Hello nairalanders, christians and muslims both believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, isnt it possible that mary was having an affair and she accidentally got pregnant?, but since she knew the people that lived back then were a superstitious gullible lot, she came up with the lie that it was god that made her pregnant and the fools believed her, 

i personally think she was a really smart woman because up till today her lie is still believed by christians and muslims

if she was alive today she will be a very good politician, 

Damn right. . .and joseph was in on the whole thing too.

I wonder how someone would impregnate my daughter and tell me it was the holy spirit who did it.

For me, the miracle about jesus' birth is not because he came from a 'virgin', the real miracle is the gullibility of joseph. Think about it, my girlfriend, my fiancee who probably has been keeping se.x away until a certain time now suddenly brings in a big tummy saying it's the holy spirit.
I usually describe myself as a pacifist but for that occurrence, i'll just lose it. To make it worse the bible said "and joseph was a good man". the truth is that tolerating what mary did is actually against what was advised in the bible. The old testament made it clear that such women should be stoned to death so how does joseph's disobedience make him a good guy.
Mary was not a descendant of david, so if joseph was not jesus' biological father why do they now say he is from the line of david which happens to be joseph's lineage.


tudor how far now, e don tey wey i jam u for any thread o.
g1, sup bro? _{thanks again, u know wot i mean.}

Tudór:

Damn right. . .and joseph was in on the whole thing too.

I wonder how someone would impregnate my daughter and tell me it was the holy spirit who did it.

ilosiwaju:


For me, the miracle about jesus' birth is not because he came from a 'virgin', the real miracle is the gullibility of joseph. Think about it, my girlfriend, my fiancee who probably has been keeping se.x away until a certain time now suddenly brings in a big tummy saying it's the holy spirit.
I usually describe myself as a pacifist but for that occurrence, i'll just lose it. To make it worse the bible said "and joseph was a good man". the truth is that tolerating what mary did is actually against what was advised in the bible. The old testament made it clear that such women should be stoned to death so how does joseph's disobedience make him a good guy.
Mary was not a descendant of david, so if joseph was not jesus' biological father why do they now say he is from the line of david which happens to be joseph's lineage.


tudor how far now, e don tey wey i jam u for any thread o.
g1, sup bro? _{thanks again, u know wot i mean.}

i dey wow my brother, keep it real,

Ilosiwaju, Jesus being a son of David is not literal and ancestral. It is symbolic, a figurative expression of his spiritual messiahship. You need to understand Jewish tradition and prophecy to unlock that.

G1, i thot u said you were not a troublemaker? I would usually not enter a thread like this, but i thought you were talking about Mary sister of Lazarus and Martha, who by gospel inference was a prostitute before she changed when she wept at Christ's feet (John 12:3 in light of Matt 26:7, Mark 14:3, Luke 7:37). But you were not bothered about that Mary, rather, you were stirring the hornet's nest. I am disappointed. Not like I expect you to care anyway.

Mavenb0x:

Ilosiwaju, Jesus being a son of David is not literal and ancestral. It is symbolic, a figurative expression of his spiritual messiahship. You need to understand Jewish tradition and prophecy to unlock that.

G1, i thot u said you were not a troublemaker? I would usually not enter a thread like this, but i thought you were talking about Mary sister of Lazarus and Martha, who by gospel inference was a love-peddler before she changed when she wept at Christ's feet (John 12:3 in light of Matt 26:7, Mark 14:3, Luke 7:37). But you were not bothered about that Mary, rather, you were stirring the hornet's nest. I am disappointed. Not like I expect you to care anyway.

what do you mean by being a trouble maker? you mean i should not ask questions about stuff that i find questionable? i am not a trouble maker in the sense that i dont go around trying to shove my atheism on others, like i said before anyone has the right to worship what they want as long as they dont force their belief and morals on me,

i am just asking, if today a woman becomes pregnant and after being confronted by her husband and family about who is responsible, and her response is that it was god/holy spirit who made her pregnant, who will believe her?, i am sure you will be one of the first people cracking up

Maven gurl, how was service today and your weekend in general? Just a personal question: if jesus was not born of a virgin, would that have affected his divinity? i think the virgin birth is a further attempt to establish xtianity's rather pervasive attitude towards sexu.al relations. How for example can you explain david's repentance about being born a sinner or should i put it this way, was conceived through an unholy act?

Mavenb0x:

Ilosiwaju, Jesus being a son of David is not literal and ancestral. It is symbolic, a figurative expression of his spiritual messiahship. You need to understand Jewish tradition and prophecy to unlock that.

Here we go again! At what point do we separate metaphors from literal interpretations?
If that lineage was metaphoric or symbolic like you put it its either:
1. You're WRONG.
or
2. Matthew and Luke just wasted their time trying to defend or trace his genealogy.

Again, if jesus and joseph are not related by blood or DNA , why is it that Matthew and Luke trace Jesus’ bloodline precisely through Joseph? As usual, they did not bother about that issue. Since his only bloodline is through Mary, how come none of the gospels mention Mary's genealogy?\

Matthew’s genealogy traces Joseph’s lineage back through King David, the ancestor of the Messiah, all the way to Abraham, the father of the Jews. Luke’s genealogy goes back well beyond that, tracing the line to Adam, father of the human race.

Luke outrightly indicates that the family line is that of Joseph, not Mary (Luke 1 vs 23).

If it was symbolic, why then try show it in historical and verifiable terms as both Matthew and Luke attempted?

Mavenb0x:

Ilosiwaju, Jesus being a son of David is not literal and ancestral. It is symbolic, a figurative expression of his spiritual messiahship.

Typical. Standard christian-template response. Once anything does not add up, they declare it symbolic.

You need to understand Jewish tradition and prophecy to unlock that.

Jewsish prophecy specifically spoke about a descendant of David, and the FACT remains that Jesus of Nazareth was NOT a descendant of David anymore than i am a descendant of Christopher Columbus.

Besides if you talk about Jewish tradition, go and ask the Jews: they are not fooled by this hocus pocus - they know their prophecies well and you arrogantly imagine you understand their own traditions bettrer than they do - they DO NOT ACCEPT ALL THIS HOCUS POCUS.

Damn!!! I slept at a friend's crib and the broke ass babe has no Internet so I'm stuck with my phone.

I'm runnin home so I can join this debate. This phone typing na nonsense. BTW I'm on mavenbox's side.

Yet another fairytale story from d jewish fiction book.
When it comes 2 religion, people throw thier sense of reasonin out of d window.
Imagine if ur girlfriend, sister or daugther were 2 tel u she was impregnatd by one "holy spirit"

how exactly did mary get pregnate? Did this spirit generate sperm & artificialy put it into her or did it screw mary?
Since this "spirit" is also "god" & "jesus christ"(trinity) dat means jesus screwed his own mother 2 give birth to himself.

U have 2 wonder why there were no raised eye brows about d pregnancy in d village since such occurance is rare.

D truth is people wil believe anytin wen it comes 2 religion.

@deepsight baba, i was about sending out an invitation to you. How body, how service _{just kidding}?

Deep Sight:

Besides if you talk about Jewish tradition, go and ask the Jews: they are not fooled by this hocus pocus - they know their prophecies well and you arrogantly imagine you understand their own traditions bettrer than they do - they DO NOT ACCEPT ALL THIS HOCUS POCUS.

Shey you dey see black man? To teach someone his culture, history and heritage is quite an arrogant stance. maven, this is grade A zealousness. Jews dont even trust or believe this guy and you are sure they meant symbolism in their text.
Here's one again for you maven, can we also in that light take the virgin birth to be symbolic meaning a young woman(intercourse with joseph not withstanding)? If no, why? and how do you know it was really literal.
haba!

Deep Sight:


Besides if you talk about Jewish tradition, go and ask the Jews: they are not fooled by this hocus pocus - they know their prophecies well and you arrogantly imagine you understand their own traditions bettrer than they do - they DO NOT ACCEPT ALL THIS HOCUS POCUS.

Deep Sight:



Besides if you talk about Jewish tradition, go and ask the Jews: they are not fooled by this hocus pocus - they know their prophecies well and you arrogantly imagine you understand their own traditions bettrer than they do - they DO NOT ACCEPT ALL THIS HOCUS POCUS.

just had to respond to this because it isn't accurate.

FYI the insight into the symbolic nature of Jewish scripture was courtesy of involving Jewish scholars in Christian scholarship. Till the holocaust Jews were seen as the enemies/ killers of Jesus and Christian theology was done by strictly non Jews.
It's like taking all out African traditional stories and giving a Chinese dude to make sense out of it. He will most likely, even if sincere, miss the boat on a lot of stuff.


I can't provide evidence right now or make a detailed argument cause it's stress with phone, but I'll do that once I get home. In fact my mouth is watering sef,

I'll be back *in Austrian accent*  

As usual, unbelievers are busy fumbling with their bellybuttons and telling the whole world how busy they are.
Learn to come out straight with your ignorance instead of using sty-sty to ask questions. BTW, the scripture doesn't say that Joseph believed Mary. It says an angel appeared to him to convince him.
It was needful that Jesus be born of a virgin because it was the seed of the woman that was to bruise Satan, not the seed of the man. That's what makes Him(Jesus) the second Adam, a first of His kind. The second Adam is needed because a spotless sinless lamb is needed for the sacrifice on calvary.
And maven, Jesus is also son of David literally. Luke 3 traces His maternal geneology. Matthew traced His geneology from Joseph. Joseph was 'technically' his father one way or the other, should we say step?
Lemme stop here before tudor and friends blow up in confusion.

Image123:

As usual, unbelievers are busy fumbling with their bellybuttons and telling the whole world how busy they are.
Learn to come out straight with your ignorance instead of using sty-sty to ask questions. BTW, the scripture doesn't say that Joseph believed Mary. It says an angel appeared to him to convince him.
It was needful that Jesus be born of a virgin because it was the seed of the woman that was to bruise Satan, not the seed of the man. That's what makes Him(Jesus) the second Adam, a first of His kind. The second Adam is needed because a spotless sinless lamb is needed for the sacrifice on calvary.
And maven, Jesus is also son of David literally. Luke 3 traces His maternal geneology. Matthew traced His geneology from Joseph. Joseph was 'technically' his father one way or the other, should we say step?
Lemme stop here before tudor and friends blow up in confusion.

it is hightly possible that he was in on the lie and deception, come to think of it, it would have been highly embarrassing for him that his babe was banged by someone else, so in other to save himself from being laughed at, he decided to join in on her lie

so what do you think image123

Deep Sight:

Typical. Standard christian-template response. Once anything does not add up, they declare it symbolic.

Or a spiritual mystery that man can never understand. . . . . . . . .The escapist tactics are endless. . . .

Image123:

As usual, unbelievers are busy fumbling with their bellybuttons and telling the whole world how busy they are.
Learn to come out straight with your ignorance instead of using sty-sty to ask questions. BTW, the scripture doesn't say that Joseph believed Mary. It says an angel appeared to him to convince him.
It was needful that Jesus be born of a virgin because it was the seed of the woman that was to bruise Satan, not the seed of the man. That's what makes Him(Jesus) the second Adam, a first of His kind. The second Adam is needed because a spotless sinless lamb is needed for the sacrifice on calvary.
And maven, Jesus is also son of David literally. Luke 3 traces His maternal geneology. Matthew traced His geneology from Joseph. Joseph was 'technically' his father one way or the other, should we say step?
Lemme stop here before tudor and friends blow up in confusion.

This one is just too confused and does not even know what he is talking about at all. . . .

g1, it's 'highly possible' that the matthew account was right, that an angel appeared to Joseph and convinced him that Mary was with child of God the Spirit. That makes you wrong and in danger of eternal doom for not believing the good news that Jesus came and died for you.
What do you think g1?


haha mazaje the comedian.

Image123:

g1, it's 'highly possible' that the matthew account was right, that an angel appeared to Joseph and convinced him that Mary was with child of God the Spirit. That makes you wrong and in danger of eternal doom for not believing the good news that Jesus came and died for you.
What do you think g1?

I have been saying it over and over again. . . .You guys believe in these ridiculous myths and LIES ONLY because you have been conditioned to believe in them through FEAR and nothing else. . . The fear of hell is the selling point of the Christian mythical stories and lies. . .Believe in stupid lies or end up in hell . . . .What nonsense. . . . .Later your guys will still go around mocking muslims, hindus and other deluded folks like you telling them that they believe in fairy tales. . . .You guys ONLY believe because you are afraid not because your beliefs are self evident or make any sense at all. . . .

haha mazaje the comedian.

Better to be a comedian than to be a fearful person that believes in the myths of people he does not even know. . . . .

Image123:

g1, it's 'highly possible' that the matthew account was right, that an angel appeared to Joseph and convinced him that Mary was with child of God the Spirit. That makes you wrong and in danger of eternal doom for not believing the good news that Jesus came and died for you.
What do you think g1?


haha mazaje the comedian.

lol, LMAO, LWKMD, you better repent to the flying spaghetti monster for believing in jesus, or else you will spend the rest of eternity without spaghetti,

mazaje
Are you kidding me yet again. Who says I'm afraid of hell. Hell no. I live by faith and in faith. I DO NOT FEAR hell. There is judgement for unbelievers. Boldface cannot stop it. Ever heard of the term 'reflex action'? Somethings are just beyond you. You'd better adjust and adapt. Unbelief is old school mr. The knowledge of God is real. Is not some conditioning story as you may think. My God is real. He works in my life and in circumstances around me. Come up to the higher level. Christ Jesus is the higher level. Believe the good news.

ilosiwaju:


For me, the miracle about jesus' birth is not because he came from a 'virgin', the real miracle is the gullibility of joseph. Think about it, my girlfriend, my fiancee who probably has been keeping se.x away until a certain time now suddenly brings in a big tummy saying it's the holy spirit. 
I usually describe myself as a pacifist but for that occurrence, i'll just lose it. To make it worse the bible said "and joseph was a good man". the truth is that tolerating what mary did is actually against what was advised in the bible. The old testament made it clear that such women should be stoned to death so how does joseph's disobedience make him a good guy.
Mary was not a descendant of david, so if joseph was not jesus' biological father why do they now say he is from the line of david which happens to be joseph's lineage.


tudor how far now, e don tey wey i jam u for any thread o.
g1, sup bro? _{thanks again, u know wot i mean.}

I'm fine my bro just been busier than usual these past few weeks. . . .wats up in your end?

@tudor, e go better jare. am fine!

Image123:

mazaje
Are you kidding me yet again. Who says I'm afraid of hell. Hell no. I live by faith and in faith. I DO NOT FEAR hell. There is judgement for unbelievers. Boldface cannot stop it. Ever heard of the term 'reflex action'? Somethings are just beyond you. You'd better adjust and adapt. Unbelief is old school mr. The knowledge of God is real. Is not some conditioning story as you may think. My God is real. He works in my life and in circumstances around me. Come up to the higher level. Christ Jesus is the higher level. Believe the good news.

ok my image123, i admire your resilience. you are so close to being hardcore. why wont God heal amputees? he cures cancer, HIV, sickle cell, stroke, blindness etc(especially ailments that are so prone to misdiagnosis eg. HIV tests could be tricky at times). how come we dont see the more obvious miracles?
just curious. wanna help calm my curiosity?
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

Good to know you're fine.

I see you're engaging our good ol friend image123. . .

I remember sometime ago he said to me and mazaje that when jesus returns on earth that he 1mage123 and other believers will fly up to the sky and join the saviour's army and kill us all atheists. . .that dude is wierd.

ilosiwa
How you de? Hope you're not an amputee? God can do all things. He who can give new hearts can give new bones. I told mazaje the other day and I tell you also. Cut off those hands of yours and come with faith. All things are possible to him that believes. If you have faith, you'll see the glory of God.
But come to think of it. Does healing an amputee prove to you that God is for real? If according to you, God can heal so many sicknesses, why do you wait to see an amputee before believing in the supernatural? To you seeing is believing, but in God's 'realm', believing is seeing. If you can believe you'll see. And so it has been for me and many others who dare to believe. That's the way up ilosiw.

A feast day is holy because it shows that all the days of the year are holy.

A sanctuary is holy because it shows that all places are sanctified.

And Christ was born to show that all men are sons of God . . . and all women are daughters of God.

The Divine Sonship of Jesus is diluted into the notion of the divine sonship of all mankind.

tudor
There's my ol boy living in fear. Never mind. By then you'll have repented. Can some1/g1 bring us back to the thread discuss?

No doubt she is a fecking slot. Ask ur self why did she nt go for the supposed census with her family bt wit a man who was only betroned 2 her? Cos she had sh.ag.ged jo and was hidding from her family.that goat jesus was born in a stable,and no family came after to congratulate them haba dont u smell a cover up. Even d linage is crap how can a descent of rich solomon be a carpenter. Even luke and mathew try by accounting 4 events b4 they were born

Mary knew that she had been caught out and was facing certain death by stoning for cheating on her husband. Joseph must have been deeply in love with her and wanted to believe her when she came up with the only alibi she could to save her own life. In his heart he probably knew she was lying but forgave her when she begged him to help save her life.

Yo ilosiwaju,

Hit me up, need to holla at you

Image123:

ilosiwa
How you de? Hope you're not an amputee? God can do all things. He who can give new hearts can give new bones. I told mazaje the other day and I tell you also. Cut off those hands of yours and come with faith. All things are possible to him that believes. If you have faith, you'll see the glory of God.
But come to think of it. Does healing an amputee prove to you that God is for real? If according to you, God can heal so many sicknesses, why do you wait to see an amputee before believing in the supernatural? To you seeing is believing, but in God's 'realm', believing is seeing. If you can believe you'll see. And so it has been for me and many others who dare to believe. That's the way up ilosiw.

Your sense of humour dey terrify me o. AM NOT AN AMPUTEE O.  
You sure do get my point dont you, what have amputees done to piss off the almighty into giving them their own miracles, i hate to derail threads.
Back to the topic:

mantraa:

Mary knew that she had been caught out and was facing certain death by stoning for cheating on her husband. Joseph must have been deeply in love with her and wanted to believe her when she came up with the only alibi she could to save her own life. In his heart he probably knew she was lying but forgave her when she begged him to help save her life.

BINGO!

or

ednut1:

No doubt she is a fecking slot. Ask your self why did she nt go for the supposed census with her family bt wit a man who was only betroned 2 her? Cos she had sh.ag.ged jo and was hidding from her family.that goat jesus was born in a stable,and no family came after to congratulate them haba dont u smell a cover up. Even d linage is crap how can a descent of rich solomon be a carpenter. Even luke and mathew try by accounting 4 events b4 they were born

SCOOBY DOO! GBAM!

Things we do for love! If joseph's ultimate aim was to bed mary, do you think her sleeping with someone else "mistakenly" will deter joseph? I want to wildly assume that maybe its even one of the scribes that impregnated her as such she dare not open her mouth about the ordeal. Dont we in Nigeria here hear of scandals involving the clergy and female members of the church(e.g choirmaster vs chorister)? Who knows how many pregnancies some girls have obtained from external sources and later drop on the neck of their boyfriends or fiances(who naturally are the prime suspects)? Strange things happen folks. Mary sleeping with someone else should not be a big deal in a book that contains so much slavery, child labour and sexism.


Hello Beskept!

Whats going on ilosiwaju. I'm new here, so I have no idea how to operate (and barely navigate) around the site. I had a couple questions I wanted to ask you (privately), and was hoping you could either email me, or PM me (whichever of the 2 is fine by me).

post your email. i'll hit you up on messenger.

My email is BalcomBJJ(@)gmail(dot)com