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See What The Muslims Worship - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: See What The Muslims Worship by Billiondoe: 9:59am On Jul 09, 2016
aminusanti:


U pple r as confused as ur religion i swear, am getting fade up of debating with u guys. U are just arrogant to accepts facts, in ur previous post u askd me about the same worship that u are misquoting and i gave u refs from ur own book and now switching to something again u should hav attempt to reply those questions i asked you nah... yet u r still blindly calling bowing to kabba as worship while your book mentioned it several times. I pity u guys honestly and again kindly provide us the verses that Jesus(pbh) stated that u people should worship him?? Waiting ..b4 u divert again.lol

Thanks for the insight, may Allah's rahma be with you.... though am a christian, my parents are Muslims and I learn to respect eryones believes, provided they r no idols involved... you don't owe that fool any explanation cos his ignorance is incurable...salam

1 Like

Re: See What The Muslims Worship by peteregwu(m): 10:09am On Jul 09, 2016
aminusanti:


my friend keep shut pls if u don't have anything relevant to say. Did u read the posted at all, look at what u are posting here pls... you are still failing to get the msg still diverting to a different thing again

We worship GOD Almighty in the direction of His Grand Temple/House.  We never worship the Temple/House itself.  The Bible's Prophets in the Bible also had a "House of GOD Almighty" that they worshiped Him in.  Also, the Jews' wailing wall today is a similar example to the Muslims' Kaaba, where the Jews pray to GOD Almighty facing the wall.  And again, the Bible also says:"I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.  (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 138:2)"

The essence of Islam is that all worship is directed to God alone, and that nobody deserves any share in those things that are part of His exclusive rights. In Islam, every single act of worship must be directed to God alone, and the greatest sin in Islam is to direct even the tiniest part of worship to other than God. It is not allowed for a Muslim to have any kind of intermediary with God in worship, whether a living being, or an inanimate object. Muslims pray to Allah – Almighty God – alone, and they do not take things either as direct objects of worship, or indirect objects of worship through which God’s help is sought.The Ka’bah (also spelt Kaaba) is actually a mosque – a Muslim place of worship, much like Christians have churches and Jew have synagogue
Get that right first

Yes true many bliv in jesus(pbh) as there saviour which he never claims and at the same time many bliv he isn't and u can see the rate of pple accepting islam is just unbelievable despite d criticism and at the same time fastest growing religion

Jesus coming is true but to clear you peoples doubt for worshiping him as God ..
pls
why would u follow a book thats is full of condradiction?
Why would u worship a man that never said he is God??


We are not Jews that face wailing wall or whatever they call it. This is what Jesus says about worshipping the true God. God is a spirit, just because we go to church does not mean we bow down to any other thing to worship idols. Jews are not Christians and Christians are not Jews.

John 4:21 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

So Mr man, it's just like Catholic bowing down to Mary's image and praying to her, still they claim they don't worship images or Mary. Hahaha..thats funny. It is only what you are afraid of you bow to worship, that is exactly what Muslim does, they are afraid of the kaaba and that is their God. So the kaaba is a mosque now. Oops!

1 Like

Re: See What The Muslims Worship by aminusanti(m): 10:10am On Jul 09, 2016
jcross19:
ezekiel 8vs 16 says: and he brought me to inner court of the lord's house, and,behold, at the door of the temple of the lord , between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men,with their backs toward the temple of the lord , and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Complete trash! What does it has to do with facing east to pray?? Then how about people praying from Africa or europe are they also facing east and tell me u face east and call jesus does that mean u re worshiping the sun..pls use brain to think don't let ur pastor do it all for u.


John 14 vs 6 says: jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth , and the life , no man cometh unto the father, but by me.

That statement is true and can only make sense for the believer! Jesus Christ, peace be upon him (pbuh), was the way, the life, and the truth, no man came untoGod Almighty but by Jesus (pbuh),during histime! Every messenger during his time was the way and the truth to Almighty God. At the time of Moses, Moses (pbuh) was the way, the truth and the life. No man came unto God Almighty but through Moses (pbuh). At the time of Jesus (pbuh), he was the way, the truth, and the life. At the time of prophet Muhammad (pbuh), he was the way, the truth, and the life. So every prophet at his time he was the way, the truth;and I agree with that statement! It meant that if you follow me you are following Almighty God. He was the way!”
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by peteregwu(m): 10:35am On Jul 09, 2016
Billiondoe:

U are a fool and not even a christian, may one thousand bats rape your mother, even jesus prayed to God...you ignorant fool, am a christian we only pray through Jesus cos he was the only blameless messanger of God... and u fool forget God and prayer is one...we humans created religion...idiot!!!

Am sorry, my mother is late. Exactly that's the fruits of Islam. Exactly what Mohammed did, rape, kidnap and kill. That was why he Married poor Aisha at 6yrs old and consummated the marriage at 9yrs old. Oh my Jesus! What kind of human being is that that called himself a prophet. What! You can't deceive me with that. How can you wish for a woman to be raped. Wow, what a religion. Go and rape, if you won't end up in prison or be hanged grin

1 Like

Re: See What The Muslims Worship by truthman2012(m): 10:50am On Jul 09, 2016
Billiondoe:

U are a fool and not even a christian, may one thousand bats rape your mother, even jesus prayed to God...you ignorant fool, am a christian we only pray through Jesus cos he was the only blameless messanger of God... and u fool forget God and prayer is one...we humans created religion...idiot!!!

Look at another plain liar. You said you are a Christian and called Jesus "a messenger of God".

No doubt, islam is from the Devil, muslims are liars.
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by peteregwu(m): 11:26am On Jul 09, 2016
Billiondoe:

U are a fool and not even a christian, may one thousand bats rape your mother, even jesus prayed to God...you ignorant fool, am a christian we only pray through Jesus cos he was the only blameless messanger of God... and u fool forget God and prayer is one...we humans created religion...idiot!!!

So you have a mother, and you wish my mother to be raped? You also claim you are a Christian and calling my your fellow Christian brother a fool?

Real this;

Matthew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou FOOL, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Your conversion is not complete, you are not even convicted let alone conversion. Well I pray you have encounter with Jesus.
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by Billiondoe: 11:46am On Jul 09, 2016
truthman2012:


Look at another plain liar. You said you are a Christian and called Jesus "a messenger of God".

No doubt, islam is from the Devil, muslims are liars.
You know d disease worse than HIV? Ignorance...if u haven't read d Quran back to back or the Bible back to back...I have no business arguing with you... Muslims are one of the nicest people you cld ever meet...Christians are judge mental people....you wouldn't see a muslim start a thread like this...they accept you why not accept them too?...besides who are you to judge for God? Nobody!!!!. God said nobody is pure enough or righteous enough to defend him.... just believe and worship how you wish...God is one...
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by Billiondoe: 11:48am On Jul 09, 2016
peteregwu:


So you have a mother, and you wish my mother to be raped? You also claim you are a Christian and calling my your fellow Christian brother a fool?

Real this;

Matthew 5:22 "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou FOOL, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Your conversion is not complete, you are not even convicted let alone conversion. Well I pray you have encounter with Jesus.
Lol mattew is a disciple of jesus...he isn't righouse enough to judge anyone...my dear, swerve!!!
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by Billiondoe: 11:58am On Jul 09, 2016
peteregwu:


We are not Jews that face wailing wall or whatever they call it. This is what Jesus says about worshipping the true God. God is a spirit, just because we go to church does not mean we bow down to any other thing to worship idols. Jews are not Christians and Christians are not Jews.

John 4:21 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

So Mr man, it's just like Catholic bowing down to Mary's image and praying to her, still they claim they don't worship images or Mary. Hahaha..thats funny. It is only what you are afraid of you bow to worship, that is exactly what Muslim does, they are afraid of the kaaba and that is their God. So the kaaba is a mosque now. Oops!

I don't know we're they get there worshipping of jesus from in d bible, but the Bible I read, jesus still worshipped God!!

Mar 14:34 "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death," he said to them. "Stay here and keep watch."
Mar 14:35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him.
Mar 14:36 "Abba, Father," he said, "everything is possible for you.
Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will."

So pls who was Jesus praying to in this passage? And yes he said father cos God is the father of all his people....is God not your father? Let's not dwell in ignorance...see the light

"OH, pls save me that trash. We Christians worship Jesus and he himself was worshipped in the Bible and he never complained, that is one the things that makes Christinity different from islam. But the Muslims bow to kaaba and worship it. Abeg, any other thing?" in ur words


So you belive there is a Father(God) I thought u earlier said u worship jesus? U wallow in folly

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Re: See What The Muslims Worship by truthman2012(m): 12:15pm On Jul 09, 2016
Billiondoe:

You know d disease worse than HIV? Ignorance...if u haven't read d Quran back to back or the Bible back to back...you don't worth me arguing with you... Muslims are one of the nicest people you cld ever meet...Christians are judge mental people....you wouldn't see a muslim start a thread like this...they accept you why not accept them too?...besides who are you to judge for God? Nobody!!!!. God said nobody is pure enough or righteous enough to defend him.... just believe and worship how you wish...God is one...

This is also a post by you:

Thanks for the insight, may Allah's rahma be with you.... though am a christian, my parents are Muslims and I learn to respect eryones believes, provided they r no idols involved... you don't owe that fool any explanation cos his ignorance is incurable...salam

You are not a Christian, your parent's islamic blood is surely running in your system. Which kind of a Christian are you who believe in islam? Do you believe in the Bible? These are what it says:

Jesus said: "I am the Way the TRUTH and the LIFE nobody can come unto the Father except by him (John 14:6). Do you believe God as Father? Do you believe Jesus is the only way to God? Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? Those are the fundamentals of Christian faith.

Jesus said: "And this Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations and then the end will come (Mat.24:14). This shows God expects only the Gospel to be preached till the end of the world, meaning islam is not from God.
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by Billiondoe: 12:21pm On Jul 09, 2016
truthman2012:


This is also a post by you:



You are not a Christian, your parent's islamic blood is surely running in your system. Which kind of a Christian are you who believe in islam? Do you believe in the Bible? These are what it says:

Jesus said: "I am the Way the TRUTH and the LIFE nobody can come unto the Father except by him (John 14:6). Do you believe God as Father? Do you believe Jesus is the only way to God? Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? Those are the fundamentals of Christian faith.

Jesus said: "And this Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations and then the end will come (Mat.24:14). This shows God expects only the Gospel to be preached till the end of the world, meaning islam is not from God.

Yes!!! My parents thought me how to respect other people's believes... yours did a bad job... u r d dumbest of them all... God said find me, know me before you worship me!!! Seek wisdom... fool!!!
It's people like you that creat religious war, why can't we all live in peace... why can't we just live in peace? If they dont pray infront of your house or disturb your worship why not just let them be... by judging anyone you would only be cutting big big fire wood for your fire in hell...contunu

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Re: See What The Muslims Worship by jcross19: 1:06pm On Jul 09, 2016
aminusanti:


Complete trash! What does it has to do with facing east to pray?? Then how about people praying from Africa or europe are they also facing east and tell me u face east and call jesus does that mean u re worshiping the sun..pls use brain to think don't let ur pastor do it all for u.




That statement is true and can only make sense for the believer! Jesus Christ, peace be upon him (pbuh), was the way, the life, and the truth, no man came untoGod Almighty but by Jesus (pbuh),during histime! Every messenger during his time was the way and the truth to Almighty God. At the time of Moses, Moses (pbuh) was the way, the truth and the life. No man came unto God Almighty but through Moses (pbuh). At the time of Jesus (pbuh), he was the way, the truth, and the life. At the time of prophet Muhammad (pbuh), he was the way, the truth, and the life. So every prophet at his time he was the way, the truth;and I agree with that statement! It meant that if you follow me you are following Almighty God. He was the way!”
there is no way you can win an argument with a stupid person.

1 Like

Re: See What The Muslims Worship by truthman2012(m): 1:20pm On Jul 09, 2016
Billiondoe:

Yes!!! My parents thought me how to respect other people's believes... yours did a bad job... u r d dumbest of them all... God said find me, know me before you worship me!!! Seek wisdom... fool!!!
It's people like you that creat religious war, why can't we all live in peace... why can't we just live in peace? If they dont pray infront of your house or disturb your worship why not just let them be... by judging anyone you would only be cutting big big fire wood for your fire in hell...contunu

Answer the questions I asked you lady terrorist.

Christianity cannot accommodate jijadists like you. Don't try your deception on us, you are a terrorist.

Even though Jesus wanted to live in peace, that didn't prevent him from telling the Jews the hard truth. The Bible condemns islam you are supporting.
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by najib632(m): 1:37pm On Jul 09, 2016
samsono30:
The idols that the people of mecca where worshiping before and during mohammad time, were not totally destroyed and some where still kept inside the kaaba that is why all muslims have to face mecca where those idol(idols) are to pray and bow down to and also have to pray in one particular language arabic, what the idol (idols) understand. They also dont allow any kind of person to go into the kaaba. Only selected people are allow and they dont disclose what the see inside to anybody
No idol exists in the Ka'aba. That is the house of God that Ibrahim A.S. and Ismail A.S. built as order by God because it was destroyed during the flood that covered the whole earth. And I will not force you to believe because its your choice to save your damned soul from hell.
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by aminusanti(m): 1:42pm On Jul 09, 2016
peteregwu:


We are not Jews that face wailing wall or whatever they call it. This is what Jesus says about worshipping the true God. God is a spirit, just because we go to church does not mean we bow down to any other thing to worship idols. Jews are not Christians and Christians are not Jews.

good now u start using ur brain like human.
so, is bowing in front of something worshipping?
If i pray and bow in my house what am i worshipping?


John 4:21 "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
So Mr man, it's just like Catholic bowing down to Mary's image and praying to her, still they claim they don't worship images or Mary. Hahaha..thats funny. It is only what you are afraid of you bow to worship, that is exactly what Muslim does, they are afraid of the kaaba and that is their God. So the kaaba is a mosque now. Oops!
John 4:21-4:24 are simply saying being truthful in worshipping God.

And now here what is it saying? Are they worshipping the temple?

"I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.  (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 138:2)"

What is the difference with the Kabba ??

And if i pray in the mosque and i bow who am i worshipping??

Again if i pray home and i bow who am i worshipping?

If still its not easy enough for u to reason read this

"Demolishing the Kaaba completely is much easier upon Allah Almighty than shedding the blood of a single Believing Muslim."


"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you:That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him;that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).'(The Noble Quran, 3:64)"

Actually is the other way round you people are the ones worshipping a Man that didn't ask any one to worship him the way you are doing and this is a verse of warning

"God forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him;but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partnerswith God is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.(The Noble Quran, 4:48)"
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by truthman2012(m): 1:42pm On Jul 09, 2016
najib632:
No idol exists in the Ka'aba. That is the house of God that Ibrahim A.S. and Ismail A.S. built as order by God because it was destroyed during the flood that covered the whole earth. And I will not force you to believe because its your choice to save your damned soul from hell.

Why islam about Abraham, Ishmael, Hagai? What about Abraham's other family members?

Abraham and Ishmael were never in Mecca.
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by aminusanti(m): 2:11pm On Jul 09, 2016
jcross19:
there is no way you can win an argument with a stupid person.
stupid indeed! Thats what u get from people like u who are confused in their beliefs but want to call people for Man worshipping.
simple questions from ur corrupted book u can't answer nd answers were given to you with solid refs yet ur still trying harder to tell yourself not to believe...Hell is Hot!
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by aminusanti(m): 2:17pm On Jul 09, 2016
truthman2012:


Why islam about Abraham, Ishmael, Hagai? What about Abraham's other family members?

Abraham and Ishmael were never in Mecca.

ARE WE TO BELIEVE U OR THE HOLY QUR'AN SIR??


"Behold! We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House [That is the Kaaba that he built], (Saying): 'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer). And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by aminusanti(m): 2:24pm On Jul 09, 2016
truthman2012:


Answer the questions I asked you lady terrorist.

Christianity cannot accommodate jijadists like you. Don't try your deception on us, you are a terrorist.

Even though Jesus wanted to live in peace, that didn't prevent him from telling the Jews the hard truth. The Bible condemns islam you are supporting.

You r no better than a terrorist i swear. see the way u are terrorising someone you just met online for saying her view. Bible condemn islam how? Lying since 1900
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by aminusanti(m): 2:26pm On Jul 09, 2016
Billiondoe:

Yes!!! My parents thought me how to respect other people's believes... yours did a bad job... u r d dumbest of them all... God said find me, know me before you worship me!!! Seek wisdom... fool!!!
It's people like you that creat religious war, why can't we all live in peace... why can't we just live in peace? If they dont pray infront of your house or disturb your worship why not just let them be... by judging anyone you would only be cutting big big fire wood for your fire in hell...contunu
nice1 Lady..
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by aminusanti(m): 2:29pm On Jul 09, 2016
Billiondoe:

I don't know we're they get there worshipping of jesus from in d bible, but the Bible I read, jesus still worshipped God!!

Mar 14:34 "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death," he said to them. "Stay here and keep watch."
Mar 14:35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him.
Mar 14:36 "Abba, Father," he said, "everything is possible for you.
Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will."

So pls who was Jesus praying to in this passage? And yes he said father cos God is the father of all his people....is God not your father? Let's not dwell in ignorance...see the light

"OH, pls save me that trash. We Christians worship Jesus and he himself was worshipped in the Bible and he never complained, that is one the things that makes Christinity different from islam. But the Muslims bow to kaaba and worship it. Abeg, any other thing?" in ur words


So you belive there is a Father(God) I thought u earlier said u worship jesus? U wallow in folly
may God bless you sister
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by truthman2012(m): 2:32pm On Jul 09, 2016
aminusanti:


You r no better than a terrorist i swear. see the way u are terrorising someone you just met online for saying her view. Bible condemn islam how? Lying since 1900

Do you understand English? Who is terrorising who. Read her posts welli welli na?
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by jcross19: 2:41pm On Jul 09, 2016
aminusanti:

stupid indeed! Thats what u get from people like u who are confused in their beliefs but want to call people for Man worshipping.
simple questions from ur corrupted book u can't answer nd answers were given to you with solid refs yet ur still trying harder to tell yourself not to believe...Hell is Hot!
read your koran well , all muslims must enter hell. Am still wondering how sane man will still be following someone who says they should be praying for him because he don't know where is going after death and is coming from a man who proclaim himself a prophet.

1 Like

Re: See What The Muslims Worship by aminusanti(m): 2:46pm On Jul 09, 2016
truthman2012:


Do you understand English? Who is terrorising who. Read her posts welli welli na?
no i don't. I went tru everything. Honestly, u should be ashame of urself by now, u reach this level that even ur fellow xtians are noticing how dump n cluess u r. GOD will b exposing u guys one by one
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by aminusanti(m): 2:49pm On Jul 09, 2016
jcross19:
read your koran well , all muslims must enter hell. Am still wondering how sane man will still be following someone who says they should be praying for him because he don't know where is going after death and is coming from a man who proclaim himself a prophet.
K
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by truthman2012(m): 3:03pm On Jul 09, 2016
aminusanti:

no i don't. I went tru everything. Honestly, u should be ashame of urself by now, u reach this level that even ur fellow xtians are noticing how dump n cluess u r. GOD will b exposing u guys one by one

That lady is a muslim, her tactics are just a few of the al-taqquiyal muslims normally use to defend islam. She is a blatant liar. Pity her!!!
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by aminusanti(m): 3:29pm On Jul 09, 2016
truthman2012:


That lady is a muslim, her tactics are just a few of the al-taqquiyal muslims normally use to defend islam. She is a blatant liar. Pity her!!!
Compulsive Liar! All you need is time.
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by truthman2012(m): 6:02pm On Jul 09, 2016
aminusanti:
Compulsive Liar! All you need is time.

Which is my lie?

Did you see a Christian not believing the Bible like her?
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by truthman2012(m): 6:02pm On Jul 09, 2016
aminusanti:
Compulsive Liar! All you need is time.

Which is my lie?

Did you see a Christian not believing the Bible like her? What makes her a Christian?
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by samsono30: 8:28pm On Jul 09, 2016
najib632:
No idol exists in the Ka'aba. That is the house of God that Ibrahim A.S. and Ismail A.S. built as order by God because it was destroyed during the flood that covered the whole earth. And I will not force you to believe because its your choice to save your damned soul from hell.

It you that have to save your damned soul from hell.Even your mohamed said he doesnt knw where he is going to,i just hope he is not in hell. Messenger of God who doesnt know where he is going to
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by najib632(m): 8:40pm On Jul 09, 2016
samsono30:


It you that have to save your damned soul from hell.Even your mohamed said he doesnt knw where he is going to,i just hope he is not in hell. Messenger of God who doesnt know where he is going to
He is trying to show the Might of God. If God willed all of useless human beings would burn in hell. Because we dont add anything to God's universe except blood shed, sin and Impurity.
Re: See What The Muslims Worship by najib632(m): 8:56pm On Jul 09, 2016
truthman2012:


Why islam about Abraham, Ishmael, Hagai? What about Abraham's other family members?

Abraham and Ishmael were never in Mecca.
Who is Hagai? because that person doesn't exist in Islam. If Abraham and Ismail were not in mecca and as ignorant Christians say that Ismail is not the father of Arabians, then who is?

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