Angel196:


Oh really? That's why? Because the rest are hypocrites? Do you even know those the word was applied in the Quran? Hahaha, very funny. Do you know there is an entire chapter based on hypocrites?

So according to you, those terrorist who are Islamic, kill and bomb Muslims in the mosques be cause the Quran referred to them as hypocrites? Let me clear your misconceptions then.

This chapter is called THE HYPOCRITES.


Surah Al-Munafiqoon, Verse 1:
إِذَا جَاءَكَ الْمُنَافِقُونَ قَالُوا نَشْهَدُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُهُ وَاللَّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ لَكَاذِبُونَ

WHEN THE HYPOCRITES come unto thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed God's Apostle!" But God knows that thou art truly His Apostle; and He bears witness that the hypocrites are indeed false [in their declaration of faith].

Surah Al-Munafiqoon, Verse 2:
اتَّخَذُوا أَيْمَانَهُمْ جُنَّةً فَصَدُّوا عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ إِنَّهُمْ سَاءَ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ

They have made their oaths a cover [for their falseness], and thus they turn others away from the Path of God. Evil indeed is all that they are wont to do:


Surah Al-Munafiqoon, Verse 3:
ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ آمَنُوا ثُمَّ كَفَرُوا فَطُبِعَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ فَهُمْ لَا يَفْقَهُونَ

this, because [they profess that] they have attained to faith, whereas [inwardly] they deny the truth - and so, a seal has been set on their hearts so that they can no longer understand [what is true and what false].

Contrary to who or what you think hypocrites referred to in the Quran, the above chapter has clearified it. Hypocrites are those who claim to believe yet don't really believe but pretend in order to spy and turn people away from the religion.

So does that fit into the idea you have of those being boomed in the mosques as hypocrites?

Demmzy15:
As Salam Alaikum sis, I'll advise you to leave this people only. Nothing you'll tell them will be sufficient, believe me, I've done this years ago.

Stop being apologetic and state the facts, their religion is worse 10 times. So let voko'g take care of the issue himself. If a real discussion were to start, you'll see all of them fleeing because they're all cowards!

ilynem:

Err...Yes! Because the terrorists believe that if you were a true Muslim, you will take up arms and fight the non Muslims till they pay the Jizya with willing submission or turn into Muslims. If you were not a hypocrite, you will fight!
The message is clear. A hypocrite is one who claims to believe in Allah and his messages but doesn't act accordingly. Do not be friends with non Muslims. You have Muslim friends. Fight the unbelievers wherever you find them. You don't fight. Muhammad had the plan to chase all non Muslims out of the Arabia peninsula. You follow him don't you? How many @non Muslims have you chased out your land??
If I claim to be a Christian and I don't follow the teachings and life of Christ, what does that make me? A hypocrite.
Surah 9:73: Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell.
Notice the use of the word "and"?? It means the disbelievers are not the hypocrites. If you are a Muslim and you don't follow the instructions of the prophet to the latter, am sorry my sister! You are a hypocrite and that's why Boko boys will be after you too.

ilynem:

Err...Yes! Because the terrorists believe that if you were a true Muslim, you will take up arms and fight the non Muslims till they pay the Jizya with willing submission or turn into Muslims. If you were not a hypocrite, you will fight!
The message is clear. A hypocrite is one who claims to believe in Allah and his messages but doesn't act accordingly. Do not be friends with non Muslims. You have Muslim friends. Fight the unbelievers wherever you find them. You don't fight. Muhammad had the plan to chase all non Muslims out of the Arabia peninsula. You follow him don't you? How many non Muslims have you chased out your land??
If I claim to be a Christian and I don't follow the teachings and life of Christ, what does that make me? A hypocrite.
Surah 9:73: Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell.
Notice the use of the word "and"?? It means the disbelievers are not the hypocrites. If you are a Muslim and you don't follow the instructions of the prophet to the latter, am sorry my sister! You are a hypocrite and that's why Boko boys will be after you too.

Angel196:


Yes, there is difference between disbelievers and hypocrites. Hypocrites are those who claim to be believers but are really disbelievers in disguise, they plot against the prophet and drive people away from the religion, pay attention and please go over those verses I posted again and you will note the differences.

aminusanti:
ilynem, I thought we discussed already in large on these verses but you are here deliberately removing those verses out of their historic context..

Angel196:


This is going to be my last reply to you cause I'm sure, as that guy said, this is all just a waste of time.

Lol, seriously your comment had me laughing. It didn't say you just chase people out of your land but that you should chase them out from where they have chased you, that was the order and to answe that, I haven't chased anyone out of my land because they haven't chased me.


Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 191:
وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ ثَقِفْتُمُوهُمْ وَأَخْرِجُوهُم مِّنْ حَيْثُ أَخْرَجُوكُمْ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلَا تُقَاتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّىٰ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَاتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ كَذَٰلِكَ جَزَاءُ الْكَافِرِينَ

And slay them wherever you may come upon them, and drive them away from wherever they drove you away - for oppression is even worse than killing. And fight not against them near the Inviolable House of Worship unless they fight against you there first; but if they fight against you, slay them: such shall be the recompense of those who deny the truth.

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 192:
فَإِنِ انتَهَوْا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

But if they desist-behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 193:
وَقَاتِلُوهُمْ حَتَّىٰ لَا تَكُونَ فِتْنَةٌ وَيَكُونَ الدِّينُ لِلَّهِ فَإِنِ انتَهَوْا فَلَا عُدْوَانَ إِلَّا عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ

Hence, fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone; but if they desist, then all hostility shall cease, save against those who [wilfully] oppress.

Please go over the verses slowly and again, correct your misconceptions.

And in the below surah, the reason they were commanded to fight in the first place is because the disbelievers broke their treaties and attacked them. Go over the surah from the beginning so you can stop jumping into conclusions.

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 12:
وَإِن نَّكَثُوا أَيْمَانَهُم مِّن بَعْدِ عَهْدِهِمْ وَطَعَنُوا فِي دِينِكُمْ فَقَاتِلُوا أَئِمَّةَ الْكُفْرِ إِنَّهُمْ لَا أَيْمَانَ لَهُمْ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَنتَهُونَ

But if they break their solemn pledges after having concluded a covenant, and revile your religion, then fight against these archetypes of faithlessness who, behold, have no [regard for their own] pledges, so that they might desist [from aggression].

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 13:
أَلَا تُقَاتِلُونَ قَوْمًا نَّكَثُوا أَيْمَانَهُمْ وَهَمُّوا بِإِخْرَاجِ الرَّسُولِ وَهُم بَدَءُوكُمْ أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ أَتَخْشَوْنَهُمْ فَاللَّهُ أَحَقُّ أَن تَخْشَوْهُ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ

Would you, perchance, fail to fight against people who have broken their solemn pledges, and have done all that they could to drive the Apostle away, and have been first to attack you? Do you hold them in awe? Nay, it is God alone of whom you ought to stand in awe, if you are [truly] believers!


Yes, there is difference between disbelievers and hypocrites. Hypocrites are those who claim to be believers but are really disbelievers in disguise, they plot against the prophet and drive people away from the religion, pay attention and please go over those verses I posted again and you will note the differences.

plainbibletruth:


You agree there is difference between disbelievers and hypocrites.

You understand that hypocrites are those who claim to be believers but are in disguise I.e. they pretend and therefore behave and DO THINGS as if they are true believers but perhaps not wholeheartedly.

Why then is it difficult for you to see that a Moslem who believes he is following Islam correctly can see another Moslem who does not agree with his beliefs about Islam as a hypocrite?

Can a Sunni Moslem view the Shia Moslem as a hypocrite?

Can he then behave toward him with what he considers appropriate quranic injunctions?

ilynem:

Sorry, but please can you send this post again, but with the Surah chapters in numbers I understand (I love to crosscheck) and without the Arabic thingy. I can't read it, so there is not point. Thank you. But if you say this is the last time you will reply me (thought we were having a discussion. Meant no offense), then there is no point because even my reply will be ignored. Thank you.

Vokog:
I would like to preface the body of my post with this caveat: I am not a Muslim. In fact, I am an atheist, and I was formally christian and I have no affiliation with Islam whatsoever. The only affiliation I have with Islam, is that the people who subscribe to it are humans like myself, and as such, they don't deserve to be smeared, stereotyped, and painted in a negative light, to further an agenda. That's essentially why I decided to create this thread - To disillusion people from the lies that they have been made to believe about Islam and about terrorism.

I am not going to bore anyone with a long op. What I'd do however, is that I will allow anyone who wants contribute to air their own arguments about why they think the premise of my post is wrong, or why they think Islamic terrorism is an inherently Islamic phenomenon and I'll refute EVERY argument.

Mods, please don't move this to the Muslim section. It would defeat its purpose.

ilynem:

But you lot don't believe in prayers so it shouldn't matter to any of you, right? And obviously, she didn't mean that. Analice107 is a good Lady. She doesn't wish death on anyone.

NigerianScholar:



As long as boko haram and al quaeda is concerned
"All" Terrorists are muslims, but not all muslims are terrorists

I am not saying islam= terrorists. Islam doesnt support terrorism, but most of the terrorists happen to be muslims and they shouldnt be blamed for it blame the terrorists not their religion. you cant blame all nigerians for grand theft because of dammy crane and people like him

If you dont agree with me, i am sorry. You are decieving yourself

The first all i used was exaggerated. I meant most i just wanted to copy someones phrase.






And btw. May we discuss your atheism? i am not trying to criticise you or anything. I like interacting with people with different orientations about God

Vokog:


What do you want us to discuss about my atheism?

Vokog:


You are the one who is being delusional and lacking not even a modicum of nuance on the subject.

How does bombing an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester or attacking innocent people at a London bridge help in establishing a global caliphate?

I have addressed your argument about quoting verses from the Quran many times on this thread and I am not going to do it again. Just read through my comments.

There are various ideologies within Islam and there are various sects within Islam that hold extremist views. I am not disputing this fact. But believing they are representative of Islam or the views of most Muslims or most Sunni is counterfactual. That being said, you need to understand how ISIS began in order to get the full picture.

Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, the founder of ISIS was originally a member of the Mujahideen, the CIA trained rebel fighters during the Soviet-Afghan war, who still remain today in Afghanistan as the Taliban. Al-Zarqawi "fled" to Iraq from Afghanistan when the US invaded it in 2001. There he began propagating "his extremist ideology" and gaining followers.

When Saddam hussiem was still president of Iraq, Al-Zarqawi's extremist sect was present, and Saddam was doing a good job at keeping them at bay, but when the US invaded Iraq, they ousted Saddam and created a power vacuum of which this extremist sect filled. Then the US purposefully left them weapons and armoured tanks when they left Iraq. After this, ISIS began expanding.
Now since then, the US has been supplying these guys weapons and providing cover and medical attention for them through Saudi Arabia and Israel. This is a fact.

From all I have said, if you are smart enough, you should be able to see through the bullshit the corporate media is feeding everyone.

Vokog:


If we establish the fact that ISIS is funded, aided and supported by foreign elements, are we supposed to take anything they say as the reason for committing their actions?

That number 6 is just plain ridiculous. It even makes it more obvious that it's all propaganda trying to deflect popular belief towards Islam as the prime motivation for the actions of ISIS. It's all propaganda against Islam and a pretext to continue their foreign intervention, which further destabilizes these countries and immeserates more lives, all in their imperialist and Zionist interests.

The US and their allies aren't fooling me or anyone who is smart enough to see through their bullshit. I know how intelligent psychopaths think. And those in covert control of the US government are the worst kind of intelligent psychopaths you can ever imagine.

Vokog:


I am an atheist, okay. I am not defending Islam. I am defending the truth.

The same way Islam enjoins Muslims to kill disbelievers is also the same way the bible enjoins it's adherents to kill unbelievers as well, that is if you take the verses in the old testament out of context like you are doing the Quran.

NigerianScholar:


Your whole philosphy on it. Some people are actually agnostic but call themselves atheists. I just want to know what you believe in

How you became one

vodkat:


The only reason George bush jr invaded Iraq was because saddam plotted to assaniate his father and that was the pay back.

Also saddam was forming like Kim Jong un but all was shakara.

vodkat:



There aim is to use violence to cause the population to submit to their religion.


In Arabic the word Islam means submission

How do you think Hausa became Muslims. It was through jihad of us man dan fodio.

Vokog:


I am an atheist in respect to the existence of an anthropomorphic God who intervenes in the life of his creatures and demands a relationship with them. Eg. The kind of God all monotheistic and polytheistic religions espouse. Clearly such kind of God is a fabrication of the human mind.
My thought- i think what should be where i put in italics should be. the view such kind of God is a fabrication of the human mind.
I am a bit agnostic about the existence of a creator being and the nature of such being. Maybe the big bang that led to the creation of our universe, and eventually us, was orchestrated by a being or a force or maybe it just happened without any thing controlling it. This I don't know. But if it was set into motion by some kind of being, that being is obviously sadistic or at best apathetic, and doesn't care about humans or animals or any creature on our planet.

I personally dont believe that we were all created by a "random" event. I mean, look at yourself, look at your body,look at your brain.... see what we humans are capable of. See the world. See nature and the way ecosystems work. You cant say that it happened all because of a random event which happened to provide all the things we need to survive

And btw, most atheists say that God cant exist because people are dyung of cancer hiv and other diseases. I believe you used the words 'sadistic' and 'apathethic'
Mind you, i still have mixed feelings about this issue. But i am trying to approach it with an open mind. And when o read the bible. I found out that you have to read it with an open mind. So youll understand the message

The story of adam and eve in the book of genesis provides an explanation for God being "sadistic". If you truly understand the story. Youll know that God never created humans to die and we were once in a perfect state wheere we couldnt die or fall sick until we ate the forbidden fruit. Read that story well and understand

To bring it home, I am sure, with a strong degree of certainty that most of the popular religions today, that is Christianity, Islam and Judaism, are fundamentally flawed. Their God doesn't exist and their belief system is riddled with lots of loopholes that illegitimates it. One doesn't have to be a genius to figure this out.

I believe religion is a man-made interpretation of God and. Since it was made by man. It cannot be perfect. The bible was written by humans btw. You can always notice a little bit of similarity between all religions which cant be a coincidence






I was born and raised a Christian. Then I began to think. And then I began to question. Then I began to inform myself about my world, about it's history and about the history of most religions, and then I re-read the bible, and as I did, all the contradictions, inaccuracies and plain nonsense became even more obvious, and then I began to appraise my belief system and appended my growing understanding of science to the tools of historical analysis, critical thinking and objective evaluation of the doctrines of Christianity, which I used in conducting this appraisal, and I came to the conclusion that it was all bullshit. And then I renounced by faith.
I believe we humans cant understand everything. Even with the help of science. Some questions should be better left unanswered. We dont even know all the animals om earth talkless of knowing how we came about or an higher being

Demmzy15:
Islam has been in Nigeria way before Usman's great grandfather was born!

Vokog:


America invaded Iraq because of purely imperialist and neocolonist reasons. America loves puppet presidents, especially in countries with rare resources, who would act in their interests and do their bidding. If the president of a country refuses to act in their interests, they take him out. To do this, they either fabricate an excuse to invade the country and take this president out overtly, or they covertly fund or train people to do it.
This is what they tried to do with Fidel Castro in the infamous Operation Ajax that occasioned the bay of pigs in 1961. They also did the same in Nicaragua in 1954, where they planted weapons in Nicaragua in order to blame it on the Guatamala, they could have an excuse to invade Guatamela and oust its ruler who didn't want to be a puppet. Same thing they did in 1973 when they overthrew the president of Chile and replaced him with a dictator. Same thing they did with Gaddafi in Libya.

Saddam Hussein clearly didn't want to be the United states puppet anymore. Prior to the war of 2003, he had decided to go the way of Iran and nationalize Iraq's oil. America didn't want this and concocted a pretext - The bush administration claimed that they got reliable Intel that Saddam was had weapons of mass destruction. This obviously wasn't true, but it provided the excuse they needed to invade the country and oust Saddam, which they did.

Kathmandu:
He is just confused. The only atheist i take serious is Seun not all these boys looking for attention

vodkat:


America is oil rich don't need Iraq oil and they didn't take any.

The only reason was revenge bush jr wanted to finish off gulf war 1.

Saddam of then is like North Korea of today, invading countries.

hardeycute:
America loves puppets

vodkat:

Arabs love puppets that why u must bow down to their black stone in kabba.


Abi I lie?

Vokog:


Why are you reaffirming what she said? Again, I never said terrorism doesn't exist, what I said was that Islamic terrorism doesn't exist. Meaning that the predominant perception of terrorism as being orchestrated by people within Islam, who want to make erect a global caliphate, through global Jihad, is demonstrably untrue.