Empiree:
lol, You have gone from Jabata to jalabi, to group dhikr. You just seeing this hadith for the first time and it makes you feel good, right?. This is the hadith quoted by sheikh Abu Usammah of GREEN MASJID in London to silence those people doing it. Am coming back for you.I remember responding to the him on YouTube back then.

Don't worry, there are other bunch of ahadith in support of grour dhikr. That would rubbish this one. You have one major problem here and that is, its ISNAD doesn't reach Rosulullah (saw). You should rather focus on Jabata before I come for you

And where is the claim that the hadith reached rosulullaah? We are talking about the opinions of the companions of the prophet on what you are supporting now, didnt you see where i underlined that the prophet was dead when this incident happen? your problem is, you read with the aim of refuting and its very bad, you don't learn that way.

cyojunior1:


To be frank as a muslim I always stood firm to all these critics from all these people but not knowing that they are only trying to shed more light on what islam implies to wat sahih bukhari is portraying to the world causing different sect to follow false hadeeth leading to destruction of lifes n properties

Mudeer moricas : sheik habeebullah adam abdullahi al-ilory is only creating an annex for those who are reasonable to see wat the so call al-fitnah wal has portrayed wat islam is to the world which is not so !

salaam brother, please don't get it twisted. Sheikh Habib did not condemn Imam Bukhari. Imam didn't write all the ahadith in his Sahih. They lied and attributed many narrations to him. That's what Sheik ilory is saying. Imam bukhari (ra) was a great Alfa and he's rolling in his grave now for those attributed and falsified lies against him about the prophet (saw). So pls try to spot what sheikh ilory is saying.

Empiree:
salaam brother, please don't get it twisted. Sheikh Habib did not condemn Imam Bukhari. Imam didn't write all the ahadith in his Sahih. They lied and attributed many narrations to him. That's what Sheik ilory is saying. Imam bukhari (ra) was a great Alfa and he's rolling in his grave now for those attributed and falsified lies against him about the propher (saw). So pls try to spot what sheikh ilory is saying.

What a hypocrite you are, weeks back you were commending people that attacked the rubbish habib was saying, you even posted a video of sheikh imran majeed Eleha refuting habib, and now you are saying these?

Habib wasnt condemning bukhari yet he called him a blind man, he said Bukhari does not understand arabic and some other rubbish, must you lie?

lexiconkabir:


What a hypocrite you are, weeks back you were commending people that attacked the rubbish habib was saying, you even posted a video of sheikh imran majeed Eleha refuting habib, and now you are saying these?

Lol, you may never understand me.

Let me tell you this. When I first listened to Sheik ilory, I disagreed with him. After that, I saw imam majeed eleha''s response and that sits well with me. I was basically learning to deduce from both sides. After that I listened to sheik ilory again and realized what he's saying. He's right to some extent. His opponents accused him of not understanding Arabic properly . But now I have listened to much of his lectures further.

I get his point but I'm not giving him my full support not even sheik majeed either bcus he too gave a very weak defence that sheik ilory trashed out about some ahadith in bukhari. How does that make me hypocrite for trying to learn here and there? . I don't support either sides. I deduce from their knowledge. But if you still have in mind that all the hadith in sahih bukhari are valid, you must be living in Disney land

As for him not reciting sura fathia correctly as you alleged, I thought that too when I started listening to the saga BTW him and sheik sarumi. I was surprised when sheik ilory mumbles recitations. But this is what i have observed about him and I can be wrong.

It looks like he has defect in his tongue. You notice even when he speaks his mother tongue, he mumbles not just arabic. This is my observation and it doesn't mean he can't recite properly. Listen to him again, you would notice how he drags his tongue when he speaks yoruba. This reflects when he speaks arabic or recites Quran.

#myopinion

lexiconkabir:




Habib wasnt condemning bukhari yet he called him a blind man, he said Bukhari does not understand arabic and some other rubbish, must you lie?

pleasee you need to listen to sheik ilory in full. He explained what he meant by blind man in arabic. It's not considered insult. He gave about 3 examples. That if you call a tall man "dongo" or "dogo". To yoruba people is sounds like taunting or insulting tall person. But to hausa man, dongo is dongo. It's not taunting. The same thing applies to arabic, afoju is afoju in Arabic. It's not insult or taunting bukhari.

It's the same in English YOU is YOU whether the person is old than me or not it is YOU. It doesn't mean you taunt or insult elders. Get it? . If you listen to sheik ilory on this, you get his point. You most likely didn't even listen to him but get info from others. That's rumors

lexiconkabir:


And where is the claim that the hadith reached rosulullaah? We are talking about the opinions of the companions of the prophet on what you are supporting now, didnt you see where i underlined that the prophet was dead when this incident happen? your problem is, you read with the aim of refuting and its very bad, you don't learn that way.

what are you doing? . Aren't you refuting them for the sake of refutation?.
Well, I'm still coming back. There are ahadith supporting group dhikr in the time of the prophet. This one you qouted only reached one companion which means it is his opinion.

Empiree:
pleasee you need to listen to sheik ilory in full. He explained what he meant by blind man in arabic. It's not considered insult. He gave about 3 examples. That if you call a tall man "dongo" or "dogo". To yoruba people is sounds like taunting or insulting tall person. But to hausa man, dongo is dongo. It's not taunting. The same thing applies to arabic, afoju is afoju in Arabic. It's not insult or taunting bukhari.

It's the same in English YOU is YOU whether the person is old than me or not it is YOU. It doesn't mean you taunt or insult elders. Get it? . If you listen to sheik ilory on this, you get his point. You most likely didn't even listen to him but get info from others. That's rumors

I listened to him, i didnt here rumors i didn't say he taunted imaam Bukhari, what he was driving at is, how could "blind imaam Bukhari" compile those hadith, or am i wrong? If you ask me thats condemnation.

Empiree:
pleasee you need to listen to sheik ilory in full. He explained what he meant by blind man in arabic. It's not considered insult. He gave about 3 examples. That if you call a tall man "dongo" or "dogo". To yoruba people is sounds like taunting or insulting tall person. But to hausa man, dongo is dongo. It's not taunting. The same thing applies to arabic, afoju is afoju in Arabic. It's not insult or taunting bukhari.

It's the same in English YOU is YOU whether the person is old than me or not it is YOU. It doesn't mean you taunt or insult elders. Get it? . If you listen to sheik ilory on this, you get his point. You most likely didn't even listen to him but get info from others. That's rumors

I listened to him, i didnt here rumors i didn't say he taunted imaam Bukhari, what he was driving at is, how could "blind imaam Bukhari" compile those ahadith, or am i wrong? If you ask me thats condemnation.

Empiree:
what are you doing? . Aren't you refuting them for the sake of refutation?.
Well, I'm still coming back. There are ahadith supporting group dhikr in the time of the prophet. This one you qouted only reached one companion which means it is his opinion.

There is a difference, i listened to them in the past to learn, but we werent on the same page at all, thats why I'm refuting them, you on the other hand read my post with the aim of refuting not to understand what i say.

You see why i said you dont read my post? The post you just quoted says "And where is the claim that the hadith reached rosulullaah? We are talking about the opinions of the companions of the prophet on what you are supporting now, didnt you see where i underlined that the prophet was dead when this incident happen? "

Read Empiree, read!

lexiconkabir:


I listened to him, i didnt here rumors i didn't say he taunted imaam Bukhari, what he was driving at is, how could "blind imaam Bukhari" compile those ahadith, or am i wrong? If you ask me thats condemnation.

you think I didn't read you well? . Alright I'm done here cus you just twisted again. You said he condemned imam bukhari for calling him a blind man. You didn't say you knew where he was driving at.

Empiree:
you think I didn't read you well? . Alright I'm done here cus you just twisted again. You said he condemned imam bukhari for calling him a blind man. You didn't say you knew where he was driving at.

Ok, tell us why he said that if not for the reason i mentioned?

This is not about winning or loosing arguments or even following whims and desires, its about Islam, so you might want to have a rethink about what you doing.....

Empiree:
salaam brother, please don't get it twisted. Sheikh Habib did not condemn Imam Bukhari. Imam didn't write all the ahadith in his Sahih. They lied and attributed many narrations to him. That's what Sheik ilory is saying. Imam bukhari (ra) was a great Alfa and he's rolling in his grave now for those attributed and falsified lies against him about the prophet (saw). So pls try to spot what sheikh ilory is saying.

Waleikum salam Broder, no one is getting it twisted here it is obvious that sheik habib (maraaka zamam ) has not condemn sahih bukhari but he is only bringing it out from d dust ,makin a review of those malicious attributes contradicting the quran. May ALLAH by his fine mercy preserve mudeer morcas !

cyojunior1:


Waleikum salam Broder, no one is getting it twisted here it is obvious that sheik habib (maraaka zamam ) has not condemn sahih bukhari but he is only bringing it out from d dust ,makin a review of those malicious attributes contradicting the quran. May ALLAH by his fine mercy preserve mudeer morcas !

Na'am

^^ "birds of a feather flock together" ~ William Turner.

"Facts are very stubborn, there are stubborn because you can't play around with them" ~ Adel Al-jubeir(Saudi's foreign minister).

Salaam.

Bismillahi Rahman Rahim

On Dhikr and Group Dhikr


Allah says in His Glorious Kitab



“O You who believe! Remember Allah with much remembrance” [33:41].



The Prophet pbuh said,

“Allah says: ‘I am just as My slave thinks I am, (i.e. I am able to do for him what he thinks I can do for him) and I am with him if He remembers Me. If he remembers Me in himself, I too, remember him in Myself; and if he remembers Me in a group of people, I remember him in a group that is better than they; and if he comes one span nearer to Me, I go one cubit nearer to him; and if he comes one cubit nearer to Me, I go a distance of two outstretched arms nearer to him; and if he comes to Me walking, I go to him running” [Sahih Bukhari].



In Tafsir of this verse Imam al-Qurtubi (rah) mentions the hadith:


وروى أبو سعيد عن النبيّ صلى الله عليه وسلّم: «أكثروا ذكر الله حتى يقولوا مجنون


Translation: Abu Sa'eed al Khudri (ra) narrates from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) who said: Do Dhikr so much that people start calling you Majnoon (mad) [Tafsir ul Qurtubi, Volume No. 14, Page No. 197]


Sounds familiar? You and the sister have called me mischievous over this.



Imam Ibn Kathir (rah) also narrated it in his Tafsir al Quran al Azim and he also showed another hadith:


ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم: اذكروا الله ذكراً كثيراً حتى يقول المنافقون إِنكم تراؤون


Translation: Narrated by Ibn Abbas (ra) who said that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: Remember Allah in abundance to the extent that Munafiqeen say that you are showing off [Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Volume No. 6, Page No. 384]



There is also no restriction of doing Dhikr alone or only by sitting down, we can stand up and do Dhikr or send Salawat on Prophet (Peace be upon him).

Qur'an states:


الَّذِينَ يَذْكُرُونَ اللَّهَ قِيَامًا وَقُعُودًا وَعَلَىٰ جُنُوبِهِمْ وَيَتَفَكَّرُونَ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ رَبَّنَا مَا خَلَقْتَ هَٰذَا بَاطِلًا سُبْحَانَكَ فَقِنَا عَذَابَ النَّارِ


Translation: Who remember Allah while "STANDING" or sitting or [lying] on their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth, [saying], "Our Lord, You did not create this aimlessly; exalted are You [above such a thing]; then protect us from the punishment of the Fire. (al-Qur'an 3:191)



This hadith here cunter the hadith you quoted lexiconkabir



عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْخُدْرِيِّ رضي الله عنه قَالَ: خَرَجَ مُعَاوِيَةُ عَلَى حَلْقَةٍ فِي الْمَسْجِدِ، فَقَالَ: ... إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم خَرَجَ عَلَى حَلْقَةٍ مِنْ أَصْحَابِهِ، فَقَالَ: مَا أَجْلَسَكُمْ؟ قَالُوا: جَلَسْنَا نَذْكُرُ اللَّهَ وَنَحْمَدُهُ عَلَى مَا هَدَانَا لِلْإِسْلَامِ، وَمَنَّ بِهِ عَلَيْنَا. قَالَ: آللَّهِ مَا أَجْلَسَكُمْ إِلَّا ذَاكَ؟ قَالُوا: وَاللَّهِ مَا أَجْلَسَنَا إِلَّا ذَاكَ. قَالَ: أَمَا إِنِّي لَمْ أَسْتَحْلِفْكُمْ تُهْمَةً لَكُمْ، وَلَكِنَّهُ أَتَانِي جِبْرِيلُ، فَأَخْبَرَنِي أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ يُبَاهِي بِكُمُ الْمَلَائِكَةَ

Translation: Abu Saeed Khudri (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that Muawiyah (رضی اللہ عنہ) came to a group of people in the mosque and said, “… The Messenger of Allah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) came to a group of his Companions in the mosque and said, ‘Why are you sitting?’ They said, ‘We are sitting remembering Allah and paying our thanks to Him for His favour of guiding us to Islam.’ The Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, ‘Do you say that on oath that is what has made you sit here?’ They submitted, ‘By Allah we are sitting here only for this purpose.’ The Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, ‘I have not made you take oath for any doubt but the truth is that Gabriel came and told me that Allah is expressing His pride on you in front of angels.’”

References

►Muslim, as-Sahih (4:2075#2701)
►Tirmidhi, as-Sunan (5:460#3379)
►Nasai, as-Sunan (8:249#5426)
►Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (4:92)
►Ibn Hibban, as-Sahih (3:95#813)
►Ibn Abi Shaybah, al-Musannaf (6:59#29469)
►Tabarani, al-Mujam-ul-kabir (19:311#701)
►Mindhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:259#2317)



[size=15pt]Angels search streets/roads for Dhikr gatherings.[/size]

عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رضي الله عنه قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم: إِنَّ لِلَّهِ مَلَائِكَةً يَطُوفُونَ فِي الطُّرُقِ، يَلْتَمِسُونَ أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ، فَإِذَا وَجَدُوا قَوْمًا يَذْكُرُونَ اللَّهَ تَنَادَوْا، هَلُمُّوا إِلَى حَاجَتِكُمْ

Translation: Abu Huraira (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “Allah has angels who roam about on roads looking for the love-sick rememberers of Allah. When they find such people, they call out other angels: ‘Come here to your coveted aspiration….’”

References:
► Bukhari, as-Sahih (5:2353#6045)
► Ibn Hibban, as-Sahih (3:139#857)
► Bayhaqi, Shuab-ul-iman (1:399#531)
► Ibn Rajab, Jami-ul-ulum wal-hikam (1:345)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:258#2316)




عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رضي الله عنه، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم، قَالَ: إِنَّ لِلَّهِ تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى مَلَائِكَةً سَيَّارَةً فُضُلًا يَتَتَبَّعُونَ مَجَالِسَ الذِّكْرِ، فَإِذَا وَجَدُوا مَجْلِسًا فِيهِ ذِكْرٌ، قَعَدُوا مَعَهُمْ

Translation: Abu Huraira (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that the Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “Surely there are some angels of Allah (SWT) who conduct patrolling in search of remembrance assemblies (A: Majalis al-Dhikr - this proves Group dhikr gatherings held by Sufis). When they find such an assembly, they join and sit with them…”

References:
► Muslim, as-Sahih (4:2069#2689)
► Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (2:25#7420)
► Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (2:382#8960)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:259#2316)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (4:244#5523)


You want some more brother lexicon?. I got more?. The first hadith you quoted only traced to one sahaba. His opinion doesn't count since group dhikr was done in the time of the prophet(saw). Every hadith i have been quoting traced back to the prophet (Allah's blessings and peace be upon him)


I will no longer respond to you on Sheik Ilory. His point is clear to me and i have no problem with him. I only disagree with him on the return of Isa (AS) and few other stuff.

And I am done really on this. I have made my point clear but you want to believe what you want. I have defended ESSENCE of "Jalabi" i:e IWOSAN (medical) which is backed by Qur'an and Sunnah but you and the sister said herbs is for herbalist and your evidence is dictionary's definition while i provided EVIDENCE from Quran and hadith. You snubbed bcus you didnt see the prophet goes to the farm.


Ridiculous!


But then, you would turn around and take doctor's advice to give you pills made of same herbs mentioned in the Quran & Sunnah. You abandoned "prophetic medicines" for pills made by Oyinbo and you said that's not bid'a because in your mind,it it is worldly matter. But when a muslim does the same, it's bid'a?. FANTASTIC!!!!


You live in CONTRADICTED world. BUt it is easy for you to get support when you keep saying "following Quran and sunnah and sahaba". bcus that's your anthem. But when it comes to practicing medics in the Sunnah, you lost.

^^ you must be so pained for you to have dedicated so much epistle to me with the thinking that i wont reply it, pele oo, insha Allaahu ta'ala i will respond to it

Empiree:
And I am done really on this. I have made my point clear but you want to believe what you want. I have defended ESSENCE of "Jalabi" i:e IWOSAN (medical) which is backed by Qur'an and Sunnah but you and the sister said herbs is for herbalist and your evidence is dictionary's definition while i provided EVIDENCE from Quran and hadith. You snubbed bcus you didnt see the prophet goes to the farm.


Ridiculous!


But then, you would turn around and take doctor's advice to give you pills made of same herbs mentioned in the Quran & Sunnah. You abandoned "prophetic medicines" for pills made by Oyinbo and you said that's not bid'a because in your mind,it it is worldly matter. But when a muslim does the same, it's bid'a?. FANTASTIC!!!!


You live in CONTRADICTED world. BUt it is easy for you to get support when you keep saying "following Quran and sunnah and sahaba". bcus that's your anthem. But when it comes to practicing medics in the Sunnah, you lost.

Brother Empiree please go back and read!

You made many accusations you ween't able to defend and then refused to provide evidence for your statements.

[b]You claimed that the Prophet and sahabas only used surah Al- Fathia as healing yet you didn't provide evidence for it.

You claimed that the Prophet didn't ask the sahabas to recite surah Yasin a lot because it would inconvinience them yet you didnt provide your evidence for it

You claimed that following the prophet would mean not seeking medical treatment yet you didn't provide your evidences whilst I provided mine.

You claimed that the sahabas wouldn't have accepted Islam or would have left Islam if the prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) had told them to recite surah Yasin 200 times they would have left it

You made accusations against me that I denied a hadith a where the prophet approved of reciting Al- fathia for ruqyah as I didn't you haven't provided evidence.

Once again you claimed I accused you of being mischievous regarding group dkhir whereas I didn't. My last post was in the morning

Not once did you answer any of the questions I raised or provide evidence to back up your claims.[/b]

Why do you go about making accusations without evidence or proofs?

I am starting to see you as a deceitful fellow and I find it difficult to take you serious. I never for once denied that herbs are a form of medication ( for someone who knows pharmacology, it would be ignorant of me to do so). I always maintained that what I was against was innovation.

If you want me to posts evidences (to prove your accusations), I have no problem posting them.

No pain here. I already dealt with issue with draggnet and newman in the past and some others.

Here is snother story to buttress my point. This not about ego and of-course i didnt write epistle to get you tired. I write them with evidence. STOP condemning what you dont understand. Thats my point. You are only threading religion. You dont know it.

Here is another opportunity muslims lost some yrs back. It happened in Indonesia where two young locals went to the farm They found a big tree with huge roots. They extracted piece from it and tasted it. It tastes very bitter. So they thought it could be useful for some health benefits. What they are doing is RESEARCH. They didnt need the Sahaba (rodiyaAllahu ajmoin) to tell them that. They don't need hadith for instructions. It is medical research.

I think the name of the root is called tunkert Ali. I didn't spell it correct. But that's how it sounds. So they brought the roof to prepared for medicines. The other locals, I mean people like you and those alfas condemning everything in nija, they have them in indonesia as well. they condemned the dudes. Later researchers or explorers from America discovered the same tree, extracted the root and took it to their country. They tested it in their lab and discovered it is not only good for stomach pain but for general health benefits including premature ejculation. But the 2 locals from indonesia who first discovered it only used it for stomach disease. Now White people took the CREDIT for the medicine that muslims could have easily took credit for. Now if you go to internet, white people have packaged the meds in form of pills and powder and they sell it on their credit to their own advantage. They now window dressed the root, repackaged it and resells it to indonesia and around the world. I bought 2kg myself 2yrs ago. It taste horrible.

So this is what i was trying to tell you. You can't just condemn something or practices without deep understanding or other option. Islam is NOT restricted to pen and paper. Islam is also on lips and hands. Jalabi started as a form of medicines and Dawah. Go and do the research. It is not exclusive to ibadah

Empiree:
No pain here. I already dealt with issue with draggnet and newman in the past and some others.

Here is snother story to buttress my point. This not about ego and of-course i didnt write epistle to get you tired. I write them with evidence. STOP condemning what you dont understand. Thats my point. You are only threading religion. You dont know it.

Here is another opportunity muslims lost some yrs back. It happened in Indonesia where two young locals went to the farm They found a big tree with huge roots. They extracted piece from it and tasted it. It tastes very bitter. So they thought it could be useful for some health benefits. What they are doing is RESEARCH. They didnt need the Sahaba (rodiyaAllahu ajmoin) to tell them that. They don't need hadith for instructions. It is medical research.

I think the name of the root is called tunkert Ali. I didn't spell it correct. But that's how it sounds. So they brought the roof to prepared for medicines. The other locals, I mean people like you and those alfas condemning everything in nija, they have them in indonesia as well. they condemned the dudes. Later researchers or explorers from America discovered the same tree, extracted the root and took it to their country. They tested it in their lab and discovered it is not only good for stomach pain but for general health benefits including premature ejculation. But the 2 locals from indonesia who first discovered it only used it for stomach disease. Now White people took the CREDIT for the medicine that muslims could have easily took credit for. Now if you go to internet, white people have packaged the meds in form of pills and powder and they sell it on their credit to their own advantage. They now window dressed the root, repackaged it and resells it to indonesia and around the world. I bought 2kg myself 2yrs ago. It taste horrible.

So this is what i was trying to tell you. You can't just condemn something or practices without deep understanding or other option. Islam is NOT restricted to pen and paper. Islam is also on lips and hands. Jalabi started as a form of medicines and Dawah. Go and do the research. It is not exclusive to ibadah

Read and understand! Where did I condemn herbalists? What I condemned and continue to condemn is bid'ah (People calming that reciting X surah will cause Y effect when the prophet didn't) which you openly supported.

FYI, I see that you have taken the focus again from all the baseless accusations you made and are focusing on herbs. You didn't deny or refute my previous post because it's true. I would encourage you to read back through the posts and reflect on the points raised.

lexiconkabir:
yep, a kharijee in ilorin, kwara state, his anthem is "kullu bid'atin kufr" whereas our noble prophet said "kullu bid'atin dhalaala",.

# He never changed the hadith. He only explains that "all Bid'ah is kufr since all Bid'ah leads to hell". There is absolutely nothing like division of Bid'ah: Bid'ah is Bid'ah and all of it lead to misguidance and all misguidances lead straight to hellfire. I agreed perfectly with Jabata on this interpretation of the hadith however he (and other Wahabi Shuyukh) failed 100% in their definition of Bid'ah.

# Other Wahabi Shuyukh like Dr. Alaro, Sheik Eleha et al failed to take the bull by the horn for not agreeing that "kullu - Every/all in the hadith means Kullu - Every/all, indeed. This is because they have romanced too many with Shuyukh of other sects especially Sufi. So they find it difficult to takfiri some of their practices. These are same people they invited to their programs and even make them chairmen. Jabata never do such.

Rilwayne001:


Lol.. Demola said exactly the same thing. I will see to that sha.

So, have you resolved to delete his lectures based on his opponent's recommendations without even hear him out? That will be a great injustice to your nafs and to Jabata himself. You only learn when you see deeply the arguments on both sides. Even if you cannot defeat his arguments, you will be bond to seek counter arguments from his opponents. This will improve your studies and judgments rather than being "fanatic and dogmatic". Islam is a religion of conviction not dogmatism.

# Jabata is my enemy but I always here him out before I counter him. Here's the website dedicated for the download of his lectures:
http://voiceofthesalaf.com/audios/

# I know him and few of his students, and I can confidently says majority of what lexiconkabir copy-pasted from his opponent's website are lies. No doubt Jabata is an ignorant liar as many of his wahabi-salafi compatriots. However you can judge him better by listening to him.

Contact17:

he should follow the way of the earlier scholars among the Sahaabah, Taabi’een

Officially in accordance with the salafi submitted evidence(s), there were 110,000 Sahabah. Far less than 20% of these 110,000 is known. And less than 10% narrated ahadith recorded in Sunni books. And worst still these fractions differs amongst themselves even to the point of civil wars. Why should we be bent to these less than 20%? Where's the opinion of the vast majority of the sahabah, the 80% of the total population?

# Besides, Nabi NEVER instructed any Muslim to follow any Sahabah rather he, salallahu alayhi wa ahli ordered all the Sahabah together with all Muslims and non-Muslims (Nabi says "O Mankind!) to follow the Two weighty things (in a widely reported ahadith), and by extension the Khulafau (Caliphs) who are Rashidin and Mahdiyin i.e those who know, follow and order the truth, and are being guided exclusively by Allah.

Contact17:

and the four Imams and other scholars,

Four Imams viz: Abu Hanifah, Shafii, Malik and Hanbal?!

# Wahabi-Salafi consensus (which you contact17 and your likes subscribed to), all agreed to the kufr of Imam Abu Hanifah. Yes! Imam Abu Hanifah! You need evidences, right?

# These so-called four Imams differ among themselves at a great deal in virtually everything.

# Modern Salafi sheikhs have directly or indirectly condemned or subdued all of them except their (Salafi) grandmaster, Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal.

So, it is laughable how a Salafi website islamqa could make such statement above.

Contact17:

and he should beware of every sect that differs from the main body of Muslims (jamaa’ah) by following innovation (bid’ah).

https://islamqa.info/en/90112

Division into sects ideologically, theologically or jurisprudentially is absolutely kufr.
@underlined, who is that "main body (jamaa'ah)"? What is the specific characteristics of Jama'ah according to Quran and ahadith?

lexiconkabir:
This article is aimed at exposing a fellow called Muhammad Ali jabata a takfiri who calls people to misguidance, his false teachings is now a thing of concern for students of knowledge in the south western part of Nigeria, and I feel the need to warn people about him, HE IS AMONG THE KHAWAARIJ OF OUR TIME, his students and followers are spreading his misguidance through a website which i wont give the name so some people wont be tempted to click on it, just Hold on tight to that name MUHAMMAD ALEE JABATA, if you see his name on a website, DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY AUDIO FROM THAT WEBSITE, EVEN IF IT IS ANOTHER PERSON, AS FAR AS IT IS THAT WEBSITE, THEIR IDEOLOGIES ARE ALL THE SAME, BECAUSE THE PREACHERS IN THAT WEBSITE ARE ALL HIS FOLLOWERS, BEWARE! Now here is a brief history of this Man, culled from:

http://www.simplysalafiyyah.com/A-Peek-at-False-Manhaj-of-Muhammad-Awwal-Jabata.html

Some ten years ago in South-West Nigeria, there arrived a fellow from Egypt en route Lagos and finally landed in a city known for some Islamic presence albeit Soofiyyah, Ilorin. This was a time when there was a resurgence of Sunnah-Salafiyyah in the region. Many youths were very enthusiastic to learn what was new in the Sunnah, and without much ado, would put it into action. This was also a time when many Sunnah-loving youths were freeing themselves from the blindness of hizbiyyah [blameworthy partisanship] that was being promoted by many Sunnah-seeming organizations. There were scholars of Sunnah at the time but they were very handful, or not very prominent, perhaps because the challenge was not really there.

Then the youths began to hear some conundrums from the fellow that arrived from Egypt. Things that were not what the youths were yearning for. Though some of the youths, especially those not really on the knowledge path, as usual, fell for the bait. Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalaanee [may Allâh show mercy on him], the writer of the popular Bulooghul-Maraam and the best commentary on Saheeh Bukhaari, was a Kâfir because he was an unrepentant Ash’aree (a person that makes some twistings in some of the Attributes of Allaah). Abu Haneefah [may Allâh show mercy on him] was no Imaam at all, in fact he was an ignoramus that rarely said what was correct whether in jurisprudential matters or ‘Aqeedah; he was a Mur’ji’ [a person that removes actions from belief] so he must be removed from the Four Imaams! Al-Imaam an-Nawawee [may Allâh show mercy on him] was also a Kâfir because he was as guilty as Ibn Hajar [may Allâh show mercy on him]. Al-Imaam As-Suyootee was indeed a Sufi whose comments and scholarly works amounted to nothing. If you eat with your spoon and fork you have come up with an innovation in the Deen and your abode is the hell, do not count on any excuse because there is no excuse in the matters that have to do with Aqeedah! If you have a newborn, and you invite people to it to dine with you, then you are as well as a kaafir. If your wife or daughter or mother does not cover her face then she is a sinner and her sin is nothing but a Kufr act, therefore she will enter the hellfire, no question. All the fathers are unbelievers if they do not hear what we say, hence when we pretentiously ask for the hands of their daughters in marriage and they fail to grant it we shall go ahead and marry them, there is no need for a Sharee’ah Qaadi to permit it, the Qudaat themselves are people of bid’ah and the people bid’ah, as far as we are concerned are Kuffaar, not even the minor Kufr! Kufr is Kufr just as bid’ah is bid’ah all which lands its doer in the hell as a major sin.

By Allâh, we have some youths that imbibe(d) the above false and far-from-the-correct-manhaj teachings, and of course, put them into ferocious actions declaring whomever comes with different stances even if they are more correct as kuffaar mubtadi’oon. May Allâh save the Muslims.

Nobody brought the thoughts we have mentioned to South-West Nigeria other than the fellow that came from Egypt via Lagos. His name is Muhammad Awwal Alee Jabata [may Allâh guide him and us to what is correct]. He is indeed a scourge for the Muslims in the South-West Nigeria.

As we said, he had his higher schooling in Egypt. He studied nothing but the course many scholars of Sunnah, past and present, had warned us about, Falsafa [Philosophy] in a university which nobody goes and remains safe in ‘Aqeedah and Manhaj except whomever is shown mercy by Allâh, al-Azhar University, Cairo. Jabata was doing his Master’s degrees when he was sent away from the school for anti-government activities; he was eventually jailed. One of his former first-class students, whom Allâh the Bountiful Lord has saved from him, Abdul-Fattaah Balloo, told us that when they were students under him, Jabata used to boast of being sent out of the Azhari University because of what he claimed were bold steps in saying the ‘truth’ against the government!

One very sad thing, and which has informed this important but short message, is that Jabata goes on today declaring Muslims especially the callers to Sunnah as Kuffaar because of one alleged Bid’ah or the other, in fact, he has openly declared sinners among the Muslims as Kuffaar. For instance, he said whoever eats mutton, chicken, egg, etc, from animals not well-kept have eaten scavengers therefore such a person is a sinner and is guilty of kufr that will land him in the hell fire. His tapes where he says such things are very widely spread.

It was no surprise when he declared a caller to Sunnah [we do not praise anybody above Allâh] in Ibadan as a Kâfir for allegedly permitting bowing to other than Allâh. That allegation remains a big lie.

We would have even kept quiet from writing about him if not very recently when some foot-soldiers of his came out massively online to sell the products of their fateen teacher to the non-suspecting Muslim public at the time when the love for Sunnah and Salafiyyah seems to be soaring very rapidly, all praise to Allâh.

Jabata has made himself an authority in the whole of South West Nigeria. Praise to Allâh who used some scholars and students of the Sunnah in Lagos and Ilorin to cut his wings, that was about seven years ago. Those scholars refuted him so ferociously that he went underground for years. Alhamdulillah, many youths abandoned him and we even thought he had repented from his evil statements. But today Jabata has resurfaced and found a new haven in the old city of Ibadan, the capital of the old western region of Nigeria and the arguably the largest city in Africa, and there are many ignoramuses blindly following him saying ‘he has daleel with him’. Many of these his ignoramus followers do not know how to spell their names in Arabic let alone knowing the matters of Bid’ah, Kufr and Eemaan properly. May Allâh guide all of us and them.

Among the teachings of Alee Jabata are the following:

1. That Allâh only sent the Messenger of Allâh (salaLlaahu alahyi wa sallam) to us therefore there is no need for scholarly explanations in the matters of the Deen this is why he has come up with various theories he had no one as his Imaam. AbdulFattaah Ballo told us that he was there in the class when Jabata began the Da’wah of spoon and fork is bid’ah that would lead to kufr, he said they were reading a Qaradawi book that day when he came across the issue while trying to refute the former. He said he was also present in the Waleemah of the second wife of Jabata where spoons were freely used. In fact, he said, when it seemed the gathering had run out of spoons, Jabata himself had to search for spoons to share between his guests. But just some months after, he said the use of spoon and fork is a bid’ah act that makes one a total Kâfir! That is what he and his followers say there is no exaggeration.

So Jabata believes in no scholar save his unknown teachers. Abdul-Fattaah said, truly Jabata used to quote Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn Qayyim but he would quote them when they said whatever suited his whims. He believes in himself and himself alone upon the claim that he is following the Daleel! So he is a mujtahid!

2. Similar to the point above is that Jabata does not believe in the legitimacy of the statements of the Sahabah as being useful in the Sharî’ah. He said whether a Sahabi said a thing or not is not what matters, what matters is whatever the Messenger of Allâh (salaLlaahu alahyi wa sallam) said. This therefore qualifies him to look at the issues of Islam the way he feels like since the person of the Messenger of Allâh (salaLlaahu alahyi wa sallam) alone is to be followed! It is not far that this thought of his takes him away from the manhaj of the Salaf even if he and his loyalists make a thousand claims.

Those are the Usool of Jabata known to him and his unknown teachers among whom is the deviant, Mahmood al-Haddaadee, also and Egyptiian, who championed the cause, among other deviant ones, that all the books of Ibn Hajar al-Asqalanee should be burnt because he was a Kâfir! Interestingly Jabata says he is not a follower of Haddaadee. He would sometime want to burst into crying whenever he is attributed to Haddaadee. AbdulFattaah Ballo told us that Jabata once said that Haddaadee himself was a Kâfir to him! We say that it is not new for a bunch of Takfeeris ending up calling one another Kuffaar. One of the scholars has said that if you gather ten Takfeeris in a room, they will end up calling one another kuffaar. There are many other things Jabata would deny whenever he is cornered.

Whether Jabata and his followers like it or not, he is a Haddaadee and a Takfeeri [a person who unjustly declares Muslims as unbelievers because of one sins or the other that sometimes include bid’ah] thus his words are not to be taken. His speeches are to be avoided. Warnings have to go on against him and his followers, until the Deen become Allah’s alone.

Lastly, we think it would not be proper if we fail to bring the concise description made by one of the Shuyookh of Sunnah in South West Nigeria, Ash-Shaykh Najeem Sulayman [may Allâh lengthen his life on goodness], about the person and manhaj of Alee Jabata. The Shaykh said:

'He is bold on falsehood. His tongue is (always) drawn out. His speeches are unmarketable, rejected even false. He never smelt Da'wah Salafiyyah let alone tasting it. Allaah's aid is sought.'

How did you knw his teachings are false if not by listened to him, so, let's download and listen to what he has to say too, we might gain one or two things from his teachings. Oya send the link to us. Btw, there is clear diff btw 'Haram and Halaal'

Antina:


How did you knw his teachings are false if not by listened to him, so, let's download and listen to what he has to say too, we might gain one or two things from his teachings. Oya send the link to us. Btw, there is clear diff btw 'Haram and Halaal'

Smh.

AlBaqir:


# He never changed the hadith. He only explains that "all Bid'ah is kufr since all Bid'ah leads to hell". There is absolutely nothing like division of Bid'ah: Bid'ah is Bid'ah and all of it lead to misguidance and all misguidances lead straight to hellfire. I agreed perfectly with Jabata on this interpretation of the hadith however he (and other Wahabi Shuyukh) failed 100% in their definition of Bid'ah.

I didnt say he changed the hadith, i said it is his anthem, i am not surprised that you agree on jabata's interpretation, ever heard of bid'a abu israaeela or bid'a marwaniyya? If you know about this, youll knoa that both you and jabata are wrong.

# Other Wahabi Shuyukh like Dr. Alaro, Sheik Eleha et al failed to take the bull by the horn for not agreeing that "kullu - Every/all in the hadith means Kullu - Every/all, indeed. This is because they have romanced too many with Shuyukh of other sects especially Sufi. So they find it difficult to takfiri some of their practices. These are same people they invited to their programs and even make them chairmen. Jabata never do such.

Maybe you mean Imran Eleha but i don't know about Dr Alaro that much, i also have reservations for for Eleha, well thats a topic for another day, romancing or not, i have given you a clue why jabata is wrong.

So, have you resolved to delete his lectures based on his opponent's recommendations without even hear him out? That will be a great injustice to your nafs and to Jabata himself. You only learn when you see deeply the arguments on both sides. Even if you cannot defeat his arguments, you will be bond to seek counter arguments from his opponents. This will improve your studies and judgments rather than being "fanatic and dogmatic". Islam is a religion of conviction not dogmatism.

Its better he doesnt listen to him, but why are you bent on misguiding prople? You have listened to him, you know he has errors, yet you still tell another brother to listen to him and find these errors himself? Oga fun yin o

# I know him and few of his students, and I can confidently says majority of what lexiconkabir copy-pasted from his opponent's website are lies. No doubt Jabata is an ignorant liar as many of his wahabi-salafi compatriots. However you can judge him better by listening to him.

You can start by mentioning the lies that was written about him.

lexiconkabir:


Smh.

[

@Empiree

Bismillahi Rahman Rahim

Innal hamdulillaah, nahmaduhu wa nasta’inuhu wa nastagfir, wa na’udhubillaahi min shururi anfusinaa wa min sayyi aati a’maalina, man yahdihillaahu falaa mudullala, wa man yudlil falaa hadiyalahu, wa ash adu anlaa ilaaha illallaah, wahdahuula sharikalahu wa ash adu anna Muhammadan Abduhu wa rasuluhu.
Fa inna khayrul kalaam, kalaamullaah, wa khayrul hadi, hadi Muhammadin(S.A.W), wa sharrul umoori Muhdathaatuhu, wa kulla Muhdathatin bid’a, wa kulla bid’atin dhalaala, wa kulla dhalaalatin finnaar

On Dhikr and Group Dhikr

Alright let’s see it.

Allah says in His Glorious Kitab



“O You who believe! Remember Allah with much remembrance” [33:41].

No suggestion of group dhikr yet, it just say that we should remember Allaah with much Remembrance, we are not against dhikr, but we are against the bid’ah called group dhikr.

Allaah says;

“And remember your Lord by your tongue and within yourself, humbly and with fear without loudness in words in the mornings.” [7:205]

The Prophet pbuh said,

“Allah says: ‘I am just as My slave thinks I am, (i.e. I am able to do for him what he thinks I can do for him) and I am with him if He remembers Me. If he remembers Me in himself, I too, remember him in Myself; and if he remembers Me in a group of people, I remember him in a group that is better than they; and if he comes one span nearer to Me, I go one cubit nearer to him; and if he comes one cubit nearer to Me, I go a distance of two outstretched arms nearer to him; and if he comes to Me walking, I go to him running” [Sahih Bukhari].



In Tafsir of this verse Imam al-Qurtubi (rah) mentions the hadith:


وروى أبو سعيد عن النبيّ صلى الله عليه وسلّم: «أكثروا ذكر الله حتى يقولوا مجنون


Translation: Abu Sa'eed al Khudri (ra) narrates from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) who said: Do Dhikr so much that people start calling you Majnoon (mad) [Tafsir ul Qurtubi, Volume No. 14, Page No. 197]


Sounds familiar? You and the sister have called me mischievous over this.



Imam Ibn Kathir (rah) also narrated it in his Tafsir al Quran al Azim and he also showed another hadith:


ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم: اذكروا الله ذكراً كثيراً حتى يقول المنافقون إِنكم تراؤون


Translation: Narrated by Ibn Abbas (ra) who said that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: Remember Allah in abundance to the extent that Munafiqeen say that you are showing off [Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Volume No. 6, Page No. 384]

Please how does this hadith suggests group dhikr? The hadith talks about a slave of Allaah remembering Him while he is alone, or while he is among people(not that they are doing dhikr together, but he is among group people), say for instance, you are in your workplace, aren’t you among group of people? Yes you are, so Allaah says if you remember him among group of people, he remembers you in exactly the same way but in a group better than yours, if we are to take your interpretation, then you are saying Allaah sits among this “better group” and do dhikr, is that what you are saying? Astagfirullaah!

As you can see, the tafsir you cited did not even suggest group dhirk, it only says we should remember Allaah in abundance, if you remember Allaah where there are people. You are also likely to be called a mad person or to be accused of showing off, so brother this hadith cannot be used.

There is also no restriction of doing Dhikr alone or only by sitting down, we can stand up and do Dhikr or send Salawat on Prophet (Peace be upon him).

Qur'an states:


الَّذِينَ يَذْكُرُونَ اللَّهَ قِيَامًا وَقُعُودًا وَعَلَىٰ جُنُوبِهِمْ وَيَتَفَكَّرُونَ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ رَبَّنَا مَا خَلَقْتَ هَٰذَا بَاطِلًا سُبْحَانَكَ فَقِنَا عَذَابَ النَّارِ


Translation: Who remember Allah while "STANDING" or sitting or [lying] on their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth, [saying], "Our Lord, You did not create this aimlessly; exalted are You [above such a thing]; then protect us from the punishment of the Fire. (al-Qur'an 3:191)

This doesn’t suggest group dhikr either, it says we should remember Allaah which ever posture we find ourselves, standing, sitting or lying on our sides, this Ayah is also like that hadith that stated we should remember Allaah wherever we find our self, if we are alone, or we are in a place where people are, so much so that you may be called a madman or a “karimi” – showoff

To be continued

continuation

This hadith here counter the hadith you quoted lexiconkabir



عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْخُدْرِيِّ رضي الله عنه قَالَ: خَرَجَ مُعَاوِيَةُ عَلَى حَلْقَةٍ فِي الْمَسْجِدِ، فَقَالَ: ... إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم خَرَجَ عَلَى حَلْقَةٍ مِنْ أَصْحَابِهِ، فَقَالَ: مَا أَجْلَسَكُمْ؟ قَالُوا: جَلَسْنَا نَذْكُرُ اللَّهَ وَنَحْمَدُهُ عَلَى مَا هَدَانَا لِلْإِسْلَامِ، وَمَنَّ بِهِ عَلَيْنَا. قَالَ: آللَّهِ مَا أَجْلَسَكُمْ إِلَّا ذَاكَ؟ قَالُوا: وَاللَّهِ مَا أَجْلَسَنَا إِلَّا ذَاكَ. قَالَ: أَمَا إِنِّي لَمْ أَسْتَحْلِفْكُمْ تُهْمَةً لَكُمْ، وَلَكِنَّهُ أَتَانِي جِبْرِيلُ، فَأَخْبَرَنِي أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ يُبَاهِي بِكُمُ الْمَلَائِكَةَ

Translation: Abu Saeed Khudri (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that Muawiyah (رضی اللہ عنہ) came to a group of people in the mosque and said, “… The Messenger of Allah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) came to a group of his Companions in the mosque and said, ‘Why are you sitting?’ They said, ‘We are sitting remembering Allah and paying our thanks to Him for His favour of guiding us to Islam.’ The Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, ‘Do you say that on oath that is what has made you sit here?’ They submitted, ‘By Allah we are sitting here only for this purpose.’ The Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, ‘I have not made you take oath for any doubt but the truth is that Gabriel came and told me that Allah is expressing His pride on you in front of angels.’”

References

►Muslim, as-Sahih (4:2075#2701)
►Tirmidhi, as-Sunan (5:460#3379)
►Nasai, as-Sunan (8:249#5426)
►Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (4:92)
►Ibn Hibban, as-Sahih (3:95#813)
►Ibn Abi Shaybah, al-Musannaf (6:59#29469)
►Tabarani, al-Mujam-ul-kabir (19:311#701)
►Mindhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:259#2317)

Here is another Hadeeth that explains the one Abu saeed khudri narrated;

Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “No people gather in one of the houses of Allah, reciting the Book of Allah and studying it together, but tranquility will descend upon them, mercy will overshadow them, the angels will surround them and Allah will mention them to those who are with Him.” {sahih Muslim}


Al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) gave a beautiful explanation after juxtaposing these two hadeeths in his Fatawa Noor ‘ala ad-Darb, he said:

“The correct view concerning this matter is that the two hadeeths (reports) refer to those who study the Book of Allah together and recite it. Similarly, with regard to people who are remembering Allah, it is general in meaning and should be understood in the light of other, specific reports that describe the way in which dhikr was done at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his Companions. [size=15pt]It was not known among them that they would remember Allaah, may He be exalted, by reciting dhikr in unison or that they read or recited the Quran in unison[/size]. The phrase “studying it together” indicates that this studying together is done one after another. Either one reads, and when he has finished the next one reads the same text, and so on; or each one of them reads one part, and the next one reads from where the first one stopped. This is the apparent meaning of the hadeeth. With regard to the other hadeeth in which it says that they remembered Allah, we say the same thing: it is general in meaning and should be understood in the light of the texts that speak of the specific way in which dhikr was done at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his Companions. It was not known among them that they would get together and recite dhikr in unison.”

I would like to add that this gathering is a gathering of Knowledge and not gathering to do dhikr(in the way you guys do today), because they STUDIED TOGETHER as the hadith implied. So this “studying together” can be related to the da’wah(preaching) many preachers engage in today, like the way people will gather in a place and listen to a teacher, telling them about the deen, so this is the apparent meaning of these two hadeeth. Whereas the “dhikr” you do is done without the aim of educating people about the deen, what is the essence of gathering if not for educating pople?

Angels search streets/roads for Dhikr gatherings.

عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رضي الله عنه قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم: إِنَّ لِلَّهِ مَلَائِكَةً يَطُوفُونَ فِي الطُّرُقِ، يَلْتَمِسُونَ أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ، فَإِذَا وَجَدُوا قَوْمًا يَذْكُرُونَ اللَّهَ تَنَادَوْا، هَلُمُّوا إِلَى حَاجَتِكُمْ

Translation: Abu Huraira (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “Allah has angels who roam about on roads looking for the love-sick rememberers of Allah. When they find such people, they call out other angels: ‘Come here to your coveted aspiration….’”

References:
► Bukhari, as-Sahih (5:2353#6045)
► Ibn Hibban, as-Sahih (3:139#857)
► Bayhaqi, Shuab-ul-iman (1:399#531)
► Ibn Rajab, Jami-ul-ulum wal-hikam (1:345)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:258#2316)




عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رضي الله عنه، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلي الله عليه وآله وسلم، قَالَ: إِنَّ لِلَّهِ تَبَارَكَ وَتَعَالَى مَلَائِكَةً سَيَّارَةً فُضُلًا يَتَتَبَّعُونَ مَجَالِسَ الذِّكْرِ، فَإِذَا وَجَدُوا مَجْلِسًا فِيهِ ذِكْرٌ، قَعَدُوا مَعَهُمْ

Translation: Abu Huraira (رضی اللہ عنہ) narrates that the Holy Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) said, “Surely there are some angels of Allah (SWT) who conduct patrolling in search of remembrance assemblies (A: Majalis al-Dhikr - this proves Group dhikr gatherings held by Sufis).When they find such an assembly, they join and sit with them…”

References:
► Muslim, as-Sahih (4:2069#2689)
► Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (2:25#7420)
► Ahmad bin Hambal, al-Musnad (2:382#8960)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:259#2316)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (4:244#5523)

You understand a particular hadith in the light of other clear-cut hadith, so I bring to you the hadith of abu hurayrah again;

Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “No people gather in one of the houses of Allah, reciting the Book of Allah and studying it together, but tranquility will descend upon them, mercy will overshadow them, the angels will surround them and Allah will mention them to those who are with Him.”

As we can see this hadith also say the angels are with these people, like shaykh ibn Uthaymeen explained, these people gathered for the PURPOSE OF LEARNING.

Moreoever;

1- The wording ‘Dhikr’ and ‘Tasbeeh’ is mentioned in the texts (Book & Sunnah) unrestrictedly. For an unrestricted wording in the Sharia’ it is not allowed to limit it to a particular number or amount, or to a particular form, except if there is a text from the Sharia’ present regarding it.
As for Dhikr in a collective form with voices in unison, then this has not been mentioned in the Book of Allaah nor in the Sunnah of His Messenger -sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam.

Therefore, what is mentioned in the texts, with the encouragement to perform Dhikr in a plural form does not indicate in itself to making Dhikr collectively, because it is an unrestricted wording, and an unrestricted wording cannot be limited except with a Sharia’ evidence, and there is no proof to restrict making Dhikr in unison in this issue.

2- That the Companions did not understand this form of Dhikr from these texts of the Sharia’, rather they rejected this form, and they dispraised the one who did this form of Dhikr. They regarded this from the innovated matters in the Deen, as has preceded in the story of Umar(I would still provide the story of Umar, Just read on) and Ibn Mas’ood(which you claimed was the only companion that kicked against it) and the understanding of the Companions of the texts of the two revealed sources (the Book & the Sunnah) precedes the understanding of other than them. Rather it is an obligation to follow their understanding, and it is not allowed to abstain from it.

So unfortunately, this hadith cannot be used!

continuation

You want some more brother lexicon?. I got more?.

The first hadith you quoted only traced to one sahaba. His opinion doesn't count since group dhikr was done in the time of the prophet(saw). Every hadith i have been quoting traced back to the prophet (Allah's blessings and peace be upon him)

Now here are some other salaf solih that kicked against this group dhikr thingy;

[Umar bin al-Khattab –Radi Allaahu anhu]

From Abu Uthmaan an-Nahdi who said: ‘A worker for Umar bin al-Khattab wrote to Umar saying that there are a group of people who gather together to make Dua’ for the Muslims and the leader.’

So Umar –Radi Allaahu anhu– wrote to him: ‘Bring them to me with yourself.’

The man came and Umar said to the doorman, prepare the whip. When they entered upon Umar –Radi Allaahu anhu– he descended upon their leader by hitting him with the whip.’


The rightly guided Khalifah Umar bin al-Khattab –Radi Allaahu anhu– rejected that a group gathered to make Dhikr in a form that the Prophet -sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam- did not do, nor did the best of his Companions. To the extent Umar –Radi Allaahu anhu– did not suffice by rejecting what they did by just speaking about it, rather he beat their leader with a whip, and this shows the great concern the Companions had in rejecting innovated Bida’ in the Deen.

[Abu Hanifah an-Nu’man]
Imam Abu Hanifah -Rahimullaah- said:

‘That raising the voice in making Takbeer (saying Allaahu Akbar) is principally a Bida’, because it isDhikr, and the Sunnah regarding Dhikr is with lowering the voice.’

[Yahya bin Ma’een & Ahmad bin Hanbal]

al-Fadl bin Mihraan said: ‘I asked Yahya bin Ma’een and Ahmad bin Hanbal: ‘Indeed we have a group of people who get together and make Dua’, recite Qur’aan (collectively) and remember Allaah Ta’alatogether, how do you view these people?’

As for Yahya bin Ma’een he said: ‘They should read from the Mus’haf (Qur’aan), and make Dua’ after the prayer and remember Allaah individually to themselves.’

al-Fadl bin Muhammad said: ‘I said: ‘I have a brother who takes part with them.’

Yahya said: ‘Forbid him from that.’

I said: ‘He does not accept.’

Yahya said: ‘Admonish him.’

I said: ‘He does not accept. Should I boycott him?’

He said: ‘Yes.’

Then I came to Ahmad and told him similar to what I had said to Yahya and Ahmad also said to me:

‘They should read from the Mus’haf, and remember Allaah Ta’ala individually and seek the hadeeth of the Messenger of Allaah –sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam.’

I said: ‘Should I forbid my brother?’

Ahmad said: ‘Yes.’

I said: ‘And if he does not accept.’

Ahmad said: ‘Of course he will InshAllaah, since indeed this is an innovation, this type of gathering which you describe.’

I said: ‘and if he does not accept should I boycott him?’

Ahmad smiled and remained silent.’

References(arranged according to the text I provided);

1)Collected by Ibn Abi Shaybah (8/558) from Muwayeeyah bin Hisham who said Sufyaan narrated to us from Sa’eed al-Jareeree from Abi Uthmaan, & its chain is Hasan.

2) Badai’ as-Sanai’ by al-Kasani al-Hanafi (2/99)

3) ‘al-Adab ash-Shareeya’ by Ibn Muflih (2/75)



Empiree, i'm still waiting to see an evidence for group dhikr, moreover the hadith i quoted that made you dedicate this epistle to me was not even quoted for the purpose of group dhikr, but for the purpose of the counts that has no isnad to the sunnah, but i had to refute that of group dhikr too cuz group dhikr is another bid'ah!

salaam.

AlBaqir:

So, have you resolved to delete his lectures based on his opponent's recommendations without even hear him out? That will be a great injustice to your nafs and to Jabata himself. You only learn when you see deeply the arguments on both sides. Even if you cannot defeat his arguments, you will be bond to seek counter arguments from his opponents. This will improve your studies and judgments rather than being "fanatic and dogmatic". Islam is a religion of conviction not dogmatism.

# Jabata is my enemy but I always here him out before I counter him. Here's the website dedicated for the download of his lectures:
http://voiceofthesalaf.com/audios/

# I know him and few of his students, and I can confidently says majority of what lexiconkabir copy-pasted from his opponent's website are lies. No doubt Jabata is an ignorant liar as many of his wahabi-salafi compatriots. However you can judge him better by listening to him.

I never said I will be deleting it sir. I will have to create time to listen to it as I don't really have time for now.