The vehicle in question is a I4 Camry '05

Problems:

1. Extremely high idle on engine start both cold and warm . . about 2000 RPM
2. Idle drops to 1200PM after a few seconds.
3. Idle drops to and stays between 1000 and 1100 RPM in either Reverse or Drive gears . . (with or without loads like radio, A/C etc)
4. Idle stays at 1200 in Park
5. Idle fluctuates between 1200 and 800 while in Neutral Gear .. (happens in neutral only)
6. Car surges forward even when am braking . . .or at a complete stop while still in drive .. I'm developing aching feet holding down d brake pedal with so much force.
7. Check engine light is on . . scanned multiple times, no codes. Light has been cleared mutliple time, only to reappear, and when scanned, still zero codes, zero pending codes too.
8. Car guzzles fuel like no tomorrow . . . Maryland to Oshodi and 10L is gone . . .


How to resolve this?

Thanks.

Gazzuzz
Siena

There are a number of things that can cause this but why not go to gazzuzz's workshop so he can sort out your problem since you are in Lagos.

I guess it's your best bet. He's a staunch member of this forum.

U must be using a bad scanner. The car should throw up an engine code. What work was recently done on this car. Did ur mechanic tamper with ur throttle body or throttle position sensor. Problem maybe around throttle body, throttle position sensor or maf. Try to see that u get the car scanned. Showing check engine light means there is a recorded error message. Get a good scanner that will pull the code.

bravolad:
There are a number of things that can cause this but why not go to gazzuzz's workshop so he can sort out your problem since you are in Lagos.

I guess it's your best bet. He's a staunch member of this forum.

Good advice. But we are all learning. Let's do little brainstorming before referring him to gazzuz. At least let gazzuz come and drop some hint for us to learn from before he proceeds to his workshop. If we push everyone immediately a problem is reported without brainstorming, no one will learn.

Look, usually this type of situation happens when there is a carbon build up on the throttle body, inspect and clean the throttle body and see what happens, another cause for this is vacuum leak, that is rogue unmetered air getting into the engine, bypassing the Mass Air Flow sensor, or that the MAF is dirty or OTHER CAUSES TOO NUMEROUS TO MENTION (lolz), BTW you need to scan not only for fault codes but live data.
If you don't know how to do it or go about it never worry yourself, these things were built by men like you, there is no hidden thing. Just go to YouTube and query how to Clean throttle body of a car.

^^^
The scanner is able to stream live data . . . what exactly do i check for in the live data ?

Yes, i can see the throttle body, but the way it's positioned is scary . . .

I am afraid, while cleaning it myself, the cleaning fluid might actually drip inward along with the dirt . . and cause more damage.

Unless i of course bring out the whole throttle body, and i dont have the tools for that.

makavele:
^^^
The scanner is able to stream live data . . . what exactly do i check for in the live data ?

Yes, i can see the throttle body, but the way it's positioned is scary . . .

I am afraid, while cleaning it myself, the cleaning fluid might actually drip inward along with the dirt . . and cause more damage.

Unless i of course bring out the whole throttle body, and i dont have the tools for that.

just visit this site

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhCSd-T4aSY&itct=CCsQpDAYACITCLuZqZT8i8wCFUuRFgodbDQMz1I2aG93IHRvIGNsZWFuIHRoZSB0aHJvdHRsZSBib2R5IHRvIHJlc3RvcmUgaWRsZSBxdWFsaXR5&client=mv-google&gl=US&hl=en

chukel:
Good advice. But we are all learning. Let's do little brainstorming before referring him to gazzuz. At least let gazzuz come and drop some hint for us to learn from before he proceeds to his workshop. If we push everyone immediately a problem is reported without brainstorming, no one will learn.

I couldn't agree more @Chukel.

I think a dirty throttle body can cause high idling.

you don't have to be afraid of anything. Or you can disconnect the air tube, take a peice of cloth, wet it with kerosene or gasoline and clean the butterfly plate and the wall surrounding it, but using a 10 millimeter L Pipe can easily remove the four screws, then remove the connector and other things (use a paint or maker or something to help you remember where everything goes before disconnecting anything) then bring it out and clean it just as you will see in the video.
and for the live data, I will leave Mr. Matt to explain it to you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WnM_NsOtd8&itct=CDEQpDAYACITCJrB9pX_i8wCFUYJFgodH68EjFIedGhlIHNlY3JldCBvZiBlbmdpbmUgZGlhZ25vc2lz&client=mv-google&gl=US&hl=en

part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cARQ0jZZ4Qc&itct=CC8QpDAYASITCJrB9pX_i8wCFUYJFgodH68EjFIedGhlIHNlY3JldCBvZiBlbmdpbmUgZGlhZ25vc2lz&client=mv-google&gl=US&hl=en
pay attention very well and you will be glad you did.

cocoduck:
......

quite long and informative; will try 1st thing in the morning

thanks

makavele:


quite long and informative; will try 1st thing in the morning

thanks

na small small monkey dey eat banana, na small small yo go dey eat hot soup, so don't try to swallow it whole, instead absorb them in little chunks

cocoduck:
na small small monkey dey eat banana, na small small yo go dey eat hot soup, so don't try to swallow it whole, instead absorb them in little chunks

So i checked the live data this morning . . lest i forgot , i hooked up the scanner and got a P0016 (Crankshaft Position; Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 1 Sensor A ) . .

As for live data ..

Short Term Fuel Trim = 0.0 %
Long Term Fuel Trim = 14.1 %

So i am thinking over time, the vehicle's computer has adjusted to pumping 14.1% extra fuel . . Mehn, that's a lot oh

I am attaching pictures for clarity . .

Don't know the next step to take oooo

1. Error Code

2. RPM in either drive or reverse gears

3. RPM in either Park or Neutral

here is the next info you need
www.obd-codes.com/p0016

since you don't have the required tools needed, just take it to a technician, armed with this info the further diagnosis and repair will be easy on both you and your pocket.
before anything, can your scanner portray the live data in graph format? If yes, then go to it and check which is dropping out, and you must do it while cranking the engine. If not, you can get (I did not say buy, you know what I mean) better scan tool like the maxidas from any shop and check the live signals coming from the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor, don't rush and buy any part yet.

Makavele, ur MAF values are high. That maf is not healthy.

cocoduck:
here is the next info you need
www.obd-codes.com/p0016....

decided to get down 'n dirty today . . and here's what i did .

1. managed to access the throttle body and kept it with open with key in ignition; engine off, gas pedal depressed.
after cleaning the T. Body; the RPM jumped to 2300+ at idle ...

2. so i removed the whole gas pedal assembly . . and RPM was back to factory spec. . hovering around 800 at idle
and 600-750+ with load . . test drove it, and it drove fine, buh couldnt accelerate obviously.

3. a close look at the gas pedal assembly, i found out that the throttle position sensor, came loose and was wobbling . .so i had to tighten all bolts on the assembly; and also gave the pedal some slack . .

4. after coupling everything back together . . car idles around 800+ in neutral or park
and idles around 700+ with loads + gear.

5. I cleared the Crankshaft error code; i dont know if it would re-appear . .

Meanwhile, my Longterm Fuel Trim is still at 14% . . how do i make it go back to the normal 0% +- 5% ?

@chukel
I guess, I have to change the MAF, right ?

cocoduck:
here is the next info you need
www.obd-codes.com/p0016

before anything, can your scanner portray the live data in graph format? If yes, then go to it and check which is dropping out, and you must do it while cranking the engine. If not, you can get (I did not say buy, you know what I mean) better scan tool like the maxidas from any shop and check the live signals coming from the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor, don't rush and buy any part yet.

Yes, the scanner can output live data in graphical format . . .
Okay i will do just that .

Makavele clean the maf first. Spray generously with maf cleaner or soak in methylated spirit. Gazzuz, ur presence is needed here pls.

chukel:
Makavele clean the maf first. Spray generously with maf cleaner or soak in methylated spirit. Gazzuzz, ur presence is needed here pls.

I dont have a MAF cleaner . . . so i will go the methylated spirit route . .
what figures should i be looking at for a healthy MAF ?

makavele:


decided to get down 'n dirty today . . and here's what i did .

1. managed to access the throttle body and kept it with open with key in ignition; engine off, gas pedal depressed.
after cleaning the T. Body; the RPM jumped to 2300+ at idle ...

2. so i removed the whole gas pedal assembly . . and RPM was back to factory spec. . hovering around 800 at idle
and 600-750+ with load . . test drove it, and it drove fine, buh couldnt accelerate obviously.

3. a close look at the gas pedal assembly, i found out that the throttle position sensor, came loose and was wobbling . .so i had to tighten all bolts on the assembly; and also gave the pedal some slack . .

4. after coupling everything back together . . car idles around 800+ in neutral or park
and idles around 700+ with loads + gear.

5. I cleared the Crankshaft error code; i dont know if it would re-appear . .

Meanwhile, my Longterm Fuel Trim is still at 14% . . how do i make it go back to the normal 0% +- 5% ?

@chukel
I guess, I have to change the MAF, right ?

brother, very very good job, People like you are rare, you did a very very nice job.
for the fuel trim, just keep the car on for some minutes and keep and eye on the LTFT data it will slowly go back to below 10%, or depress the acceleration pedal and keep an eye also on the LTFT data, it suppose to go down to normal. The PCM will relearn and adjust gradually.
You stay strong, my guy, I like people like you.

It won't necessarily get down to below 5% because of the age of the engine, anything below 10% is good, but if it does, glory be to God.

your car is a drive by wire system, if it is don't you ever take her to a kazeem.

cocoduck:
your car is a drive by wire system, if it is don't you ever take her to a kazeem.

Yes, it is a drive by wire . . . maybe i will drive for a couple of days and see if the computer will adjust/re-learn

Thank u so much ... the youtube videos really helped ... took me about 45mins to loosen the T.Body though coupled with some bruised fingers

makavele:


Yes, it is a drive by wire . . . maybe i will drive for a couple of days and see if the computer will adjust/re-learn

Thank u so much ... the youtube videos really helped ... took me about 45mins to loosen the T.Body though coupled with some bruised fingers

Good that is how it usually is, BTW try as much as you can to watch other related videos so that you can get a thorough understanding of this electronic Engine management system of a thing, go to channels like South Main auto, scanner dinner, Schrödinger's box and motoYam, you will never be overwhelmed with any car problem remember, take the info little by little, You stay strong.
There is no knowledge that is not power.

makavele:


I dont have a MAF cleaner . . . so i will go the methylated spirit route . .
what figures should i be looking at for a healthy MAF ?

normal value depends on ur rpm. At normal Idle rpm, u should get around 3 - 3.3g/s. This increases with increasing rpm.

chukel:
normal value depends on ur rpm. At normal Idle rpm, u should get around 3 - 3.3g/s. This increases with increasing rpm.

also the size of the engine matters a lot a V6 will need more air than a 4 banger, like wise a v8 will need more than both the V6 and the 4 banger. STOICIOMETRY 14.7 parts of air to one part of fuel.

cocoduck:
also the size of the engine matters a lot a V6 will need more air than a 4 banger, like wise a v8 will need more than both the V6 and the 4 banger. STOICIOMETRY 14.7 parts of air to one part of fuel.

Morning sir, morning all ..

A little update:

Drove the vehicle yesterday for 3 hours amidst Lagos traffic . . and all was fine . . except for one situation . .

The gas pedal doesn't seem to respond when i step it on lightly (moving from a dead-stop) . . I am just trying to tap the pedal lightly, but it doesn't respond, not until i push it in more . .

If i don't get it right, the car races . . . and I don't want to be racing the engine from stoplights . . .

Looks to me like a bad TPS or probably, i f**ked up (excuse my language) the calibration of the TPS when i took out the gas pedal assembly.

it hesitates a moment before moving forward, okay
still use the live data to determine what is going wrong, analyse the TPS signal graph it should be a smooth curve as you depress it further, how about the fuel trim, because it could be a vacuum leak due to excess air, if you depress the gas pedal and the LTFT improves, then it is vacuum leak, if it doesn't, then it may be a fuel delivery issue, does the engine vibrate? When last did you change your fuel filter? Did you clean the MAF as somebody suggested? if not do so to eliminate that variable. Download and watch that video again, and other videos in his channel's play list, you will be better equiped.

cocoduck:
it hesitates a moment before moving forward, okay
still use the live data to determine what is going wrong, analyse the TPS signal graph it should be a smooth curve as you depress it further, how about the fuel trim, because it could be a vacuum leak due to excess air, if you depress the gas pedal and the LTFT improves, then it is vacuum leak, if it doesn't, then it may be a fuel delivery issue, does the engine vibrate? When last did you change your fuel filter? Did you clean the MAF as somebody suggested? if not do so to eliminate that variable. Download and watch that video again, and other videos in his channel's play list, you will be better equiped.

Good morning

Update:

So i tested the TPS with the graphical live data . . it doesnt give a smooth curve as i depress it . . rather, i get erratic sharp high and low points
. . While driving this morning, i parked and checked the LTFT and it was at 10% .. i was happy. Only to check it when i arrived my destination; and it was sitting at 12%. When i depress the gas pedal, the LTFT doesnt move, but the STFT dips to about -3.8%. With the car in idle, STFT hovers around 0% and 1%. Another thing i noticed, I left the house around 7am and got to my destination at about 2hrs 30mins later; yet the temperature guage was sitting way low beyond normal. Even with full A/C and traffic. Is this a cause for the heavy fuel consumption. Pls check attached pic

makavele:


Good morning

Update:

So i tested the TPS with the graphical live data . . it doesnt give a smooth curve as i depress it . . rather, i get erratic sharp high and low points
. . While driving this morning, i parked and checked the LTFT and it was at 10% .. i was happy. Only to check it when i arrived my destination; and it was sitting at 12%. When i depress the gas pedal, the LTFT doesnt move, but the STFT dips to about -3.8%. With the car in idle, STFT hovers around 0% and 1%. Another thing i noticed, I left the house around 7am and got to my destination at about 2hrs 30mins later; yet the temperature guage was sitting way low beyond normal. Even with full A/C and traffic. Is this a cause for the heavy fuel consumption. Pls check attached pic

I strongly believe that the ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor is not doing what it's supposed to be doing, using your scan tool check the engine temperature data at cold start and watch if it rises, if you have a thermometer check the engine temperature when the engine is hot and compare it with engine temperature data from the scan tool.

cocoduck:
I strongly believe that the ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor is not doing what it's supposed to be doing, using your scan tool check the engine temperature data at cold start and watch if it rises, if you have a thermometer check the engine temperature when the engine is hot and compare it with engine temperature data from the scan tool.

I will check the temp @ cold start; although when i arrived, i used the scanner (its always in the car) and i got 67 degrees Celsius . . somebody said at least it should be around 87 - 90 for optimal performance . . . as a matter of fact, 67 was because i was using the A/C . . .
without the A/C, i think it stays at 50-something . . av seen it before . . .
even when i arrived my destination, the bonnet was still cold to touch . . slight warm
in other cars av driven, just after 5mins, u dare not sit on the bonnet; or suffer burns

even if you don't have a thermometer, you should be able to tell the difference in temperature, if there is, then the check that you did not tamper with the sensor or its connector, check and clean the connector,
For the TPS, the graph line must me smooth, because this device is a rheostat or better known as potentiometer, Google the word potentiometer. Your engine just has some little corrections here and there to be done to be fine.