ApexTitan:

ttmacoy is doing justice to that thread already.

You still haven't addressed any of the areas in the comment I made which you quoted. How do you explain all the denials and detentions prior to 2017?

There were detentions and denials but not at this rate. What is happening now is a spillover effect of Trump's initial travel ban. Just like You have had a rise in hate crimes since Trump has been elected into office the same thing is going on with immigration. Its one of the multiplier effects of policies passed at the top. Thats why leadership matters a lot especially executive leadership because the higher you are the bigger the impact you have whether intended or unintended. You have heard of the law of unintended consequences right?

Show me the number that prove the rate is higher? I haven't seen any numbers that proves this except people are highlighting it more now due to the Trump rhetoric.

Obama in fact deported a higher number of people than previous administrations but there was no noise because he didn't have the rhetoric Trump brought with him. As things stand even if Trump deports 1 person a year there will be backlash saying he is targeting people simply for the negative rhetoric with which he campaigned. Show me numbers from a reputable source showing there are higher numbers of Nigerians being turned back.

davidif:


There were detentions and denials but not at this rate. What is happening now is a spillover effect of Trump's initial travel ban. Just like You have had a rise in hate crimes since Trump has been elected into office the same thing is going on with immigration. Its one of the multiplier effects of policies passed at the top. Thats why leadership matters a lot especially executive leadership because the higher you are the bigger the impact you have whether intended or unintended. You have heard of the law of unintended consequences right?

ttmacoy:
Show me the number that prove the rate is higher? I haven't seen any numbers that proves this except people are highlighting it more now due to the Trump rhetoric.

Obama in fact deported a higher number of people than previous administrations but there was no noise because he didn't have the rhetoric Trump brought with him. As things stand even if Trump deports 1 person a year there will be backlash saying he is targeting people simply for the negative rhetoric with which he campaigned. Show me numbers from a reputable source showing there are higher numbers of Nigerians being turned back.

Hahajajaha talk about sticking your head in the sand. So you are telling me that Obama deported more people than Trump in his first 58 days? Get outta here boi. Goodness gracious! You Trump surrogates would do anything to defend your overlord.

Now trump has deported more in 58 days lol again show me the numbers that proves your statement.

Because I ask for proof and facts before jumping on your narrative means I have my head in the sand. If that is what it means then I would rather have my head in the same until I have facts and make my own mind than jump on the popularity narrative with no proof nothing.

davidif:


Hahajajaha talk about sticking your head in the sand. So you are telling me that Obama deported more people than Trump in his first 58 days? Get outta here boi. Goodness gracious! You Trump surrogates would do anything to defend your overlord.

ttmacoy:
yes oh how you dey ?

What do you mean denials and detentions prior to 2017?

Sorry that question was directed at davidif. Up until now the impression he had been giving was that people were not denied or detained at the POE by border officials in the past, that this all started because of Trump. Right now he has changed his position saying the rate of denials has increased. We will wait for him to provide specifics on how this rate has supposedly increased.

Trump is a controversial figure and that's without a doubt. What has been playing out in the leftist bent mainstream media is a sad comedy where every one of his actions is presented by them as actions of victimisation or abuse. Much of their outcry is unwarranted, baseless or purely sensational like this "Trump is targeting Nigerians" narrative. Like any country, the US reserves the right to place conditions on people who wish to enter through its borders. The US has had forms of travel bans in the past even under Obama. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/01/21/united-states-begins-implementation-changes-visa-waiver-program Nobody said anything then.

ApexTitan:


Sorry that question was directed at davidif. Up until now the impression he had been giving was that people were not denied or detained at the POE by border officials in the past, that this all started because of Trump. Right now he has changed his position saying the rate of denials has increased. We will wait for him to provide specifics on how this rate has supposedly increased.

Trump is a controversial figure and that's without a doubt. What has been playing out in the leftist bent mainstream media is a sad comedy where every one of his actions is presented by them as actions of victimisation or abuse. Much of their outcry is unwarranted, baseless or purely sensational like this "Trump is targeting Nigerians" narrative. Like any country, the US reserves the right to place conditions on people who wish to enter through its borders. The US has had forms of travel bans in the past even under Obama. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/01/21/united-states-begins-implementation-changes-visa-waiver-program Nobody said anything then.

Maybe i didn't state my initial thesis clearly so i will be clear this time. There are more deportations now in the Trump administration than there were in the Obama administration at this juncture in the Obama administration because the Trump administration has made it a priority and they have expanded the criteria for deportation and detention giving immigration officials more discretion than before. To execute this massive operation there are more immigration enforcement officials and border patrol agents and this guys have been given broader powers and expanded criteria required for deportation.
So while Trump's travel ban has been struck down as illegal, the deportations have continued at a much higher pace than they were at this time than any previous administration (including Obama's)

What is happening in the airports now is a spillover effect of Trump's initial travel ban. Just like You have had a rise in hate crimes since Trump has been elected into office the same thing is going on with detentions at airports and refusals. This is one of the multiplier effects of policies passed at the top. That's why leadership matters a lot, especially executive leadership because the higher you are the bigger the impact you have downstream; intended or unintended. You have heard of the law of unintended consequences right?

Here's how Trump trashed Obama's deportation policy
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/heres-how-trump-trashed-obamas-deportation-policy/article/2613015

Immigration Agents Discover New Freedom to Deport Under Trump
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/25/us/ice-immigrant-deportations-trump.html?_r=0

davidif:


Maybe i didn't state my initial thesis clearly so i will be clear this time. There are more deportations now in the Trump administration than there were in the Obama administration at this juncture in the Obama administration because the Trump administration has made it a priority and they have expanded the criteria for deportation and detention giving immigration officials more discretion than before. To execute this massive operation there are more immigration enforcement officials and border patrol agents and this guys have been given broader powers and expanded criteria required for deportation.
So while Trump's travel ban has been struck down as illegal, the deportations have continued at a much higher pace than they were at this time than any previous administration (including Obama's)

What is happening in the airports now is a spillover effect of Trump's initial travel ban. Just like You have had a rise in hate crimes since Trump has been elected into office the same thing is going on with detentions at airports and refusals. This is one of the multiplier effects of policies passed at the top. That's why leadership matters a lot, especially executive leadership because the higher you are the bigger the impact you have downstream; intended or unintended. You have heard of the law of unintended consequences right?

Here's how Trump trashed Obama's deportation policy
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/heres-how-trump-trashed-obamas-deportation-policy/article/2613015

Immigration Agents Discover New Freedom to Deport Under Trump
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/25/us/ice-immigrant-deportations-trump.html?_r=0

Thank you for clearly stating your position. In the same vein, please provide evidence of the claimed increase in deportations so that we can all analyse to determine if there is indeed a targeting of Nigerians or Africans which has been the point of this thread. I maintain that the hues and cries of so-called unfair deportations are so far the product of political bodies and the media that are still smacking from defeat at the last November 8 polls. Trump’s executive order aims to deal with immigrants and aliens who are in or seek to enter the US via dubious means and those whose intents threatened the security of the US, something the previous administration had taken a milder stance on. That’s one of the reasons many Americans voted for Trump and a prerogative of the US as a country. Nigerians with legitimate reasons and who have met the stipulations for travel to the US have nothing to fear.

ApexTitan:


Thank you for clearly stating your position. In the same vein, please provide evidence of the claimed increase in deportations so that we can all analyse to determine if there is indeed a targeting of Nigerians or Africans which has been the point of this thread. I maintain that the hues and cries of so-called unfair deportations are so far the product of political bodies and the media that are still smacking from defeat at the last November 8 polls. Trump’s executive order aims to deal with immigrants and aliens who are in or seek to enter the US via dubious means and those whose intents threatened the security of the US, something the previous administration had taken a milder stance on. That’s one of the reasons many Americans voted for Trump and a prerogative of the US as a country. Nigerians with legitimate reasons and who have met the stipulations for travel to the US have nothing to fear.

Dude, you asked for evidence and i provided them to you or do you not know what evidence is?

If you want more, check this out.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/us/politics/dhs-immigration-trump.html

davidif:


Dude, you asked for evidence and i provided them to you or do you not know what evidence is?

If you want more, check this out.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/us/politics/dhs-immigration-trump.html

What you present as evidence does nothing to support the narrative that Nigerians are being targeted. They are all reports of the new and expanded scope of directives issued to border officials. As reported and included in your links the new mandate of the border agents is this: the detention and if warranted, the eventual removal from the US of those found to have violated immigration laws. "These include people convicted of fraud in any official matter before government and people who have abused any program relating to the receipt of public benefits." These are the types of people that previous administration turned a blind eye to and who the media is agitating for to remain in the US.

Why was I expecting figures to show those turned back or detained at the borders so we could compare with a previous date? Please lemme retire for the night.

ApexTitan:


What you present as evidence does nothing to support the narrative that Nigerians are being targeted. They are all reports of the new and expanded scope of directives issued to border officials. As reported and included in your links the new mandate of the border agents is this: the detention and if warranted, the eventual removal from the US of those found to have violated immigration laws. "These include people convicted of fraud in any official matter before government and people who have abused any program relating to the receipt of public benefits." These are the types of people that previous administration turned a blind eye to and who the media is agitating for to remain in the US.

Why was I expecting figures to show those turned back or detained at the borders so we could compare with a previous date? Please lemme retire for the night.

Maybe my explanations have not been clear enough but what I have been trying to tell you is that detentions and repatriations have been higher than usual because of Trump's direct policies and the unintended consequences of those policies. You do know about the law of unintended consequences right? Well If you dont, you can google it (also see collateral damage). What i am saying In essence is that many travellers are suffering from the 'spillover' effect of those initial policies and some of this people happen to be Nigerian not that they are targeting Nigerians specifically.

As for asking me about the data of the number of people who have been turned away at the airport, that's like asking me to produce a video footage of O.J Simpson killing his wife or else he is innocent. It's completely preposterous to the nth degree and with due respect, no one with common sense would say that. Also that data even if it is collected is most likely collected by airport security in the multiple airports across the country and even if homeland security decided to compile that list they are unlikely to release it to davidif.

Thanks bro, I am not saying Trump doesn't have an impact but we also have to apply logic rather than just conclude everything is Trump despite proof staring you in the face the summit may be suspect.

The bolded is totally true, and it is the same left wing media who trying to portray him as Hitler actually helped his election. The guy did not even spend much on adverts because the media blew everything up giving him free airtime. They are now in a position where even if he does the greatest job ever they are forced to criticise.

ApexTitan:


Sorry that question was directed at davidif. Up until now the impression he had been giving was that people were not denied or detained at the POE by border officials in the past, that this all started because of Trump. Right now he has changed his position saying the rate of denials has increased. We will wait for him to provide specifics on how this rate has supposedly increased.

Trump is a controversial figure and that's without a doubt. What has been playing out in the leftist bent mainstream media is a sad comedy where every one of his actions is presented by them as actions of victimisation or abuse. Much of their outcry is unwarranted, baseless or purely sensational like this "Trump is targeting Nigerians" narrative. Like any country, the US reserves the right to place conditions on people who wish to enter through its borders. The US has had forms of travel bans in the past even under Obama. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/01/21/united-states-begins-implementation-changes-visa-waiver-program Nobody said anything then.

ttmacoy:
Thanks bro, I am not saying Trump doesn't have an impact but we also have to apply logic rather than just conclude everything is Trump despite proof staring you in the face the summit may be suspect.

The bolded is totally true, and it is the same left wing media who trying to portray him as Hitler actually helped his election. The guy did not even spend much on adverts because the media blew everything up giving him free airtime. They are now in a position where even if he does the greatest job ever they are forced to criticise.

Criticizing trump doesn't equate hate because criticism comes with the job. He hasn't got half of what Obama got in critism. Tell me the kind of names people didn't call Obama ?. The bottom line is that trump is his own worst enemy. I still maintain that trump is a racist and history will judge him as such .

I'm not a big fan of Trump but I think saying he is racist is a stretch. Yes he said controversial things during the campaign and can be a silly irrational guy but I do not believe he is racist but as you say history will judge. I believe he used controversial statements to stir people up and get attention and it worked.

Yes Obama got a lot of criticism especially from republicans but Trump gets a lot more from both parties and the press through I agree mostly due to his statements.

My point is the left wing media with the current need to cry victim and hound people who they don't agree with out (you can see the trend where someone says something they don't like they will hound and hound till the person is fired from their job) has obviously backfired with Trump because even republicans didn't like him yet he won the party ticket and he can't be fired and he had money to finance himself. If the press hounded another candidate the way they hounded Trump with all he said the candidate would have dropped out long ago.

This is not an endorsement of Trump but I find abhorrent the left wing behaviour and as I mentioned in the earlier post they actually put him in office by blowing up every single statement he made giving him free airtime.

imagine a situation where Trump made his usual controversial statements and was ignored as an old senile fool, I can tell you he would not have won but the left wing press went on and on and on. look at the likes of the daily show now every single episode is trump said, trump did, trump didn't.

Having said all that I did not support Hilary either.

Lucasbalo:
Criticizing trump doesn't equate hate because criticism comes with the job. He hasn't got half of what Obama got in critism. Tell me the kind of names people didn't call Obama ?. The bottom line is that trump is his own worst enemy. I still maintain that trump is a racist and history will judge him as such .

ttmacoy:
I'm not a big fan of Trump but I think saying he is racist is a stretch. Yes he said controversial things during the campaign and can be a silly irrational guy but I do not believe he is racist but as you say history will judge. I believe he used controversial statements to stir people up and get attention and it worked.

Yes Obama got a lot of criticism especially from republicans but Trump gets a lot more from both parties and the press through I agree mostly due to his statements.

My point is the left wing media with the current need to cry victim and hound people who they don't agree with out (you can see the trend where someone says something they don't like they will hound and hound till the person is fired from their job) has obviously backfired with Trump because even republicans didn't like him yet he won the party ticket and he can't be fired and he had money to finance himself. If the press hounded another candidate the way they hounded Trump with all he said the candidate would have dropped out long ago.

This is not an endorsement of Trump but I find abhorrent the left wing behaviour and as I mentioned in the earlier post they actually put him in office by blowing up every single statement he made giving him free airtime.

imagine a situation where Trump made his usual controversial statements and was ignored as an old senile fool, I can tell you he would not have won but the left wing press went on and on and on. look at the likes of the daily show now every single episode is trump said, trump did, trump didn't.

Having said all that I did not support Hilary either.

You telling me trump is not a racist is a joke. I have so many instances of his racism and I will give you some because of space limit. Google Central Park Five and see about his open racism against 4 young black men and a teenage Latino guy who was wrongly convicted of rape and murder which they were later acquitted due to DNA. Up till today, trump is still advocating death penalty for the guys even though the guys were set free and compensated with several millions $ settlements. His birther garbage against Obama is classic text book racism according to republican speaker Ryan. He was fined millions of $ for not renting apartments to blacks in Queens, NY. Calling Mexicans rapists and drug dealers is not racism in your book. I have known of trump and his bigotry for over 30 years and for us who grew up here, his bigotry is not new to us. Where were people like you when Republicons were accusing Bill Clinton of murder of Vince Foster in Arkansas? Where were people like you when Obama was being called monkey and a boy by Republicons ?. We were people like you when trump was telling everyone here that Obama was born in Kenya . Please give me a break. Trump is an overt racist and nothing you say can wash away his bigotry.

.

ApexTitan:


Sorry that question was directed at davidif. Up until now the impression he had been giving was that people were not denied or detained at the POE by border officials in the past, that this all started because of Trump. Right now he has changed his position saying the rate of denials has increased. We will wait for him to provide specifics on how this rate has supposedly increased.

Trump is a controversial figure and that's without a doubt. What has been playing out in the leftist bent mainstream media is a sad comedy where every one of his actions is presented by them as actions of victimisation or abuse. Much of their outcry is unwarranted, baseless or purely sensational like this "Trump is targeting Nigerians" narrative. Like any country, the US reserves the right to place conditions on people who wish to enter through its borders. The US has had forms of travel bans in the past even under Obama. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/01/21/united-states-begins-implementation-changes-visa-waiver-program Nobody said anything then.

Maybe i didn't state my initial thesis clearly so i will be clear this time. There are more deportations now in the Trump administration than there were in the Obama administration at this juncture in the Obama administration because the Trump administration has made it a priority and they have expanded the criteria for deportation and detention giving immigration officials more discretion than before. To execute this massive operation there are more immigration enforcement officials and border patrol agents and this guys have been given broader powers and expanded criteria required for deportation.
So while Trump's travel ban has been struck down as illegal, the deportations have continued at a much higher pace than they were at this time than any previous administration (including Obama's)

What is happening in the airports now is a spillover effect of Trump's initial travel ban. Just like You have had a rise in hate crimes since Trump has been elected into office the same thing is going on with detentions at airports and refusals. This is one of the multiplier effects of policies passed at the top. That's why leadership matters a lot, especially executive leadership because the higher you are the bigger the impact you have downstream; intended or unintended. You have heard of the law of unintended consequences right?

davidif:


Maybe i didn't state my initial thesis clearly so i will be clear this time. There are more deportations now in the Trump administration than there were in the Obama administration at this juncture in the Obama administration because the Trump administration has made it a priority and they have expanded the criteria for deportation and detention giving immigration officials more discretion than before. To execute this massive operation there are more immigration enforcement officials and border patrol agents and this guys have been given broader powers and expanded criteria required for deportation.
So while Trump's travel ban has been struck down as illegal, the deportations have continued at a much higher pace than they were at this time than any previous administration (including Obama's)

What is happening in the airports now is a spillover effect of Trump's initial travel ban. Just like You have had a rise in hate crimes since Trump has been elected into office the same thing is going on with detentions at airports and refusals. This is one of the multiplier effects of policies passed at the top. That's why leadership matters a lot, especially executive leadership because the higher you are the bigger the impact you have downstream; intended or unintended. You have heard of the law of unintended consequences right?

I have no dog in this fight but you are absolutely right in that Trump sets his agenda as anti immigrant and xenophobic President. That's how he started his campaign and that's the main reason a lot of rural Whites voted for him. He's a xenophobe and racist and anyone that denies that is delusional. Listen to his speeches while running for President and you know where his mind his. Surprised that many people are still falling for his con game.

Lucasbalo:
I have no dog in this fight but you are absolutely right in that Trump sets his agenda as anti immigrant and xenophobic President. That's how he started his campaign and that's the main reason a lot of rural Whites voted for him. He's a xenophobe and racist and anyone that denies that he's one is delusional. Listen to his speeches while running for President and you know where his mind his. Surprised that many people are still falling for his con game.

Thank you o jare. The leader always sets the tone at the top and anything that flows downstream directly or indirectly affect all of us. Thats why an important quality of leadership is for one to show restraint.

davidif:


Thank you o jare. The leader always sets the tone at the top and anything that flows downstream indirectly affect all of us.

I don't know why people are not wising up to the con man named Trump. I am one of his harshest critics on Nairaland and I am not apologizing for that. I have known of his scam for over 30 years and of his racism too. Google CENTRAL PARK FIVE and see the kind of sleazeball Trump is. Our Nigerian brothers worshipping someone that doesn't give a fvck about them. If he's so hateful and prejudice against a very successful Obama what do our cousins in Nigeria will be to him ?.His wealth doesn't even excite me because he inherited most of that wealth when his father passed away over 30 years ago. I love self made multi billionaires like Bill Gates, Mark Zuckenberg, George Soros and the others who are 20 to 30 times richer than the loud mouth Trump. See what he did to scam thousands of people out of their money with the Fake and Unaccredited Trump University in which he had to pay $25 million to settle out of Court. Trump is a typical New York two bit hustler.