I want to ask, Is it possible that God is existing and we are here arguing over it,

Even religious people can not be able to prove his existince,

I mean have we ever argued over the existence of the Sun or Moon.

banom:

I want to ask, Is it possible that God is existing and we are here arguing over it,

Even religious people can not be able to prove his existince,

I mean have we ever argued over the existence of the Sun or Moon.

that's because you can prove that they either exist or not. Instead of bothering about us giving you proof about God's existence, why dont you prove that He doesnt exist?

banom:

I want to ask, Is it possible that God is existing and we are here arguing over it,

Even religious people can not be able to prove his existince,

I mean have we ever argued over the existence of the Sun or Moon.

Bro so u still dey mumu urself for here

davidylan:

that's because you can prove that they either exist or not. Instead of bothering about us giving you proof about God's existence, why dont you prove that He doesnt exist?

This is the worst thing i have ever heard in nairaland, am i the person to prove that you are a liar or are you the person to prove that you are saying the truth,

well, i will prove to you he doesn't exist if only you can define EXISTENCE for me.

banom:

This is the worst thing i have ever heard in nairaland, am i the person to prove that you are a liar or are you the person to prove that you are saying the truth,

well, i prove to you he doesn't exist if only you can define EXISTENCE for me.

If u think that what has been said is a LIE . . . .then the onus is on u to prove it.
If God does not exist. . . .why do u have a problem proving it?

noetic2:

If u think that what has been said is a LIE . . . .then the onus is on u to prove it.
If God does not exist. . . .why do u have a problem proving it?

If god exist then where is he?. . . . .Neotic if you know where he is then pls show me. . . .

mazaje:

If god exist then where is he?. . . . .Neotic if you know where he is then pls show me. . . .

I thought u were once a christian. . . . . He still lives where u were told He lives in ur sunday school. . . .try and remember.

where is ur evidence that suggests He does not EXIST?

noetic2:

I thought u were once a christian. . . . . He still lives where u were told He lives in your sunday school. . . .try and remember.

I was lied to as a kid. . . . now I KNOW its a LIE. . . . .

where is your evidence that suggests He does not EXIST?

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. . . .

mazaje:


Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. . . .

Are you trying to enroll the MAGA in school of thought ?

mazaje:

I was lied to as a kid. . . . now I KNOW its a LIE. . . . .

where is ur proof that it was a lie?

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. . . .

what do u define as "evidence"? cos the last time I checked there are billions of evidences that support the existence of God.

Where is Davidylan, are you running ?
Define existence for me , let me prove to you that God doesn't exist.

noetic2:

where is your proof that it was a lie?

Most of the stories were lies, fantasies and myths that never happened. . . I was told that a man had the ability to stop the earth from rotating just because he and his friends wanted to commit murder. . . A man survived inside a fish for 3 days. . men turned sticks into snakes etc. . . if the ancient egyptians can turn their sticks into snakes during the time of moses why can't they do it now?(The entire exodus tale is a lie because there is no evidence of the jews ever living in egypt out side the lying torah)

what do u define as "evidence"? cos the last time I checked there are[b] billions of evidences[/b] that support the existence of God.

What are the billions of evidence?

mazaje:

Most of the stories were lies, fantasies and myths that never happened. . . I was told that a man had the ability to stop the earth from rotating just because he and his friends wanted to commit murder. . . A man survived inside a fish for 3 days. . men turned sticks into snakes etc. . . if the ancient egyptians can turn their sticks into snakes during the time of moses why can't they do it now?(The entire exodus tale is a lie because there is no evidence of the jews ever living in egypt out side the lying torah)


What are the billions of evidence?

and you forgot to add his fictitious dream account of noetic2 chapter 1 v 8.

banom:

and you forgot to add his fictitious dream account of noetic2 chapter 1 v 8.

. I asked neotic to tell me what jesus looked like when he appeared to him in his dreams and he started to insult me. . .

mazaje:

. I asked neotic to tell me what jesus looked like when he appeared to him in his dreams and he started to insult me. . .

Oh it is today you know noetice2 very well, like i said, i am scared about his own version of christianity.

I was a far better christian than the dude when i was a christian,

me and the dude still have a big beef to settle.

mazaje:

Most of the stories were lies, fantasies and myths that never happened. . . I was told that a man had the ability to stop the earth from rotating just because he and his friends wanted to commit murder. . . A man survived inside a fish for 3 days. . men turned sticks into snakes etc. . . if the ancient egyptians can turn their sticks into snakes during the time of moses why can't they do it now?(The entire exodus tale is a lie because there is no evidence of the jews ever living in egypt out side the lying torah)

u ahve simply chose to disbelieve the evidences. . . .that does not discredit the evidences. . or does it?
that aside. . . . . are the stories the basis of disbelieving in God? where are ur numerous evidences to prove that God does not exist?

What are the billions of evidence?

let us start from the things u FALSELY call nature. . . . they are over one billion.

mazaje:

. I asked neotic to tell me what jesus looked like when he appeared to him in his dreams and he started to insult me. . .

this is not true. . . . .

If god could prove his existance then nigeria would be like Heaven on earth, but since god can't prove his existance {coz he don't exist anyway} then nigeria will continue to be like Hell forever and ever and ever Amen.

noetic2:

u ahve simply chose to disbelieve the evidences. . .  .that does not discredit the evidences. . or does it?
that aside. . . . . are the stories the basis of disbelieving in God? where are your numerous evidences to prove that God does not exist?

You have started again eh noetic . Again what are the evidence? What evidence do you have for the existence of your god apart from the bible and the sweet lies you keep telling yourself all the time, the bible is a book that men wrote and claimed that their god told them to write it. . .I sat in church for many years every Sunday and also weekdays as a kid and as a teenageer and thought that somehow I'd heard the whole bible story in both the OT and NT. But when I eventually decided to read the bible cover to cover I soon realized that it was only carefully selected parts they had been reading to us in church, and that the complete book actually does not make much sense in the modern world because even christians pick and choose which parts of the new testament to accept and discard. . . .

The scale of the stupidity, horror, brutality and contradictions only started to crystallize for me when I read the thing as a whole. Reading it in snippets is very fine actually because you can do away with all the babaric, horrible and contradictory parts. . . . it's mostly bullshit made up by people living under a cloak of ignorance and bigotry

let us start from the things u FALSELY call nature. . . . they are over one billion.

No matter how much you lie to yourself and keep banging your head on the wall claiming and ascribing everything to your god does not make it true. . . . .Let me also make a claim, zeus created the universe prove to me that he did not. . . .

Guys dont mind noetic, he is full of it lacking the knowledge for a True belief, and he will not be able to defend God's existence since his concept consists of 3 Gods!

Zeus is not a Known entity to everyone on earth. There is no one single entity that is known to everyone, believer or not, and every culture except God Almighty the Creator Himself, alone. You dont have to see everything before you believe that it exist or existed! I never meet my great grand parents, but I knew that of their existence. I have not seen mars and other physical things with my eyes, because it is beyond what my eyes can see. My vision does not go that far. Further no one can see the entire earth in one vision, and all of these things are accepted by us the creationists as part of what God created.

Is it therefore altogether the more possible that since one can not see everything created, humans are still in the discovery mode, and it will be ever inching forward without ever reaching the end, not seeing the Creator does not make Him not existing but Most Unique, separate and apart from every one of His creations.

Every culture has a name in their own language for Him. He is agreed to be unique, and unparallel, and even those of you atheist and or agnostics or other forms of disbelief, know that He exists, the reason you are either arguing about His whereabout, and or making what you love most in the case of the Christians as they take Jesus to be part of Him. They do not take Paul to be part of Him, because he Paul is not as loved as Jesus is.

Dear mazaje, it is simple: if He does not exist, then prove and tell where He is not.

mazaje:


You have started again eh noetic . Again what are the evidence? What evidence do you have for the existence of your god apart from the bible and the sweet lies you keep telling yourself all the time, the bible is a book that men wrote and claimed that their god told them to write it. . .I sat in church for many years every Sunday and also weekdays as a kid and as a teenageer and thought that somehow I'd heard the whole bible story in both the OT and NT. But when I eventually decided to read the bible cover to cover I soon realized that it was only carefully selected parts they had been reading to us in church, and that the complete book actually does not make much sense in the modern world because even christians pick and choose which parts of the new testament to accept and discard. . . .

The scale of the stupidity, horror, brutality and contradictions only started to crystallize for me when I read the thing as a whole. Reading it in snippets is very fine actually because you can do away with all the babaric, horrible and contradictory parts. . . . it's mostly bullshit made up by people living under a cloak of ignorance and bigotry

u are missing the bigger picture.

how does any of the biblical stories disprove the existence of God? I just dont get it. . . . . , pick a story in the bible and tell us why u think this story supports ur claim that God does not exist.

No matter how much you lie to yourself and keep banging your head on the wall claiming and ascribing everything to your god does not make it true. . . . .Let me also make a claim, zeus created the universe prove to me that he did not. . . .

you have not stated why what u call nature could not have been created by God?

noetic2:

u are missing the bigger picture.

how does any of the biblical stories disprove the existence of God? I just dont get it. . . . . , pick a story in the bible and tell us why u think this story supports your claim that God does not exist.

Ok let me give you some examples. . .The bible talks about god appearing to the Israelite or addressing them through public speeches at one point or the other but once he lives them alone they go and start worshiping idols . . . I find these tale so ridiculous and absurd. . .How can the Israelite disobey the kind  warrior and no nonsense kind of god talked about in the OT after he has appeared to them or addressed them through public speech. . . leave him and begin to worship idols . What kind of lalala tale is this? The same god that is said to appear to them and lead them in battles, strike them down when they disobey him, send mamma from heaven unto them etc. . . .This is just tales by moon light. . .

There are stories in the bible that have the bible god who is said to be an all knowing deity showing emotional outburst. . . .I have told you before that humans express emotions due to knew knowledge acquired in one way or the other. . .In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may emotively react. . . . . humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent god, however can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect god lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect god who experiences emotion is impossible.

you have not stated why what u call nature could not have been created by God?

You first of all have to prove to me that your god created the universe. . . moslems claim their allah did it. . you are yet to prove them wrong. . .provide your evidence to show that your god created the universe first of all then we will continue from there. . . unsubstantiated claims based on faith alone are not allowed. . .

mazaje:

Ok let me give you some examples. . .The bible talks about god appearing to the Israelite or addressing them through public speeches at one point or the other but once he lives them alone they go and start worshiping idols . . . I find these tale so ridiculous and absurd. . .How can the Israelite disobey the kind  warrior and no nonsense kind of god talked about in the OT after he has appeared to them or addressed them through public speech. . . leave him and begin to worship idols . What kind of lalala tale is this? The same god that is said to appear to them and lead them in battles, strike them down when they disobey him, send mamma from heaven unto them etc. . . .This is just tales by moon light. . .

why dont u give a direct instance.
From what I gather. . . it is very human to backslide even after a season of receiving miracles. . . . .disbelieve/faithlessness is a human tendency as seen even in today's group of believers. On a lighter note. . . the stories u read that make u disbelieve in the existence of God, has been read by others and they are strengthened by it in their belief in God. . .what does that tell u?

[b]There are stories in the bible that have the bible god who is said to be an all knowing deity showing emotional outburs[/b]t. . . .I have told you before that humans express emotions due to knew knowledge acquired in one way or the other. . .In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may emotively react. . . . . humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent god, however can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect god lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect god who experiences emotion is impossible.

Any examples?

You first of all have to prove to me that your god created the universe. . . moslems claim their allah did it. . you are yet to prove them wrong. . .provide your evidence to show that your god created the universe first of all then we will continue from there. . . unsubstantiated claims based on faith alone are not allowed. . .

u made the insidious claim that God does not exist. . .so the onus and burden of proof is on u to prove ur statement. . . . . .so what is the evidence to back up ur assertion?

noetic2:

why dont u give a direct instance.
From what I gather. . . it is very human to backslide even after a season of receiving miracles. . . . .disbelieve/faithlessness is a human tendency as seen even in today's group of believers. On a lighter note. . . the stories u read that make u disbelieve in the existence of God, has been read by others and they are strengthened by it in their belief in God. . .what does that tell u?

I find this story completely absurd. . . People hear the voice of the OT god or see him sometimes according to the bible yet quickly turn to worship Idols that have no voice at all. . . .the every day believers do not claim to see god or hear him address them through public speech they just have faith that he is there even though they have never seen him or heard his voice echo like a loud speaker. . . .I don't think that there is any blind person or amputee out there who after regaining his sight or having his amputated limbs grow back through prayers in the name of jesus will tun around and begin to worship wooden Idols. . .as for others reading and believing all I have o say is that religions are all like that you have to condition your self and assume that the stories being told are true even if they are not true at all. . . .

Any examples?

In the book of Amos the OT god says that he is responsible for all evils that happen meaning that there is no evil that takes place with out his knowledge and approval. . . yet in other parts of the bible like in Ezekiel he punishes the Israelite for disobeying him showing anger and promising to kill their unborn children that are in their mothers wombs

Amo 3:6  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

He even gets angry with solomon in the book of kings. . . gets angry with the Jews in most parts of the OT for disobeying him or breaking his commandments. . . . . gets jealous if they worship other gods etc. . . its all over the bible. . . .

u made the insidious claim that God does not exist. . .so the onus and burden of proof is on u to prove your statement. . . . . .so what is the evidence to back up your assertion?

Its not a claim but a fact. . .You claim god exist and i say he does not, you then said that i should prove that he does not exist and I ask you to show me where he is simple. . . . .unless if you mean he exist on the pages of the bible, koran, hindu text and other religious scripture then fine. . . .No god exist outside the various religious scriptures and the minds and imaginations of people that already believe. . . .

Will you guys quit already?How many bleeding times are you going to have this argument?If you know God exists then,for you, he does;if you think he doesn't,in the absence of proof,you're entirely justified in not believing.Why should anyone be expected to take someone else's word for the existence of God?  And frankly the burden of proof rests on we who say he exists.Even religious experiences can be a minefield if one isn't careful. The mind is little undestood and some 'visions'and 'voices'ascribed to the divine is simply the mind doing its own thing. A synapsis misfires and we think we've been visited by God.

Mazaje, most of us were exposed to the crude, clumsy,but sincerely felt Christianity Nigerians hold dear.We were all indoctrinated as kids.Being disgusted with the illogic you find in the Bible is not proof that God doesn't exist. Jews wrote the O.T. They're free to put whatever they like in it.I remember reading, was it Deutoronomy, and suddenly being irritated by all the rules and a God who had 'time' to go into the smallest and most insignificant details about every bleeding aspect of their lives. It seemed petty and freakishly controlling. I did a little research on that book (I'll confirm if it's Deuteronomy) and what do you know? A very pious king, I think it was Josiah, who loved God wanted various social and religious reforms carried out in Israel during his reign. He'd been agitating for this and the people weren't paying attention to him. After a few years of this, a document, a lost scroll, was suddenly unearthed in Israel. It contained religious writing.But it also contained, you guessed it, ALL the social and religious reforms the King had been clamouring for  for years.To the letter!That book is Deutoronomy. The people paid attention this time.There was a religious revival and one very happy King.

The knotty parts in the Bible merely shows us for what we are; human beings with our own agenda. In no way does the Bible
or anything human beings do invalidate God.

mazaje:

I find this story completely absurd. . . People hear the voice of the OT god or see him sometimes according to the bible yet quickly turn to worship Idols that have no voice at all. . . .the every day believers do not claim to see god or hear him address them through public speech they just have faith that he is there even though they have never seen him or heard his voice echo like a loud speaker. . . .I don't think that there is any blind person or amputee out there who after regaining his sight or having his amputated limbs grow back through prayers in the name of jesus will tun around and begin to worship wooden Idols. . .as for others reading and believing all I have o say is that religions are all like that you have to condition your self and assume that the stories being told are true even if they are not true at all. . . .

what led the people to idolatory? u need to analyse this to get the larger picture. tow things led to idolatory

1. the need for a supreme being. the children of israel made a calf image to themselves when they did not see moses again. it is a known fact that the generation that left Egypt did not know God. . .they were idolators who moses convinced through the works/miracles of his rod.
so as soon as moses was on mount sinai and was not down for a long time. . . . the need for a supreme being made them create a calf. . . . not all of them however worshipped the calf. remember moses told them to choose between the calf and God. . . . .majority chose God.

2. they worshipped the idols their foreign wives served . , . . . .that was why God asked them not to marry from a foreign nation.
what would u not do for a woman u are in lust with? that was what also happened to solomon.
thats what is also happening to today's chriatians. . . . . .money, women and worldly lusts leading them astray from God regardless of all the miracles they have received in time past.

In the book of Amos the OT god says that he is responsible for all evils that happen meaning that there is no evil that takes place with out his knowledge and approval. . . yet in other parts of the bible like in Ezekiel he punishes the Israelite for disobeying him showing anger and promising to kill their unborn children that are in their mothers wombs

He even gets angry with solomon in the book of kings. . . gets angry with the Jews in most parts of the OT for disobeying him or breaking his commandments. . . . . gets jealous if they worship other gods etc. . . its all over the bible. . . .

Over the past couple of weeks . . . I have been reading the entire bible. And I have come across this emotions u mentioned in the new testament.
my deduction has been that
1. when u obey God' laws and commandments u are safe in his hands in all that u do. . .David is a classic example.

2. For all those who saw the wrath of God in the bible. . .they were all forewarned that they should keep the commandments of God.

3. God did not get angry in a day. . , it took time.

4. satan's abilities are highly over rated and exaggerated.

Its not a claim but a fact. . .You claim god exist and i say he does not, you then said that i should prove that he does not exist and I ask you to show me where he is simple. . . . .unless if you mean he exist on the pages of the bible, koran, hindu text and other religious scripture then fine. . . .No god exist outside the various religious scriptures and the minds and imaginations of people that already believe. . . . 

u claimed that God does not exist. . . . . you are yet to prove it.
I claimed that God exist. . . . I have also given u a BILLION evidences that suggest so (Nature). . . . .you are yet to refute my evidences . . .neither have u proven ur claim.

Dear mazaje, it is simple: if He does not exist, then prove and tell where He is not.

why is it mazaje's job to prove the boogie man exists?

is it not pertinent mazaje proves his claims?

noetic2:

what led the people to idolatory? u need to analyse this to get the larger picture. tow things led to idolatory

1. the need for a supreme being. the children of israel made a calf image to themselves when they did not see moses again. it is a known fact that the generation that left Egypt did not know God. . .they were idolators who moses convinced through the works/miracles of his rod.
so as soon as moses was on mount sinai and was not down for a long time. . . . the need for a supreme being made them create a calf. . . . not all of them however worshipped the calf. remember moses told them to choose between the calf and God. . . . .majority chose God.

2. they worshipped the idols their foreign wives served . , . . . .that was why God asked them not to marry from a foreign nation.
what would u not do for a woman u are in lust with? that was what also happened to solomon.
thats what is also happening to today's chriatians. . . . . .money, women and worldly lusts leading them astray from God regardless of all the miracles they have received in time past.

I find the entire tale absurd because it is not written in the bible that golden calf they worshiped helped them in any way. . . yahweh on the other hand sent manna from heaven for them. . .divided the red sea for them, healed them from their diseases etc. . . .We will always disagree with all these things because I do not believe any of them ever happened. . .there was no exodus from egypt, no parting of the red sea no conquest etc. . all these myths are part of the jewish culture. . . .its funny that you guys completely disregard african myths like the story of sango but quickly hold unto the jewish myths. . . .

As for the warning against marrying women from other tribes or race all all I can say is that it is a well known fact that people will go to any extent to encourage racism and segregation even when it means invoking their god. . . I just hope you read mad max's post. . . . .

Over the past couple of weeks . . . I have been reading the entire bible. And I have come across this emotions u mentioned in the new testament.
my deduction has been that
1. when u obey God' laws and commandments u are safe in his hands in all that u do. . .David is a classic example.

2. For all those who saw the wrath of God in the bible. . .they were all forewarned that they should keep the commandments of God.

3. God did not get angry in a day. . , it took time.

This is not true. . . there are so many places in the bible where the bible god got angry instantaneously. . .Let me repeat humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent god, however can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect god lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect god who experiences emotion is impossible.

4. satan's abilities are highly over rated and exaggerated.

Yet you guys spend whole night casting and binding this imaginary non existent entity . This satan myth is really ridiculous I must say. . . .Satan does not exist outside the various religious text and the imaginations of people that buy into the myth. . .

u claimed that God does not exist. . . . . you are yet to prove it.
I claimed that God exist. . . . I have also given u a BILLION evidences that suggest so (Nature). . . . .you are yet to refute my evidences . . .neither have u proven your claim.

Its not a claim but a Fact. . . .You have never given me any evidence at all. . . I find it funny that you guys point to evidence to suggest that your god exist. . if your god truly exist we will not be talking about evidence. . . we don't talk about evidence suggesting that the sun, planets or the star exist do we? I claim your god exist and i ask you to show me where he is and all you can come up with is evidence which suggest he exist? . Neotic my man you can do better than that. . . .

@ Poster -

Many years ago people thought the earth was flat. They argued about it.

Many years ago people thought the universe revolved around the earth. They argued about it.

In summary: the fact that ignorant people quibble about something does not discredit the truth.

With appropriate individual or societal advances in knowledge, understanding will ultimately come.

By the way, its incredibly stupid to look at the very palm of your own hand, and fail to see intricate and thoughtful intelligent design therein.

Aside from all the logic in the world (and there is alot to show), your failure to recognise the existence of an uncaused cause, shows, not only a lack of intelligence, but more crucially, dead perceptive instincts, and a moribund intuition.