MzPecs:
Oh! Jesus. This is too much to read

ipledge10:
you want to read about Afonja?

The thing tire me sef..

Awayu?

MzPecs:

The thing tire me sef..

Awayu?

ipledge10:
fine baby...bored lately

Oya take up your bible and read..

GorkoSusaay:
It is my belief that Aare Afonja has been unfairly lampooned by later generations as a traitor, a turncloak when he was much more than that.
Alaafin Aole antagonized Afonja and wanted him dead, but the latter was much shrewder than him. Alaafin Aole's exactions are well documented by Samuel Johnson's History of the Yoruba.

Afonja was antagonized by Aole, betrayed the Alaafins, overreached in his quest for power and lost everything. But he was good general and administrator by all accounts, as his nomination as Aare attest.

The funny thing is that Afonja has been used as a scapegoat for the Fulani conquest of Ilorin. He is to blame but many other "Baale" whose descendants know hold the title of "Oba" rebelled against the later Alaafins. Old Oyo was not sacked by Ilorin but by a Yoruba ally of Emir Abdussalami who was intent on overthrowing the Oyo suzerainty.

There's much to say about that very interesting period in Yorubaland.
And Lawani, you are as ever wrong about the Emirs of Ilorin. Denial is a hell of a drug

lawani:


In Yoruba land, a man named Tapa is a Yoruba man of Nupe descent. An Aguda is Catholic descent. Saro is Sierra Leonean descent. Gambari is Hausa descent. How do you mean a Yoruba man named Gambari is not Hausa descent?
[b]

The thing is that 19th century Oyo viewed the Fulbe as superior because they carried themselves like that, cramming the Quran and etc. That was what contributed to what happened in Ilorin where Alimi was respected and his son put as Imam in his father's stead. What you should know is that an Oyo or Ijesa aristocrat appearing in Europe in the 10th century carrying himself properly would be viewed as superior by local Europeans and could have been given a title or even made King of England or Germany. Infact if Oduduwa had headed North to Europe instead of SW to Yoruba land, he could have been crowned King in Europe as well as he was in Ile Ife. Na packaging. So the newly civilized Fulbe had enthusiasm and were seen as superior by the 19th century Yoruba for a short while. So a Fulbe Imam was turbanned in Ilorin by Yorubas later styled Emir but now the Emir is a Yoruba of Gambari (Hausa) descent. That is the issue. Ilorin was never and is not a Fulbe state. Ilorin is no different from Abeokuta a breakaway Oyo territory fighting the Oyo in the South. If Ilorin is a Fulbe state, how come Jebba is not a Fulbe state?

[/b]
So, the Emir of Ilorin is not a Yoruba man of Fulani descent. The man is Hausa descent. No Fulani descent is Oba anywhere in Yoruba.

2prexios:


A Yoruba adage says 'kosi bimu alagbaro sele gun to, eni to gboko fun loga re'. The Yoruba were not awed by Fulani in those days cause they see them as kith and kin of the Hausa (Gambari pa Fulani o lejo nnu), a typical Fulani is imale, as in "a Malian" to the Yoruba forebears.

The Yoruba used to keep both group as slaves until the decline of the slave trade and Oyo empire. And that's what sultan Bello was saying that they Yoruba sells people from the north to the whites as slaves.

A tale to buttress this point is the way this proverb came to being: won o feo nilu, oloofe darin, booba da tan tani o bao gbe?" The proverb belonged to Sheu Alimi when he ordered the death of a Yoruba masquerade.

The masquerade was an itinerant one from igbomina and it used to flatter people from place to place. he flatters Alimi thus: "ebami ki Alimi, eru sewa doba?" meaning "salute to Alimi, how did a slave become king?".

The word filter to the palace and when the masquerade was on homeward journey that pass through Ilorin, he was arrested. At the point of death, he said he like to make a song and he still kept saying the word that he was about to be killed for.

The word of the song is how Yoruba viewed the fulbe in the 19th century, except you lived at a different epoch of it. Aole shot in different directions and says that the slaves will lord it over the Yoruba.

It is the mentality of the time he was referring to, as typified in Muslim mass movement (Jamma) that's going on then at Ilorin under the influence of Alimi, their leader, as orchestrated by Afonja.

So how does Oyo view Fulbe again?

Yoruba forebears had great value for valor and pride in their way of life, they began to feel inferior after the incessant attack on their culture by foreign religion, not before it.

They lose their cultural pride and their hitherto 'superior will' decapitated. The new religion is about proselytizing with incessant arguments that Yoruba were not conversant with in their native intelligence.

A house divided against itself.

lawani:


The town Fulani carried their newly acquired Islamic religion on their head and it gave them airs. It was Rev Johnson's opinion that the 19th century Yoruba viewed them as superior because of that but obviously it applied only to Yoruba Muslims because the Fulbe carried themselves as Islamic purists. It would not apply to the Saros or Afro Brazillians of course who were seen as Yoruba Europeans back then. I am quoting Reverend Johnson on the Oyo view of the Fulani in the 19th century which played out in Ilorin.



Then Imale are totally different from Fulani. Imale are Malians, Aganyin are Ghanaians, Geesi are British and I believe Aguda means German and etc.


With a strong government headed by a strong Alaafin the equilibrum would have remained with the Oyo as the masters of the Muslims to the South but the Muslims too were Masters to the North. I believe if Alaafin Aole were not petty as an individual, the story would have been different.

Then Afonja did not attack Oyo. It was when Abdulsalam became Emir that Oyo ile was burnt down by Ilorin but that was even after Oyo ile had made several unrelenting attempt to dislodge the Muslims from Ilorin. The Ilorin had earlier besieged Oyo but refused to burn it down only for Oyo to regroup and attack them. It was after then that the tables turned and Ilorin burnt down Oyo Ile. Not the Fulbe but Yoruba Muslims. Only a handful of Ilorin families claim Fulbe origin.

2prexios:


I'm new to this inferiority complex you talk about, but you may want to know Johnson reported Sultan Bello's view of the Yoruba as at the time. It depends on which perspective suits what argument but such is not a Yoruba character.

lawani:


I was not there too but it was Rev Johnson's opinion in his book 'History of the Yorubas'. He went to the extent of saying that the Yoruba people preferred to ally with the Fulani but that the reigning Alaafin refused to agree with the majority and rather alligned himself with the King of Borgu to the North East. He said the Yoruba were not happy with the Alaafin for doing this at the time. But the inferiority complex would apply to Muslims alone since they are constantly being told that the culture they are born into is barbaric and archaic by the Fulbe Islamic preachers who had no sedentary culture of their own to protect being newly settled nomads, they became Islamic purists and started to condemn non Islamic cultures as inferior. Such a situation will lead to the Fulbe having airs while the Yoruba will have inferiority complex. Only a strong government can deal with such an issue. SUCH IS STILL HAPPENING TODAY.

2prexios:


A Yoruba adage says 'kosi bimu alagbaro sele gun to, eni to gboko fun loga re'. The Yoruba were not awed by Fulani in those days cause they see them as kith and kin of the Hausa (Gambari pa Fulani o lejo nnu), a typical Fulani is imale, as in "a Malian" to the Yoruba forebears.

The Yoruba used to keep both group as slaves until the decline of the slave trade and Oyo empire. And that's what sultan Bello was saying that they Yoruba sells people from the north to the whites as slaves.

A tale to buttress this point is the way this proverb came to being: won o feo nilu, oloofe darin, booba da tan tani o bao gbe?" The proverb belonged to Sheu Alimi when he ordered the death of a Yoruba masquerade.

The masquerade was an itinerant one from igbomina and it used to flatter people from place to place. he flatters Alimi thus: "ebami ki Alimi, eru sewa doba?" meaning "salute to Alimi, how did a slave become king?".

The word filter to the palace and when the masquerade was on homeward journey that pass through Ilorin, he was arrested. At the point of death, he said he like to make a song and he still kept saying the word that he was about to be killed for.

The word of the song is how Yoruba viewed the fulbe in the 19th century, except you lived at a different epoch of it. Aole shot in different directions and says that the slaves will lord it over the Yoruba.

It is the mentality of the time he was referring to, as typified in Muslim mass movement (Jamma) that's going on then at Ilorin under the influence of Alimi, their leader, as orchestrated by Afonja.

So how does Oyo view Fulbe again?

Yoruba forebears had great value for valor and pride in their way of life, they began to feel inferior after the incessant attack on their culture by foreign religion, not before it.

They lose their cultural pride and their hitherto 'superior will' decapitated. The new religion is about proselytizing with incessant arguments that Yoruba were not conversant with in their native intelligence.

A house divided against itself.

2prexios:


I'm new to this inferiority complex you talk about, but you may want to know Johnson reported Sultan Bello's view of the Yoruba as at the time. It depends on which perspective suits what argument but such is not a Yoruba character.

GorkoSusaay:


I find it always fascinating that Johnson had access to Sultan Bello's Infaq al-Maysur. The first translation in English was by the colonial administrator Palmer in 1908-9. Don't know if Rev. Samuel Johnson was still alive by then.
But if you read the Infaq, this is one of the main point of contention for Sultan Bello. I paraphrase him but he says something about the Christian ships anchored in the sea, and how "Yoruba" raids and captures "Muslims" to sell them to these ships.
Oyo was mighty and used to control many trade routes linked to slavery back then (Lagos, Badagry, Porto-Novo, Ouidah).

AjaanaOka:


Did he have access to Sultan Bello's work? Doubt it. Seems to me that whatever he knew about Bello and his scholarship came secondhand from Hugh Clapperton's writings.

GorkoSusaay:


Yes, Clapperton could be another source. I don't think there's mention of Bello's concern with slave raids from Yoruba though.
Infaq al-Maysur was written between 1812 and 1817 and it is certain that it was widely available in Bornu, Kano and Ilorin in the 19th century. This could be another gateway

GorkoSusaay:


You have the truth of it. From Ilorin, Oyo used to raid in the North Central Nigeria. Many Nupe, Hausa and other Hausa-speaking ethnicities were enslaved by the Yoruba (originally, the name for the Oyo, as Ijebu, Egba refer to specific groups).
That is why the proverbs are so on point. Afonja and Shehu Alimi used this mass of Hausa-speaking enslaved groups to build an independent army. They spoke Yoruba, knew the country, every hill and brook in the West, and yearned for freedom. But while Shehu Alimi would free and settle those that flocked to them and those that they captured in war, earning their gratitude, Afonja had a haughty demeanor towards them. This is how some in Afonja's army came to be increasingly more loyal to Alimi than to Afonja.

GorkoSusaay:


Yes, Clapperton could be another source. I don't think there's mention of Bello's concern with slave raids from Yoruba though.
Infaq al-Maysur was written between 1812 and 1817 and it is certain that it was widely available in Bornu, Kano and Ilorin in the 19th century. This could be another gateway

GorkoSusaay:


I find it always fascinating that Johnson had access to Sultan Bello's Infaq al-Maysur. The first translation in English was by the colonial administrator Palmer in 1908-9. Don't know if Rev. Samuel Johnson was still alive by then.
But if you read the Infaq, this is one of the main point of contention for Sultan Bello. I paraphrase him but he says something about the Christian ships anchored in the sea, and how "Yoruba" raids and captures "Muslims" to sell them to these ships.
Oyo was mighty and used to control many trade routes linked to slavery back then (Lagos, Badagry, Porto-Novo, Ouidah).

GorkoSusaay:


I find it always fascinating that Johnson had access to Sultan Bello's Infaq al-Maysur. The first translation in English was by the colonial administrator Palmer in 1908-9. Don't know if Rev. Samuel Johnson was still alive by then.
But if you read the Infaq, this is one of the main point of contention for Sultan Bello. I paraphrase him but he says something about the Christian ships anchored in the sea, and how "Yoruba" raids and captures "Muslims" to sell them to these ships.
Oyo was mighty and used to control many trade routes linked to slavery back then (Lagos, Badagry, Porto-Novo, Ouidah).

lawani:


I was not there too but it was Rev Johnson's opinion in his book 'History of the Yorubas'. He went to the extent of saying that the Yoruba people preferred to ally with the Fulani but that the reigning Alaafin refused to agree with the majority and rather alligned himself with the King of Borgu to the North East. He said the Yoruba were not happy with the Alaafin for doing this at the time. But the inferiority complex would apply to Muslims alone since they are constantly being told that the culture they are born into is barbaric and archaic by the Fulbe Islamic preachers who had no sedentary culture of their own to protect being newly settled nomads, they became Islamic purists and started to condemn non Islamic cultures as inferior. Such a situation will lead to the Fulbe having airs while the Yoruba will have inferiority complex. Only a strong government can deal with such an issue. SUCH IS STILL HAPPENING TODAY.

2prexios:


That's what the Sultan said, meanwhile it's possible that he was referring to the slave train en route Yoruba dominion from Hauaaland.

We can always count on eye witness experience on this phase of history. There were Yoruba slave raiders who ransacked Oshoogun when Crowther was a kid. This raiders sold the little boy into slavery.

This opportunists have no cultural connection to their spoils who were mere victims of circumstance. Hence anyone could have enslaved anyone at the time given the opportunity. And the old Oyo were involved.

GorkoSusaay:


It was a terrible epoch. What Johnson wrote about the slave-raiding activities of Alaafin Aole, when he was prince, is telling.
I don't know where I read that Rev. Crowther's wife, Susanna, was an enslaved Fulani girl that was recaptured. Hassana, was supposedly her original name.

On Crowther, some say those that ransacked his hometown (Osogun) were Yoruba, while other Fulani. They were likely some elements of Afonja's army, hence the conflicting accounts.

2prexios:


Hmm

Very terrible time indeed. The Fulani raid associated with Crowther were the ravaging army of the Ilorin emirate that Crowther blamed for carnage in Yoruba in his reportage.

Informed speculations will likely confuse his report to the CMS with the story of his journey into slavery, but the truth is, record have it that the Yoruba raiders sacked Osogun.