Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

by the way im an atheist wondering why a religion from the true God would incite its people to offensive violence
cc
Johnydon22

This was in response to the Ansar Muslims (New converts at Madina) who refuse to join Muslims at the battle of Badr to protect them from Meccan invasion. Then, it was a means of service then to defend ones families, town and folks against an invading army.

About being what is best is that anyone who died as a martyr defending (mind you not attacking like Boko Haram, Taliban and ISIS) his people is granted forgiveness and raised high with Allah Subhana Wa Taala on the day of reckoning

afrovist:
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

by the way im an atheist wondering why a religion from the true God would incite its people to offensive violence
cc
Johnydon22

if u start something,finish it next time dont stop half way to score cheap point.
Q2 V217
They asked thee concerning fighting in the prohibited month. Say: Fighting therein is a grave offence but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah,to deny him, to prevent access to the sacred Mosque and drive out its members. " Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can
And if any of you turn back from your faith and die in unbelied,their works will bear no fruit in this life and the hereafter, they will be companions of the fire and abide therein.

As you can see,the verse was direxted towards the unbelievers that where trying to attack the muslims,it wasnt about promoting violence but attacking when been attacked..

thanks for the reply i find it satisfactory, as i explained in the other post i copied it direct from a website that was insinuating that the verse was a justification of offensive violence from the quran, since i dont have much knowledge of the quran, i asked the muslims to convince me the post is wrong which you've done so thanks, hope to interact more in the future. also this is my first post more coming
cc Justdulla

whyman:
This was in response to the Ansar Muslims (New converts at Madina) who refuse to join Muslims at the battle of Badr to protect them from Meccan invasion. Then, it was a means of service then to defend ones families, town and folks against an invading army.

About being what is best is that anyone who died as a martyr defending (mind you not attacking like Boko Haram, Taliban and ISIS) his people is granted forgiveness and raised high with Allah Subhana Wa Taala on the day of reckoning

thanks whyman for explaining further to me, also i heard muslims have different sects, is it a particular sect that is inspiring the taliban, boko haram etc

whyman:
This was in response to the Ansar Muslims (New converts at Madina) who refuse to join Muslims at the battle of Badr to protect them from Meccan invasion. Then, it was a means of service then to defend ones families, town and folks against an invading army.

About being what is best is that anyone who died as a martyr defending (mind you not attacking like Boko Haram, Taliban and ISIS) his people is granted forgiveness and raised high with Allah Subhana Wa Taala on the day of reckoning

Al taquiya nonsense, there was nothing defensive about the battle of badr, it was a purely offensive one on the part of the muslims with the aim of controlling territory.

annunaki2:


Al taquiya nonsense, there was nothing defensive about the battle of badr, it was a purely offensive one on the part of the muslims with the aim of controlling territory.

What do you know about battle of badr? And proofs for it.

annunaki2:


Al taquiya nonsense, there was nothing defensive about the battle of badr, it was a purely offensive one on the part of the muslims with the aim of controlling territory.

As if i knew you'd still come and start spewing trash from your mouth here. He doesn't even know the history of Badr and he is saying rubbish. Mr go and do research before coming to talk please.

lexiconkabir:


What do you know about battle of badr? And proofs for it.

Oladim001:
As if i knew you'd still come and start spewing trash from your mouth here. He doesn't even know the history of Badr and he is saying rubbish. Mr go and do research before coming to talk please.

In September 623, Muhammad himself led a force of 200 in an unsuccessful raid against a large caravan. Shortly thereafter, the Meccans launched their own raid against Medina led by Kurz bin Jabir.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr

Apparently the root cause of the battle of badr was your so called prophet's numerous caravan raids(armed robbery) against the meccans. The meccans went to the battle of badr to defend themselves from continually being raided by a gang of notorious criminals(muslims) led by mohamed.

annunaki2:



In September 623, Muhammad himself led a force of 200 in an unsuccessful raid against a large caravan. Shortly thereafter, the Meccans launched their own raid against Medina led by Kurz bin Jabir.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badr

Apparently the root cause of the battle of badr was your so called prophet's numerous caravan raids(armed robbery) against the meccans. The meccans went to the battle of badr to defend themselves from continually being raided by a gang of notorious criminals(muslims) led by mohamed.

Come on don't be such a dummy. You intentionally skipped the part where it was what the muslims left in Makkah that was being sold. Also remember AbuSufyan already sent a msg that the caravan was safe, wasn't it Abu Jahl that insisted on fighting. And you also forget that war is always the last resort for muslims. I'm really disappointed, well i wasnt expecting any better from you anyway.

annunaki2:



In September 623, Muhammad himself led a force of 200 in an unsuccessful raid against a large caravan Shortly thereafter, the Meccans launched their own raid against Medina led by Kurz bin Jabir.

Here is why Muhammad raided against the caravans;

"Relations between Mecca and Medina rapidly worsened (see surat al-Baqara.) [size=21pt]Meccans confiscated all the property that the Muslims had left in Mecca. In Medina, Muhammad signed treaties of alliance and mutual help with neighboring tribes. Muhammad turned to raiding caravans bound for Mecca.[/size] Caravan raiding was an old Arabian tradition"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet_Muhammad

Apparently the root cause of the battle of badr was your so called prophet's numerous caravan raids(armed robbery) against the meccans. The meccans went to the battle of badr to defend themselves from continually being raided by a gang of notorious criminals(muslims) led by mohamed.

No, the root of the battle was because the muslims were oppressed, like that wiki page established, and muslims went to the war to defend themselves, this is from that wiki page you brought;

"The Quranic Verse 22:39[7] uttered by Muhammad sometime shortly after the migration permitted Muslims, [size=21pt]for the first time, to take up arms in defence[/size]."

Did you seriously say the meccans were defending themselves? With 950 infantry and cavalry: 100 horses and 170 camels against the muslims that had just 313 infantry and cavalry: 2 horses and 70 camels, seriously??

Whats the definition of oppressors? Arent they generally powerful than the person they are oppressing? From the army strength of the war, its clear who the oppressors were.

Being an ex-muslim atheist, i can confidently tell you that islam has never and will never be a religion of peace, the foundation of islam is violent that is why the religion is having problems with mordern civilization today.

nnofaith:
Being an ex-muslim atheist, i can confidently tell you that islam has never and will never be a religion of peace, the foundation of islam is violent that is why the religion is having problems with mordern civilization today.

i'm an ex christian atheist what is it about the quran or islam tham makes it prone to violence? i really wanna know

also to the islamic people are the boo haram, isis people a particular sect eg sunni......

afrovist:

i'm an ex christian atheist what is it about the quran or islam tham makes it prone to violence? i really wanna know

also to the islamic people are the boo haram, isis people a particular sect eg sunni......

islam was achieved and birthed by fighting wars, the prophet and founder of islam and its holy book even describes how war should be fought. what is war? war is violence. that is why i said the foundation of islam is violent. Today, muslims still refer to this texts and believe violence is the only way to achieve their goals.

nnofaith:
islam was achieved and birthed by fighting wars, the prophet and founder of islam and its holy book even describes how war should be fought. what is war? war is violence. that is why i said the foundation of islam is violent. Today, muslims still refer to this texts and believe violence is the only way to achieve their goals.

Justdulla what do you have to say about this

nnofaith:
Being an ex-muslim atheist, i can confidently tell you that islam has never and will never be a religion of peace, the foundation of islam is violent that is why the religion is having problems with mordern civilization today.

Can you share with us your deconversion experience from islam to atheism?

annunaki2:


Can you share with us your deconversion experience from islam to atheism?

Nothing spectacular, the information highway helped a lot. i am a thinker with a voracious appetite for info/knowledge.

nnofaith:
Nothing spectacular, the information highway helped a lot. i am a thinker with a voracious appetite for info/knowledge.

Ok thanks. So why atheism and not agnostic or even deism.

annunaki2:


Ok thanks. So why atheism and not agnostic or even deism.

Why not ask him why it isn't Christianity since he believed Christianity to be less violent that Islam?

Why agnostic or deism, are you one of the two

annunaki2:


Ok thanks. So why atheism and not agnostic or even deism.

Hmmmn! whats the diffrence reallly? they all agree that deities dont exist abi? being atheist means i get to throw away any kind of mombo jombo BS. Personally i think deists are just trying to create a "special god/creator" for themselves, what is the point in doing that? as far as i am concerned an inpersonal god is inconsequential.

afrovist:

Justdulla what do you have to say about this

Lemme tell you why there were various wars during the prophets time. The main religion were idol worship in Arabia and paganism. This unbelievers didnt believe in Islam and were always looking for ways to suppress and ruin the religion,they loved receiving usury,eating forbidden things and fornicating et al. They waged war against islam because it brought a different message and didnt support their vices. So the prophet fought back...lemme tell you the only reason a fellow muslim has to fight another man today,any person that uses another excuse is a counterfeit muslim. If any man prevent you or prevails upon you from practising your religion i.e Islam, you have the right to fight him..i would have written some texts to support this statememt..but currently engaged..prolly kayer

Justdulla:

Lemme tell you why there were various wars during the prophets time. The main religion were idol worship in Arabia and paganism. This unbelievers didnt believe in Islam and were always looking for ways to suppress and ruin the religion,they loved receiving usury,eating forbidden things and fornicating et al. They waged war against islam because it brought a different message and didnt support their vices. So the prophet fought back...lemme tell you the only reason a fellow muslim has to fight another man today,any person that uses another excuse is a counterfeit muslim. If any man prevent you or prevails upon you from practising your religion i.e Islam, you have the right to fight him..i would have written some texts to support this statememt..but currently engaged..prolly kayer

surely Allah who created the universe and everything therein could have established his religion through peacefull means, instead of making his prophet wage wars on unbelievers. You just confirmed my ealier assertion that islam was founded on violence.

nnofaith:
surely Allah who created the universe and everything therein could have established his religion through peacefull means, instead of making his prophet wage wars on unbelievers. You just confirmed my ealier assertion that islam was founded on violence.

Lol. So if I someone attacks and injure you, you're expecting God to come down and attack them for you ?

Presbulg:


Lol. So if I someone attacks and injure you, you're expecting God to come down and attack them for you ?

But in this case contrary to the lies that modern day muslims peddle, it was muslims that went around attacking people, stealing from their caravans and forcefully converting people to muslims. This facts are all clearly documented in your sahih hadiths so stop trying to twist the history of islam.

annunaki2:


But in this case contrary to the lies that modern day muslims peddle, it was muslims that went around attacking people, stealing from their caravans and forcefully converting people to muslims. This facts are all clearly documented in your sahih hadiths so stop trying to twist the history of islam.

Please why do you keep proving me and likes right. You're such a dumbass and can be bothered to engage myself with you. I also see people don't bother to quote or reply you cuz you're such an ass.

Presbulg:


Please why do you keep proving me and likes right. You're such a dumbass and can be bothered to engage myself with you. I also see people don't bother to quote or reply you cuz you're such an ass.

Didirin