Did you read what I wrote?

"JUST WAR" is defensive in nature.

It is not offensive in nature, that is, you don't attack first, but in response to an attack, you defend yourself. The purpose of this defensive action, is to stop an attack, with the result that the attack is stopped. Research World War 2 and see if what's happening in Southern Kaduna isn't similar, not in the number of casualties but in the context of potential genocide.

I hope you will defend your family, if they are attacked, I really hope you do.

It is never okay to kill anyone, because you didn't give them life in the first place. But what will you do, if you are being attacked, or if your family is being attacked?

Ubenedictus:
do u know what the just war theory says? do u know the conditions for a just war? is it ok to kill someone just becos he looks like a fulani?

snapscore:


I agree but I hope the government would not forcefully build the ranches where it's not wanted. I hope the government take into consideration why people don't want ranches in their community because I can already think of many reason why people wouldn't want one.

OK

What do you mean by this? What happened to the old one? Were they already used up by the herdsmen?

No. Farmers illegally used the ranches for farming.

This is the problem. A cow's life is not the same as a human's life. You cannot go grazing on other people's property and then expect them to do nothing. Yahni this is oppression. The cows are a means of livelihood for the herdsmen and the farms are a means of livelihood for the farmers. You don't oppress other people to satisfy yourself and even worse not feel remorse.

Why do you farm in my ranches? Farmers oppressed herdsmen by farming in their ranches also. It's not a 1 side oppression.

Why would anyone think it's okay or justifiable to do steal and kill because there are not enough ranches? This is really what I would like to understand. What goes on in the headmen's mind when he is grazing on other people's property and then then attacking them for resisting?What makes them think it is okay or justifiable to do that?

Nobody said they are right. Infact they should be punish. 2 wrong don't make right. But we should never forget Farmers used herdsmen land to farm.

I don't know much to say whether it is religious or ethic or because of the reserves but I am speaking in general terms about attacking people after grazing on their property.

Do you also speak on farming on grazing reserves established during (I think) military regimes ?

I agree with this but I still stand that the root cause of the problem is not the ranches but morality.

I still insist ranches is the root of the problem.

It's an issue of realizing right from wrong.

Samething goes to farmers they couldn't realize it's wrong to farm on grazing reserves.

If we say the ranches is the root problem, then we can say the root problem of crimes committed by the poor is the lack appropriate jobs or income.

Lack of good job is the root of the problem. Provide job & majority of the crimes will drastically reduce

But this not the case because there are other factors that contribute as well. One of them is morality.

I agree but nobody is born with violence. There must be a reason for it. And 90% of it is not morality.

Let me give a real life example. I think about three days ago there was a news about a man who knowingly lured a woman to her death for 10k. Can we then say that the government should first provide people with jobs and then watch for who would break the law? No. Why? Because he's not the only person who doesn't have enough and what he did is wrong and unacceptable anywhere in the world. Regardless how poor a person is, it is not justifiable to take another soul just to earn money.

Ok

We can agree that the ranches are not enough but how about going about it the right way?

We don't agree on this. We agree fermers illegally used up herdsmen ranches to cultivate.

How about the herdsmen agree to pay the farmers to graze on their crops until the government provides them with new ranches? Why does it have to be oppression?

How can they allow them to graze on crops? Crops you said. Then what's the essence of farming.

Herdsmen will pays tax to government on feeding their livestock on reserves. Why do farmers oppress rearers by using their ranches also? Can't they ask government for more land to farm ?

I think the herdsmen don't realize that what they are doing is wrong and it doesn't seem like they are remorseful because it's something that has repeatedly happened.

They know it's wrong. They also believe it's wrong to use their ranches.

If the ranches are insufficient, there are appropriate ways of dealing with it and oppressing people isn't one of them.

It's not the matter of sufficiency but illegal usage of ranches by farmers and the government keeps mute

Hope you get where I am coming from?

Can you please explain what happened to the old ranches? It might help my understanding of the situation.

I think the aboves can answer this one.

vislabraye:


So protecting yourself is not unchristianlike ? . I thought you wanted the Christians to fold their hands and be killed.
I don't know of any moslem who have condemned this killing. You just have to see this from Oyedepos point of view. He's the only MOG that's vocal against this evil.

My own is to write, understanding my point is your responsibility, and I shall not be held responsible if you don't.

Oyedepo spoke carnally, his words are apostasy, and Paul said if anyone, even amongst the apostles come to preach another doctrine he should be cast out.

MichaelUweh:
If u there mention that name again the fire of God will consume you.

Which fire from which god? fire from god Oyedepo? Uncle, I am from waiting for the fire o

TonyeBarcanista:
By TonyeBarcanista

I read the well publicized article in which respected Bishop David Oyedepo of Winners Chapel called for the killing and sliding of throats of potential Muslims/Fulani attackers. In the words of Oyedepo

“You catch anyone that looks like them, kill him! There is no reporting to anybody. Kill him! Pull off his neck! And we spill his blood on the ground. What nonsense.”

Bishop Oyedepo Views Against Christian Doctrine:
The call by Bishop Oyedepo with due respect goes contrary to the Christian teachings going by what is recorded in the Bible as well as Bible teaching on how Christians should live.

Firstly, Jesus, our perfect example displayed it when in the book of Matthew 26:52, he condemned Apostle Peter for cutting off the ears of one of the servants of the High Priest that went to arrest him, named Malchus. Jesus not only healed the servant but admonished Peter that "for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

The action of Jesus Christ in the above story was in line with his teaching in the Mountain as recorded in Matthew 5:44, where he said But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;, as against "an eye for an eye" treatment that was practised by the Judaisers under the Mosaic law that was never perfect.

His disciples and the Christian Church lived according to this teaching by not retaliating even in the height of persecution during the Roman empire that saw Apostles Paul beheaded, Peter crucified under Emperor Nero, and other members of the early Church die violent deaths under the rule of Roman emperors. In fact, during that period, God showed John the beloved revelation of the last day BUT never did he empower him to retaliate or kill.

If Jesus Christ and the early Church stuck to Christian doctrine, where did Bishop Oyedepo got his own authority?

What Makes Us Christians:
The believers were first called Christians in Antioch because they displayed the rare characters of Jesus Christ. If this is true, it is safe that the thing that made us Christians is our leading of the life of Christ, not that of any man irrespective of title. If we can't be like Christ and heed to his teachings then we have no business calling ourselves Christians. Jesus stance against retaliating to the oppressing Romans made the Jews to prefer him to die instead of the violent Barnabas. We must be like Christ by insisting on non violence.

If Apostle James could admonished the early Church that was facing trials of various kind because of their faith to "count it all joy", how much more us?



His Call Against Nigeria Law:
Despite the fact that we have choose to accept our society to be lawless, the law of Nigeria is clearly against incite to kill fellow citizens and residents, as well as taking laws into ones hands aka self help.

The only authority empowered to bring defaulters of the law to justice is the Police and other agents of the State. No citizen has that power. As citizen, it is our civil duty to avail the Police and other security agents information to arrest criminals potential criminals and their activities. While jungle justice is usually employed by citizens due to ineptitude of the authorities, it never made the act right. But for one to incite the gruesome killing of people that "appear" as attackers and not just attackers, it is unfortunate. statement like “You catch anyone that looks like them, kill him!” must be condemned by all, and without partiality.

If these statements were made by Asari Dokubo or Nnamdi Kanu, I am very sure that the authorities won't take it lightly. The law must respect nobody irrespective of perceived standing in the society.

Statements Endangering Christians And Non Christians:
BEfore any war is fought, there is usually inciting statements from so called leaders. The statements credited to some Muslim groups and clerics, as well as this credited to Governor Elrufai and Bishop Oyedepo is what fuels sectarian violence in Nigeria. Truth is, should there be violence (like we have in Southern Kaduna), it is ONLY the defenceless innocent that get killed, while the elites and their families are fully secured. Nigerians, both Christians and Muslims must understand that the elite are never enemies irrespective of their noise in the media.

The statement of Oyedepo is capable of causing counter statement from some Islamic leaders and attack on citizens will start. The statement is not different from those of Abubakar Shekau or other extremists like Miyetti leaders and some other muslim fanatical clergies.

I condemn the genocide in Southern Kaduna, it is my belief that agents of Kaduna state government as well leaders of Miyetti Allah are complicit in this shameful killing. It is my hope that a case is established against perpetrators of the violence to higher authorities (like the ICC), but it does not in anyway justify incitement against anybody or group of persons.

As Christians we must adhere STRICTLY to Christian doctrine and not apostasy! Bishop David Oyedepo must be called to order.

I shall end this with the Words of Apostle Paul to the Church in Ephesus when the Church was under persecution in the book of Ephesians 6:12;

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


May God Bless Us All And Bless Nigeria

Shared on Palmchat

Mtchewwww...

The story of lord Oyedepo, his god and his version of Christianity. We've not heard the last of his unchristlike rants and his Canaan Emirate.

TonyeBarcanista:
Which fire from which god? fire from god Oyedepo? Uncle, I am from waiting for the fire o

No mind the people who have been indoctrinated into Oyedepo's version of Christianity. They have this belief that Oyedepo is so powerful that he could literally spit curses, threats, fire and brimstones.
It is simple let Oyedepo be the first to draw the sword against Fulani Militia being that his curses and "do you know who I am" is not working. Unfortunately, he moves around with armed escorts and has a team of Senior Advocates that could help his course but his followers that he's inciting OYO.

Topgainer:
The story of lord Oyedepo, his god and his version of Christianity. We've not heard the last of his unchristlike rants and his Canaan Emirate.
No mind the people who have been indoctrinated into Oyedepo's version of Christianity. They have this belief that Oyedepo is so powerful that he could literally spit curses, threats, fire and brimstones.
It is simple let Oyedepo be the first to draw the sword against Fulani Militia being that his curses and "do you know who I am" is not working. Unfortunately, he moves around with armed escorts and has a team of Senior Advocates that could help his course but his followers that he's inciting OYO.

The same man wey open the gate of hell for APC yet them win election.

All these apostates

thesicilian:
This OP must be a terrorist. Calling on Christians to defend themselves against the marauding beasts from the north is against the Nigerian law, but the actions of the attackers is not?

Leave am! If I sight any of those i.diots charge at me to kill me, I should watch him remove my head or strike me! I swear to God, Oyedepo is not pissed the way I am at what has been happening to my fellow Christian brethren! On my own, if any i.diot among them come at me, if I no murd' am sharp-sharp, make God punish me! Rubbish!

TonyeBarcanista:
My own is to write, understanding my point is your responsibility, and I shall not be held responsible if you don't.

Oyedepo spoke carnally, his words are apostasy, and Paul said if anyone, even amongst the apostles come to preach another doctrine he should be cast out.

You're quoting scriptures out of context..... . Maybe you should tell us what you would do to address the crisis in Kaduna. If fir instance Israel had not stood up to fight, would there be any land called Israel ?

vislabraye:


You're quoting scriptures out of context..... . Maybe you should tell us what you would do to address the crisis in Kaduna. If fir instance Israel had not stood up to fight, would there be any land called Israel ?

Your Oyedepo is even ashamed of the statement. he has started preaching peace, you are here spilling badderash


“If there has been anything done, it has been prayer for peace and unity of Nigeria"- Oyedepo

vislabraye:



May be if you hear an eye witness account you would know better. FYI no Moslem was killed during the attack. And when someone was being killed, the killers shout allah akbar. What does it look like to you ?
Do you also know that Southern Kaduna is populated by mostly Christians ?

Stop this madness, first of all there alot of muslims tht live n southern kaduna, u will prolly have more muslims than xtains n d southern kaduna, secondly the fact tht they shout Allah hakbah doesn't mean it's just xtains tht r been killed, what is wrong with u??

Doesn't Boko Haram and other radical extremist terrorist chant the same Allah Akbar tin wen dey kill n d North East, dnt they kill their fellow muslims n d name of Allah too??

Dnt b stvpid

jusRadical:




How would you know when you do not even know the demands of your brothers, boko haram?


Have you confirmed the official name of boko haram and their demands for Nigeria to be an islamic state ruled by a muslim?

Why are you avoiding it?

I guess you are a muslim. Right?


I hope you know that islam spread by the sword.

So lemme guess u r against Islam??

saintmark88:


Stop this madness, first of all there alot of muslims tht live n southern kaduna, u will prolly have more muslims than xtains n d southern kaduna, secondly the fact tht they shout Allah hakbah doesn't mean it's just xtains tht r been killed, what is wrong with u??

Doesn't Boko Haram and other radical extremist terrorist chant the same Allah Akbar tin wen dey kill n d North East, dnt they kill their fellow muslims n d name of Allah too??

Dnt b stvpid

.

Stop your mumuness. Well, I don't blame you.

TonyeBarcanista:
I'm sure you can read, and I'm also sure you saw in the original post on my position on attacks.

However, Oyedepo spoke carnally and irresponsibly! You can either be a Christian by yielding to Christ doctrine OR you choose to do it your own way but leave out Christianity. Apostasy should never be welcomed.

I'm not against people protecting themselves but I am against just killing of people just by appearance. However, if we are to be Christians, there are commandments and precepts we must stick to.

But that said, I urge Oyedepo to lead the way along with his kids and fanboys/girls and let's see if they have balls

.......he has said wat he has to say...if u have any problem with it...meet him personally and stop ranting online.....

saintmark88:

So lemme guess u r against Islam??

I hate the spirit of the anti-christ.

saintmark88:


So lemme guess u r against Islam??

I DO NOT HATE muslims. I love them and wish that they will come to the knowledge of the truth and take hold of the salvation offered freely by Christ Jesus, who died for the
forgiveness of our sin and our redemption from the law of sin and death.

Things need to happen for us tp knpw who is who.
For me, i knew real christians are not much on this country.
and Oyedepo might be asking for forgiveness for falling into this temptation, else...

#Christians Oyeah!!!! The real persecution of the last days never show be this o.
When it comes, alot and a lot will deny their faith.

May Elshaddai help us all believers.

jusRadical:




I DO NOT HATE muslims. I love them and wish that they will come to the knowledge of the truth and take hold of the salvation offered freely by Christ Jesus, who died for the
forgiveness of our sin and our redemption from the law of sin and death.

No wonder, I give up on u

saintmark88:


No wonder, I give up on u

You see?

Hate una (muslims), problem: love una, trouble. Na wa ooooooooo.

saintmark88:

No wonder, I give up on u

You see?
Hate una, problem: love una trouble. Na wa ooooooooo.

jusRadical:



You see?

Hate una (muslims), problem: love una, trouble. Na wa ooooooooo.

Any wise person would see that from my moniker, I'm not a muslim

saintmark88:


Any wise person would see that from my moniker, I'm not a muslim

Monikers do not show ones faith. I have a muslim neighbour that bears the namr Favour.

jusRadical:



Monikers do not show ones faith. I have a muslim neighbour that bears the namr Favour.

Wel just so u know, am a Christian and am Catholic

saintmark88:


Wel just so u know, am a Christian and am Catholic

Now I know. Catholics prefet muslims to other christians especially, the born agains.

I thought that this Tonye or whatever his name was a reasonable and rational person, now I know he is actually the opposite.I am embarrassed that I followed such a mess with a grossly archaic and daft perspective.

What a mess!!!

So christians can be killed willfully without attacking back.You are free to donate yourself to them.

How does Isreal, the nation whom God liveth, stay in charge in the middle east?

Those Islamic nations surrounding Israel know the consequence of trying to fight Isreal, so they behave themselves.

Touch an Israeli, Fire would fall, you don't know that in your deep seated ignorance. If those Isreali behave like you are proposing, the nation of Israel would have since been wiped out, yet you are here yarning gross garbage.

yaki84:
Op na afonja.........



Coward n a betrayer.


Infact op na tonye iscariot!

The guy is a big shame, I was grossly mistaken on the extent of his rationality.
He is perhaps one of the ignorant men parading this platform.Does he know the genocide going on in Southern Kaduna by this normadic sons of Ishmeal?

At wat cost...they perpertually live in constant fear all theor lives...always watching their backs. If you get the war u want...then u would know how foolish it was to be manililated by some selfish profit making warmongers

bezimo:
I thought that this Tonye or whatever his name was a reasonable and rational person, now I know he is actually the opposite.I am embarrassed that I followed such a mess with a grossly archaic and daft perspective.

What a mess!!!

So christians can be killed willfully without attacking back.You are free to donate yourself to them.

How does Isreal, the nation whom God liveth, stay in charge in the middle east?

Those Islamic nations surrounding Israel know the consequence of trying to fight Isreal, so they behave themselves.

Touch an Israeli, Fire would fall, you don't know that in your deep seated ignorance. If those Isreali behave like you are proposing, the nation of Israel would have since been wiped out, yet you are here yarning gross garbage.

jusRadical:



Now I know. Catholics prefet muslims to other christians especially, the born agains.

So Catholics are not born again??, well hope u saw in d news that Boko Haram just bombed a mosque n d university of maiduguri, a mosque not a church, so how do u xplain this, since u tend to understand their demands so well

jojotemitopaz:
At wat cost...they perpertually live in constant fear all theor lives...always watching their backs. If you get the war u want...then u would know how foolish it was to be manililated by some selfish profit making warmongers

You mean at what cost?
First ask yourself
What is the price for been the victim:Monumental proportion, massive genocide, destruction and death.

What is the cost of attacking back and reprisal: Destruction of the Islamic fulani idiots which would reduce the attacks, off course casualties are inevitable but it won't be in such large scale.

TonyeBarcanista:
The same man wey open the gate of hell for APC yet them win election.
All these apostates

This is a lie, stop mixing propaganda with commonsense.

TonyeBarcanista:
Your Oyedepo is even ashamed of the statement. he has started preaching peace, you are here spilling badderash


“If there has been anything done, it has been prayer for peace and unity of Nigeria"- Oyedepo

i really don't think Oyedepo is ashamed of his statement. It's a question of context and timing. Oyedepo didn't tell people to go around killing boko haram members, it's a self defense thing. You can be sure other pastors like Kumuyi, Adeboye, the pope and even your pastor practice it even if they don't say it. They all have security in place and would not watch helplessly if attacked. Christ is not against self defense against criminal elements and senseless terrorists. If you can't defend, you run. There's nothing holy about being killed for nothing.

Those whk would start the war would be the ones to dialogue it out to an end when lots of inmocent lives would have been lost...war mongers promote violence for thier gains, they are the safest and would ultimately be the winner if we dont curb these excesses from its root cause

bezimo:


You mean at what cost?
First ask yourself
What is the price for been the victim:Monumental proportion, massive genocide, destruction and death.

What is the cost of attacking back and reprisal: Destruction of the Islamic fulani idiots which would reduce the attacks, off course casualties are inevitable but it won't be in such large scale.