GODSON has claimed that the Qur'aan contains a number of contradictions that makes it unfit to be called a Revealed Book, adn we have said that is a lie. He has asked us to open a thread to trash that out, now we do. So O GODSON bring those contradictions.

may Allah bless u for opening this jhread. Now this issue will be settled once and for all. Godson, noetic, kunleosob etc pls bring it on. No generalization or diversion from topic. And pls quote specific verses for any claim of 'contradiction' made

@abubanaat, the christians are cunning in turning a blind eye when issues like this come, Sir olawale and i had addressed it times without number. For easy knock, go to Answering-islam and copy the alleged contradiction and solve it for them thats where they will also go and copy it, who knows they may understand ur explanation better, la'alakum turhamun

thaqnks for this insightful and lovely thread,however i am not at home and i am going for my church fellowship till late today,however i will compile the contradictions and then post it on here for you to chew on

when you come back you will meet me Insha Allaah, I swear by allaah that your ignorance about the Qur'an and its sciences will be exposed to the whole world.

Lest I forget to add Insha Allah.

And when are true, we will go to paedophile, hmm.

some of the contradictions in the quran,

1.in the quran mohammad specifically enjoins his followers to desist from polytheism, Say: I am only a mortal like you. My Lord inspireth in me that your God is only One God. And whoever hopeth for the meeting with his Lord, let him do righteous work, and make none sharer of the worship due unto his Lord.” [Quran 18:110]

And (remember) when Luqman said unto his son, when he was son! Ascribe no partners unto Allah. Lo! to ascribe partners wrong” [Quran 31:13

amongst several other verses, however i the meccan verses he says,

What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? verse 21

Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! verse 22

These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! verse 23

in these verses he was justifying the arabians worship of the three godess,

now the muslims explanation for this is that mohammad abrogated the three verses at the buttom with other verses like the ones at the top because it was a process of weaning them off sin and then strenghtening them before giving them holier edicts which he did mostly in the medinan version,

my question is this, based on this two sets of contradictions in the quran which mohammad had expunged and nullified by the way, let us assume their explanations for abrogations is in order, what iota of sense does it make for a religious leader who had enjoined his young fresh believers to burn their idols and follow him which they did amidst persections from friends and families to now turnround,and justify the acts of these same people his believers cut off from?

the second question is this, if mohammad was sure that this was only a simple harmless case of abrogation,why did he have these contentious verses nullified and expunged??surely what you are not ashamed off you will not hide

@Godson2009: I am not answering for Abulbanaat, while he is away, could you therefore show me, where in the above, or anywhere in the Quran that "Allah" and since you are blaming Muhammad (AS), where is it that Muhammad said anyone should worship anything that is different from Allah?

In all my arguments with you I will want to read this, for my own edifice, while you and abulbanaat will carry on, as he returns.

the second contradiction i have discovered in islam is concerning that of jihad

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them and drive them out from whence they drove you out, for oppression is worse than killing. But fight them not at the sacred mosque unless they fight you there. But if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. But if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 190-193]

here,mohammad tells his followers to only fight,when they are being fought against which is fair enough,in fact he even highlights the fact that his allah hates transgressors which is styill very good,however sometime later i am not sure if their allah changed his mind about the jews and christians or if he had something against them but in the verses below here is the direct contradiction to the one above,

in the same quran 8;12-13,

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."  verse 12

This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. verse 13

now i will like you o abulnaat to explain the rationale of the abrogation between a fair defensive course of jihad with the oppresive attack mode of jihad, going by the explanation of abrogation i guess he has given you something better i.e the medinan verses just quoted

olabowale:

@Godson2009: I am not answering for Abulbanaat, while he is away, could you therefore show me, where in the above, or anywhere in the Quran that "Allah" and since you are blaming Muhammad (AS), where is it that Muhammad said anyone should worship anything that is different from Allah?

In all my arguments with you I will want to read this, for my own edifice, while you and abulbanaat will carry on, as he returns.

dont even start that one with me abeg,you and i both know what mohammad meant by these verses especially the last verse so dont patronise me sire,you either rise up to the challenge you gys threw at my feet or foreever hold your peace, he asked me to state my contradictions in the quran which i picked out, i have not quoted anything out of the quran yet

lol!
Godson is this your best shot? Or are are u saving the best for the last? I am disapointed in you. Am equaly tempted to respond to you but like sir olabowale i will give abdulbanat the pleasure of nailing your coffin.

ok then sire,im waiting for him to nail mohammad's coffin,at least that will answer the questions i have been asking since which the likes of olabowale and co have not been a ble to answer, its not a competition as i am actually looking for a sensible explanation as well thank you all for your efforts in trying to educate me
as for saving the best for last,i dont know about that,but i still have many more though,

on gender inequality, the contradiction are women that precious like olabowale had kindly shown me with numerous quranic verses on his thread or are they no better than cattles and camel like the numerous examples i v got which i will post in due course,

on the worship of idols which mohammad started and you muslims are still indulging in till today

i will also join some pertinent questions which has been bothering me as well e.g what is wit the yearly bloodshed in mecca?
if i was going to renew my vows with GOD in a supposedly holy place,i dont expect to be trampled to death, i have noticed that one thing which leads to shedding of blood happens every year why is that if you ask me i think it is some occultic covenant connected to the idols and demons you guys knowingly or unknowingly worship and bow down to every year,

lastlysee ing as we have a whole thread to ventilate our concerns,i will also post some popular myths about islam which i want to be ventilated

once again,i am thanking you guys in advance for this thread but i will appeal to you olabowale,abulnaat and others let us answer questions directly,straight to the point and without long winded explanations, if you ask me if jesus was a paedophile,i dont need to quote bible verses to say an emphatic and earth resounding NO he was of the highest moral standards and rather than marry children loved them like a benevolent and lovely uncle,

mohammad asserted that women were precious and needed to be treated right, pls alhaji olabowale can you kindly help me out with the verses im sure you dont mind as i cant be bothered, ill rather post the bad part lol

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them."

Bukhari (88:219) - "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

mohammad even says that women constitute the bulk of hell's occupants,

The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you,

Lol, godson, is that ur best trial ? Lol how i wish david was here.


Over to you Abubanat

« #10 on: Today at 11:14:10 PM »  

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 11:03:36 PM
@Godson2009: I am not answering for Abulbanaat, while he is away, could you therefore show me, where in the above, or anywhere in the Quran that "Allah" and since you are blaming Muhammad (AS), where is it that Muhammad said anyone should worship anything that is different from Allah?

In all my arguments with you I will want to read this, for my own edifice, while you and abulbanaat will carry on, as he returns.

dont even start that one with me abeg,you and i both know what mohammad meant by these verses especially the last verse so dont patronise me sire,you either rise up to the challenge you gys threw at my feet or foreever hold your peace, he asked me to state my contradictions in the quran which i picked out, i have not quoted anything out of the quran yet

The bolded is your response to my post above it. How you know that I agree with you on anything, except that you and I are humans, and all the humanly obvious values that we share beats me!

We are very different; you have 3 gods and star a cross on your neck. I neither want a cross around me, nor do I have any interest in anything similar to Ogun, Agemo, etc in my mind, gods or god! If with all our differences, you have managed to read my mind, tell me what I will be doing when you are rsepnding to me? I know you will be 100% wrong as you are wrong, 100% in calling a bleeder, an eater, slumberer, a deficater, a urinater, etc God, while you still have two others hanging around! Those are the facts, man.


When you make your accusation, I asked for proof, you did not produce any that is unrefutable. If you ask me to proof that you have 3 gods and one of them is a human (deficater), I will simply provide verses from your Bible.

In responding to christians we have to be careful in our desciption of the Prophet Eesa may the peace of Allaah be on him.lest we go the to the extreme in describing him since we know dis can lead to disbelieving in him.sorry dis might be of the topic but b4 abulbanat responds, godslave and his likes might benefit from the section of O WORSHIPPERS OF CHRIST.may Allaah guide them to the path of islaam.NB this wil only happen if they sincerely search for it.And Allaah does not guide the arrogant disbeliever(sinner).
May Allaah's peace and blessings be on our Prophet Muhammad and his household

when I saw what has been posted so far, I could not help but laugh at igorance of GODSON (GODSLAVE, as salafiaji has just dubbed him), and i can percieve the uneasiness the brothers have already caused him. Well i promise to him the final blow when I come back from work, as I am planning for work now. But before then GODSON, know that you have your conscince to free or enslave for life.

"I only desire reform so far as I am able, to the best of my power. And my guidance cannot come except from Allâh, in Him I trust and unto Him I repent." [Q11: 88].

Kudos to you elder Olabowale.

aaa'abulbannat

of course,im always scared of muslims especially when they are more than one,because violence and intimidation is encoded in their genetic dna from their allah,i have given you a rough outline of all the questions i will be asking in my last comment,so the 2 or so questions i have just asked is just bread as butter is coming to join it much later,i am going to obodo nigeria in 3 days time for a couple of days so in case i dont respond it is because of my schedule,but i have all my questions and contradictions written down with evidence,im sure sheik olabowale trusts me on that as i have sample him many times

@olabowale,uplawal
if you have dollars to send to the family,i am willing to help you deliver it so that i can even get a chance to evangelize and convert your families in nigeria to christianity before i come back
@abulbaanat
pls read my own mini rules concerning this debate we have just started,no offhand counter questions, let us answer questions directly without any ambiguous nebulous comments,with long winded quranic recitations this is so that it doesnt get to be like sheik number 1 olabiowale's thread

Salam,

What a thread! I like it. I am too not gonna make much contributions in the discussion for one or two reason(s).

@Abulbanaat,

May Allah, the Exalted, increase your knowlegde and bless you.

May He also expose the fact and the fiction and the persons depending each, amen.

So you are coming to Nigeria (if you are not already in Nigeria), and you threatened that you will not be able to respond because of schedule. You must respond, one there is enough Internet facility in Nigeria (MTN, Zain, Glo, etc). And I want to ask you for an offer: Can you make it to Ife so that we can discuss one-on-one (at times that is better). Please let me know if you can make that. Or do you want me to visit you?

My responses will come shortly one after the other.

In the Name of Allaah I begin and ask Allaah the Uncreated Creator and the Mighty Lord of the Magnificent Throne to open the hearts of those who are yet to believe in His Oneness and the Messengership of His noblest creature, Muhammad, may Allah exalt his mention.

Yes GODSON brought the first alleged contradiction in the Book where its Revealer had said:

“Do they not then consider the Qur'ân carefully? Had it been from other than Allâh, they would surely have found therein much contradictions.” [Q4: 82].

What the verse quoted earlier implies is that you will not find any contradiction in the Qur’aan because it is from the Creator of the heavens and the earth.

And GODSON has belied that statement saying he has seen some contradictions in the Book revealed by his Lord. Thus he said:

The following verses:

“Say: I am only a mortal like you. My Lord inspireth in me that your God is only One God. And whoever hopeth for the meeting with his Lord, let him do righteous work, and make none sharer of the worship due unto his Lord.” [Quran 18:110]


“And (remember) when Luqman said unto his son, when he was son! Ascribe no partners unto Allah. Lo! to ascribe partners wrong” [Quran 31:13”

Contradict these:

“What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!” [ Q53: 21-23].

So GODSON concludes:

‘in these verses he was justifying the arabians worship of the three godess, ‘

I say: If GODSON had pondered on the meaning of the third verse he would have realized that it is disparaging the Arabs’ worship of those goddesses.

Let him read it again:

“They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!”

So ‘they’ in the verse refers to the pagan Arabs. And what that means is that those goddesses that they worship before Allaah are the conjectures of the pagan Arabs and what their soul contrive. Allah therefore declares:
“Allah has sent down no authority (for their worship).”

Will he now understand? So there is no contradiction. GODSON, take heart. I can understand you, it is the translation that misled you. In the original Arabic Text (which is the Qur’aan for all intent and purposes), there is a usage of Taqdeem wa Ta’kheer (bringing back and forth), it is part of the Arabic rhetoric (Balaaghah) which abounds in the Qur’aan because it was revealed by the All-Wise.

“So the disbeliever was utterly defeated. And Allâh guides not the people, who are Zâlimûn (wrong-doers, etc.).” [Q2: 258].

As for his second alleged contradiction in the Qur’aan (may Allaah preserve His Book from such an evil ascription) that borders on the verses commanding Jihâd and others that say Muslims should not fight (even though there are not such verses that explicitly say Muslims should not fight).

He said:

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them and drive them out from whence they drove you out, for oppression is worse than killing. But fight them not at the sacred mosque unless they fight you there. But if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. But if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 190-193]



“Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." verse 12


“This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. verse 13” End of quote from Godson.



I say: Though he said the verses contradict one another, but went ahead to allude to the principle of abrogation.

He said:
“now i will like you o abulnaat to explain the rationale of the abrogation between a fair defensive course of jihad with the oppresive attack mode of jihad, going by the explanation of abrogation i guess he has given you something better i.e the medinan verses just quoted”

I say: He wants to merge the two together, that those verses commanding fight after the Muslims have been asked not to fight, and the ones commanding fight, are contradictory. That it cannot be explained using the principle of abrogation.

I will like him to see whether lexically (in the English language) ‘abrogation’ and ‘contradiction’ mean the same thing.
For instance ‘abrogation’ means: ‘An act of doing away with something; ending an agreement or contract formally and publicly.’

And ‘contradiction’ means: ‘Something that has aspects that are illogical or inconsistent with each other.’

Thus we have said it befits His Majesty, Allaah the Infinite Lord to abrogate laws that deal with the affair of a people undergoing a change.

So in the case of Jihaad, since it is Allaah that knows the affairs of His creatures, He implicitly refrained the Muslims from fight because He knew that they were not capable at the initial stage to fight. Imagine the Muslims rising giants the Makkan authorities while all of them were in Makkah, the Muslims would have been routed effortlessly. What gives credulence to that was when the Muslims were ostracized to the outskirts of Makkaah some few years before the Hijrah, if the Muslims had risen to fight, who knows what will become of Islam today.

So that Allaah should later command the Muslims to fight was necessary and it was logical.

It would have been illogical if Allaah had said earlier: ‘O Muslims know that in this your religion you cannot fight at all,’ and later said: ‘O Muslim, I am sorry for telling you what I said before, you must fight now.’ There is no doubt in the fact that that is illogical and inconsistent. But our Lord never said that, otherwise people like GODSON would have scored a point.

So there is no contradiction! And abrogation is justified.

“So the disbeliever was utterly defeated. And Allâh guides not the people, who are Zâlimûn (wrong-doers, etc.).” [Q2: 258].

His third alleged contradiction in the Qur’aan. Although what he could after all brought is ‘a contradiction’ between the Qur’aan and the Sunnah (the hadith of the Prophet). He was not even ashamed of himself to ask elder Olabowale to post the Qur’ânic verses that contradict one another (can you see someone who wants to point out contradictions in the Qur’aan, O Christians will you still trust him to fight on your behalf, you better get a substitute.)

Anyway since you have brought that ‘contradiction’ between the Qur’aan and the Sunnah, we shall answer you, and clear your doubt and educate you as you have said. Hear yourself say that:

‘i am actually looking for a sensible explanation as well thank you all for your efforts in trying to educate me.’

But are you sincere?

Thus GODSON said:

“Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them."


Bukhari (88:219) - "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

mohammad even says that women constitute the bulk of hell's occupants,

The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you”


But where is the contradiction?

The verse is describing the role of men over women, and in fact it is showing that the women are subordinates to men [because that they are so is more honourable for them than men are subordinate to them].

As for the Ahadith (plural of hadith) viz. the one from Bukhaari, it is passing a judgement that men are better left with leadership positions than women, that a nation that allows a woman to be its leader will not prosper. [America will not have prospered if women had been its leaders; Great Britain was great when men were its kings. Could a woman have ruled France during its Revolution in France?]

In fact the prophet made that statement when he heard that a woman has assumed the mantle of leadership in Persia, so he said no nation will prosper if a woman became its leader, so was it for the Persia Empire, the Muslims conquered them.

As for your second hadith, yes it is authentic. There the Prophet was telling the Muslims of what he was shown in the hell of its inmates (in his historic journey to the heavens [i have been expecting you to tackle me on this but, ]), that the majority of its inhabitants are women because of those crimes that he mentioned. And what he mentioned were just examples, for women are known to do what is worse. The bulk of the people that cause evil in the world today are women, look at you society and see for yourself – unclothedness, prostitution, etc. It can be safely concluded that it is women that make men do what they do. It is said that there are two forces that direct the world: Money and women.

I have said it in our former discussion that men and women are spiritually the same, but their roles, as Allaah has created them is different. And physically men are different from women. Even your Olympics, men and women do not run the same 100 meters, do they?

Well we may have to open another thread for this, so that we can have time to thrash it out the way we are doing for the contradictions in the Qur’aan here.

So there is no contradiction between the Aayah you brought and the Ahadith, GODSON. Sorry.

“So the disbeliever was utterly defeated. And Allâh guides not the people, who are Zâlimûn (wrong-doers, etc.).” [Q2: 258].

And may I finally say that I noticed your distractions as you were bringing your alleged contradictions in the Qur’aan, like your allusion to ‘Satanic Verses,’ paedophilia and host of others.

My plan now is that we will take it one after the other. Do not make the mistake of thinking that this thread is aimed to attack all the issues, no we will take one after the other. I am for you.

So most probably after this we will go to ‘paedophile’, then ‘Satanic Verses,’ what of ‘Miriam in the Qur’aan,’ you would like ‘gender inequality’ again, and other issues which have not made you accept Islam. Just be patient, we will look at each one after the other. Are you not fighting for the Cross? We would see.

ALLAHU AKBAR, ,. Over to godslave

@abulbanaat
i am presently now going to the airport in the next 20 minutes or so to catch my flight to naija,if i get some time off what i am in nigeria for and i can use the internet i will log on and address your comments,however mark my words and i want you to insert this particular quote in your reply so that i wont have any chance of modifying it, i promise you that after answering the half truths and your poor attempt at explaining away the satanic verses,and the ones on jihad i will post nothing less than 20 contradictions and that is just for a start,i solemnly promise you that this thread will be an albatross to your islam and anyone contemplating a conversion to islam will think twice, please do not forget to insert this particular comment into your reply so that i wont be a ble to withdraw my challenge"nothing less than 20 contradictions in the quran for a start"

as soon as i get home by GOD'S grace and get some internet connection,i will acess my archives and then slowly decapitate islam just remember no fighting o thank GOD you dnt know my airline sef

Safe journey dude, patiently waiting ,

If we ever see your hand again, then you will meet us at home. So check your archives very well for hundreds of contradictions in the Qur'aan, I assure you that you will not be able to find any except your wild imaginations.

Contradictions in the koran

Surah 12:20 tells us:


They sold him [Joseph] for a miserable price, for a few dirhams counted out [darahima ma‘dudatin]; in such low estimation did they hold him!

The use of the word Dirham in the sale of Joseph as a slave is one of many anachronisms in the Qur'an. Dirhams, as well as all other coins, did not exist in the time of Joseph. Even if one accepts the dating of Joseph's life in Egypt, coins were still not invented until several centuries after his time.

Contradiction No. 2

The Qur'an says that the calf worshipped by the Israelites at mount Horeb was molded by a Samaritan (Sura 20:85-87, 95-97). Yet the term `Samaritan' was not coined until 722 B.C., which is several hundred years after the events recorded in Exodus. Thus, the Samaritan people could not have existed during the life of Moses, and therefore, could not have been responsible for molding the calf.