Bismillah-ir rahman-ir rahim
The khalifah of muslims has is unanimously agreed is their supreme judge on every aspect of religion,like the Messenger of Allah. As such, Muslims are required to refer all their religious problems and disputes to him for judgment, and his verdicts are binding over them

This function necessitates that the khalifah be the most knowledgeable of the ummah throughout his administration. Otherwise, he would be unfit for this grand office. Issuing correct religions verdicts on all types of religious questions and disputes, from all calibres of persons. Certainly requires unparalleled knowledge and wisdom

This article address some aspect of khalifah umar b. Al-khattab verdicts on religious issues to see how fit and knowledgeable he is for this grand office

It is left to readers to reach this conclusion by virtue of their own judgment and ability to discerns the truth and to avoid the shackles of compromise

As you read remember that the Mind is like a parachute, it works best when open

chapter1
whosoever does NOT give rulings,verdicts,judgements,or commands based upon what Allah has revealed,SUCH ARE THE INFEDELS-qur'an5:44

During his(umar) rule, a man came to Him with his personal religious problem. Imam muslim records what ensued
A man came to 'umar and said: "I have seminal discharges and I cannot find water (to do the ghusl)". He ('umar) said, "DO NOT PERFORM SALAH." so 'Ammar said "do you remember, O amir al-muminin,when I and you were in a military detachment and we had seminal discharges and could not find water and you(umar) did not perform salat. As for me, I rolled myself in dust and performed the salat .so the prophet(phub) said, "it was enough for you to strike the soil with your hands and then blow and then wipe your face and palms"
umar said: "fear Allah, O ammar! Therefore, he (ammar) replied "if you so like,I would not narrate it"-sahih muslim (beirut:dar ihya al-turath al-arabi)-vol1p280,#112

There exists some really interesting facts in this narration that needs dissection

1. Umar and ammar were both together in a militart detactment, & they had seminal discharges
2. Ammar rolled himself in the soil in order to cleanse himself for salat,due to lack of water. He had no devine guidance for the act
3. Umar refrained from offering any salat as long as he could not find water
4. Both recounted their experiences to the messenger of Allah(pbuh) who taught them tayammum as the correct step should they encounter a similar situation
5. During Umar's rule, a man came to him with the same problem that he personally had experienced. But rather than offer to him the solution of tayammus as taught by the prophet, 'umar instructed the man with his own initial wrong step!
6. Ammar attempted to remind 'umar of the sunnah in such situation. But, the later simply did not want
to hear about it!

There are a number of questions here. first and foremost, did umar deliberately reject the sunnah or not? this depends upon whether he actually remembered the scenario involving him and ammar. If he did, and still gave the ruling that he gave, then he would have been contemptuous of the sunnah. Moreover, even if he had completely forgotten it, why did he not act on Ammar's reminder? From the look of it, he was not convinced by Amamar's narration. He most probably had vert serious doubts about the accuracy of ammar's hadith. Therefore , he saw no real reason to alter his decision on the matter

So the best case scenario is that 'Umar had absolutely forgotten then incident of tayammum, which involved him personally and directly. In addition, when Ammar attempted to revive his memory of the event, he had grave trust issues on the latter's report. Therefore, he did not remember, and there was no other reliable source to bring back his memories of the incident
The worst-case scenario is umar actually remember the hadith, or was at least reminded of it by Ammar. Yet he thought that his personal solution to the issue before him outweighed the sunnah of the messenger of Allah. As such, he was in contempt of Muhammad and his teachings

Going with the best-case scenario. 'Umar had completely forgotten and was not successfully reminded. This fact cast a mammoth shadow of doubt over umar's memory power. Since he forget the incident of tayammum so completely and absolutely,it is extremely uncertain that he was able to remember many- if not most- other teachings of the prophet that were necessary in his discharge of his day-to-day judicial functions. The end result is that he lacked the requisite scholarly prowess for the office. Since the natural product of absolutely forgetting anything is complete ignorance of it

Another problem that arises is why did umar issue a ruling In the shari'ah with his personal opinion,is ignorance an excuse for adoption of personal opinions In the Laws of Allah? The Qur'an answers

whosoever does Not give rulings,verdicts,judgment,or commands based upon what Allah has revealed, SUCH ARE THE INFEDEL/UNBELIEVERS

Hence,giving a ruling by personal opinion amounts to kufr according to Allah. Why did umar take such an extreme risk? He should simply remain silent, or sought the advice of superior jurists .cause his person opinion was very wrong step which saves neither him, nor the man who came to him for judgment

Perhaps,the most disturbing part is that the ruling of tayammum is explicitly stated at two different places in the Qur'an

And if you are ill, or on a journey, or one of you comes after answering the call to nature, or you have had sexual intercourse with womenand you cannot find water,perform tayammum with clean soiland rub therewith your faces and hands-quran4:43 and 5:6

It is apparent. Despite the double presence of the
ruling of tayammum in the qur'an
'umar did NOT know it. Which raises a BLOOD-RED flag on umar's knowledge of the Book of Allah. Obviously, he is not a hafiz of the Qur'an. Secondly, his knowledge of its verses,and of al-fiqh, must be very deficient and cannot be trusted ,AS TAYAMMUM IS ONLY ONE OF THE BEGINNER'S COURSES IN ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE

So having read this without sentiment what is your judgment about umar fitness for the position of khalifah

BETATRON:
to be continued in shaa Allah

Please give a correct reference of this hadith

udatso:

Please give a correct reference of this hadith

The correct reference has been given. However you can check it up online or phone application:
Sahih Muslim, Kitab Haidha (Book of menstruation), chapter of tayamum, hadith 368; Book 3 Hadith 141, Book 3 hadith 718
www.sunnah.com/muslim/3

Unfortunately, the very same report with same sanad (chain) is documented in Sahih Bukhari with Tahrif (distortion). The respond of Umar, La Tu solli - Do not pray is missing in the report.
See Sahih Bukhari, Kitab Tayammum (book of tayammum), book 7 hadith 334

Below are the screenshots of both:

The most knowledgeable need not be the khalifa.....

BETATRON:
to be continued in shaa Allah

A desperate but extremely feeble attempt!!!

Typical methodology of deviants.

Narrated Anas bin Malik
The Prophet once climbed the mountain of Uhud with Abu Bakr, `Umar and `Uthman. The mountain shook with them. The Prophet said (to the mountain), "Be firm, O Uhud! For on you there are no more than a Prophet, a Siddiq and two martyrs.

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar
Allah's Apostle said. "While (in a dream), I was standing by a well, drawing water from it. Abu Bakr and `Umar came to me. Abu Bakr took the bucket (from me) and drew one or two buckets of water, and there was some weakness in his drawing. May Allah forgive him. Then Ibn Al-Khattab took the bucket from Abu Bakr, and the bucket turned into a very large one in his hands. I had never seen such a mighty person amongst the people as him in performing such hard work. He drew so much water that the people drank to their satisfaction and watered their camels." (Wahab, a sub-narrator said, "till their camels drank and knelt down."

lexiconkabir:
The most knowledgeable need not be the khalifa.....

Abi ooo... And he even claims that it's unanimous!!! So Sick and Sickening!!!

The fact that a person knows something which I don't know doesn't make me a stark ignorant. Isn't it only Allah that knows everything?!

Even Musa alyhissolaat wassalaam traveled till he complained of tiredness just because he wanted to get some knowledge from a person who was less knowledgeable than Musa.

And the Messenger alyhissolaat wassalaam even reported narration from tameem bn Auws in Soheeh Muslim.

May Allah protect us from evil creeds.

Narrated Ibn `Abbas
While I was standing amongst the people who were invoking Allah for `Umar bin Al-Khattab who was lying (dead) on his bed, a man behind me rested his elbows on my shoulder and said, "(O `Umar!) May Allah bestow His Mercy on you. I always hoped that Allah will keep you with your two companions, for I often heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I, Abu Bakr and `Umar were (somewhere). I, Abu Bakr and `Umar did (something). I, Abu Bakr and `Umar set out.' So I hoped that Allah will keep you with both of them." I turned back to see that the speaker was `Ali bin Abi Talib.

Narrated Abu Huraira
While we were with Allah's Apostle he said, "While I was sleeping, I saw myself in Paradise, and suddenly I saw a woman performing ablution beside a palace. I asked, 'For whom is this palace?' They replied, 'It is for `Umar.' Then I remembered `Umar's Ghira (self-respect) and went away quickly." `Umar wept and said, O Allah's Apostle! How dare I think of my ghira (self-respect) being offended by you?

All Narrations are from Soheeh Bukharee, Book of Virtues of The Companions

Narrated ‘Abdur Rahman bin Abza: A man came to ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) and said, “I became Junub but no water was available.” ‘Ammar bin Yasir (may Allah be pleased with him) said to ‘Umar, “Do you remember that you and I (became Junub while both of us) were together on a journey and you didn’t offer Salat (prayer) but I rolled myself on the ground and offered Salat? I informed the Prophet (peace be upon him) about it and he said, ‘It would have been sufficient for you to do like this.’ The Prophet (peace be upon him) then stroked lightly the earth with his hands and then blew off the dust and passed his hands over his face and hands.” (Bukhari H: 338; Muslim H: [818] 110 – (368) narrated by Shaqiq; Tirmidhi H: 144 graded Hasan; Ibn Majah H: 569; Nasa’I H: 313)

The hadith has more than one narration. So it's actually unfair to judge him based on just one version

Anyone who has ever been in a position of giving fatwa will definitely know that giving answer to questions is sometimes dependent on the condition of the questioner, the environment he is and the era he lives.

So, it's easy for someone to label a scholar as an infidel by saying he permitted some people to eat pork. Without having the extra information which the scholar possess about the questioners condition.

Examples of this are many, Two people asked Ibn Abbass the same question (if I kill someone else will Allah forgive me?) he told one of them yes and the other no.

Because the first one had already committed it and Ibn Abbass knew this because of the remorse he saw on his face. The Man wanted to repent so he needed hope.

As for the second, Ibn Abbass said; I saw evil (anger or hatred) in his eyes meaning he wanted a fatwa that would encourage him on to carry on his evil act.

Another example is this;

Some Deviants now tell the people, during Ramadan you can travel with the intention of nothing else than to break your fast i.e if by 2pm I'm feeling hungry or sexually aroused, I will just board a bus and go to Ibadan eat and enjoy intercourse with my wife because I'm a traveller. This is a very evil attempt to evade and manoeuvre the laws of Allah!!

The mufti/khalifah can simply tell the people not to break fast for a journey less than a certain kilometers or duration to overcome this evil fatwa.

My point is, Umar issued the fatwa based on the condition of the questioner. This condition might not be stated in every report because the lesson and point of attention every narrator intends at the time of report varies.

udatso:

As you have rightly said, the hadith has many versions. So it's actually unfair to judge him based on just one version

What I thought. Actually there is more to it. Op probably doesn't get the whole clue yet. Hopefully I will be back here to contribute.

And even if this is the only valid hadith to this effect, still does not in anyways relegates his status as kalifah. A kalifah does not denotes the most knowledge able nor are the kulafah infallible.

udatso:

The hadith has many more than one narration. So it's actually unfair to judge him based on just one version

Exactly, it's only an ignorant or deviant fellow that will explain hadiths without first searching for and combining the different narrations so that the whole story will be clear.

lexiconkabir:
The most knowledgeable need not be the khalifa.....

o dear!! Meaning any body can be khalifa and just any body can occupy the office of the prophet

Hence resulting in innovations such as is seen above,,what qualifies a man as khalifah if not his unparalleled knowledge,,why will an ignorant fellow rule over the muslim,,isn't islam a religion based on knowledge?.should we follow some1 who follow his whims and caprice instead of judging according to the koran and sunnah of the prophet? ....the holy koran answers

ask does who know about the heavenly books if you do not know-16vs43-----imagine installing an ignorant person as a kaliph(similar to letting some1 who doesn't know the koran lead the prayer) and some1 comes to ask him a question and due to his stark ignorance he gives a wrong verdict just like umar as done------this leads to mockery of the good work of the prophet and instead of taking his followers to the promise land he drives them into a state of confusion.

How will such a person even deal with the non-muslims to when involve him in a debate or dialogue?---he is the leader of the muslims and they will judge the muslims behavior and character with how he behaves..if such a person is ignorant will you blame the non-muslims for tagging the entire muslims as ignorant lots----"as is always said---to whom much is given much is expected

The koran also states in surat az-zumar--are those who know like does who don't know?

I don't think it is in anyway correct for an ignorant person to rule over the muslim community, I don't think it is correct in any community either

Newnas:


Abi ooo... And he even claims that it's unanimous!!! So Sick and Sickening!!!

The fact that a person knows something which I don't know doesn't make me a stark ignorant. Isn't it only Allah that knows everything?!

Even Musa alyhissolaat wassalaam traveled till he complained of tiredness just because he wanted to get some knowledge from a person who was less knowledgeable than Musa.

And the Messenger alyhissolaat wassalaam even reported narration from tameem bn Auws in Soheeh Muslim.

May Allah protect us from evil creeds.

"you will not ask me about ANY verse in the Book of Allah,or about Any sunnah from the messenger of Allah,except that I will inform you about it(by imam Ali)--abu al-fida ismail b. Umar b. Kathir al qurshi al-Dimashqi, tafsir al-qur'an al-Azim (dar al-taybah li al-nashr wa al-tawzi 2nd edition 1420H) [annotator : sami muhammad salamah] vol7p413

Here we have some1 proclaiming his knowledge of every verse of the koran and any sunnah of the prophet-----and on the other hand we have umar who either forgets the sunnah of the prophet or prefers his own incorrect verdicts to that of the prophet and certainly doesn't have full knowledge of the koran and hadith

Between these groups of people who is more fit to sail the muslim ummah to the promise land?

Does musa give wrong verdicts when asked questions pertaining to Allah creed??

BETATRON:
o dear!! Meaning any body can be khalifa and just any body can occupy the office of the prophet

Hence resulting in innovations such as is seen above,,what qualifies a man as khalifah if not his unparalleled knowledge,,why will an ignorant fellow rule over the muslim,,isn't islam a religion based on knowledge?.should we follow some1 who follow his whims and caprice instead of judging according to the koran and sunnah of the prophet? ....the holy koran answers

ask does who know about the heavenly books if you do not know-16vs43-----imagine installing an ignorant person as a kaliph(similar to letting some1 who doesn't know the koran lead the prayer) and some1 comes to ask him a question and due to his stark ignorance he gives a wrong verdict just like umar as done------this leads to mockery of the good work of the prophet and instead of taking his followers to the promise land he drives them into a state of confusion.

How will such a person even deal with the non-muslims to when involve him in a debate or dialogue?---he is the leader of the muslims and they will judge the muslims behavior and character with how he behaves..if such a person is ignorant will you blame the non-muslims for tagging the entire muslims as ignorant lots----"as is always said---to whom much is given much is expected

The koran also states in surat az-zumar--are those who know like does who don't know?

I don't think it is in anyway correct for an ignorant person to rule over the muslim community, I don't think it is correct in any community either

A more knowledgeable person was alive in the time of Musa(A.S)...yet Musa was the imam at his time because all prophets are the imams of their ummah.....Talut was made a king by Allah even when a prophet was in existence in his time......

lexiconkabir:


A more knowledgeable person was alive in the time of Musa(A.S)...yet Musa was the imam at his time because all prophets are the imams of their ummah.....Talut was made a king by Allah even when a prophet was in existence in his time......

fine..musa wasn't the most knowledgeable of his time...an important question is...does musa give a wrong verdict pertaining Allah's creed?....how is that and excuse for umar who gives a wrong verdict and doesn't even have enough knowledge about the teachings of the koran sunnah as is evident in the above chapter and will be shown in subsequent chapters

Another question about musa not being the most knowledgeable is...were these things that musa was ignorant about things that were revealed to him or things that weren't...was he ignorant because he was lazy or because he wasn't shown?

Compare this with umar...umar had the teachings of the koran and the hadith at his disposal and could have educated himself in-depth about it in such a way that he becomes well versed..

Another point is umar was even thought these things by the prophet but he seemed as though he wasn't paying attention to the prophet

You keep diving deeper and deeper into your misguidance!
I don't have time to waste with deviants like you again.
May Allah make it easy for you to repent before death catches up with you!!!

BETATRON:
fine..musa wasn't the most knowledgeable of his time...an important question is...does musa give a wrong verdict pertaining Allah creed?....how is that and excuse for umar who gives a wrong verdict and doesn't even have enough knowledge about the teachings of the koran sunnah as is evident in the above chapter and will be shown in subsequent chapters

Dont drift into something else....your initial argument is...the most knowledgeable should be the khalifa....stick to that sir!

udatso:

The hadith has more than one narration. So it's actually unfair to judge him based on just one version

Sorry! What do you mean more than one narration? Bukhari and Muslim documented the same sanad (chain). One did tahrif (distortion) to his own, the other left his own as it is. However for the sake of argument, lets say the report has different chains. One report is however detailed than the other (as in the case of Buhari vs Muslim), the fact that both chain are authentic, then you need to use the detailed report.

Furthermore, if you look at the report in Bukhari and others, you will realize "something is missing" in the construction. And you can ask yourself why Ammar talking to Umar in that manner when a question is directed to Commander of the faithful? Ammar did not even answer the question rather he "rebutt" Umar of his response which Bukhari erased.

Now, udatso and Empiree, I can understand the urge to defend esp a big fish. But its a lost course. Reports are just too many against him overruling the law of Allah and His messenger.

1. Imam al-Nasai documents:

Muḥammad b. ‘Alī b. al-Ḥasan b. Shaqīq – my father – Abū Ḥamzah – Muṭarrif – Salamah b. Kuhayl – Ṭāwus – Ibn ‘Abbās:
I heard ‘Umar saying, “I swear by Allāh, I forbid you from Mut'ah (of hajj) while it certainly is in the Book of Allāh and the Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him, practised it.” He meant the performance of ‘Umrah during Ḥajj.

‘Allāmah al-Albānī says: It has a Sahih chain.

Source: al-Mujtabā min al-Sunan (Ḥalab: Maktab al-Maṭbū’āt al-Islāmiyyah; 2nd edition, 1406 H) [annotator: Muḥammad Nāṣir al-Dīn al-Albānī], vol. 5, p. 153, # 2736
Online: www.sunnah.com/nasai/24 Kitab al-hajj, Book 24 hadith 2736


2. Muḥammad b. al-Muthannā and Ibn Bashār – Muḥammad b. Ja’far – Shu’bah – al-Ḥakam – ‘Amārah b. ‘Umayr – Ibrāhīm b. Abī Mūsā – Abū Mūsā:

I used to give fatwas in favour of Ḥajj al-Tamattu’. So, a person said to me, “Exercise restraint in delivering some of your fatwas, for you do not know what the Commander of the Believers has INNOVATED in the Ḥajj rites during your absence.” I met him subsequently and asked him and he replied, “I know that the Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him, and his Ṣaḥābah performed it. But, I hate that the married persons should have intercourse with their wives under the shade of trees, and then set out for Ḥajj with water trickling from their heads.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim (Beirut: Dār Iḥyā al-Turāth al-‘Arabī) [annotator: Muḥammad Fuād ‘Abd al-Bāqī], vol. 2, p. 896, # 1222 (157)

Imam Ahmad in his musnad and Imam Nasai in his Sunan also document this hadith - online source: www.sunnah.com/nasai/24
Kitab al-Hajj, Book 24 hadith 2738

Interestingly, here is the report of Imran ibn Hussein:

3. Imam Nasai again disclose:

Ibrahim b. Yaqub - Uthman b. Umar - Ismail b. Muslim - Muhammad b. Wasi - Mutarif:

Imran b. Hussein said to me, "The Messenger of Allah performed Umrah and Hajj together, and we performed Umrah and Hajj together with him, and whoever says anything different, that is his own personal opinion"

Source: online source: www.sunnah.com/nasai/24
Sunan Nasai, Kitab al-Hajj, Book 24 hadith 2739

NB: Trust me brothers the above are just tip of the iceberg.

Quran says:

[33:36] Al-Aḥzāb: 36
"And neither a believing man nor a believing woman has (this) right that, when Allah and His Messenger have given judgment (or a command) about an affair, they should exercise their own choice in work of theirs. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger certainly loses his way into open error. "

lexiconkabir:


Dont drift into something else....your initial argument is...the most knowledgeable should be the khalifa....stick to that sir!

I'm not drifting sir but you apparently didn't read a lot into the article....a major reason why umar should be the most knowledgeable is to enable him "issue correct verdict on all types of religious questions and disputes"...clearly stated in the write-up....and the article showed the wrong verdict umar issued hence questioning and casting a mammoth shadow on the validity of his kalifah


Look something interesting was said by umar when installing abu bakr as caliph----we will follow you because you are our sayyid, and the BEST OF US, and the most beloved of us to the messenger of Allah,(pbuh)-----he wanted to make it clear through it that: WHAT IS ORDAINED IS TO GIVE AUTHORITY TO THE BEST, and you are the best so we will follow you--shaykh ibn taymiyyah- minhaj al-sunnah al nabawiyyah (muasassat Qurtubah;1st edition ,1406H) [annotator: Dr. Muhammad rashad salim], vol 8p565

It the case of best lead applies to abu bakr confirmed by umar himself what do you mean when you say otherwise as regards to umar?

Newnas:
You keep diving deeper and deeper into your misguidance!

I don't have time to waste with deviants like you again.

May Allah make it easy for you to repent before death catches up with you!!!

you have the option to either make positive and intellectual contributions or continue the rigmarole

Amin---May Allah make it easy for all of us to repent before death catches up with us anyways

AlBaqir:


Sorry! What do you mean more than one narration?

In one narration, there Is لا تصل. In the other there isn't.

Bukhari and Muslim documented the same sanad (chain).

True

One did tahrif (distortion) to his own, the other left his own as it is.[\quote]
The tahrif could be in either of the two. We can't really say which one.
[quote]However for the sake of argument, lets say the report has different chains. One report is however detailed than the other (as in the case of Buhari vs Muslim), the fact that both chain are authentic, then you need to use the detailed report

Is there a proof for this form of selection? Is it the norms in picking one of two conflicting hadiths to always pick the one with more details?
Let's be realistic here. A shi'i would prefer the one that vilifies umar (radiyallahu anhu) and a Sunni would favour the other.

Now, udatso and Empiree, I can understand the urge to defend esp a big fish. But its a lost course. Reports are just too many against him overruling the law of Allah and His messenger.

1. Imam al-Nasai documents:

Muḥammad b. ‘Alī b. al-Ḥasan b. Shaqīq – my father – Abū Ḥamzah – Muṭarrif – Salamah b. Kuhayl – Ṭāwus – Ibn ‘Abbās:
I heard ‘Umar saying, “I swear by Allāh, I forbid you from Mut'ah (of hajj) while it certainly is in the Book of Allāh and the Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him, practised it.” He meant the performance of ‘Umrah during Ḥajj.

‘Allāmah al-Albānī says: It has a Sahih chain.

Source: al-Mujtabā min al-Sunan (Ḥalab: Maktab al-Maṭbū’āt al-Islāmiyyah; 2nd edition, 1406 H) [annotator: Muḥammad Nāṣir al-Dīn al-Albānī], vol. 5, p. 153, # 2736
Online: www.sunnah.com/nasai/24 Kitab al-hajj, Book 24 hadith 2736


2. Muḥammad b. al-Muthannā and Ibn Bashār – Muḥammad b. Ja’far – Shu’bah – al-Ḥakam – ‘Amārah b. ‘Umayr – Ibrāhīm b. Abī Mūsā – Abū Mūsā:

I used to give fatwas in favour of Ḥajj al-Tamattu’. So, a person said to me, “Exercise restraint in delivering some of your fatwas, for you do not know what the Commander of the Believers has INNOVATED in the Ḥajj rites during your absence.” I met him subsequently and asked him and he replied, “I know that the Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him, and his Ṣaḥābah performed it. But, I hate that the married persons should have intercourse with their wives under the shade of trees, and then set out for Ḥajj with water trickling from their heads.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim (Beirut: Dār Iḥyā al-Turāth al-‘Arabī) [annotator: Muḥammad Fuād ‘Abd al-Bāqī], vol. 2, p. 896, # 1222 (157)

Imam Ahmad in his musnad and Imam Nasai in his Sunan also document this hadith - online source: www.sunnah.com/nasai/24
Kitab al-Hajj, Book 24 hadith 2738

Interestingly, here is the report of Imran ibn Hussein:

3. Imam Nasai again disclose:

Ibrahim b. Yaqub - Uthman b. Umar - Ismail b. Muslim - Muhammad b. Wasi - Mutarif:

Imran b. Hussein said to me, "The Messenger of Allah performed Umrah and Hajj together, and we performed Umrah and Hajj together with him, and whoever says anything different, that is his own personal opinion"

Source: online source: www.sunnah.com/nasai/24
Sunan Nasai, Kitab al-Hajj, Book 24 hadith 2739

NB: Trust me brothers the above are just tip of the iceberg.

Quran says:

[33:36] Al-Aḥzāb: 36
"And neither a believing man nor a believing woman has (this) right that, when Allah and His Messenger have given judgment (or a command) about an affair, they should exercise their own choice in work of theirs. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger certainly loses his way into open error. "

InshaAllah I will look into these

lexiconkabir:


A more knowledgeable person was alive in the time of Musa(A.S)...yet Musa was the imam at his time because all prophets are the imams of their ummah.....

Who was that? Khidr. If you say yes, then you are to prove to us that Khidr is of Musa's Ummah. Khidr was a "messenger of spiritual world sent to Musa. Peace be upon both.

lexiconkabir:

Talut was made a king by Allah even when a prophet was in existence in his time......

Those are very rare and exceptional case. Moreso it is a bullet to our arsenal that only Allah has the right to select leader not by election or one appointing the other. And in the case of Mawla Ali (alayhi Salam), there are direct text whereby he was appointed by Allah and His Messenger as the Khalifah after his master, Muhammad, salallahu alayhi wa Ahli . Here's one of many:

Imam Ibn Asim (d. 287) documents:

Muḥammad b. al-Muthannā – Yaḥyā b. Ḥammād – Abū ‘Awānah – Yaḥyā b. Salīm Abū Balj – ‘Amr b. Maymūn – Ibn ‘Abbās:
"The Messenger of Allah (s) said to 'Ali: "You are to me of the STATUS of Harun to Musa, with the exception that you are not a prophet. And you are MY KHALIFAH over every believer AFTER ME."

Dr. Al-Jawabirah says: Its chain is Hasan

Ref: {'Kitab al-Sunnah (Dar al-Sami'i li al-Nahr wa al-Tawhi) [annotator: Dr. Al-Jawabirah], vol. 1, p. 799 - 800, #1222}

# 'Allamah al-Albani also comments: Its chain is hasan (sound).

Ref: {Kitab Sunnah (al-Maktab al-Islami; 1st Edition, 1400H) [annotator: Nasir deen al-Albani], vol. 2, p. 565, #1188

# Imam al-Hakim (d. 403H) declares: This hadith has a SAHIH chain.
Ref: {Al-Mustadrak ala al-Sahihayn, vol. 3, p. 143, #4652}

* Imam al-Dhahabi (d. 748H) concurs with Imam al-Hakim: SAHIH (authentic).

# Allamah Ahmad Shakir: Its Chain is sahih
Ref: {Musnad Imam Ahmad (Dar alHadith, 1416H) [annotator: Ahmad Shakir] vol. 1, p. 331, #3062}

# Imam al-Busiri (d. 840H): A sahih chain
Ref: {Itihaf al-khiyarah al-Maharah bi Zawaid al-Masanid al-'Ashara, vol. 7, p. 184, #6630

BETATRON:
fine..musa wasn't the most knowledgeable of his time...

Its not fine o my brother Musa (alayhi Salam) was the most knowledgeable of his Ummah. Khidr is not from his Ummah.

BETATRON:
I'm not drifting sir but you apparently didn't read a lot into the article....a major reason why umar should be the most knowledgeable is to enable him "issue correct verdict on all types of religious questions and disputes"...clearly stated in the write-up....and the article showed the wrong verdict umar issued hence questioning and casting a mammoth shadow on the validity of his kalifah

Let me help you to understand what I believe other brothers are getting at. Your write up can be summarised into the following points and Some of these points Might have been valid if there was no second narration
1. The Khalifa or the leader must be the most knowledgeable
This was disproved by giving you Several examples from the story of musa (alaihi salaam g and khidr Etc.
Instead of admitting to the fact that you were wrong on making such assumptions, you immediately jumped to "....eh even if it is so, why so so and so so."
the other points you raised include umar (r. A) not listening to corrections, ma'aswiyat.. ....giving wrong fatwa. ...
You have to prove that the other hadith where there is omission Is ضعيف or موضوع before these points can even be considered

udatso:

In one narration, there Is لا تصل. In the other there isn't.

Exactly. Now observe brother. Imam Muslim (d. 261 H) was an understudy student of Imam Bukhari (d. 256 H). Imam Muslim had access to all his teacher's primary books of references that's why both their Sahih contain similar ahadith (both sanad and matn). And Alhamdulillah both are Sihahu in line with Sunni ilm hadith. So, obviously Imam Bukhari or whoever compiled it erased the phrase. There are lots of reports like that when you compare both with same sanad.

udatso:

Is there a proof for this form of selection? Is it the norms in picking one of two conflicting hadiths to always pick the one with more details?

There is no conflict whatsoever in the two report. Its a situation whereby one is detailed than the other. Let me cite example in the Quran. Sura al-Baqarah and many other suwar, Allah says "We command the angels to bow down for Adam, all of them bowed down except Iblis". However, surah kahf:50 gives additional info when Allah says "...and he (Iblis) was a Jinn..." This phrase complement other ayah and clarify them. This is part of Tafsir of Quran using Quran. And like I submit earlier, the text of Bukhari clearly reveal there is a missing link unless we are to sacrifice Ammar for being too forward, and Quran condemns that.

udatso:


Let's be realistic here. A shi'i would prefer the one that vilifies umar (radiyallahu anhu) and a Sunni would favour the other.

Are both not Sahih?

udatso:

Let me help you to understand what I believe other brothers are getting at. Your write up can be summarised into the following points and Some of these points Might have been valid if there was no second narration
1. The Khalifa or the leader must be the most knowledgeable

Udatso, it is a must for Khalifah of the Prophet to be the most Knowledgeable. Well in the case of Umar, he was an historical Khalifah but certainly not among the "Rightly Guided Khalifah (Khulafau Rashidun)". Let's take a look at the word of our Prophet.

There is a Narration in Musnad Ahmad, 28/373

‘Abd Allah – my father – al-Dahhak b. Mukhalad – Thawr – Khalid b. Ma’dan – ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Amr al-Sulami – ‘Irbad b. Sariyah:

The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, led us in salat al-fajr. Then, he faced us and delivered an eloquent sermon to us, which caused the eyes to shed tears and also caused fear in the hearts. We said or they said, “O Messenger of Allah, this is a farewell sermon. So, give us instructions.” He said, “I instruct you to fear Allah, and to listen and obey your ruler even if he is an Ethiopian slave. For, whoever lives among you shall witness after me several disagreements. Therefore, follow my Sunnah and the sunnah of the khulafa, who are rashidun and mahdiyun. Bite onto it with your molar teeth. And beware of innovated matters. For, verily, every innovation is a bid’ah; and verily, every bid’ah is misguidance.”

Sheikh Shoaib al-Arnawut terms the Narration Authentic

Also, This Narration is present in Sunan Abi Daood, 4/200, Narration 4607; and Sheikh Albany termed it Authentic

Tirmidhi also mentioned this Narration in His Sunan, 5/44; and termed it Hasan Saheeh.

OBSERVE:
This riwayah tells us a number of crucial facts:

1. The Prophet, peace be upon him and his family, was aware that disagreements would arise soon after his death, during the lifetimes of his Sahabah.

2. He ordered his Sahabah to follow his Sunnah and the sunnah of the khulafa after him. He used the singular “sunnah,” and not the plural “sunan,” apparently to emphasize that all these Khulafau would have a single, uniform sunnah. It was not possible for one of them to have a sunnah which would be different from the sunnah of another. The sunnah of all the Khulafa, whatsoever their number, would be one and the same in all cases and circumstances.

To further re-emphasize the point, he used the singular pronoun “it” to refer to his Sunnah and the sunnah of these khulafa jointly. This then establishes that the Sunnah of Muhammad and the sunnah of the khulafa are so perfectly identical and uniform that they are in essence one and the same entity.

The Messenger also described the khulafa as rashidun and mahdiyun. What do these terms mean? Shaykh Dr. al-Fawzan explains in his Sharah Aqeeda Wastia, page 165:
The rashid is he who knows the truth and practises it. His opposite is the deviant, and that is he who knows the truth but does not practise it. His statement (mahdiyin) means those whom Allah guided to the truth.

So, these khulafa know and practise the truth, and are guided to it by Allah Himself. When there are disagreements within the Ummah, everyone must follow these khulafa, because they have only one sunnah among themselves; and their sunnah is also uniform with Sunnah of the Prophet. So, that is our submission that the Khalifah MUST be the most in everything, the best, and appointed by Allah and His Messenger.

udatso:

This was disproved by giving you Several examples from the story of musa (alaihi salaam g and khidr Etc.
Instead of admitting to the fact that you were wrong on making such assumptions, you immediately jumped to "....eh even if it is so, why so so and so so."

Udatso, that's a feeble submission as I have tackled above.

udatso:


the other points you raised include umar (r. A) not listening to corrections, ma'aswiyat.. ....giving wrong fatwa. ...
You have to prove that the other hadith where there is omission Is ضعيف or موضوع before these points can even be considered

Mawdoo or Da'if for where? Same sanad for that matter. It doesn't arise. You use the missing phrase to compliment the distorted one. Udatso, again there are lotssss of examples o whereby Imam Bukhari (or whoever) distorted reports and the one in Muslim or others narrate in full.

AlBaqir:


Exactly. Now observe brother. Imam Muslim (d. 261 H) was an understudy student of Imam Bukhari (d. 256 H). Imam Muslim had access to all his teacher's primary books of references that's why both their Sahih contain similar ahadith (both sanad and matn). And Alhamdulillah both are Sihahu in line with Sunni ilm hadith. So, obviously Imam Bukhari or whoever compiled it erased the phrase. There are lots of reports like that when you compare both with same sanad.

How can you be so sure? Or it could be the other way round.

There is no conflict whatsoever in the two report. Its a situation whereby one is detailed than the other. Let me cite example in the Quran. Sura al-Baqarah and many other suwar, Allah says "We command the angels to bow down for Adam, all of them bowed down except Iblis". However, surah kahf:50 gives additional info when Allah says "...and he (Iblis) was a Jinn..." This phrase complement other ayah and clarify them. This is part of Tafsir of Quran using Quran. And like I submit earlier, the text of Bukhari clearly reveal there is a missing link unless we are to sacrifice Ammar for being too forward, and Quran condemns that.

But brother, are ahadith analyzed the same way Quran is? Any evidence to support this in the science of hadith?

Are both not sahih

They are. Which is actually my problem here. How to reconcile two sahih hadith ....top of my to-do list inshaAllah. ....I will let you know what I find out.

AlBaqir:



Who was that? Khidr. If you say yes, then you are to prove to us that Khidr is of Musa's Ummah. Khidr was a "messenger of spiritual world sent to Musa. Peace be upon both.

You have to prove the underlined...... If Al-Khidr isnt part of the ummah of Musa(a.s) what will be his response to the following question in his grave:

"WHO IS YOUR NABI?"

Those are very rare and exceptional case. Moreso it is a bullet to our arsenal that only Allah has the right to select leader not by election or one appointing the other.

It also proves my point that "The most knowledgeable need not be the khalifa"

And in the case of Mawla Ali (alayhi Salam), there are direct text whereby he was appointed by Allah and His Messenger as the Khalifah after his master, Muhammad, salallahu alayhi wa Ahli . Here's one of many:

Imam Ibn Asim (d. 287) documents:

Muḥammad b. al-Muthannā – Yaḥyā b. Ḥammād – Abū ‘Awānah – Yaḥyā b. Salīm Abū Balj – ‘Amr b. Maymūn – Ibn ‘Abbās:
"The Messenger of Allah (s) said to 'Ali: "You are to me of the STATUS of Harun to Musa, with the exception that you are not a prophet. And you are MY KHALIFAH over every believer AFTER ME."

Dr. Al-Jawabirah says: Its chain is Hasan

Ref: {'Kitab al-Sunnah (Dar al-Sami'i li al-Nahr wa al-Tawhi) [annotator: Dr. Al-Jawabirah], vol. 1, p. 799 - 800, #1222}

# 'Allamah al-Albani also comments: Its chain is hasan (sound).

Ref: {Kitab Sunnah (al-Maktab al-Islami; 1st Edition, 1400H) [annotator: Nasir deen al-Albani], vol. 2, p. 565, #1188

# Imam al-Hakim (d. 403H) declares: This hadith has a SAHIH chain.
Ref: {Al-Mustadrak ala al-Sahihayn, vol. 3, p. 143, #4652}

* Imam al-Dhahabi (d. 748H) concurs with Imam al-Hakim: SAHIH (authentic).

# Allamah Ahmad Shakir: Its Chain is sahih
Ref: {Musnad Imam Ahmad (Dar alHadith, 1416H) [annotator: Ahmad Shakir] vol. 1, p. 331, #3062}

# Imam al-Busiri (d. 840H): A sahih chain
Ref: {Itihaf al-khiyarah al-Maharah bi Zawaid al-Masanid al-'Ashara, vol. 7, p. 184, #6630.

So after He(Ali) was divinely appointed as the Caliph, when his time to rule came he forgot totally or would you say he was doing takkiyah?!

Ali(ra) said: By Allah, I had no liking for the caliphate nor any interest in government, but you yourselves invited me to it and prepared me for it. When the caliphate came to me, I kept the Book of Allah in my view and all that Allah had put therein for us, and all that according to which He has commanded us to take decisions.[sermon 205]

This sermon of Ali(ra) was made after more than 20 years had passed after the death of Prophet(saw) , Even this sermon of Ali(ra) proves that Ali(ra) never considered that he was already appointed as Caliph, instead he said here that, “WHEN CALIPHATE CAME TO ME” which signifies that he wasn’t the Caliph during that time neither did he wanted to be a Caliph.

It was not said as an address to Ummah or muslims, but it was an address just to Ali(ra). Because prophet(Saw) said “YOU” are to “ME” as haroon to musa, He didn’t say” o believers, Ali is to me as harun to musa”. Or he would have said: “Ali to YOU(muslims) is like Haroon to Bani Israel”, but he didn’t say anything as such.This clearly shows that this wasn’t any kind of declaration before muslims, but it was rather a consolation to Ali(ra) ONLY.

udatso:

How can you be so sure? Or it could be the other way round.

There is no doubt that Imam Muslim was a student of Imam Bukhari. In ilm hadith, whenever you have same chain, obviously your primary source is or Must have been the same.

Besides, there is no Win-Loss here. Both Aimmah to Ahlu Sunnah are Thiqah (trustworthy) and their respective books are equally Sihahu (authentics). If you sacrifice one for the other, then there would be problem.

udatso:


But brother, are ahadith analyzed the same way Quran is? Any evidence to support this in the science of hadith?

Please try to read books on ilm hadith. I believe you will find many on pdf at least. In fact, there is an hadith (funnily its also on Khalifah Umar) about the case of Mughirah ibn Shu'bah who committed adultery. There are lots of chains to the hadith and there matn (content) differs a bit (whereby one gives more info than the other). In such case, you need to bring all of them together provided they are all sahih, to derive the full story.

udatso:


They are. Which is actually my problem here. How to reconcile two sahih hadith ....top of my to-do list inshaAllah. ....I will let you know what I find out.

Making it two promises now
May Allah guide you and us. I shall be waiting.

AlBaqir:

There is no doubt that Imam Muslim was a student of Imam Bukhari. In ilm hadith, whenever you have same chain, obviously your primary source is or Must have been the same.

Besides, there is no Win-Loss here. Both Aimmah to Ahlu Sunnah are Thiqah (trustworthy) and their respective books are equally Sihahu (authentics). If you sacrifice one for the other, then there would be problem.



Please try to read books on ilm hadith. I believe you will find many on pdf at least. In fact, there is an hadith (funnily its also on Khalifah Umar) about the case of Mughirah ibn Shu'bah who committed adultery. There are lots of chains to the hadith and there matn (content) differs a bit (whereby one gives more info than the other). In such case, you need to bring all of them together provided they are all sahih, to derive the full story.



Making it two promises now
May Allah guide you and us. I shall be waiting.

Ameen. This is deeper than I thought. I have gotten some books already. ...as soon as I am done, would let you know... .......bear with me if it takes much time cos am currently engaged with some very very important stuff

lexiconkabir:


You have to prove the underlined...... If Al-Khidr isnt part of the ummah of Musa(a.s) what will be his response to the following question in his grave:

"WHO IS YOUR NABI?"

Surah al-Kahf: 60 - 65 gave an excellent description of the story of both servants of Allah. Nabi Musa (as) never knew Khidr. It was on their journey of years in the wilderness that he found Khidr. And after Musa witnessed all the spiritual wonders, Khidr told him, "This is the parting between me and you (verse 78)". Musa (or anybody of his Ummah, the Bani Israil) never see him again.

Who is Khidr Nabi? Which Ummah does he belongs to? When was he born and die? We have several traditions which says Khidr is a messenger of spiritual realm and part of his job is to help people spiritually. Many Sunni Ulama also believe this. Don't know Wahabi sha.

lexiconkabir:


It also proves my point that "The most knowledgeable need not be the khalifa"

It does not. In the case of the Ummah of Muhammad, salallahu alayhi wa ahli, Prophet clearly gave instruction to follow "Khulafau Rashidun (rightly guided caliphs)" since there will be disagreement after him. I have done analysis on this above. Kindly read. The hadith simply testify that Rightly Guided Khalifah must be the most Knowledgeable and most in everything.

lexiconkabir:


So after He(Ali) was divinely appointed as the Caliph, when his time to rule came he forgot totally or would you say he was doing takkiyah?!

According to your sahih documents, Imam Ali did not recognized the Khilafah of Abubakar for six months, and he only gave him bay'a when he noticed that people were showing animosity towards him. This is reported by Bukhari. And same Bukhari records that Fatima az-Zahra (alayha Salam) never even talk to Abubakar till she died six months after the demise of her father. She never gave Abu allegiance. Then Imam Bukhari records the sermon of Umar during his Khilafah when Umar himself testified that 'Imam Ali and his supporters opposed them when they appointed Abubakar. Imam Ali, indeed, was a brave soul. He never go to war with them lest the fragile state of Islam be jeopardize. He need to remain calm.

lexiconkabir:


Ali(ra) said: By Allah, I had no liking for the caliphate nor any interest in government, but you yourselves invited me to it and prepared me for it. When the caliphate came to me, I kept the Book of Allah in my view and all that Allah had put therein for us, and all that according to which He has commanded us to take decisions.[sermon 205]

This sermon of Ali(ra) was made after more than 20 years had passed after the death of Prophet(saw) , Even this sermon of Ali(ra) proves that Ali(ra) never considered that he was already appointed as Caliph, instead he said here that, “WHEN CALIPHATE CAME TO ME” which signifies that he wasn’t the Caliph during that time neither did he wanted to be a Caliph.

I urge you to go back and read the whole sermon of Imam Ali in Nahj al-Balagha. I am convinced you just copy-paste somewhere. And I bet, you don't wanna read his Khutbah shaqshiqiyyah. Its a bomb. And besides, does Khilafah not come back to him after several denial? Imam did not need the seat of Khilafah. It is the people that needs the Imam to guide them after 30 years of regime ruling by their own desires and interest. {[Quran says, "We have made them Imams to guide by Our command]}.

Imam refused to grant their wish because majority of them were cowards who knew his right before then. Yet, barely 3 months he assumed power, they have orchestrated civil war one after the other till they finally murdered him.

lexiconkabir:


It was not said as an address to Ummah or muslims, but it was an address just to Ali(ra). Because prophet(Saw) said “YOU” are to “ME” as haroon to musa, He didn’t say” o believers, Ali is to me as harun to musa”. Or he would have said: “Ali to YOU(muslims) is like Haroon to Bani Israel”, but he didn’t say anything as such.This clearly shows that this wasn’t any kind of declaration before muslims, but it was rather a consolation to Ali(ra) ONLY.

Don't run away from the conclusion of the hadith which says, "And you are my Khalifah over every believer after me". That is where the point is not necessarily on his likeness to Harun. However here's another one:

Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani documents:

Isḥāq said: Abū ‘Āmir al-‘Aqadī – Kathīr b. Zayd – Muḥammad b. ‘Umar b. ‘Alī – his father - ‘Alī:
"Verily, the Prophet, peace be upon him, came to a tree at (Ghadīr) Khumm. Then he came out, holding the hand of ‘Alī, and saying: “Do you not testify that Allāh is your Lord?” They said, “Yes, we do.” He said, “Do you not testify that Allāh and His Messenger are more entitled to you than yourselves and that Allāh and His Messenger are your Awliyā?” They said, “Yes, we do”. He said, “So, whosoever Allāh and His Messenger are his Mawlā, verily this one (i.e. ‘Alī) is his mawlā. I have left behind over you that which if you hold fast to it you will never go astray: the Book of Allāh – one end of which is in His Hand and the other in your hands – and my Ahl al-Bayt.”

Then, al-Ḥāfiẓ comments: This chain is ṣaḥīḥ.

Ref: {al-Maṭālib al-Āliyah bi Zawāid al-Masānīd al-Thamāniyyah (Beirut: Dār al-Ma’rifah; 1414 H) [annotator: Prof. Shaykh Ḥabīb al-Raḥman al-A’ẓamī], vol., 4, p. 65, # 3972}


Here's the commentary of Imam al-Ghazali

# Imam Muhammad al-Ghazali (d. 450 H) writes:

The people and scholars agree upon the context of the narration of the sermon on the day of Ghadir Khum in which the Prophet (saw) said, "Whoever I am the Mawla then Ali (a) is the Mawla." Then Umar Ibn Khattab said: 'Congratulations! Oh Abal Hasan, you have become my Mawla and the Mawla of every believer.'

This shows his (Umar) submission and acceptance and confirmation (of Ali's wilayah). However after that, he (i.e Umar) was defeated by his desire and love of power in flag of leadership, and he was dominated by desire, and the desire to hold the flag of Caliphate, and the joy to open and conquer states, and by that they (i.e Umar and his cohorts) reverted to the early phase, they dispensed with the agreement (of Ghadir Khum) and sold it at a low price. And also the Prophet (saw) in his last illness before his death said: "Bring me a tablet and ink-pot, so that I may write for you a document by following which you will never go astray" whereupon Umar said: "Don't bring it, the man is talking nonsense.'"

Ref: Sirr al-Alamayn wa kash'f ma fid Darayn, pg.23.

Imam Sibt b. Jawzi also quoted this in his: Tadhkirat Ul-Khawa'is, pg.62.