This is from a thread made Ages ago in the political section by Manmustwac about a problem that I think has a strong basis the spiritual corruption in Africa. I wrote the following. I am curious to hear any feedback on the idea.

A Thought:

It is a known fact of economics that when an economy/culture is blossoming it attracts labour (ie human resources) while a shrinking economy exports labour. This is true whether the means is by wilful migration or by Forced migration (slavery). When we consider the fact that Africa has been exporting labour for over 500 years at a rate that I don't think any other continent has experienced historically then I think that would suggest that in Africa we've got nothing going on.

Okay even if we accept the despicable practice of enslaving other humans. imagine an african king that has been approached by european slave traders. They want 10, 000 human slaves for their economy. Which kind of economy is prepared to lose 10, 000 of it's labour force, amongst whom are probably some geniuses of various fields of endeavour. If our Kings and chiefs were correct people with a vision for their nations they would balk. Afterall presumably they would have projects of their own for which they would need all that labour. Perhaps roads need building, or farms need irrigating and crops planted and harvested.

My explanation for the scale of the slave trade is that there was absolutely no vision in Africa. Our leaders had no ambition. Therefore no need for labour to implement the vision. The problem is a cultural one. And a Spiritual one. The dearth of vision ( a situation still prevalent today) suggests that there is something wrong with the African at a cultural and psychological level. As much as we like to give lip service to our culture the fact remains that a lot of african people are terribly uncultured. Without a cultural foundation to give direction and context to our lives we are just blowing in the wind, or as Baba Kuti so aptly put, we just dey roll like one yeye ball wey one yeye wind dey blow from one yeye corner.

In contrast European society has ideals that give their culture impetus (even though these ideals are starting to unravel under the influence of modern capitalism). If we don't have any ideals of our own then maybe we are better off borrowing the ideals of another or even allowing those who have ideals to kuku take over the reins of government.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=125328.msg2132143#msg2132143

When Indian people come to England or any European country, they build and open Temples or shrines. When Chinese people come to England or any European country they build and open Temples or shrines; But when African people come to England or any European they build Churches and worship the images of their former slave masters. The Indians and Chinese have unity amongst themselves , they also have a good economy , Chinese is going to be the next super power ,forget America. These countries India and China have also gone nuclear , they worship their own images (their ancestors) who work for them. The Europeans have religion, however, it does not stop them from working together. They have european union (which is the european community = common unity). But black africans are still fighting and arguing over a religion that does not belong to them. Many Nigerians for example will not work with you if you have a different religion. It was many years ago that Bob Marley sang emancipate ourselves from mental slavery , yet our people are still mentally enslaved. We are the only species on earth that will side another species against their own. You will not see a Chinese person side with a Hindu against another Chinese, neither will you see an Hindu side with a Chinese against another Hindu. You will not see a Cat side with a dog against another cat, neither will you see a dog side with a cat against another dog. You will not see a rat side with a cat against another rat, neither will you see a cat side with a rat against another cat. We black are the only species on the planet that will side with another species, be it Asian, Caucasian or Arab against their own. When will we realize we have been tricked with these monothetic religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity?

Nice thread. . . . The problem with the black man is that he is. . . hmmmmm. . .I just don't really know what to say. . .Our problems are just too much. . .Our biggest problem is not corruption or lack of rule of law. . .Our biggest problem is lack of vision and our collective[i] sit down and look[/i] mentality. .These things are killing us more than anything. . . .

Horus:

When Indian people come to England or any European country, they build and open Temples or shrines. When Chinese people come to England or any European country they build and open Temples or shrines; But when African people come to England or any European they build Churches and worship the images of their former slave masters. The Indians and Chinese have unity amongst themselves , they also have a good economy , Chinese is going to be the next super power ,forget America. These countries India and China have also gone nuclear , they worship their own images (their ancestors) who work for them. The Europeans have religion, however, it does not stop them from working together. They have european union (which is the european community = common unity). But black africans are still fighting and arguing over a religion that does not belong to them. Many Nigerians for example will not work with you if you have a different religion. It was many years ago that Bob Marley sang emancipate ourselves from mental slavery , yet our people are still mentally enslaved. We are the only species on earth that will side another species against their own. You will not see a Chinese person side with a Hindu against another Chinese, neither will you see an Hindu side with a Chinese against another Hindu. You will not see a Cat side with a dog against another cat, neither will you see a dog side with a cat against another dog. You will not see a rat side with a cat against another rat, neither will you see a cat side with a rat against another cat. We black are the only species on the planet that will side with another species, be it Asian, Caucasian or Arab against their own. When will we realize we have been tricked with these monothetic religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity?

This post is indeed very true. . . . .

@ Horus

Spot On  !

Seems like Africans Are the biggest copy cats on the planet, we adhere and copy everyone else's cultures and traditions while belittling our own heritage as people whose ancestors were the original inhabtants of the Earth. Science and religion believe all life and civilization began on the African continent yet your own people will almost murder you in an effort to defend the white man's Christianity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL2i9s-3rOs or the Arab's Islamic religions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yaVcKAWccU, The two most prolific culprits of African Slavery, as they continue to despoil and pillage our continent

Every society picks up social practices from other societies. as to slave trade, their myopic view of the world is owed to religion and the dark belief system.

Good post,horus.I watch on nairaland, with chagrin, how nigerians defend other races' religions and culture as if their lives depend on them.If given a chance, they will even slaughter each other on behalf of those religions.
Black africans are nothing but non-thinking automatons that cannot and will not think for themselves, i am so sorry to say this with such bluntness.As long as there are others who will volunteer to think for them, they will worship the very ground that those people thread on and praise them or their gods for services rendered.
It is no surprise that we display no ability of foresight and vision, because we have none.It is not encoded in our genetic make up.
I think we should just accept the way we are and learn to live as best as we can with the littleness that we are, afterall these religions are just too happy to keep reminding us just how little, wretched and helpless we are without these foreign gods.It is hard, but what else can we do?
Somebody deliver us from this mental enslavement because we don't seem to have a chance in hell of freeing ourselves on our own.

Horus:

When Indian people come to England or any European country, they build and open Temples or shrines. When Chinese people come to England or any European country they build and open Temples or shrines; But when African people come to England or any European they build Churches and worship the images of their former slave masters. The Indians and Chinese have unity amongst themselves , they also have a good economy , Chinese is going to be the next super power ,forget America. These countries India and China have also gone nuclear , they worship their own images (their ancestors) who work for them. The Europeans have religion, however, it does not stop them from working together. They have european union (which is the european community = common unity). But black africans are still fighting and arguing over a religion that does not belong to them. Many Nigerians for example will not work with you if you have a different religion. It was many years ago that Bob Marley sang emancipate ourselves from mental slavery , yet our people are still mentally enslaved. We are the only species on earth that will side another species against their own. You will not see a Chinese person side with a Hindu against another Chinese, neither will you see an Hindu side with a Chinese against another Hindu. You will not see a Cat side with a dog against another cat, neither will you see a dog side with a cat against another dog. You will not see a rat side with a cat against another rat, neither will you see a cat side with a rat against another cat. We black are the only species on the planet that will side with another species, be it Asian, Caucasian or Arab against their own. When will we realize we have been tricked with these monothetic religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity?

Horus:

When Indian people come to England or any European country, they build and open Temples or shrines. When Chinese people come to England or any European country they build and open Temples or shrines; But when African people come to England or any European they build Churches and worship the images of their former slave masters. The Indians and Chinese have unity amongst themselves , they also have a good economy , Chinese is going to be the next super power ,forget America. These countries India and China have also gone nuclear , they worship their own images (their ancestors) who work for them. The Europeans have religion, however, it does not stop them from working together. They have european union (which is the european community = common unity). But black africans are still fighting and arguing over a religion that does not belong to them. Many Nigerians for example will not work with you if you have a different religion. It was many years ago that Bob Marley sang emancipate ourselves from mental slavery , yet our people are still mentally enslaved. We are the only species on earth that will side another species against their own. You will not see a Chinese person side with a Hindu against another Chinese, neither will you see an Hindu side with a Chinese against another Hindu. You will not see a Cat side with a dog against another cat, neither will you see a dog side with a cat against another dog. You will not see a rat side with a cat against another rat, neither will you see a cat side with a rat against another cat. We black are the only species on the planet that will side with another species, be it Asian, Caucasian or Arab against their own. When will we realize we have been tricked with these monothetic religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity?

this is simply RIDICULOUS . . . .what has the differences or similarities in religious/spiritual beliefs got to do with success or failure? what is the connection between a vision (for an individual or nation) and its religious beliefs?. . . . . . .there is NO sense in the above post.

Pastor AIO:

  This is from a thread made Ages ago in the political section by Manmustwac about a problem that I think has a strong basis the spiritual corruption in Africa.  I wrote the following.  I am curious to hear any feedback on the idea.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=125328.msg2132143#msg2132143

I dont see anything in what manmustwac has said as posted in the OP that suggests that africa suffers from spiritual bankruptcy 
All that was mentioned was a lack of foresight/vision on the part of those who held powerful positions in the continent. what has that got to do with religion/spiritual beliefs? 

jagunlabi:

Good post,horus.I watch on nairaland, with chagrin, how nigerians defend other races' religions and culture as if their lives depend on them.If given a chance, they will even slaughter each other on behalf of those religions.
Black africans are nothing but non-thinking automatons that cannot and will not think for themselves, i am so sorry to say this with such bluntness.As long as there are others who will volunteer to think for them, they will worship the very ground that those people thread on and praise them or their gods for services rendered.
It is no surprise that we display no ability of foresight and vision, because we have none.It is not encoded in our genetic make up.
I think we should just accept the way we are and learn to live as best as we can with the littleness that we are, afterall these religions are just too happy to keep reminding us just how little, wretched and helpless we are without these foreign gods.It is hard, but what else can we do?
Somebody deliver us from this mental enslavement because we don't seem to have a chance in hell of freeing ourselves on our own.

Your statement is sad but true. Our collective inability to challenge the system as we see it is our greatest problem collectively as a continent lack of vision as pointed out by others and the mediocracy remains our greatest albatross.

*singing* Daffidi. . . Noeli. . . make una dey worship white man im god o, make una dey worship israel im ifa o, make una dey shout, dey shout, dey shout say na dem o. . .

Deep Sight:

*singing* Daffidi. . . Noeli. . . make una dey worship white man im god o, make una dey worship israel im ifa o, make una dey shout, dey shout, dey shout say na dem o. . .

Amen Halleluia Amen!!

Fela don talk am like 2 decades ago. . . Archbishop na miliki, pope na gbaladun, Imamu na enjoyment. . . My people. . dem go carry all dem money. . dem go Ju ba pope, Dem go ju ba bishop, dem go ju ba imam. .  dem go start to yab themselves. . .inspiritu hevinus. . .alahu akbar sieuesdhwishsb shjsuskisjs
 

noetic15:

I dont see anything in what manmustwac has said as posted in the OP that suggests that africa suffers from spiritual bankruptcy 
All that was mentioned was a lack of foresight/vision on the part of those who held powerful positions in the continent. what has that got to do with religion/spiritual beliefs? 

What has lack of vision got to do with spiritual beliefs? Perhaps you need to think about this a little bit more before you comment.

Manmustwac didn't say anything about spiritual bankruptcy, I did.

I want to add that the quote in the OP is not specifically talking about christianity or Islam that came into africa from abroad.

Horus:

When Indian people come to England or any European country, they build and open Temples or shrines. When Chinese people come to England or any European country they build and open Temples or shrines; But when African people come to England or any European they build Churches and worship the images of their former slave masters. The Indians and Chinese have unity amongst themselves , they also have a good economy , Chinese is going to be the next super power ,forget America. These countries India and China have also gone nuclear , they worship their own images (their ancestors) who work for them. The Europeans have religion, however, it does not stop them from working together. They have european union (which is the european community = common unity). But black africans are still fighting and arguing over a religion that does not belong to them. Many Nigerians for example will not work with you if you have a different religion. It was many years ago that Bob Marley sang emancipate ourselves from mental slavery , yet our people are still mentally enslaved. We are the only species on earth that will side another species against their own. You will not see a Chinese person side with a Hindu against another Chinese, neither will you see an Hindu side with a Chinese against another Hindu. You will not see a Cat side with a dog against another cat, neither will you see a dog side with a cat against another dog. You will not see a rat side with a cat against another rat, neither will you see a cat side with a rat against another cat. We black are the only species on the planet that will side with another species, be it Asian, Caucasian or Arab against their own. When will we realize we have been tricked with these monothetic religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity?

When the slave trade started neither christianity nor islam were established in africa but our indigenous religions were what were being practiced. So my reference to spiritual bankruptcy is as much an indictment of our practice of indigenous religions.

Again, here, I'm not talking about the ostensibly forms of the religion that people profess but rather a more subtle spiritual process that seems lacking in african spiritual practices regardless of the religion.

I think the spiritual bankruptcy can be traced back to the fundermental lack of belief in our own individual ability and Godgiving power to effect a positive change in our world without looking outside of ourselves for assistance.The basic difference between the black africans and the western world is just that, the firm belief in self to effect whatever changes that are necessary to make life easier to live.It is a great advantage of which the spiritual significance is greatly underrated.Because we create from within, which means that the way we are being, or what we have become from within is always mirrored by the external physical world that we live in.
This fundermental lack of belief in ourselves has been there since the early ancient times of our forefathers who continually solicited the assistances of gods and spirits and whatnots to do the most basic of things.
The white race saw this traits in us when they first came in contact with us and saw the advantage that that could bring to them, so they introduced a more "advanced" religion and culture to further pin our forefathers(who were already pinned down by their own cultures and religions) and their future generations down further down the timeline.
Not to be able to have faith in oneself to effect positive changes in one's own environment in which one's life depends upon is a deep deep spiritual flaw.And we continue to pay the price for that flaw till today.The deplorable state of africa is the result of that flaw.

Pastor - what say you about the fact that traditional africans are noticeably more chaste and conservative than most caucasians - the debauchery and decadence of those societies as regards family and sexual values cannot be denied?

Deep Sight:

Pastor - what say you about the fact that traditional africans are noticeably more chaste and conservative than most caucasians - the debauchery and decadence of those societies as regards family and sexual values cannot be denied?

IMO Africans are just as promiscuous, if not more. I don't buy that ^^

Krayola:

IMO Africans are just as promiscuous,  if not more. I don't buy that ^^

it's funny how we Africans like to act as if we didn't practice slavery, or have a thing for killing twins, female circumcision and throwing folks in the "evil" forest.

hey it never happened, we were all singing holiday carols and living the good communal life.  This isn't to say Africans were barbaric but we weren't saints either.

bawomolo:

it's funny how we Africans like to act as if we didn't practice slavery, or have a thing for killing twins, female circumcision and throwing folks in the "evil" forest.

hey it never happened, we were all singing holiday carols and living the good life. This isn't to say Africans were barbaric but we weren't saints either.

why are you taking snide shots at igbo people like that

C2H5OH:

why are you taking snide shots at igbo people like that

Banom and Aloy-Emeka must not see ur post

C2H5OH:

      why are you taking snide shots at igbo people like that 

how is that tantamount to taking snide shots at igbos. . .get real that statement is as general as IBB.

rhymz:

how is that tantamount to taking snide shots at igbos. . .get real that statement is as general as IBB.

  not from my viewing lens.
relax. you must be igbo. you should have a problem with the original poster for being crafty. not me.
and i quote, "evil forest" and "killing twins". i think we can both draw a parallel from those specifics.

Una wan take style style derail my thread.  

Deep Sight:

Pastor - what say you about the fact that traditional africans are noticeably more chaste and conservative than most caucasians - the debauchery and decadence of those societies as regards family and sexual values cannot be denied?

I've not noticed anything of the sort.  Anyway, it is not what I wanted to discuss when I started this thread.  I am interested in our lack of ORIentation.  Life without direction.  Society with no lodestar.


Me, I think that our confusion started way before the white men came, Long before the white men from the west and their bible, and long before the white men from the east with their quran.  I also don't think that a proper investigation has been made into the dynamics of the forces that led us down this dark path.

C2H5OH:

  not from my viewing lens.
relax. you must be igbo. you should have a problem with the original poster for being crafty. not me.
and i quote, "evil forest" and "killing twins". i think we can both draw a parallel from those specifics.

hey, please scram with your tribal igbo baiting antics.

( I hope this isn't a mistake and I make you do the opposite just to get up my nose).

keep your gun in its holster, pastor.  the better threads on the politics section are usually imbued with tribalism anyway.
no need to be up in arms if your blows up in flames and heads in that direction.

don't crucify a man for calling a spade a spade. 

C2H5
It is U who needs to relax.I am igbo,Yes but I don't see anything that indicts the igbo race alone in that post.Killing of twins and evil forest are not perculiar with igbos,virtually every race and tribe in Africa did such at a point in time in history.So let's not derail the thread with unneccessary idiosyncrasies.

well i believe that religion has a role to play in our spiritual bankruptcy because the masses have resigned themselves to fate and believe that only god can solve africa's problems. Faith and the motivational messages from our pastors give the masses the strengh to endure their suffering and makes them think of the next life in Heaven.

Ohh rhmyz, okay you are Igbo.  I am very relaxed.  Perhaps you misunderstood me.  Allow me to reiterate that I made no comment suggesting that the Igbo race alone was indicted in that post.  My comment was specific to the ritual killing of twin babies as it correlates with the practices of the Osu Igbo in Nigeria.
Perchance you would allow me to explicate and substantiate my comment further - in case it is not yet clear enough, although I'm sure you already grasped my meaning.
The first thought that flushed into my brain upon the poster's mention of "killing twins" and "evil forest" was of course the backwards, asinine ancient Igbo practice of old.  I'll go off on a limb and say that's his most familiar example, as it is mine.
We're better off educating our youths on these issues.  Those who have no knowledge of its prevalence in Igbo-past now do after reading those posts.  

Moreover, the post was made cheeky and wasn't meant to be scrutinized as heavily as it has been.  Those of you who were up in arms about it must have been looking for a reason to diverge from the focus of the thread.


Without further side-tracking, let's get back to discussing the topic of Africa's "Spiritual" Bankc . . .

And of course those things sound silly to me. Imagine me an athiest hearing from friends and relatives back home that only god can save our country The masses are waiting for an old white jewish man who dosen't even exist to come down from the sky and colonize the country Until them they will continue to be suffering and smiling because they know they'll spend eternity in thier imaginary heaven when they die. Meanwhile thier religious leaders will continue to loot billions while they stand and look.

manmustwac:

And of course those things sound silly to me. Imagine me an athiest hearing from friends and relatives back home that only god can save our country The masses are waiting for an old white jewish man who dosen't even exist to come down from the sky and colonize the country Until them they will continue to be suffering and smiling because they know they'll spend eternity in thier imaginary heaven when they die. Meanwhile thier religious leaders will continue to loot billions while they stand and look.

But this wasn't the case 400 years ago. Most africans hadn't even heard of a white jewish man in the sky, yet the decadence was there.

manmustwac:

well[b] i believe that religion has a role to play in our spiritual bankruptcy[/b] because the masses have resigned themselves to fate and believe that only god can solve africa's problems. Faith and the motivational messages from our pastors give the masses the strengh to endure their suffering and makes them think of the next life in Heaven.

is this not a meaningless self-contradiction? is religion and spirituality not interconnected?
u cannot however place the failure of visionary leadership at the feet of religion alone in africa. . . . , are all africans religious people? are there not more religious people in america than in nigeria?

@Poster
I don't think it's right to say that africans are spiritually bankrupt.
If we were to go by the definition of Spirituality which is the quality of being concerned with religion or the human spirit,you will clearly and undoubtedly agree with me that Africans are not lacking in those.Instead,I will say our obsession with religion and spirits has led us to mental colonialism entrapment,laziness and paranoi.Let me quote this saying by an atheist which aptly lends credence to my arguement,he says and I quote: "The problem with religion is that it makes people believe en masse LIES an Id!ot will not believe in his deranged seclusion".Africans have been actively practising religion even before the advent of slavery and the whiteman.We were acceptive of their religion not because we were spiritually bankrupt and were susceptible to anything that took the resemblance of religion.Rather,it was because the whiteman's religion didn't only have economic values(social works of the missionaries like building of schools etc) but it also came with very simple ideologies that were not only practicable,simple and to a large extent superior(as its economic values were evident through the missionaries)but also an exact opposite of our own heterogeneous religions and practice.However,like the saying goes,"even in freeland nothing is free" as the white man immediatly capitalized on religion to change our mentality,cultural values and even question our intelligence.They did this through what we call western education occassioned by religion,they rearranged our minds,confused those of us that tried to pick holes in this "new religion" and then started bastardizing our concepts of good and bad.They associated it with colours-White is good,saintly,angelic & pure while Black is bad,evil,demonic and corrupt-as if that wasn't enough,they went further to give a human face to these concepts-Jesus the son of God was white,angels where white in white robes and shiny white glows while the Devil and his host of demons were black horned scary beasts in hell burning to ashes and black.One of the reasons I left the roman catholic was because of this same deliberate systematic brainwashing that I noticed there,Jesus was white and so were all the other saints,orders came from the vertican and ppl followed them like zombies without any questioning.It was like the Black race never existed during time of Jesus even the bible and quran say little or nothing about the black race all these proved to me that the black man has no place in these religions except it was systematically designed to mentally colonize us and keep us tamed and subservient to thier whims and caprices.
I remember having an arguement about the concept of eternity as espoused by the bible which was totally different 4rm the quaran,it was an eye opener but I wont want to go into that now maybe I will do that in another thread or post.
But in conclusion,what I am trying to say is that our obsession with religion and spirits led to colonialism which today has trascended from just slavery to mental colonialsm which to me is even worse than slavery.Infact if Africans were less obsessed with religion,maybe this mental entrapment occassioned by religion would not have been as brazenly possible as it is now.
rhymz

C2H5OH:

Ohh rhmyz, okay you are Igbo.  I am  very relaxed.  Perhaps you misunderstood me.  Allow me to reiterate that I made no comment suggesting that the Igbo race alone was indicted in that post.  My comment was specific to the ritual killing of twin babies as it correlates with the practices of the Osu Igbo in Nigeria.
Perchance you would allow me to explicate and substantiate my comment further - in case it is not yet clear enough, although I'm sure you already grasped my meaning.
The first thought that flushed into my brain upon the poster's mention of "killing twins" and "evil forest" was of course the backwards, asinine ancient Igbo practice of old.  I'll go off on a limb and say that's his most familiar example, as it is mine.
We're better off educating our youths on these issues.  Those who have no knowledge of its prevalence in Igbo-past now do after reading those posts.  

Moreover, the post was made cheeky and wasn't meant to be scrutinized as heavily as it has been.  Those of you who were up in arms about it must have been looking for a reason to diverge from the focus of the thread.


Without further side-tracking, let's get back to discussing the topic of Africa's "Spiritual" Bankc . . .

I understand U very well my friend but like I said those were not perculiarly igbo cultures,I can give U examples of where those were also practised too but I don't want to deral the thread.

manmustwac:

well i believe that religion has a role to play in our spiritual bankruptcy because the masses have resigned themselves to fate and believe that only god can solve africa's problems. Faith and the motivational messages from our pastors give the masses the strengh to endure their suffering and makes them think of the next life in Heaven.

obviously I draw a distinction between religion and spiritual well being. But the above is flawed if the fault is placed solely at the feet of religion. There have been many civilizations in history that were highly religious and yet are noted for their great achievements and contributions to the human legacy. There have been societies that had a totally fatalistic religion and yet have excelled in their endeavours. The ancient babylonians lived in a fatalistic religious society etc.

Again I feel that it would be a mistake to look at religion superficially and blame it for all kinds of ills. The problems are a lot more subtle than that.