RABIUSHILE04:


Bismillaah, alhamdulilah. To keep it brief and concise, bidia involves innovation in the act of worship..using of spoon, TV, radio, phone does not necessarily involve acts of worship. These kinds of excuse that shey the prophet used spoon ni, or did he use microphone etc, these are lame excuses ppl of bidia use to back there proof of engaging in bidia..and any innovated matter leads to jahanam. And allaah knows best.

Thanks.

It Almost caused Problems few years ago in the US. Non-muslims would just fold their arms and watch us destroy ourselves. Read the link below.

http://www.alifta.net/Fatawa/FatawaChapters.aspx?languagename=en&View=Page&PageID=12818&PageNo=1&BookID=7


It very simple. Those who dont think congregational du'a or dhikr is appropriate should simply [size=20pt]STOP[/size] causing trouble trying to false everyone to accept their views. Otherwise, they will create more evil than good. If they are not invited in the group of dhikr they should simply ignore. If they happen to come uninvited, they either remain silent rather than should "bid'a". If they should start shouting, leader of the group have every right to ship them out of the arena faster than federal express bcus they are agent of fitna.

The ulama should first educate their congregation on the sunnah method of Adhkar after salah and gradually inform them that the congregational dua is not compulsory and was not practised at the time of Rasulullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam). Get the congregation to first understand that congregational dua is mubah and not compulsory. Do not condemn the practice without educating the congregation. This will lead to fitna.


Some Have Also Condemned Raising Hands in making Du'a and wiping face with it. I see this being propagated as well. But as always, i am not bulge. The Mufti where I usually pray would tell us there in nothing in the Sunna saying to raise hands. He should rather say he doesnt know. They killing Sunnah every time in the name of Bi'd'a.


Here we have some reports


Raising the hands in dua:


باب ‏ ‏رفع الأيدي في الدعاء ‏ ‏وقال ‏ ‏أبو موسى الأشعري ‏ ‏دعا النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏ثم رفع يديه ورأيت بياض إبطيه

Abu Musa Ashari (RA) narrated that the Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) made a dua, and I saw him raise his hands, until I could see the whiteness of his armpits. (Bukhari)


وقال ‏ ‏ابن عمر ‏ ‏رفع النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏يديه وقال اللهم إني أبرأ إليك مما صنع ‏ ‏خالد

Ibn Umar (RA) narrated that the Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) raised his hands and said, "O Allah! I ask your protection for what Khalid has done". (Bukhari)



قال أبو عبد الله ‏ ‏وقال ‏ ‏الأويسي ‏ ‏حدثني ‏ ‏محمد بن جعفر ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏يحيى بن سعيد ‏ ‏وشريك ‏ ‏سمعا ‏ ‏أنسا ‏ ‏عن النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏رفع يديه حتى رأيت بياض إبطيه ‏

Anas (RA) also narrated that the Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) raised his hands until I saw the whiteness of his armpits. (Bukhari)



Verdict:

Shaykhul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (RA) said, "As of Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) raising his hands in dua, then this has been narrated in so many Ahadeeth which cannot be counted. (Arusi, p212)



Wiping the hands on the face after dua:


Narration of Umar Bin Khattab (RA) in Tirmidhi:
حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏أَبُو مُوسَى مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى ‏ ‏وَإِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ يَعْقُوبَ ‏ ‏وَغَيْرُ وَاحِدٍ ‏ ‏قَالُوا حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏حَمَّادُ بْنُ عِيسَى الْجُهَنِيُّ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏حَنْظَلَةَ بْنِ أَبِي سُفْيَانَ الْجُمَحِيِّ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏سَالِمِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏أَبِيهِ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏عُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ ‏ ‏رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ‏ ‏صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ‏ ‏إِذَا رَفَعَ يَدَيْهِ فِي الدُّعَاءِ لَمْ يَحُطَّهُمَا حَتَّى يَمْسَحَ بِهِمَا وَجْهَهُ ‏

Musaa Muhammad ibn Al-Muthannaa and Ibraahim ibn Ya’qub and more than one stating that Hammaad ibn ‘Eesaa Al-Juhani narrated to us from Hanthalah ibn Abi Sufyaan Al-Jumahiy from Saalim ibn Abdullah from his father (Abdullah ibn Umar) from Umar ibn Al-Khattab (radhiya Allahu ‘Anhu) who said that Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) when raising his hands in du’aa, would not put them down until he had wiped his face with them.



Verdict of Imam Tirmidhi (RA):


قَالَ ‏ ‏مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى ‏ ‏فِي حَدِيثِهِ ‏ ‏لَمْ يَرُدَّهُمَا حَتَّى يَمْسَحَ بِهِمَا وَجْهَهُ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏ ‏أَبُو عِيسَى ‏ ‏هَذَا ‏ ‏حَدِيثٌ صَحِيحٌ غَرِيبٌ ‏ ‏لَا نَعْرِفُهُ إِلَّا مِنْ حَدِيثِ ‏ ‏حَمَّادِ بْنِ عِيسَى ‏ ‏وَقَدْ تَفَرَّدَ بِهِ وَهُوَ قَلِيلُ الْحَدِيثِ وَقَدْ حَدَّثَ عَنْهُ النَّاسُ ‏ ‏وَحَنْظَلَةُ بْنُ أَبِي سُفْيَانَ الْجُمَحِيُّ ‏ ‏ثِقَةٌ وَثَّقَهُ ‏ ‏يَحْيَى بْنُ سَعِيدٍ الْقَطَّانُ

At-Tirmithi continues, “This hadith is Sahih ghareeb1, we do not know it save from the hadith of Hammad ibn ‘Eesaa, and he alone narrates this [from Hanthala]. He has few hadith and the people reported from him. And Hanthalah ibn Abi Sufyaan al-Jumahiy is thiqah (highly trustworthy), and he was declared thiqah by Yahyaa ibn Sa’id Al-Qattaan.”

(1) Meaning narrated by one person - as is the nomenclature of the scholars of hadith



Verdict of Al-Hafidh Imam Ibn Hajr Asqalani (RA) in Bulughul Maram:

Al-Hafidh Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani (RA), Author of the one of the most trusted commentaries of Saheeh Bukhari narrates this Hadeeth in Bulughul Maram and then writes:

وَلَهُ شَوَاهِدُ مِنْهَا:

There are other traditions which support this narration, of which are:

حَدِيثُ اِبْنِ عَبَّاسٍ: عَنْ أَبِي دَاوُدَ . وَمَجْمُوعُهَا يَقْتَضِي أَنَّهُ حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ .

The Hadeeth narrated by Ibn Abbas (RA) related by Abi Dawud and others. Put together, they confirm that it (this Hadeeth) is Hasan.


Verdict of Shawkani (RA) in Nawlul Awtaar:

Imam Shawkani (RA) accepts this narration as Hasan in Mawlul Awtaar


But the mufti who claimed he studied in Saudi Arabia said raising hands and wiping face in du'a is tradition of customs of some muslims and should be avoided. I just dey shake my head as he speaks. I dont challenge anyone where i pray. I simply say to myself "it is your opinion".

It is important to note that du’aa’ is an act of worship, and every act of worship should only be done on the basis of evidence (daleel). The basic principle here is that the hands should be raised when making du’aa’, except when the du’aa’ is part of another act of worship, in which case raising the hands is regarded as an additional action (and should not be done).

Examples of such acts of worship include salaah (prayer), khutbah (sermon), tawaaf (circumambulation of the Ka’bah), sa’ee (running between al-Safaa and Marwah), etc. Salaah includes du’aa’ at the beginning of the prayer, in rukoo’ (bowing), when standing up from rukoo’, in the two sajdahs (prostrations) and in the sitting between the two prostrations – but whoever raises his hands in these places is considered to have committed an act of bid’ah (reprehensible innovation). The same applies to raising the hands when making du’aa’ on the minbar, except in the case of istisqaa’ (praying for rain). And the same applies when making du’aa’ when doing tawaaf or sa’ee.

When there is evidence to show that it is permissible to raise the hands in certain situation, then there is no dispute. Any du’aa’ which has not been narrated in a report and which is not part of another act of worship is regarded as general du’aa’; in this case there is nothing wrong with raising the hands. It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) spoke of a man who raised his hands to the sky and said, “O Lord, O Lord,” whilst his food was haraam, his drink was haraam, his clothing was haraam, he had been nourished with haraam, so how could his du’aa’ be answered?

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah feels shy to let His slave raise his hands to Him and bring them back empty.” – and other ahaadeeth.

https://islamqa.info/en/11543

Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked: What is the ruling on one who raises his hand when the khateeb is praying for the Muslims in the second khutbah? Please quote the evidence, may Allaah reward you.

He replied: Raising the hands is not prescribed in the Friday khutbah or in the Eid khutbah, for the imam or the congregation. Rather what is prescribed is to listen attentively to the khutbah and say Ameen to the du’aa’ quietly without raising one's voice. As for raising the hands, that is not prescribed, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not raise his hands during the Friday khutbah or the Eid khutbah, and when one of the Sahaabah saw one of the governors raising his hands in the Friday khutbah, he criticized him for that and said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not raise (his hands). Yes, if he prays for rain during the Friday khutbah, then he may raise his hands when praying for rain, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to raise his hands in that situation. So if he prays for rain in the Friday khutbah or in the Eid khutbah, then it is prescribed for him to raise his hands, following the example of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). End quote from Majmoo’ al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (12//339).

https://islamqa.info/en/85171

More evidence that LOUD UNISON GROUP DHIKR is not bid'a


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWI3xo_026Y


The sister really knocked it off by bringing up Arafat. Are millions of Hajjis committing bid'a when they shout in the largest group ever takbirat?

The sister who oppose group dhikr said yes it is bid'a. SubhanAllah!

She's saying we are committing bid'a every year at the Holiest site. Really funny

The 2 Eids are absolute dalil of group unison dhikr. If it is valid those times, it is valid every time. Anything else is opinion of that person.

Keep deceiving yourself, those that will listen will listen.

Everything brought up by the sister that supported group dhikr were the same thing you brought, which I've tackled, plus i am still asking, is QAIS also weak?

The narration about Umar whipping the sick people?

The narration of ibn Abbas?

I really don't wanna go further on this.

And the hadith she brought saying a certain sahabi did loud takbeer for hajj does not mean anything, the narration didnt say there were doing that in a group, just a certain sahabi.


I still stand on my views, BRING A PROOF THAT TAKBEER IN UNISON FOR EID(or similar cases) WAS DONE BY THE SAHABAS.

We are not going to do it just for the sake that it is common, being common is not a proof.

.

WHICH ONE YOU DEY?

1. Buhari said he would pay unemployed citizens. You clapped. He said he cannot pay unemployed citizens. You also clapped.

2. Buhari said he does not know anything called subsidy. You clapped. He later paid subsidy. You clapped again.

3. When he removed all road blocks. You clapped.
When he reinstalled road blocks. You also clapped.

4. When he relocated military command to North East. You clapped. He returned military command back. You clapped.

5. He said he would never devalue the Naira. You clapped. He devalued the Naira. You clapped.

6. He said he would not have the office of
the first lady. You clapped. He has the office of the first lady. You clapped.

7. He said he will make N1 equals to $1. You clapped. $1 is officially equal N420. You are still
clapping.

8.He said he will make petrol price to N40, you clapped, now petrol price is N145, you clapped.

9. He said he will end Boko Haram insurgencies 3 months into his regime, you clapped with joy. He later said in it will be pure in December when the rains stop. You clapped hopefully. Today, Boko Haram is still killing people. You are there, still clapping.

10. He said he would turn all presidential jets
to national carrier. You clapped. Today, he and his family are cruising on all presidential jets. You are clapping.

11. He said he would build one new refinery
each year. You clapped. Its getting to two years, no refinery has been built. You are still clapping.

Isn't it glaring that there is a very big problem with this government and you're their mumu! Olodo rabata! That's who you are! You've been caught by their broom stick voodoo. If this isn't sorcery wat else could it be?
BE DELIVERED IN Jesus NAME! AMEEEN!

Empiree:
^

You see the hadith he quoted up there about Ibn Mos'ud [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 802], it doesn't take rocket science to figure out it is "group dhikr" when you go practical. It is easy to read texts and condemn what you want to condemn. But if you go practical, it is clear.

Congregational

Group

Assembly

Gathering


....are all the same meaning. Let's apply the hadith practically. Forget about "he said, she said" for a moment.


Say for instance, lexicon is Imam and the rest of us are behind him. He finishes salat by saying Salam alaikum waramotullah.

Then, everyone of us starts reciting loud dhikr lailaha ila Allah. Theoretically, we are reciting it individually but in practical sense, it's already unison.

Let's analyse what i just said so we know it is already group dhikr. First, with lexicon as imam and we behind him, we already formed a group of assembly.

Second, we all doing dhikr (individually) as intended

Third, it is technically unison.

So "group dhikr" is already formed. There is no way bunch of muslims reciting dhikr individually and loud and saying the same thing without making it unison or almost. This is how Gathering of dhikr is borne. There is nothing "bid'atic" about it. But if you stick to texts, you will always easily find what is bid'a.

Just try to implement the hadith. You will get my point. That's all

Well said. Other practical ways. Let say, after the salat as you mentioned above, the rest of the congregation start saying' Allahu-akbar x3" subahana-Allah, wallhamdullillah, wallaihailalah, wa-Allahu akbar, wallahaulawalakuwata-ilabilah" differently, are they not saying the same thing? Is it not the same dua?

Allahu-allam

GossipHeart:
WHICH ONE YOU DEY?

1. Buhari said he would pay unemployed citizens. You clapped. He said he cannot pay unemployed citizens. You also clapped.

2. Buhari said he does not know anything called subsidy. You clapped. He later paid subsidy. You clapped again.

3. When he removed all road blocks. You clapped.
When he reinstalled road blocks. You also clapped.

4. When he relocated military command to North East. You clapped. He returned military command back. You clapped.

5. He said he would never devalue the Naira. You clapped. He devalued the Naira. You clapped.

6. He said he would not have the office of
the first lady. You clapped. He has the office of the first lady. You clapped.

7. He said he will make N1 equals to $1. You clapped. $1 is officially equal N420. You are still
clapping.

8.He said he will make petrol price to N40, you clapped, now petrol price is N145, you clapped.

9. He said he will end Boko Haram insurgencies 3 months into his regime, you clapped with joy. He later said in it will be pure in December when the rains stop. You clapped hopefully. Today, Boko Haram is still killing people. You are there, still clapping.

10. He said he would turn all presidential jets
to national carrier. You clapped. Today, he and his family are cruising on all presidential jets. You are clapping.

11. He said he would build one new refinery
each year. You clapped. Its getting to two years, no refinery has been built. You are still clapping.

Isn't it glaring that there is a very big problem with this government and you're their mumu! Olodo rabata! That's who you are! You've been caught by their broom stick voodoo. If this isn't sorcery wat else could it be?
BE DELIVERED IN Jesus NAME! AMEEEN!

You miss road?

Empiree:
It is Sign of the time. We have some people now claiming to know SUNNAH in this Last Age and they think those men of old were silly. You raised good point. How do we children back then know the dua if not THE GATHERINGS/ASSEMBLIES OF DHIKR?

You can see bcus of abandoning this practices is the reason we now have thugs everywhere. They have no knowledge of the deen but they scream "Qur'an and SUNNAH" everywhere. There are documented evidences of group dhikr. As you rightly said, even if prophet did not do it, it is common sense for us to do it. I learned many stuff and chapters of Quran through group dua.

They now claiming it is bid'a to gather and make du'a. This is fabrication. It is not just in the North or Nigeria. This is the way it is in the Western world too except few. Once Imam says "salaam alaikum". They all stand up and leave. They dont even make private dhikr either. This is fading the ESSENCE of islam. Bro, knowledge is going away. I am not surprised at all. Read this thread when you get the chance and follow if you want.

https://www.nairaland.com/3301071/muhammad-alee-jabata-not-among#48710714

They now campaigning against group du'a, group dhikr etc. How would children learn if not by that?. Group dhikr is SUNNAH. Those who condemn it are Alhu Bid'a pretending to be people of SUNNAH. What they dont understand is it is not befitting for the prophet(SAW) to do what we would do. They trying to compare themselves with the prophet. I thank God you spotted this madness. Because people dont do dhikr anymore, they have lots of time doing nothing. So shaytan took over. If they see any mosque doing group dhikr now, they tag it "alhu bid'a" (people of innovation)

Alhamdulillah, 2day I've seen ur true face and I now knw wat type u re. Zanantuka Musa fa wajaddtuka Fir'aun.

It is not allowed.
Dua is to be learnt as we are learning Qur'an which is allowed to be done in congregation. The believe of some people that we can learn by making dua together is not true. Point 1. U will never understand the meaning of what u are doing though u may know how to pronounce it, 2. U will find it difficult to do when u are alone, 3. U will never take it serious etc

As a brother said bidia means introducing something into the religion..May Allah see us through and May Allah put us on the right track

whoever says it is allowed, let him/her bring an evidence that the Prophet did that or that the companions did dhikr in unison after solaah

remember, all acts of worship are forbidden except that one we could establish an evidence for, in the Quran and/or sunnah as practised by the righteous predecessors(the companions)
never will our evidence for establishing acts of worship in this religion of al-islaam be that 'that was the way our forefathers did it, that's the common practise amongst the people or that its being done in Saudi in a similar way

shaykh al uthaymeen (رحمه الله) said in his majmu'u fataawa that :
الحق ما قام عليه الدليل و ليس الحق فيما عمله الناس
meaning: the truth is what we can establish evidence (s) for in the Quran and sunnah and never will the truth be the practise of the people (even if majority)
baarakallaahu feekum Wa zaadakumu Llaahu fee kulli khayr

Bnladan:

Alhamdulillah, 2day I've seen ur true face and I now knw wat type u re. Zanantuka Musa fa wajaddtuka Fir'aun.

Lol, he claims he was once a salafi but dumped it after four years.

adedokunn1:
whoever says it is allowed, let him/her bring an evidence that the Prophet did that or that the companions did dhikr in unison after solaah

remember, all acts of worship are forbidden except that one we could establish an evidence for, in the Quran and/or sunnah as practised by the righteous predecessors(the companions)
never will our evidence for establishing acts of worship in this religion of al-islaam be that 'that was the way our forefathers did it, that's the common practise amongst the people or that its being done in Saudi in a similar way

shaykh al uthaymeen (رحمه الله) said in his majmu'u fataawa that :
الحق ما قام عليه الدليل و ليس الحق فيما عمله الناس
meaning: the truth is what we can establish evidence (s) for in the Quran and sunnah and never will the truth be the practise of the people (even if majority)
baarakallaahu feekum Wa zaadakumu Llaahu fee kulli khayr

Lol, don't let Empiree see you quoting ibn uthaymeen, before he tags you a blind follower of a Saudi shaykh.

Edemaya:
May Allah increase you all in knowledge (contributors). Please I need to understand this also so I knw if to continue with it or not.

What is the stance of using a car as a means of transportation and the use of phone, watching of TV, listening to radio, cos we all knw it doesn't exist then, and it wasn't practised by the prophet, can we call that Bid'a too?

Cc; Empire, Lexiconkabir, Rabiushile04 and others.

Non of those are Ibaadah.
You don't get rewarded for using or not using them.
So that question doesn't apply.

Shafiiimran99:
It is not allowed.
Dua is to be learnt as we are learning Qur'an which is allowed to be done in congregation. The believe of some people that we can learn by making dua together is not true. Point 1. U will never understand the meaning of what u are doing though u may know how to pronounce it, 2. U will find it difficult to do when u are alone, 3. U will never take it serious etc

Jazaakallahu khayran.
You nailed it.

Shafiiimran99:
It is not allowed.
Dua is to be learnt as we are learning Qur'an which is allowed to be done in congregation. The believe of some people that we can learn by making dua together is not true. Point 1. U will never understand the meaning of what u are doing though u may know how to pronounce it, 2. U will find it difficult to do when u are alone, 3. U will never take it serious etc

you are right my brother. i which i have power i would have contribute my knowledge on this topic. Coming from the north to south, i could see that it is prevalent here. No body here can bring any sunnah of the prophet engaging in congregational supplication after salat. Because it does not exist. It is an innovation. They now make it look as if it is a part of the prayer in the mosque.

Masha Allaah its nice seeing people upon the sunnah!

[size=18pt]ALLAAHU AKBAR!!![/size]

This shows that no matter how hard people of innovation try to tackle the truth, the truth will always conquer the lies of the innovators.

jelel6:
you are right my brother. i which i have power i would have contribute my knowledge on this topic. Coming from the north to south, i could see that it is prevalent here. No body here can bring any sunnah of the prophet engaging in congregational supplication after salat. Because it does not exist. It is an innovation. They now make it look as if it is a part of the prayer in the mosque.

Brother you can start by approaching the imam of the mosque.

We have examined all the issues raised by everyone here by our group here in my place, especially as it relates to Nasfat and other groups like that. After we examined many evidence, our conclusion was that it is acceptable to make dua in congregation if we follow certain rules:
1. The group dua in which every participates reciting dua together should not be done regularly. It can be done spontaneously and not regularly planned. Otherwise it will become another form of regular worship like salah. We based our understanding on the issue tarawih which the prophet started but then stopped because he was afraid Allah may make it far'd if it was continued like that. Although Umar bin Khatab continued after the prophet by calling it good bid'ah, but he would never have recommended it had the prophet not done it at all. Umar knew nothing can be made far'down after the prophet had died and Allah had completed Islam including mode of ibaadat. But because he saw the prophet doing it at all, he believed there must be some spiritual benefit in that.
2. The congregational dua should not be made in chorus if we have to do it regularly. Personal communication with Allah in dua is far better than in congregational dua. That's why the prophet encouraged naflah to be done at home individually than to be done in masjid, and not in congregation. The eid prayers have higher levels of worship that naflah. That's why they are held in congregation, they are almost compulsory prayers.
3. Congregational dua can be done if they are for the purpose of teaching Muslims how to make dua. This is just like having Quranic classes together. The purpose in most cases is for knowledge gardering.
I can teach my children dua by doing it with them everyday until they learn it. Then I will encourage them to do it separately because every human being has different requsets from Allah.
I personally feel that the danger of making dikr together on regular basis is that if we miss it, we may be called to account for missing it by Allah as we have made it compulsory on ourselves, just like we will account for missing regular salaat but we will not account for not making dua. If we decide to make dua regular in congregation like salaat, we might be called to account if we miss it. Walaahu aalam.

People dont use their brain anymore. This is not about "our forefather did it"

Here is a little distinction btw congregational dua and congregational dhikr.

Let me bring out the difference a little bit.

Congregational dua, what that means is after imam finishes salat and he makes dua and people say "Ameena". That's my definition of congregational dua. Bring me evidence where this is haram.



Congregational dhikr. here is no need to argue this anymore. unless you want to keep deceiving yourself by copying stuff on the internet and claim that's knowledge. Prove of group unison dhikr is evident at the beginning of Eid and on Arafat. If you say this is not unison dhikr and it is bid'a and only you are correct. In Sha Allah, that's your understanding. Stick to it but please stop calling people bid'a bcus there four school of thoughts but you only stick to one which is Hanbal.

You people are so funny. What you know now was learned bcus you heard people reciting them PRACTICALLY. I am so sure that most of us if not all were not reading text to learn what you know now. You see people did it and you did it. I read a brother up there saying is it forbidden to make congregational dua. Well, that's some serious allegation because from what i have been reading, no scholars said it is forbidden. They said it could only disturb others who come to pray late. some scholars said it (congregational dua) should be for the purpose of teaching new people and children. Once everyone learns the phrase there is no need for it. None of these scholars said it is forbidden. So you made up your own brother. If Allah and his messager did not say something is forbidden, you have no rigt to say so. Provide me evidence that making congregational dua is forbidden please.

Those men taught you islam, now you grow wing and condemned them bcus you got silly texts from from foreign land. You could have been Kafir by now if not for Allah and those men and women around you when you were baby. Keep it up. And no one says it is mandatory to do congregational dua or dhikr. It is mutahab. You are free to leave.

You compare yourself to Saudi. the people who are rich... their children are rich from birth. Prayer of nabi Ibrahmim(as) is upon them not bcus they have knowledge . That's the benefit they have. But you are poor in Nigeria and need Allah's help seriously and you condemning dua in congregation when no one is even doing it privately either. Stop being lazy.

Practice Islam . Practice what you read. I wont bother myself until you practice every hadith you read. Anything else is a waste of time. Stop calling people bid'a. respect others view.

lexiconkabir:


Brother you can start by approaching the imam of the mosque.

am in a tight corner. Really. As the imam taught of quran. They are so serious invested in it that moving away from it is almost impossible.

drlateef:
We have examined all the issues raised by everyone here by our group here in my place, especially as it relates to Nasfat and other groups like that. After we examined many evidence, our conclusion was that it is acceptable to make dua in congregation if we follow certain rules:
1. The group dua in which every participates reciting dua together should not be done regularly. It can be done spontaneously and not regularly planned. Otherwise it will become another form of regular worship like salah. We based our understanding on the issue tarawih which the prophet started but then stopped because he was afraid Allah may make it far'd if it was continued like that. Although Umar bin Khatab continued after the prophet by calling it good bid'ah, but he would never have recommended it had the prophet not done it at all. Umar knew nothing can be made far'down after the prophet had died and Allah had completed Islam including mode of ibaadat. But because he saw the prophet doing it at all, he believed there must be some spiritual benefit in that.
2. The congregational dua should not be made in chorus if we have to do it regularly. Personal communication with Allah in dua is far better than in congregational dua. That's why the prophet encouraged naflah to be done at home individually than to be done in masjid, and not in congregation. The eid prayers have higher levels of worship that naflah. That's why they are held in congregation, they are almost compulsory prayers.
3. Congregational dua can be done if they are for the purpose of teaching Muslims how to make dua. This is just like having Quranic classes together. The purpose in most cases is for knowledge gardering.
I can teach my children dua by doing it with them everyday until they learn it. Then I will encourage them to do it separately because every human being has different requsets from Allah.
I personally feel that the danger of making dikr together on regular basis is that if we miss it, we may be called to account for missing it by Allah as we have made it compulsory on ourselves, just like we will account for missing regular salaat but we will not account for not making dua. If we decide to make dua regular in congregation like salaat, we might be called to account if we miss it. Walaahu aalam.

Thank You. They dont understand. They are ungrateful people. Their fathers and shuyuk taught them when they were baby but now they are men and women and biting fingers that fed them. UNGRATEFUL people.

Never for once I said group dhikr or dua as major worship. Never for one i said if i miss it it is a sin . It is absolutely mustahab. This people dont understand religion. They cant teach me anything. I simply said it is allowed. Yes, Tarawi is another evidence. Lazy people dont know religion. They do follow behind Arabs. Maybe they need to read ahadith about arab where RosulluAllah (SAW) described them as lazy people who are after taking care of animal but forget religion. They need to stop copying text online. Thats what they consider KNOWLEDGE.

This is exactly what happened in the time of Shiek Adam ilory,(RA) Sheik Ashile(RA) etc. They confronted Saudi and their Nigerian counterparts. They told them to stop waging war on dhikr

Empiree:
^

You see the hadith he quoted up there about Ibn Mos'ud [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 802], it doesn't take rocket science to figure out it is "group dhikr" when you go practical. It is easy to read texts and condemn what you want to condemn. But if you go practical, it is clear.

Congregational

Group

Assembly

Gathering


....are all the same meaning. Let's apply the hadith practically. Forget about "he said, she said" for a moment.


Say for instance, lexicon is Imam and the rest of us are behind him. He finishes salat by saying Salam alaikum waramotullah.

Then, everyone of us starts reciting loud dhikr lailaha ila Allah. Theoretically, we are reciting it individually but in practical sense, it's already unison.

Let's analyse what i just said so we know it is already group dhikr. First, with lexicon as imam and we behind him, we already formed a group of assembly.

Second, we all doing dhikr (individually) as intended

Third, it is technically unison.

So "group dhikr" is already formed. There is no way bunch of muslims reciting dhikr individually and loud and saying the same thing without making it unison or almost. This is how Gathering of dhikr is borne. There is nothing "bid'atic" about it. But if you stick to texts, you will always easily find what is bid'a.

Just try to implement the hadith. You will get my point. That's all

The way we should look at it is this. We should answer this question. How did the Prophet do it?

The answer is each Muslim do his or her prayer individually. So, let us continue that way. Any way different from the way the Prophet did it is an innovation.

Simple

[quote author=lexiconkabir post=48871670]

if you mean in group, saying dhikr in one voice and in unison, then this is bid'ah, but if you mean the normal dhikr where Miuhammad(pbuh) asked us to do istighfar 3x, Allaahuma anta salaam wa minka salaam tabarakta ya dhal jalaal wal ikram and so on, note that this is not done in one voice and in unison, rather individually, you are also permitted to do it loudly, as we see in this hadeeth;

Ibn 'Abbas told me, "In the lifetime of the Prophet it was the custom to celebrate Allah's praises aloud after the compulsory congregational prayers." Ibn 'Abbas further said, "When I heard the Dhikr, I would learn that the compulsory congregational prayer had ended." [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 802]

You have said all, tho some of are beleivers, some are followers, and many are not one of the above atall. Otherwise, why should someone do what befits him but didn't befit Muhammad (SAW), didn't he ask 3times as in if he has perfected the msg he was sent with?

[quote author=waShine post=49217143][/quote]
You quoted this hadith. Do you do it?.


Ibn 'Abbas told me, "In the lifetime of the Prophet it was the custom to celebrate Allah's praises aloud after the compulsory congregational prayers." Ibn 'Abbas further said, "When I heard the Dhikr, I would learn that the compulsory congregational prayer had ended." [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 802]


I asked brother that supports your idea the same question but he couldn't answer. Does the hadith for indicated group dhirk is forbidden?. When Ibn Abass (ra) heard loud dhikr, was it only one voice he heard?

mfm04622:


The way we should look at it is this. We should answer this question. How did the Prophet do it?

The answer is each Muslim do his or her prayer individually. So, let us continue that way. Any way different from the way the Prophet did it is an innovation.

Simple

Okay, good. Money is mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Since you are upon "Qur'an and Sunnah" and anything outside of that is bid'ah or haram. Now, Money given by Allah (swt) and His messanger(saw) is Dinar and Durham (i:e Gold dinar & Silver Durham). Why are you spending paper money?.

If you want evidence for what i just said, i will provide it at your request. But do me a favor, dont tell me that's "old money" or it is worldly matter.

HAH:
Salamu Alaikum,

This days I fine it very disheartening how a lot of mosque don't do any congregational dua after salat.

While growing up duas are done together and as children that was how we learned how to make duas after prayers and I wonder how our children will have a practical knowledge of what to do and say after salat with the present practice of no congregessional dua, further some ulama have said that when duas are made together Allah may accept it because of a particular person that was part of it expecially when children who are considered sinless in Islam are also part of the dua.

This days especially here in the north most mosque that are ahlul sunna will not do any dua even in trying times like now the excuse given is it was never done by the prophet.


My question is what is wrong in doing something seemingly good even if not done by the prophet, moreover there are a lot of things done today that the prophet has not done, things like using, microphone, carpet, ac, fan etc[color=#770077][/color]

NB this thread is for our education please no insults.

wa'aleikumus salaam warahmatullah.
When the excuse that the Prophet never did it during his time was given,you could have asked how children of that time learnt those prayers and duás. Then on the use of microphone fan and the likes,those are not genuine excuses to bring up new things in the deen because they are things we use but do not change what we do. Microphone will only make your voice travel farther but will not change your message, the carpet or rug can only increase your comfort but does not change your number of rakah or degree of bendings for rukus and sujuuds.
just the way I understand it but Allahu knows best