Just over a decade ago, I wrote a book whose main theme was about the cost of delaying marriage and motherhood to my generation of women. We'd grown up in the 1970s and '80s, during a period when our mothers were casting off their marriages like old dresses; entering the workforce for the first time in huge numbers; and the feminist movement was decreeing that men were as necessary to women as bicycles are to fish.

The message to us was clear and unwavering: Don't waste your time getting married young like we did. In fact, don't waste your time getting married, period. Put off having children until later. MUCH later. Focus on your education and then your career. It's in your work that you will find your identity and achieve your independence; it's from your work that you are going to derive the most satisfaction in life. And it was upon your work, not a man, which you could depend to support you in the long haul (hey, they was boom times). Marriage, kids -- those are afterthoughts. Things to be considered down the road, if at all.

The lesson we eventually drew, however, was quite different. Urged to "celebrate our sexuality" with multiple partners throughout our 20s, many of us became acquainted with rather less celebrated aftershocks: STDs, abortion, "commitment issues," and maybe most of all, loneliness. Much as we might try, we could not reprogram our hearts. The majority of women continued to express the desire to marry and become mothers (at least in anonymity to pollsters; it was not something you'd admit to your girlfriends). But we still had no idea how we were going to achieve these things -- how to fit them in with our careers? How to fit them in with our so-called independent identities? And how to fit them in before... we couldn't?

That was the kicker. If you stumbled along this way into your 30s, suddenly you found yourself looking around and wondering where the men went. And just as we couldn't reprogram our hearts, we discovered that we couldn't reprogram our biology either. Babies? Did someone just say babies? Where? Where?!

Thus many of us found ourselves making the accidental journey into single motherhood, reproductive technology, and adoption.

My eldest daughter is now 20. I began researching my book before she could read. In the space of time since my book was published and she has grown up, I've watched her generation shake off the stigmas attached to marriage and motherhood. Traditional weddings, with all the trimmings, have become fashionable again. She and her friends don't hide their delight with babies and small children (I remember me and my friends rolling our eyes at such behavior). And they talk seriously about how they will mesh their careers (because of course they will have them, economy permitting) with marriage and motherhood.

And yet, they seem to be as perplexed as we were about how to do so -- to "have it all." My daughter cites Beyoncé as an inspiration. True, celebrities of Beyoncé's stature in my time weren't singing about "what we leave behind" (at least beyond our staplers and investment portfolios):


I was here

I lived, I loved

I was here

I did, I've done, everything that I wanted

And it was more than I thought it would be

I will leave my mark so everyone will know

I was here



I want to say I lived each day, until I die

And know that I meant something in, somebody's life

The hearts I have touched, will be the proof that I leave

That I made a difference, and this world will see



...or lifetime monogamy (as in "1 Plus 1":


Hey! I don't know much about guns but I... I've been shot by you

Hey! And I don't know when I'm gonna die, but I hope that I'm gonna die by you

Hey! And I don't know much about fighting, but I, I know I will fight for you

Hey! Just when I ball up my fist I realize that I'm laying right next to you




But I do notice that parents will spend thousands of dollars, if they have them, researching colleges for their children; we will spend hours agonizing over every grade, every step our children take towards setting themselves up for a career. But how many hours do we spend talking to them about how and what it means to share a life with someone? About the selflessness and generosity it takes to be a wife or husband, a mother or father -- and that such selflessness and generosity are not stifling things, nor are they identity crushing things? Indeed, these are the very qualities that will lead to the most enlarging and enriching experiences of our lives. I know parents who will speak frankly to their 12-year-olds about how to use a condom -- but would shy from "asserting" any advice about marriage or motherhood. And yet the latter advice is desperately and urgently needed, more so than ever.

Now another study has just come out confirming what should by this point be the obvious: that postponing pregnancy too long has its perils.


The [study] says some women may be waiting too long to start their families, perhaps because they over-estimate their chances of successfully conceiving with fertility treatments, if the need arises.


It says women in their 20s and 30s need better reproductive counselling so that they have an accurate grasp of what waiting to start their families does to their chances of conceiving.



"Better" reproductive counselling. Yes, that's what needed. Sure. And maybe "better" and more realistic life counselling as well.


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/danielle-crittenden/dont-delay-pregnancy-doh_b_1101651.html

I found this interesting and debatable

So you people don't want to delay marriage and pregnancy anymore?
I thought career-oriented independent women could get any man they desired at any age, and get pregnant/give birth even at 50yrs of age and above?
Una don change am for us again...


People grounded in reality have always known the truths, it's women who fill their head with illusions that come for our necks when we tell them to pay attention to their biological clocks.
Unlike men, women usually don't taste or get more attractive with age...sorry to say.
Nature's a sure b!tch, ain't it?

Shocker! Bukatyne's daughter is 20 years!! Bukatyne is of the hippie generation?

Oh wait. It's not her own story. Sorry. Lemme finish reading.

(Those were the thots that went thru my head)

But how many hours do we spend talking to them about how and what it means to share a life with someone? About the selflessness and generosity it takes to be a wife or husband, a mother or father -- and that such selflessness and generosity are not stifling things, nor are they identity crushing things?

This I believe they can learn from observing their parents' relationship. There's only so much that words can do if the examples set for them are poor.
You can't teach your kids (with words) that it takes love and selflessness to build a strong home when they can actually see there's no love between the parents.

@topic.

Typical Consequences of being extremist.

Human society has been patriarchal in nature from the very beginning whether you subscribe to God or evolution. The men provide and protect, the women nurture and preserve. The modern woman's desire to change that is not going to happen in 3 or 4 generations whether you subscribe to God or evolution.

While I admire and support the modern woman's desire to get more from life, I still believe her primary role is to nurture and preserve.

The meaning of "women and children first" is basically "keep the tribe and the human race from extinction"

Freeze your eggs ladies

cococandy:
@topic.

Typical Consequences of being extremist.

Very True

LewsTherin:
Shocker! Bukatyne's daughter is 20 years!! Bukatyne is of the hippie generation?

Oh wait. It's not her own story. Sorry. Lemme finish reading.

(Those were the thots that went thru my head)

Lols!

Maybe it is my story

Pidggin:
Freeze your eggs ladies

Can you afford to freeze your eggs?



[size=3]This is one example of someone that refuses to register her mind with reality[/size]

Don't know what to say. But this topic coming from a female, indicates maybe things isn't as hopeless as they seem.

The moral is simple: There is a price to pay for every action. If you're ambitious whether male or female reconcile yourself to the cost.

When it's all done, you wouldn't need anyone to tell you what should have been, where you lost it, what you traded for material gratification , and how it wasn't worth it.

With the material gratification and wealth, the soul ended its journey unfulfilled still.

cococandy:

This I believe they can learn from observing their parents' relationship. There's only so much that words can do if the examples set for them are poor.
You can't teach your kids (with words) that it takes love and selflessness to build a strong home when they can actually see there's no love between the parents.

Also extremely true

This is why women will never be equal to men. You can't eat your cake and have it, some sacrifices have to be made, if all women want to be mothers that is perfect, but you will loose out on participating in things outside the home e.g politics, and other occupations that require your time. This is why the argument that a woman's place is in the home, you cannot be the president and at the same time have to cook for your husband and kids, accept your place as kitchen minders and baby making machines

crackhaus:

Can you afford to freeze your eggs?



[size=3]This is one example of someone that refuses to register her mind with reality[/size]

Hahaha it's actually free where I live.

crackhaus:
So you people don't want to delay marriage and pregnancy anymore?
I thought career-oriented independent women could get any man they desired at any age, and get pregnant/give birth even at 50yrs of age and above?
Una don change am for us again...


People grounded in reality have always known the truths, it's women who fill their head with illusions that come for our necks when we tell them to pay attention to their biological clocks.
Unlike men, women usually don't taste or get more attractive with age...sorry to say.
Nature's a sure b!tch, ain't it?

@Bold: I find 'you people' especially when you cannot pinpoint a post where I made/implied the bolded very irritating and . It does nothing to help the discourse.

@ 2nd paragraph:
Unfortunately, life is not all white and black so people intend to marry earlier and do so later; people marry early and TTC for long; people marry early and it does not work out; people marry late and they seem to have it all.

I also believe there is a role destiny has to play.

I am also sure you would advocate a woman has a job/ source of income before marriage.

What now happens when a lady serves at 29 and does not get a job immediately?

LewsTherin:
Human society has been patriarchal in nature from the very beginning whether you subscribe to God or evolution. The men provide and protect, the women nurture and preserve. The modern woman's desire to change that is not going to happen in 3 or 4 generations whether you subscribe to God or evolution.

While I admire and support the modern woman's desire to get more from life, I still believe her primary role is to nurture and preserve.

The meaning of "women and children first" is basically "keep the tribe and the human race from extinction"

The bold brings a question...

Didn't/Did the women of old get more from life (according to their times)?

Pidggin:
Freeze your eggs ladies

Well,

Why would I want to freeze my eggs when I can have them now and bounce back in future?

hypothetically.

bukatyne:


Well,

Why would I want to freeze my eggs when I can have them now and bounce back in future?

hypothetically.

I am talking to those who can't have them now due to circumstances beyond their control.

postmann:
Don't know what to say. But this topic coming from a female, indicates maybe things isn't as hopeless as they seem.

The moral is simple: There is a price to pay for every action. If you're ambitious whether male or female reconcile yourself to the cost.

When it's all done, you wouldn't need anyone to tell you what should have been, where you lost it, what you traded for material gratification , and how it wasn't worth it.

With the material gratification and wealth, the soul ended its journey unfulfilled still.

@Bold: True

Again, I would also say it is important to be able to prioritize and plan appropriately.

“When reality sets in and you realize you cant cheat nature“ should be the right topic

There‘s norrin to say here because na the same thing we dey shout since

From everything i‘ve seen its obvious women dont think through before conclusion,from dont think about marriage think about career to think about marriage.......who are we kidding?

Pidggin:


I am talking to those who can't have them now due to circumstances beyond their control.

@Bold such as...

peacengine:
This is why women will never be equal to men. You can't eat your cake and have it, some sacrifices have to be made, if all women want to be mothers that is perfect, but you will loose out on participating in things outside the home e.g politics, and other occupations that require your time. This is why the argument that a woman's place is in the home, you cannot be the president and at the same time have to cook for your husband and kids, accept your place as kitchen minders and baby making machines

I am yet to see anyone who 'eats' his/her cake and have it.

Perfect mothers? Don't think it is achievable.

And I am sure some 'Presidents' will still be able to tend their homes in addition to ruling the world.

bukatyne:


@Bold such as...

You should know, you are also a lady, you ought to know a sister or two in such a situation.

Pidggin:


You should know, you are also a lady, you ought to know a sister or two in such a situation.

Are you saying a woman should freeze her eggs as a backup in the event she has issues conceiving?

bukatyne:


I am yet to see anyone who 'eats' his/her cake and have it.

Perfect mothers? Don't think it is achievable.

And I am sure some 'Presidents' will still be able to tend their homes in addition to ruling the world.

We eat our cake and have it, we rule the world yet we still have loving wives cooking our meals and warming our beds we also have them taking care of the kids while we work It's a man's world and we can have kids at any time we want it's so convenient

bukatyne:


Are you saying a woman should freeze her eggs as a backup in the event she has issues conceiving?

Yep

bukatyne:


@Bold: True

Again, I would also say it is important to be able to prioritize and plan appropriately.

True that

peacengine:


We eat our cake and have it, we rule the world yet we still have loving wives cooking our meals and warming our beds we also have them taking care of the kids while we work It's a man's world

Well if we follow the theory that says women love cooking and house keeping according to Esther Vilar and co, I think men have the short end of the stick.

You rule the world and don't have a bond with your kids... browse NL to see several threads laments the 'thankless' job of fatherhood.

A wife cooks & cleans and care of her kids (doing what she loves) and still get to be made love to. (Studies on NL say women enjoy love making more than men)

Perhaps girls actually rule your world.

@Having kids when you want: The older you are, the older the quality of sperm

And I am sure an average man doesn't want kids in his old age.

You don't want to do school runs @ 60, do you?

Pidggin:


Yep

Okay nau...

This is different from freezing it because you want to work first and delay the kids...

Your plan actually makes a whole lot of sense.

Ideally, there is no issue of eggs getting depleted or lack of premium eggs....

The only thing to contend with is the aging body.

Good one.

bukatyne:


The bold brings a question...

Didn't/Did the women of old get more from life (according to their times)?

More? No. They got what the society they were in gave. For most, it was more than enough. They were fulfiled. The modern woman tends to want a little more than what her mothers got. Where her mother was a home keeper, she wants to have a career as well.

Note, I am not saying this is a bad thing. For men, we've had it this way ever since. For the modern woman, she wants to change the status quo she met. However, changing things while desiring the old thing requires a skill of balance that she is still learning.

My point is the last couple of generations has not been enough time for that change to result in a new equilibrium that she finds perfect as the status she isntrying to change is one that has existed since the beginning of human society.

LewsTherin:


More? No. They got what the society they were in gave. For most, it was more than enough. They were fulfiled. The modern woman tends to want a little more than what her mothers got. Where her mother was a home keeper, she wants to have a career as well.

Note, I am not saying this is a bad thing. For men, we've had it this way ever since. For the modern woman, she wants to change the status quo she met. However, changing things while desiring the old thing requires a skill of balance that she is still learning.

My point is the last couple of generations has not been enough time for that change to result in a new equilibrium that she finds perfect as the status she isn trying to change is one that has existed since the beginning of human society.

I doubt they were fulfilled because they trained the 'modern' woman to want more

I guess we all mix history up because peeps are quick to say the women of old were hard workers outside the home and every woman who wants to be a home keeper 'lazy'.

I believe with time, women would be able to find that sweet balance with prioritizing and knowing what they want.