Oya no be what some non igbo kept saying on this forum. I recalled when this argument was going on and that igbo hating bastard, tonyebarcainsta, and the rest of his rest of "we SS" crew kept screaming how etche are not igbo and do not see themselves as igbo. When I got involved in the argument considering the two igbo groups I know very well in that river state are both Etche and Oyigbo.....I was attacked and called a liar by the yolobas, hausa/fulani and the tonyebarcainsta clown.

Oya it's been almost a year since that argument and Chineke don finally VINDICATED me

I came onto an argument between ETCHE about their origins few days ago on FB. This is straight from their people Official FB gathering page. As you can notice, only one ( with maybe one or two supporting him) were the "I'm not igbo" denial while the rest of them took that one man to the cleaners till the point, he started calling only himself "bona-fide" and the rest of them are "sellouts" . His own ppl caricature of him and even some started calling him "ikwerre"

I brought this argument here because I've been VINDICATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I tell una so no be so. I knew etche like I know oyigbo. I lived among this people before and they reminded me so much of Asaba. Yes they have deniers but their percentage is extremely low just like Asaba. Infact, they are conceited as f2k about their Igbo heritage cause for some reason in their deluded head, growing up they used to tell me and my sibs that they are the closest to SE igbo than other igbos.

On that argument, it was literally Etche vs. Etche. The only other that comment was an igbodo guy...whom I deliberately made sure not to copy his argument with the Idaho guy (anyone wants a copy of that argument as well..let me know cause that one was hilarious as well...the igbodo guy also took him to the cleaners)

For those that do not know what igbodo is. Igbodo is in delta state. It's part of the ika community and unlike agbor, the igbodo also rarely have a igbo denier mess you see in Agbor people. Infact whenever SE attacks ika especially on this forum..I smh at una. In as much as I do not connect with ika as much especially since they starting to try and spread rumors that their Igbo denier stupidity is also found among us in other for oshmili/anoicha to get hated and attacked verbally like they do, I no trust am nor vibe with am...they are misery that wants company. Anyway, despite not all that...one thing that I do know is not all ika are igbo denier.
Infact I bet you that none of you SE is aware that the two igwes working hard to bring unity between igbo clams are Asagba of Asaba and Obi of Owa.
For those that do not know what Owa is...it's an ika community.

I keep telling SE this...you Nigga needs to STOP listening to the yolobas and hausa/fulani people. Those niggah DO NOT LIKE YOU and trying desperately to create aniomsity between una and you siblings and you niggas keep giving them space to do so. Continue to listen those clowns and all you are doing is creating problems with your families.
The Nnamdi Kanu's that you Nigga join the Yoloba and hausa/fulani to insult/mock was actually unifying Igbos incase una do not know. During the IPOB PH protest, many of the people who protested were ETCHE, followed by Egbema and Oyigbo. According to my cousin, the leader of the ipob group at that side is an etche man. Not only that, aka ikenga that uses to be specifically an ika political group whom denied igbo fpr lord knows how long now have all of a sudden going around calling themselves "igbo think tank group" and even recently made a SE their president ( a task they never done. EVER!!! before ). The reason they tried to shut him up is because that kanu guy was demolishing their divide and rule one by one and lo behold some deluded SE have joined the bandwagon to try and shut him up. I smfh at you.

Continue to listen to them....the reason they try to create this aniomsity is because igbo contribute the most in that country. Incase una do not know Etche, Egbema and Oyigbo are all oil producing areas of River state and all producing some of the largest. You then include imo, Abia and anambra plus anioma. You've done more that this country than that shithole has done for una yet you lots continue to listen to the clowns that's on your necks and ignore your brethren from that side letting una know to Stop listening to am..

Anyway, make I stop. Read and weep...I've been VINDICATED.

Btw: Abagworo is also NOT una friend. That's another person you lots should ignore

More

Since NL is acting up and giving me problems in posting this image. I'll repost itb somewhere else and transfer it here

Well that's nothe workinh

op, how does this stop people from naming their dog Buhari

Thanks again OP for another eye opener. You never disappoint. It only takes one seed of truth to destroy mountains of lies.

Hey MOD, why was this thread quickly moved to culture section?

Emancipation:
Hey MOD, why was this thread quickly moved to culture section?

So they moved this to culture section to kill it. It's that tribalistic Mynd clown that did it.

Odumchi biko move this back to the politics section cause that's where it truly belongs. Thank you

M

K

H

M

oboy you get time o. no mind those inconsequential bastards. look at tonyes life on nairaland. he has lost his fan base and is no longer popular.he bit the finger that fed him also look at his ethnic group fighting for relevance through militancy. we ighos are a majority group and we know ourselves irrespective of where we are and those of us in the ND will continue to.be the majority in SS. who know ijaw? there chapter has been closed with jonathan, this is like the tivs trying to control and manipulate the north when hausa/fulani dey

Ikechukwu thank you very much. I have an Etche guy here in my office, he considers himself igbo before anything. This is why Nigeria fails to progress; she is bedeviled with too many lies.

@op, how can a pure blooded Etche man deny his Igbo heritage? Impossicant!
This is a non issue. People are starving in Nigeria.

Pls dz benin wannabes abeg change una name to benin names pls


Etche v 4 local govt 2 in imo and 2 in rivers

Do d maths

Dia is no ibos in S.S

Pchidexy:
@op, how can a pure blooded Etche man deny his Igbo heritage? Impossicant!

This is a non issue. People are starving in Nigeria.

D are not lyk ikwerre

Anybody who has common sense choses to tell him/herself the truth will laugh at most of these arguments linking obvious Igbo groups such as Etche to anything but Igbo. The only thing that differentiates these groups from Igbo is simply politics. So, i subscribe to one of the comments that Etche is Igbo linguistically, culturally, Socially but not politically. Mind you, political inclination can change overtime.

It is immoral and criminal to link groups like Etche, Egbema, Aniocha and Oshimilli to anything but Igbo. Some of these people have been lied to and it beats me how a grown azz man can open his mouth and talk the kind of rubbish that people like IRONDI on that group was saying. If the person is not idiotic then he/she has to be intentionally playing to the gallery and these people end up influencing unsuspecting people. I experienced this first hand when i visited Okwuzi, Mgbede, Agah and Ibuocha communities in Egbema part of Rivers state and it's funny how you will hear the "We are not Igbo" slogan from some people in these places but as soon as you cross into the neigbouring villages of Abacheke, Mmahu, Obiakpu and Obeakpu in the same Egbema but this time in the Imo side, the song changes to "We are Igbos". This goes to chow that there was a deliberate attempt to convince these people that they are not Igbos and some of them have fallen for it.

cc: Abagworo Hopeathand

Afam4eva:
Anybody who has common sense choses to tell him/herself the truth will laugh at most of these arguments linking obvious Igbo groups such as Etche to anything but Igbo. The only thing that differentiates these groups from Igbo is simply politics. So, i subscribe to one of the comments that Etche is Igbo linguistically, culturally, Socially but not politically. Mind you, political inclination can change overtime.

It is immoral and criminal to link groups like Etche, Egbema, Aniocha and Oshimilli to anything but Igbo. Some of these people have been lied to and it beats me how a grown azz man can open his mouth and talk the kind of rubbish that people like IRONDI on that group was saying. If the person is not idiotic then he/she has to be intentionally playing to the gallery and these people end up influencing unsuspecting people. I experienced this first hand when i visited Okwuzi, Mgbede, Agah and Ibuocha communities in Egbema part of Rivers state and it's funny how you will hear the "We are not Igbo" slogan from some people in these places but as soon as you cross into the neigbouring villages of Abacheke, Mmahu, Obiakpu and Obeakpu in the same Egbema but this time in the Imo side, the song changes to "We are Igbos". This goes to chow that there was a deliberate attempt to convince these people that they are not Igbos and some of them have fallen for it.

Well said, in my opinion, the Etche people can conveniently be referred to as Igbos, speaking from the areas in Etche i visited. Same to for Asa/Ndoki people of Oyigbo.

But it is pertinent to note that some certain ethnicities have overtime evolved a separate identity either by means of political realignment or some special circumstances. From observation, they have come to accept wholeheartedly their identity and have put it forward.

It is expected that the SE Igbos accept the reality of the situation
and work with them towards better brotherliness and overall progress.

No need dwelling in the past. Life goes on.

HopeAtHand:


Well said, in my opinion, the Etche people can conveniently be referred to as Igbos, speaking from the areas in Etche i visited. Same to for Asa/Ndoki people of Oyigbo.

But it is pertinent to note that some certain ethnicities have overtime evolved a separate identity either by means of political realignment or some special circumstances. From observation, they have come to accept wholeheartedly their identity and have put it forward.

It is expected that the SE Igbos accept the reality of the situation
and work with them towards better brotherliness and overall progress.

No need dwelling in the past. Life goes on.

Well said. If you noticed, i didn't mention Ikwerre, Ika or Ukwuani for the same reasons you stated above. Not because i feel these groups cannot be Igbos but like you alluded to, they have either evolved overtime or have a totally different ideology from Igbos and only a sprinkle of people from these ethnic groups can accept being Igbos but an overwhelming majority of them especially when represented by groups such as Ogbakor Ikwerre see themselves as a different ethnic group from Igbos. But that's should not in anyway take away the brotherhood that exists between these groups and Igbos even if it's just cultural or linguistic.

Afam4eva:

Well said. If you noticed, i didn't mention Ikwerre, Ika or Ukwuani for the same reasons you stated above. Not because i feel these groups cannot be Igbos but like you alluded to, they have either evolved overtime or have a totally different ideology from Igbos and only a sprinkle of people from these ethnic groups can accept being Igbos but an overwhelming majority of them especially when represented by groups such as Ogbakor Ikwerre see themselves as a different ethnic group from Igbos. But that's should not in anyway take away the brotherhood that exists between these groups and Igbos even if it's just cultural or linguistic.

@bolded, on saturday evening, i was hanging out with a group of friends, they were all Igbo. So in the course of discussion one of the guys who didnt know me well asked where in Igbo i come from, i replied i was Ikwerre and the said 'oh you people who deny Igbos'. I wasnt in the mood for any sort of Ikwerre/Igbo banter so i let it slide.

In essence, most Igbos have not and may not come to terms with the reality of the separate existence of brotherly ethnicities. The reason im saying this is this present generation of Igbos have only learned that Ikwerres some decades ago were believed to be Igbos, they did not witness anything, they only read it in history books and have decided to continue to refer to Ikwerres and other Igboid ethnicities as Igbos wether those ethnicities liked it or not.

Now, one wonders the argument that can be made for a people who cannot accept the decision of others.

Nice topic.

But who took this thread to cultural section?
This is more like a political discussion as one of the comments on the Facebook page accurately pinpointed.

Etche is Culturally Igbo, Etched is Linguistically Igbo, but Etche is not politically Igbo.

This is a political discussion, and should be moved to political section for appropriate breakdown and steps to politically re align Etche to Igbo analysed.

In essence, most Igbos have not and may not come to terms with the reality of the separate existence of brotherly ethnicities. The reason im saying this is this present generation of Igbos have only learned that Ikwerres some decades ago were believed to be Igbos, they did not witness anything, they only read it in history books and have decided to continue to refer to Ikwerres and other Igboid ethnicities as Igbos wether those ethnicities liked it or not.


Trash!

Are you saying that the history books are wrong, that all documented colonial and post colonial evidence of the Fact that Ikwerres like neighboring groups such as Asa, NdokiOgba, Anioma, Ngwa, Oratta, Etche were classified as Ibos and that Ikwerre elders never saw any problem with that then, as they saw themselves as one people with these neighbors, should all be discarded and erased from our memories.

That we should not continue reminding Ikwerres people that their Igbo denial started right after the civil war and never before?

You must be joking.

I don't think any Igbo has any problem with Ikwerres Igbo denial, what we have problem with is the distortion of shared history and concoction of absurd falsehoods as history and the need to paint the Igbo as the villain in other to sell these new absurd histories as championed by Elechi Amadi.

This is the Igbo point of view that we will never change.

And Yes, Ikwerres Will always be rightly reminded by Ndiigbo and even by other Nigerians when it serves their purpose, that Ikwerre Igbo denial started Post civil war.

[b] If only Ikwerre Igbo denial can stand on its own, if only Ikwerres can boldly come out and say:

" See it's true we previously , wholeheartedly and without compulsion or subjugation were Igbos and truly accepted the Igbo tag, we nolonger wish to be Igbos from 1970 onwards due to some events we wish not to dabble into now, It is our personal and group conviction that the interests of our people, which includes our political and Economic interests, are currently better protected in a distinct new ethnic group away from our parent Igbo body. We wish that our Igbo brothers accept and respect this our new conviction and stance."


There won't be problems. The problem is that Ikwerre see it as a necessity to doctor Igbo history, which they were part of, and to assassinate the Igbo image, as a means of establishing their new found ethnic group.

And this is why there will continue to be this argument over and over again, with all the animosity attached and even hatred creeping in from both camps.

I had highlighted some of the bold face lies and falsehoods upon which current Ikwerre identity denial were built upon, which the average Igbo man would always refute and tear to shreds violently.

And because the very foundation of Ikwerre quest for distinct identity is built on those lies, it becomes near impossible for an Igbo to refute those lies, without it appearing like he is attacking the Ikwerre quest for distinct identity. This creates an illusion of the Igbo forcing Ikwerre to be part of the Igbo nation in the eyes of the ignorant onlookers not knowledgeable on the underlying issues in discourse. When in actuality, the average Igbo don't give a rat ass over whatever identity the Ikwerre had chosen for himself,as such matters are trivial and inconsequential in the larger scheme of things for the Igbo nation. [/b]

HopeAtHand:


@bolded, on saturday evening, i was hanging out with a group of friends, they were all Igbo. So in the course of discussion one of the guys who didnt know me well asked where in Igbo i come from, i replied i was Ikwerre and the said 'oh you people who deny Igbos'. I wasnt in the mood for any sort of Ikwerre/Igbo banter so i let it slide.

In essence, most Igbos have not and may not come to terms with the reality of the separate existence of brotherly ethnicities. The reason im saying this is this present generation of Igbos have only learned that Ikwerres some decades ago were believed to be Igbos, they did not witness anything, they only read it in history books and have decided to continue to refer to Ikwerres and other Igboid ethnicities as Igbos wether those ethnicities liked it or not.

Now, one wonders the argument that can be made for a people who cannot accept the decision of others.

The argument is just as hard as someone else seeing Ikwerre as Igbo. It's a two way thing and you don't expect everyone to understand. If someone from the North or West can call anybody east of Ondo state Igbo, what do you expect them to call someone who bears an Igbo (Igboid if you like) name. People are not as sophisticated as that. It's only natural for people not to be critical. We're emotional creatures. The same way some from Egbema in Rivers statemay say they are not Igbo without cvritically considering the fact that his fellow Egbema native in neigbouring Imo state is a bonafide Igbo person. It just doesn't make sense and one may be forced to believe that something has passed under the bridge and it may not be water.

Igboid:


That we should not continue reminding Ikwerres people that their Igbo denial started right after the civil war and never before?

You must be joking.

I don't think any Igbo has any problem with Ikwerres Igbo denial, what we have problem with is the distortion of shared history and concoction of absurd falsehoods as history and the need to paint the Igbo as the villain in other to sell these new absurd histories as championed by Elechi Amadi.

The emboldened has always been my only problem. I have accepted Ikwerre as a different ethnic group from Igbo but what irks me is the distortion. It's plain annoying. How on earth can you champion a benin migration against an Igbo one and be proud of it when it does not make any sense and claim that you met Igbos through trading. That's just plain annoying and an attempt to twist history. Let's just agree to the fact that present Ikwerre land does not want to be seen as Igbo. Chikena.

Afam4eva:

The emboldened has always been my only problem. I have accepted Ikwerre as a different ethnic group from Igbo but what irks me is the distortion. It's plain annoying. How on earth can you champion a benin migration against an Igbo one and be proud of it when it does not make any sense and claim that you met Igbos through trading. That's just plain annoying and an attempt to twist history. Let's just agree to the fact that present Ikwerre land does not want to be seen as Igbo. Chikena.

I beg to differ. And i must opine that i find it absurb and outrightly shallow for someone to sit back and assume that Ikwerres distorted their history simply because they do not want to be regarded as, or seen to be Igbos. It is on record that Ikwerres fought for a separate identity long before the civil war, but that is not the issue now.

Oral history as passed down from generations overtime become abit distorted but the crux of the history is preserved. And what we've given to you as our history is what it is.

I'd like you to think outside the box, reason away from the norm and make your personal inference. If you Afam, have cause to run away from your village with your wife and brother and settle in an an area which you are bordered almost on all sides by Hausas, in area where you are outnumbered 100 to 1 after some centuries, you may have lost all your native tongue and customs and have taken the one of your immediate community. Scholars will have a hard time dealing with the oral history as told by your future generation.

I'd like you to think outside the box, reason away from the norm and make your personal inference. If you Afam, have cause to run away from your village with your wife and brother and settle in an an area which you are bordered almost on all sides by Hausas, in area where you are outnumbered 100 to 1 after some centuries, you may have lost all your native tongue and customs and have taken the one of your immediate community. Scholars will have a hard time dealing with the oral history as told by your future generation.


Another pile of faeces.

Ikwerres were not the only group that had Igbos as neighbors in Eastern region. The Ogonis have Igbos as neighbors too, and they are even smaller than Ikwerre.

They traded with Ndiigbo too, and intermarried with us. But Ogoni language and culture remain distinct from those of Ndiigbo today.

We even have the Odiani people in Aniocha, as a living evidence that being surrounded by people who speak a different language from you can affect you, but not so much that there wouldn't be evidence of a dead or a dying language, as Odiani people still have their Yoruboid language with them, which they currently speak together with the Igbo language they borrowed from their Igbo speaking neighbors, making them bilingual.
Mind you, unlike Odiani, Ikwerre is not surrounded entirely by Ndiigbo, they also share boundaries with the Ogonis and the Okirika people.

No where in history does a group of people who were never colonized lose their language completely with no evidence of a dead language whatsoever.

The theory of Ikwerre losing her bini language entirely to Igbo language because of proximity to Igboland and trade/ marital interactions with Ndiigbo is a falsehood that can be never stand the scrutiny of rationality.

Igboid:
I'd like you to think outside the box, reason away from the norm and make your personal inference. If you Afam, have cause to run away from your village with your wife and brother and settle in an an area which you are bordered almost on all sides by Hausas, in area where you are outnumbered 100 to 1 after some centuries, you may have lost all your native tongue and customs and have taken the one of your immediate community. Scholars will have a hard time dealing with the oral history as told by your future generation.


Another pile of faeces.

Ikwerres were not the only group that had Igbos as neighbors in Eastern region. The Ogonis have Igbos as neighbors too, and they are even smaller than Ikwerre.

They traded with Ndiigbo too, and intermarried with us. But Ogoni language and culture remain distinct from those of Ndiigbo today.

We even have the Odiani people in Aniocha, as a living evidence that being surrounded by people who speak a different language from you can affect you, but not so much that there wouldn't be evidence of a dead or a dying language, as Odiani people still have their Yoruboid language with them, which they currently speak together with the Igbo language they borrowed from their Igbo speaking neighbors, making them bilingual.
Mind you, unlike Odiani, Ikwerre is not surrounded entirely by Ndiigbo, they also share boundaries with the Ogonis and the Okirika people.

No where in history does a group of people who were never colonized lose their language completely with no evidence of a dead language whatsoever.

The theory of Ikwerre losing her bini language entirely to Igbo language because of proximity to Igboland and trade/ marital interactions with Ndiigbo is a falsehood that can be never stand the scrutiny of rationality.

a brief history of Onitsha will enlighten you on the history of a people and the reality of today.

[b]Onitsha Mmili was known as Ado N'Idu by
migrants who departed from the vicinity
of the Kingdom of Benin near the far
western portion of Igboland (near what is
now Agbor), after a violent dispute with
the Oba of Benin that can be tentatively
dated to the early 1500s.[4] Traveling
eastward through what is now Western
Igboland (and various towns also called
"Onitsha", for example Onicha-Ugbo,
"farmland-Onitsha". Folklore has it that,
Onitsha was founded by one of the sons
of Chima, the founder of Issele-Uku
kingdom in western Igboland. Chima, a
prince of the ancient Benin kingdom
emigrated, settled and founded now
known as Issele-Uku in Aniocha North
Local Government Area. The eldest son of
Chima eventually emigrated across the
Niger River to establish the Onitsha
community.
After their arrival on the east bank
(Onicha-mmili, "Onitsha-on-water", see
above), the community gradually became
a unitary kingdom, evolving from a loosely
organized group of "royal" villages to
encompass "non-royal" villages
comprising Igala settlers, and the native
Igbos to form a more centralized entity.[5]
Eze Aroli, was apparently the first
genuinely powerful Obi of Onitsha, the
ruler of the city.[/b]

Using Onitsha as case study shows a people can lose their original language overtime simply because they settled in an environment that they are hugely outnumbered by the natives.

Ihuruohas case is simple to understand to an unbiased mind. Say a man leaves ghana with his wife and kids, settles in an area close to Owerri. Take note of his language and culture at that time. Come back after 500 yrs and study his language and cultural pattern
and make a submission.

The Riverine communities of Okrika and Kalabari will have little cultural effect on Ikwerres because they are far smaller and do not have common land boundaries with Us. They are communities you must use canoe to access. Even so, a substantial percentage of Bonny, Opobo and Okrika have Igbo ancestry, and this are towns that are Riverine. yet Igbos still found ways to supply those communities with human population, especially Opobo.

You are clutching at straws here.

Onitsha is a fully integrated Igbo town. The royal stool of Onitsha does not deny its Igbo heritage, they suffer no identity crisis.
Even at that, we can see traces of Bini culture in Onitsha, a testament to the fact that Eze Chima, their Igbo progenitor once resided in Bini.

Onitsha copied the Bini monarchical system of government, Ikwerre until during colonial era had no Monarchies, Ezeship in Ikwerre land is a vestige of colonial warrant chief system of government introduced by the British in all Igboland. Onitsha has few ancient Bini words like Iyase, aigbogidi, to show that the people actually once resided in Bini in the time past, even some of Onitsha masquerades are known to speak ancient Igala as its language, a testament to the incorporation of Igala migrants into an Igbo speaking Onitsha in time past.

Ikwerre has no single Bini words in it's language, none whatsoever.

Onitsha has always been Igbo speaking and do not pretend to have ever spoken any other language since antiquity other than their current Igbo dialect, Ikwerre on the other hand claims to have been Bini speakers whose contact with Igbo people changed their language.
But from the example of yoruboid speaking communities of Odiani in Aniocha who migrated from Yorubaland into Western Igboland, we know that it's impossible for a group not colonized by her bigger but different language speaking neighbors to lose her language totally and replace that with those of the neighbors, without any trace of the group's original language.

You couldn't have picked a worst example to support your Ikwerr. shameful Bini origin concocted story than Onitsha.

Opobo wasn't influenced by Igbos. Opobo was a virgin land that was founded by an Igbo speaking jaja, his Ijaw followers and many Igbo slaves that he had at his disposal.

It became Igbo from the very beginning, it wasn't influenced by Igbo.

Ikwerre were not surrounded by a large Igbo nation, as of the time Ikwerre claimed the Igbos influenced their original Bini language into Igbo, which should be before the coming of the colonials, as their was no concept of Igbo nation as of then. Rather Ikwerre was surrounded by small tribes like Ndoki, Ohaji/ Egbema, and Ekpeye , Okrika, who all spoke their own respective languages, and these groups are all smaller than Ikwerre and shouldn't be expected to change Ikwerre edoic language entirely with no trace of Edo words, because smaller groups like udekeme( Degema) , Abua and Epie in the region, who spoke edoid languages still retained their edoid languages even till today.

There is no way Ikwerre concocted Bini origin falsehood can survive once put under the microscope of rational scrutiny, cos the story is blatant lie and insult to any rational brain out there.