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I Am Very Sympathetic To Atheism - Chude Jideonwo - Religion - Nairaland

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I Am Very Sympathetic To Atheism - Chude Jideonwo by Sibe007(m): 9:04am On May 14, 2017
To be honest, I am very sympathetic to atheism, and especially agnosticism. Always have been. The major holy books are complicated, often contradictory. The interpretations, even more so. And worst, ridden with prejudice and manipulation, over many years.

It's actually a miracle that despite the hypocrisy and strife, that many of us manage to hang on tight - implausibly - to our faith. The more rational thing would be not to. Which of course is the point. Faith is fundamentally, for better or worse, irrational.

Which is why science-based apologia for faith is ridiculous at its base. You are trying, unnecessarily, to reconcile two opposed ideas.

Take one of the most vexing stories in the Bible for instance, on the 'Tower of Babel'. You'll find it in Gen 12:4-9. Interestingly, you'll find same story in the Qu'ran, but situated under Egypt/Moses in its own case.

Historically, its point is to trace a biblical background to multiplicity of languages. But theologically, the story has a didactic intent. Not surprisingly, since the writers of many a scripture insisted on simple morality tales. A very human temptation.

Men (and presumably women) came together to achieve something of worth: said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.”

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Re: I Am Very Sympathetic To Atheism - Chude Jideonwo by Sibe007(m): 9:05am On May 14, 2017
Then, according to the narrative, God came down to see what his creation was doing, and then theGod that created them oh, God threatened. "Indeed the people are one & have one language; this is what they begin to do; now nothing they propose to do will be

So he decided to confuse their language, so they dont understand one another & then scattered them all over the earth, so the building stops. Hmm. Very troublesome at this point. Before I even go to why this story, and especially it's interpretation, is troublesome.

First, is the fact that Genesis 10 already notes they humanity already had several languages, making Genesis 11 moot

But I have learnt not to nitpick. Like John 10 and 11 re Mary/oil sometimes the Bible's stories are not chronological chapter to chapter. More important is to ask: REALLY? God was so threatened by human accomplishment that he decided to limit it by causing confusion? Think not.

Since Rom 11:33 preaches: "the depth of the riches of the wisdom & knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, & untraceable His ways! Meaning: According to the same holy book, there was no way anything that man could fathom/create could reach the heights of the Bible's God

Then there is the obvious logical fallacy: We know now, something the authors of those times didn't know. That the earth is just one planet. in a universe of all kinds of spaces and realities. By the time Nimrod and his innovators finished reaching the skies they would have found that God wasnt in the clouds, God wasn't in the sky, and human structures couldn't be sustained up beyond a point on the earth

Science hadn't unveiled that at the time, 6,000 or so years ago. And. So the writers of that story didn't know that, But now we know that for a fact. And since God has always known everything, that means God knew this for a FACT.

So, how to account for this essentially troubled (to use an euphemism) narrative of God's intent? It's either 1. The writer mistold history. 2. The writer misinterpreted God's intent. Or 3. Someone hijacked an original narrative.

But in light of what we know for a simple, observable fact now. The morality of the story makes no sense. God is not in the sky. They didn't know we were just one planet in a vast universe. They thought the sky was all there was.

What does that tell us about taking the Bible literally? Or even about focusing man made moral paradigms into the mouth of God? How do you know the moral paradigm was man made? I present to you one of the influential writers on bible/Jewish history, Flavius Josephus

Josephus in his book, Antiquities of the Jews, makes it abundantly lay clear the agenda of those who gave us the story of Nimrod/Babel. According to him, Nimrod was a tyrant who tried to turn the people away from God. Nimrod excited them to "such an affront & contempt of God"

Correction by the story, story is in Gen 11:1-9

"He persuaded them not to ascribe it to God as if it were through his means they were happy, but to believe that it was their courage." But ask yourself, why would God be so angry that human beings were building skyscrapers, and then punish them because of that?

If that's the case, then where is the punishment for our skyscrapers of today, for our airplanes and our space ships? It makes no sense. Like plenty makes no sense if you try to force pre-science paradigms and morality takes into a 21st century world.

The simplicism of those who claim biblical inerrancy is that they ascribe man's failures to divine intent. Men make errors. They also confuse literal inerrancy with symbolic inerrancy. Men wrote the Bible. Men are fallible. Men are limited. God is limitless.

I for one don't confuse the term Word of God to mean just the Bible. The word of God is living and breathing, it encompasses pre and post bible revelation.

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Re: I Am Very Sympathetic To Atheism - Chude Jideonwo by Sibe007(m): 9:05am On May 14, 2017
Including the words the Holyspirit speaks to His children today. And will speak to them tomorrow, Of course before science, phenomena were explained by metaphysics. If something happened, they would retroactively credit to divine force.

Because there was no other frame of reference. Random events attribute to God, Satan, spirits. Even when it contradicted itself. Of course the danger of the Satan/God dualism brings problems of its own. But let's leave that one till another day.

So clearly, if something historical happened with Nimrod and Babel, someone trying to understand it forced a meaning on it. That meaning can no longer subsist in the light of what God has enabled man understnd through science. It need be discarded.

The theology supporting that is one of progressive revelation. God constantly reveals himself to man in the light of man's limited knowledge. In each dispensation. The tragedy of revelation is that while God attempts to introduce us to the limitlessness of his reality.

Humans insist on forcing him into the smallness of our cultures, language and superstitions. We cripple the power of his message. Whatever God was trying to reveal to those people, they limited by their simple morality and their insistence on same.

Also, literal belief that languages came from babel is what some call is pseudoscientific. The provable history of language makes that clear. That narrative Reduces simplicity of linguistic evolution to simple morality tale that satisfies humans. More importantly, it cheapens God.

Makes Him look small and threatened by man's wisdom. Afraid of man's creation. The same God that is unsearchable, according to same bible? If God was truly all-powerful, it would hardly matter whether people worked together or not. He wouldn't punish them for being innovative.

Whatever man achieved, He would be pleased by man's dominion of the earth. He would engage that shared reality to reconcile man to Him. When Jesus left this world, He didn't leave the world with a bible. Do we think he was foolish not to? He knew what he was doing.

He left the word with a simple message and simple faith, one of redemption and salvation. He spoke to those of His time in language. they could understnd, using symbols like Gehenna and Hades that they could relate with. The specific words He left them were specific to their context, to their culture, to the limits of their comprehension.

If Jesus showed up today, his language, his references, his symbols would be different. And guess what? He Does! Via the Holy spirit, If you allow people who want to manipulate and control you force 1st century moral paradigms into a world that exists differently today.
Re: I Am Very Sympathetic To Atheism - Chude Jideonwo by Sibe007(m): 9:06am On May 14, 2017
You make them rob you of the power and beauty of Jesus Christ's message. You allow your religion be defined by Clement and Augustine, rather than by Jesus. Romansis a beauty but Roman is the work of a passionate man of God trying to understand what Jesus was saying.

The same way Jesus could reveal his will to Paul through His spirit is the same way He can reveal it today. He is same yesterday and today. Early church fathers were human. They allowed Culture swallow tradition, despiteJesus warning them in Mark 7:13

That cultural understanding of the Bible, and mistaking the spiritual for the political is trap a new generation of Christians must avoid. We must admit that whatever we know of God today is limited by our human frailty and stop insisting that all we know is all there is to know.

Let's thank God for what His spirit reveals and we understand and pray for Hi, to reveal more to others as He has to us John 14:26

We must NOT insist that our moral codes today are same as God's living word. We must not limi the revelation others get to the ones we have. The same way we must not limit ourselves to the moral codes of the blessed, passionate human being who gave us the story of Babel.

Never ask yourself: what did God tell the Isrealites in 700 BC or 500 AD. As yourself, what is God telling me today? Ask yourself: How ca the Bible be a guide (not a rule book) for me to rightly divide the word of truth of what God says for my life TODAY?

And to answer that Jesus her said 'I will leave you a dead scroll', He said He would give you a living, breathing Holy Spirit. Oh what joy, wha bliss when you for, a deep, personal relationship with His Holy Spirit. He guides with love, with empathy, with passion.

Read Hebrews 4:15. Let me re-introduce you to Jesus! He is not the unloving, forbidiing headmaster marking your sins that prejudiced men insist he is. He is a loving father, whose mercies are renewed every morning. He pays attention to your life today, and gives solutions to your issues today. Emancipate yourself from institution religions that limit you, and misrepresent God to you.

Find him for yourself. Build a relationship with him for yourself. Learn about His love for yourself. His word belongs to YOU

In John 16:33 and John 15:11 Jesus promised peace and joy. Any faith that doesn't deliver this is not the faith of a Jesus. Stop allowing other men and women lie to you with the Bible. Find God for yourself. Drop the world's prejudices and stereotypes behind.
May God have mercy on all of us.

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