who is able really to understand spiritual truth, for "the god of this world hath blinded the minds |or 'thoughts'| of them which believe not" (2 Corinthians 4:4).

By the miracle of the new birth, however, received through faith in Christ, the believer is "transformed by the renewing of your mind" (Romans 12:2).  In fact, "we have the mind of Christ" (1 Corinthians 2:16).

The potential of a renewed, Christ-honouring, scripturally submissive mind is tremendous.  In the first place, said the Lord Jesus, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God . . . with all thy mind" (Matthew 22:37).  Secondly, one must have implicit faith in the Word of God: "Neither be ye of doubtful mind. . . . O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken" (Luke 12:29; 24:25).  One should also "put on . . . humbleness of mind" (Colossians 3:12) and seek to discipline his mind--that is "gird up the loins of your mind, be sober" (1 Peter 1:13).  Along with this should be developed mature thinking[i]--"in understanding be men"[/i] (1 Corinthians 14:20).

That potential is implicit in the great truth that in Christ "are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Colossians 2:3).  We therefore should seek to bring "into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:5).

Certainly we should not allow our minds to dwell on the vain imaginations of those "professing themselves to be wise" (Romans 1:21-22) in the "wisdom of  this world" which will soon "come to naught" (1 Corinthians 2:6).  It is we, not they, to whom God has given a "sound mind"! HMM

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-159075.0.html

KunleOshob:

@Wirinet
I love the way you disectted pastor olaadegbu's submission, i am really glad that people are beginning to read the bible with understanding instead of swallowing all the hubris that spews out out of these delusional pentecostal churches.

Why don't you ask your new found 'pastor' the meaning of the term born again and if he has any light in him he will be able to bring you to the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ unless it is the case of the blind leading the blind.

OLAADEGBU:

@wirinet,

It is amazing the way you guys think and process information. We definitely have different opposing perspectives and worldviews due to the different spectacles that we use to observe the evidence around us.

You don't know what the term born again means and at the same time you are so sure to debunk the explanation given. How logical, reasonable or rational is that? I will suggest that you read what we have been enjoying in the NL Christian e-fellowship maybe you will be able to come to the illumination of the word of God, and that is if you have an open mind.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-159075.0.html

How won't he be able to debunk the shallow and baseless explaination you gave. Evidently your explaination is from twisted logic and using unrelated scriptures to force your penterascal meaning into the term.

OLAADEGBU:

Why don't you ask your new found 'pastor' the meaning of the term born again and if he has any light in him he will be able to bring you to the saving knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ unless it is the case of the blind leading the blind.

Olaadgbu i make bold to say that you have absolutely no idea what the true knowledge of our lord Jesus christ is. you are just a religious hypocrite and there are millions of you in the world today who assume they are "born again" based on twisted doctrine they have been taught by eqaully twisted preachers. Go and read James 1:27 to have a little idea as to how you should be practising your christian religion and compare it to the hypocrisy which you currently manifest.

Chrisbenogor:

Did Jesus really say that? Find out  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar

The group calling themselves the Jesus Seminar are a bunch of atheists, naturalists and evolutionists that have the diabolical agenda of attacking the source of Christianity by reducing the Person of Jesus Christ to a figment of imagination and the word of God as the ideas of some politicians.  Obviously the likes of KunleOshob and other atheists and agnostics on this board feed on their lies from the pit of hell.  Read more about this satanic group in the link below.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t016.html

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t017.html

gen2genius:

I knew it! I wish Oladegbu too had been perceptive enough. He would have know that the thread starter wasn't sincere. Just a cynic looking for an excuse to start a pointless debate. Wirinet, ride on. Keep wallowing your cesspool of ignorance, confusion and self-ruin. It's your life

I am quite aware of the game they are playing my brother, the difference is that they are unaware of the game Satan is playing with their soul.  It is up to them to smell the coffee and see that it is a matter of life and death and they have to make a choice that will determine where they will spend their eternity. 

This is what their apostle said in his book "The Blind watchmaker"

"Evolution - The Greatest Show on Earth - The Only Game in Town!"

OLAADEGBU:

@wirinet,

It is amazing the way you guys think and process information.  We definitely have different opposing perspectives and worldviews due to the different spectacles that we use to observe the evidence around us.

You don't know what the term born again means and at the same time you are so sure to debunk the explanation given.  How illogical, unreasonable or irrational is that?  I will suggest that you read what we have been enjoying in the NL Christian e-fellowship maybe you will be able to come to the illumination of the word of God, and that is if you have an open mind.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-159075.0.html

This is the mental definition of wirinet's online personality. Debunking terms without giving explicit or meaningful reasons for doing so.
the same goes for dalaman, toneyb and KAG. one wonders if they read their posts at all?

noetic2:

This is the mental definition of wirinet's online personality. Debunking terms without giving explicit or meaningful reasons for doing so.
the same goes for dalaman, toneyb and KAG. one wonders if they read their posts at all?

Absolutely fellow soldier in Christ. Atheism is a lack of belief mentality which rejects the existence of anything supernatural. I see no reason why naturalists and evolutionists will not believe that there is a natural explanation for all circumstances and that their is no supernatural answer. It surprises me why wirinet will embark on explaining a supernatural book when he does not believe in it or worse still debunking explanation given when he has no idea what it is all about. This is why Atheism is the most illogical, unreasonable, irrational and unscientific worldview to assume.

I wondered why anyone bothered to respond to a post that started out with a bold lie!

[size=14pt]In conclusion Nicodemus did not understand what born again meant and refused to be born again, meaning Jesus himself did not succeed in converting the first person he preached to born again.[/size]

OLAADEGBU:

It surprises me why wirinet will embark on explaining[b] a supernatural book[/b] when he does not believe in it or worse still debunking explanation given when he has no idea what it is all about. This is why Atheism is the most illogical, unreasonable, irrational and unscientific worldview to assume.

The Bible is not a supernatural book.

Krayola:

The Bible is not a supernatural book.

that is your own opinion.

davidylan:

that is your own opinion.

The Bible was written by men. Some of the contents are known to be fiction e.g. The appearance of Jesus after his death in the Book of Mark. Some of the teachings of Jesus have been shown to have evolved over time after his death, e.g. from ministering disciples/followers not owning any possessions and eating only what food/ is offered to them by their hosts, to workers deserving their wages - Jesus wanted commensality to be a strategy for "rebuilding peasant community on radically different principles, based on egalitarian sharing of spiritual and material power at a grass-roots level." When the mission spread to urban centres the reality changed and they needed to start gettin paid. By Luke and into the letters of Paul we start to see the word "wages" creeping in to replace "food" in some of the scriptures where Jesus was being quoted or paraphrased. Read Matthew 10:10 (food), Luke10:7 (wages), 1 Corinthians 9:4, 9 and 14 (food), 1 Timothy 5:17-18 (wages).   

Even the OT has been shown to be Jewish history as documented by different tribes, hence the conflicting stories, and different names used to describe God, amongst other things. Unless u have a different meaning of the word "supernatural", I don't see how, amidst all this evidence (lots and lots), the Bible can be called a supernatural book.

Krayola:

The Bible was written by men. Some of the contents are known to be fiction e.g. The appearance of Jesus after his death in the Book of Mark. Some of the teachings of Jesus have been shown to have evolved over time after his death, e.g. from ministering disciples/followers not owning any possessions and eating only what food/ is offered to them by their hosts, to workers deserving their wages - Jesus wanted commensality to be a strategy for "rebuilding peasant community on radically different principles, based on egalitarian sharing of spiritual and material power at a grass-roots level." When the mission spread to urban centres the reality changed and they needed to start gettin paid. By Luke and into the letters of Paul we start to see the word "wages" creeping in to replace "food" in some of the scriptures where Jesus was being quoted or paraphrased. Read Matthew 10:10 (food), Luke10:7 (wages), 1 Corinthians 9:4, 9 and 14 (food), 1 Timothy 5:17-18 (wages).   

Even the OT has been shown to be Jewish history as documented by different tribes, hence the conflicting stories, and different names used to describe God, amongst other things. Unless u have a different meaning of the word "supernatural", I don't see how, amidst all this evidence (lots and lots), the Bible can be called a supernatural book.

Do you expect him to agree with what you have written? This is the same thing as telling a muslim that the koran is not the word of allah. The muslim will never accept it. To the muslim the koran is the word of allah just as to the christian the bible is the word of god. They both don't have any god telling people or writing any part of their religious books, as for the bible it was complied by men through a vote, men voted on what to be accepted as the word of god and what to be discarded. Both books were written long after the their principal characters. the bible was not put to together until over 300 years after the alleged death of jesus same with the koran(long after the death of mohammed). Even the gospels were written about 40-100 years after the death of jesus. Some of the hadiths were written long after the death of mohammed.

haha. . I don't have any expectations. It is just puzzling how people trust a stranger on a pulpit to interpret the Bible, and ignore what historians, arhcaeologists, biblical scholars; a lot of whom are Christians whose careers are motivated by their faith, tell them about the Bible. They assume anybody that does not believe the same thing as them is being used by the devil. It is frustrating at times. Under no circumstances will any of these people believe that a virgin had a son that walked on water (performed miracles). Unless of course it was in the bible. . .even though identical stories/myths had existed long before Jesus (but of course they were planted by the cunning devil to deceive the foolish, us)). Show them the evidence and they will call you a devil. It is bizarre.

Krayola:

The Bible is not a supernatural book.

Clearly, the Bible's origin is from outside our physical universe, outside the dimension of time.  This short poem shows you the contents of the owners manual.

This book contains the mind of God,
The state of man,
The way of salvation,
The doom of sinners and-
The happiness of  believers.

Its precepts are binding,
Its history is true, and
Its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise,
Believe it to be saved, and
Practise it to be holy.

It contains light to direct you,
Food to support you, and
Comfort to cheer you;

It is the traveller’s map and
The Christian’s charter.

Here is paradise restored,
Heaven opened and
Gates of hell closed.

Christ is the grand subject,
Our good its design, and
The glory of God its end.

Read it
Slowly,
Frequently, and
Prayerfully.

It is a mine of wealth,
A paradise of glory, and
A river of pleasure.

It will reward the greatest labour and
Condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

The Book:
The Book of books;
The Book of life;
The Book of God;
The Bible;
The Revelation of God to man.

This Book will keep you from sin, and
Sin will keep you from this Book.

Reading and confessing the words of this book will:
Terrify the devil,
Stupefy the rebellious,
Mystify the world,
Pacify the critics,
Ratify the covenant,
Edify the church,
Magnify the Word, and
Glorify the Lord!

ok. If u say so

OLAADEGBU:

Clearly, the Bible's origin is from outside our physical universe, outside the dimension of time.  This short poem shows you the contents of the owners manual.

Another pathetic LIE, the origin of the bible is catholic church and the bishops that sat down and voted on what to be accepted as the word of god and what to be discarded amongst the so many scriptures and letters that were in circulation at that time.

bindex:

Another pathetic LIE, the origin of the bible is catholic church and the bishops that sat down and voted on what to be accepted as the word of god and what to be discarded amongst the so many scriptures and letters that were in circulation at that time.

You are perfectly entitled to your own opinion. It is your prerogative who and what you choose to believe.  Charles Wesley certainly gave us food for thought when he said the words about the origin of the Bible:

"The Bible must be the invention either of good men or angels, bad men or devils, or of God. However, it was not written by good men, because good men would not tell lies by saying 'Thus saith the Lord;' it was not written by bad men because they would not write about doing good duty, while condemning sin, and themselves to hell; thus, it must be written by divine inspiration" .

- Charles Wesley, McDowell, Evidence That Demands a Verdict, 1990:178.