DADAL:


One cycle is counted when the accumulated discharge reaches a lower SOC over any chronological period. The battery bank were changed by the grid or solar before reaching a cycle threshold.

Actually cycle count is more complicated than that, for the victron BMV a cycle is counted after a charge to full where full is determined by the combination of voltage, tail current and time indicated on the BMV. So if those settings are not realistically set then cycle count will be grossly inaccurate but if you set them up properly then you will likely be close to accuracy.

For instance in a lithium world of a 24v set, putting a full voltage at anything above 27v will likely result to fewer circle count(similar concept will apply to LA).

Ultimately I have found circle count may not be as reliable as using the cumulative discharge unless the settings is properly done to make cycle count data more reliable. Yes if you use cumulative it's likely to be slightly more than the actual battery cycle count but it's better to estimate higher than way lower or better still average on both data source

ojtech8291:
Please can you explain more on this? The same thing is happening to one 24V setup now. Sometimes it will work fine but the following day inverter will just shut down with the sunset. Though I discovered that one of the battery down to 10V while the other is 12V. The cable from that connect the battery to the Inverter are not equal. The +Ve is longer that -Ve could that be the cause? if not what could be the cause of this?

The one that goes down to 10v is failing or already failed. Unfortunately, you may have to replace the batteries.

mktinsight:
Kenya Power raises alarm over clients solar switch
Friday November 20 2020

The growing shift to solar power systems by heavy-consuming industrialists seeking reliable and cheaper supply has rattled electricity distributor Kenya Power amid thinning revenues.

National grid supply is meant to provide constant electricity to its customers both in industries and private homes. A large revenue comes from industries that are being supplied while supplies to private homes too is significant. In line with proper reasoning, Kenya Power has apparently thought that it will keep sailing the waters as long as industries and big corporations keep their patronage with them. The trend that is alarming to 'em as rightly stated is the switch to solar power of heavy consuming industrialists (the industries and big corporations)

I have always maintained that in Nigeria, the system that may work well is to significantly reduce the domestic load on national grid (since the government does not have the sense to increase capacity impressively and commensurately) and instead providing constant supply to industries and factories. This will drive down production cost of manufactured materials, hence price slash.

How do we then supply private homes if the national grid is dedicated more to industries and big corporations? It is simple. The government should provide incentives for private homes to get for 'emselves alternative non-fossil fuel energy sources. Solar products should be made import free and non-taxable or at least the tax reduced significantly while the government can also give interest free solar energy loan re-payable over 10 years for homes that are interested in going alternative energy. This way, more homes will be out of darkness, more of national grid resources will be dedicated to improving power supply to factories, large companies and SMEs that are interested in hooking to the national grid.

Even with this emerging trend of more Nigerian homes getting on the AE train and our potential patronage of our massive population, Nigeria should seriously think about local manufacturing of solar products. There are 9ja guys that have passable knowledge of inverter assemblage and a little more training will help 'em up their game to be at par with their counterparts in India, Singapore, Russia and China in that field.

But the myopic Nigerian government may see this Kenya trend and try to prevent such by massively hiking tarrifs on imported solar materials or even taxing people using solar (indirectly punishing them for not using PHCN). But whether they like it or not, awareness amongst Nigerians is increasing and it is only a matter of time before majority switch to solar AE at least to power basic home appliances if not to power the entire home. By then, the same fate that befell NITEL will hold PHCN by the jugular and even the government won't be able to save 'em.

You don't have to use your hand to re-create the scenario, use a neon tester. Better still, use an analog multimeter (low input resistance, less likely to be fooled by ghost voltages) , check for voltage between the positive terminal of the battery and the ground

ceaser:


True. I touched the positive terminal and I had no footwears on; the two bare feets on the tiled floor.

I would have tried to re-create the scenario but wearing shoes this time around just so to be sure that the inverter is not faulty. But mba! I have successfully resisted the enemy's temptation.

ceaser:


National grid supply is meant to provide constant electricity to its customers both in industries and private homes. A large revenue comes from industries that are being supplied while supplies to private homes too is significant. In line with proper reasoning, Kenya Power has apparently thought that it will keep sailing the waters as long as industries and big corporations keep their patronage with them. The trend that is alarming to 'em as rightly stated is the switch to solar power of heavy consuming industrialists (the industries and big corporations)

I have always maintained that in Nigeria, the system that may work well is to significantly reduce the domestic load on national grid (since the government does not have the sense to increase capacity impressively and commensurately) and instead providing constant supply to industries and factories. This will drive down production cost of manufactured materials, hence price slash.

How do we then supply private homes if the national grid is dedicated more to industries and big corporations? It is simple. The government should provide incentives for private homes to get for 'emselves alternative non-fossil fuel energy sources. Solar products should be made import free and non-taxable or at least the tax reduced significantly while the government can also give interest free solar energy loan re-payable over 10 years for homes that are interested in going alternative energy. This way, more homes will be out of darkness, more of national grid resources will be dedicated to improving power supply to factories, large companies and SMEs that are interested in hooking to the national grid.

Even with this emerging trend of more Nigerian homes getting on the AE train and our potential patronage of our massive population, Nigeria should seriously think about local manufacturing of solar products. There are 9ja guys that have passable knowledge of inverter assemblage and a little more training will help 'em up their game to be at par with their counterparts in India, Singapore, Russia and China in that field.

But the myopic Nigerian government may see this Kenya trend and try to prevent such by massively hiking tarrifs on imported solar materials or even taxing people using solar (indirectly punishing them for not using PHCN). But whether they like it or not, awareness amongst Nigerians is increasing and it is only a matter of time before majority switch to solar AE at least to power basic home appliances if not to power the entire home. By then, the same fate that befell NITEL will hold PHCN by the jugular and even the government won't be able to save 'em.

apt! Very apt!

ceaser:


National grid supply is meant to provide constant electricity to its customers both in industries and private homes. A large revenue comes from industries that are being supplied while supplies to private homes too is significant. In line with proper reasoning, Kenya Power has apparently thought that it will keep sailing the waters as long as industries and big corporations keep their patronage with them. The trend that is alarming to 'em as rightly stated is the switch to solar power of heavy consuming industrialists (the industries and big corporations)

I have always maintained that in Nigeria, the system that may work well is to significantly reduce the domestic load on national grid (since the government does not have the sense to increase capacity impressively and commensurately) and instead providing constant supply to industries and factories. This will drive down production cost of manufactured materials, hence price slash.

How do we then supply private homes if the national grid is dedicated more to industries and big corporations? It is simple. The government should provide incentives for private homes to get for 'emselves alternative non-fossil fuel energy sources. Solar products should be made import free and non-taxable or at least the tax reduced significantly while the government can also give interest free solar energy loan re-payable over 10 years for homes that are interested in going alternative energy. This way, more homes will be out of darkness, more of national grid resources will be dedicated to improving power supply to factories, large companies and SMEs that are interested in hooking to the national grid.

Even with this emerging trend of more Nigerian homes getting on the AE train and our potential patronage of our massive population, Nigeria should seriously think about local manufacturing of solar products. There are 9ja guys that have passable knowledge of inverter assemblage and a little more training will help 'em up their game to be at par with their counterparts in India, Singapore, Russia and China in that field.

But the myopic Nigerian government may see this Kenya trend and try to prevent such by massively hiking tarrifs on imported solar materials or even taxing people using solar (indirectly punishing them for not using PHCN). But whether they like it or not, awareness amongst Nigerians is increasing and it is only a matter of time before majority switch to solar AE at least to power basic home appliances if not to power the entire home. By then, the same fate that befell NITEL will hold PHCN by the jugular and even the government won't be able to save 'em.

Too much sense in 5 paragraphs.

ceaser:


National grid supply is meant to provide constant electricity to its customers both in industries and private homes. A large revenue comes from industries that are being supplied while supplies to private homes too is significant. In line with proper reasoning, Kenya Power has apparently thought that it will keep sailing the waters as long as industries and big corporations keep their patronage with them. The trend that is alarming to 'em as rightly stated is the switch to solar power of heavy consuming industrialists (the industries and big corporations)

I have always maintained that in Nigeria, the system that may work well is to significantly reduce the domestic load on national grid (since the government does not have the sense to increase capacity impressively and commensurately) and instead providing constant supply to industries and factories. This will drive down production cost of manufactured materials, hence price slash.

How do we then supply private homes if the national grid is dedicated more to industries and big corporations? It is simple. The government should provide incentives for private homes to get for 'emselves alternative non-fossil fuel energy sources. Solar products should be made import free and non-taxable or at least the tax reduced significantly while the government can also give interest free solar energy loan re-payable over 10 years for homes that are interested in going alternative energy. This way, more homes will be out of darkness, more of national grid resources will be dedicated to improving power supply to factories, large companies and SMEs that are interested in hooking to the national grid.

Even with this emerging trend of more Nigerian homes getting on the AE train and our potential patronage of our massive population, Nigeria should seriously think about local manufacturing of solar products. There are 9ja guys that have passable knowledge of inverter assemblage and a little more training will help 'em up their game to be at par with their counterparts in India, Singapore, Russia and China in that field.

But the myopic Nigerian government may see this Kenya trend and try to prevent such by massively hiking tarrifs on imported solar materials or even taxing people using solar (indirectly punishing them for not using PHCN). But whether they like it or not, awareness amongst Nigerians is increasing and it is only a matter of time before majority switch to solar AE at least to power basic home appliances if not to power the entire home. By then, the same fate that befell NITEL will hold PHCN by the jugular and even the government won't be able to save 'em.

I agree and I suspect that in the next few years we will see the same thing in Nigeria. Maybe not factories but Office Buildings, Shopping Malls, Hospitals, Schools, and even multi-tenant residential buildings. The cost of solar power production without storage is less than N20 per KWh and people are going to be thinking especially for businesses that operate during the day why not put solar panels on the roof and sell them electricity especially when DISCOs are charging N50 per Kwh.

Good day house and happy weekend to you all.

I been take small sabbatical from the group to go study oo cos them wan blow person head with big big terminologies. I am learning arduino and now remains for me to put the learnings into some practical usages. You will all be made aware as that goes.

But I'm glad to announce now that when Niyi, Ojeysky, Chris start with their big big words I can contribute or at least not look all so confused again . Had a lot to catch up but I'm good now.

For those asking about my Nissan Leaf batteries, those guys are there oo. I have not been able to carry out a full function test on them as all equipment required are not yet purchased. For now they are still serving the house and enjoying themselves as they basically do nothing on alternate days. Before next year is over sha I see myself increasing the bank sha. Solar full ground to charge them.

Please does anyone have this hobbyist electric meter available for immediate sale?

I need one that can measure accumulated energy with an open clamp CT

My Oga. You are doing well!

Keep pushing the limits of what is possible.

essegis:
Good day house and happy weekend to you all.

I been take small sabbatical from the group to go study oo cos them wan blow person head with big big terminologies. I am learning arduino and now remains for me to put the learnings into some practical usages. You will all be made aware as that goes.


For those asking about my Nissan Leaf batteries, those guys are there oo. I have not been able to carry out a full function test on them as all equipment required are not yet purchased. For now they are still serving the house and enjoying themselves as they basically do nothing on alternate days. Before next year is over sha I see myself increasing the bank sha. Solar full ground to charge them.

Same way as we exhaustively examined how to properly charge and discharge lead acid batteries, I am hoping we kickstart a discussion around different Lithium ion chemistries and best practices on how to handle them for extended life.

Stuff like ambient temperature effects, charge voltage limit, depth of discharge estimation and cutoff especially under PSOC conditions e.t.c

What kickstarted these thoughts was the wiring and charge recommendations for the Felicity Lithium battery. I felt they were odd given what we know today about batteries. Wiring was off and charge voltage too high for 16 cells at 3.2v nominal.

mktinsight:


I agree and I suspect that in the next few years we will see the same thing in Nigeria. Maybe not factories but Office Buildings, Shopping Malls, Hospitals, Schools, and even multi-tenant residential buildings. The cost of solar power production without storage is less than N20 per KWh and people are going to be thinking especially for businesses that operate during the day why not put solar panels on the roof and sell them electricity especially when DISCOs are charging N50 per Kwh.

How did you arrive at 20naira per Kwh for production without storage? I want to understand how that calculation is done. it seems too cheap to be true. what would then be the cost per Kwh with storage?

Guys, does using a 24v inverter confer some sort of efficiency advantage as regards runtime, compare to a 12v inverter system?

Based on that, what is the projected run time for a 400ah (200 × 2) bank using a 12v and a 24v inverter system?

I do not think that cost can stay static, it is a cost that will keep decreasing yearly. Using statistical analysis, it can get to a stage where it will be almost zero after some years as the material and installation cost would have paid for itself.

Dkev:


How did you arrive at 20naira per Kwh for production without storage? I want to understand how that calculation is done. it seems too cheap to be true. what would then be the cost per Kwh with storage?

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Same way as we exhaustively examined how to properly charge and discharge lead acid batteries, I am hoping we kickstart a discussion around different Lithium ion chemistries and best practices on how to handle them for extended life.

Stuff like ambient temperature effects, charge voltage limit, depth of discharge estimation and cutoff especially under PSOC conditions e.t.c

What kickstarted these thoughts was the wiring and charge recommendations for the Felicity Lithium battery. I felt they were odd given what we know today about batteries. Wiring was off and charge voltage too high for 16 cells at 3.2v nominal.

I don't understand the part about wiring being off. Kindly explain.

On the charging, the nominal voltages of LFP cell are 3.2v, 12.8v, 25.6v or 51.2v. The maximum recommended charging voltages are 3.65v, 14.6v, 29.2v and 58.4v. So, Felicity charge voltage looks okay to me.

odimbannamdi:
Guys, does using a 24v inverter confer some sort of efficiency advantage as regards runtime, compare to a 12v inverter system?

Based on that, what is the projected run time for a 400ah (200 × 2) bank using a 12v and a 24v inverter system?

Yes. Higher voltage means greater efficiency. If your setup is small, the advantage in terms of runtime may be minimal, but advantages in terms of wire costs, breaker costs etc. may be worth considering.

adrusa:


Yes. Higher voltage means greater efficiency. If your setup is small, the advantage in terms of runtime may be minimal, but advantages in terms of wire costs, breaker costs etc. may be worth considering.

Thanks for the response, sir. Regarding the emboldened, setup is 2 units of 200ah batteries, and intended load in wattage is 300w max. Let me know if you need any other info for better advise.

Also, do you imply that i will need thicker wires and possibly breakers for a 12v system, as opposed to a 24v system?

Finally, could you please help me put things in perspective by possibly giving an estimate on how long a 300w load on 400ah bank will last on a 12v and 24v system.

Thanks

odimbannamdi:


Thanks for the response, sir. Regarding the emboldened, setup is 2 units of 200ah batteries, and intended load in wattage is 300w max. Let me know if you need any other info for better advise.

Also, do you imply that i will need thicker wires and possibly breakers for a 12v system, as opposed to a 24v system?

Finally, could you please help me put things in perspective by possibly giving an estimate on how long a 300w load on 400ah bank will last on a 12v and 24v system.

Thanks

With 300W maximum, you really won't see much difference. For 300W system, 12V is just fine, very little or no advantage in going 24v except you are thinking of future expansion. And yes, you will need thicker wire and higher rated breakers for 12v compared to 24v as current passing through your wire and breaker will be twice of what it is in 24v for12v. For your 300W, max current will be 25A for 12v, 12.5A for 24v and 6.25 for 48v.

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Quick update to the house. Over the last week, I picked up 6 used 200w solar panels from Valto. Deal went well.

I also purchased the 12v DC iron from justemmanuel. Deal also went well. The DC iron heats up just fine. Not enough to burn a cloth but a considerable alternative to using gen to iron.

Thanks to both of them

Dkev:


How did you arrive at 20naira per Kwh for production without storage? I want to understand how that calculation is done. it seems too cheap to be true. what would then be the cost per Kwh with storage?

Take a 1kw small home solar panel system which generates roughly 800 kwh per year and around 16,000 kwh over its lifetime.

Cost of the panels is 200,000. Inverter and mppt another 150k. Divide 350,000 by 16, 000 kwh and that's the cost of your solar production or 22 naira per kwh.

In comparison Nigerian power plants sell gas generated electricity at 18 naira per kwh.

For storage assume that a 24v 200ah lithium battery like felicitys has 3000 cycles and stores 14,400 kwh over its lifetime. It costs 430k naira or 30 naira per kwh. A 24v 200ah lead acid deep cycle battery bank discharged at 50% daily with 1,800 cycles stores 4,320 kwh over its lifetime and costs roughly 300k or 69 naira per kwh.

Combine the two and power with solar and storage costs anywhere from 52 naira to 91 naira per kwh with huge capital costs.


Lesson 1 is that PRODUCING solar is vastly cheaper than STORING it and Lesson 2 is that it requires deep pockets with patience.

It's not a wonder that companies have jumped in to build large solar pv plants worldwide to produce electricity at record lows. In the middle east the feed in tariff hit 1.35 us cent per kwh in places like UAE or 6.2 naira per kwh.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/04/28/abu-dhabis-2-gw-tender-draws-world-record-solar-bid-of-0-0135-kwh/

What it means is that eventually there will be a surplus of power during daytime hours in Nigeria and it benefits business, offices and schools mostly.

Place your orders now 56inc DC calling fan available na small money ooo
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mktinsight:



For storage assume that a 24v 200ah lithium battery like felicitys has 3000 cycles and stores 14,400 kwh over its lifetime. It costs 430k naira or 30 naira per kwh. A 24v 200ah lead acid deep cycle battery bank discharged at 50% daily with 1,800 cycles stores 4,320 kwh over its lifetime and costs roughly 300k or 69 naira per kwh. .

I hope the highlighted is indeed an assumption and not the reality

1. Good morning guys, does exposing panels to sun without connecting it to battery simply because I won’t be around for a while reduce it’s lifespan?

2.the peak average amps the panels produces when i Just bought it is 9.0 amps but it hardly reaches 4.0 amps these days does anybody has an explanation for that, or what am I not doing right