I am watching a program right now and there are geologist, scientist, researchers and all forms of various international organisation who are expert on earthquake and movement of the earth etc all presenting views based on facts, records and known science. One that have proved beyond what anyone around will say is the fact that there was a warning couple of years back. This was based on facts and observation of the earth plains and fault that forms Haiti. Please read below.

Scientists who detected worrisome signs of growing stresses in the fault that unleashed this week's devastating earthquake in Haiti said Thursday they warned officials there two years ago that their country was ripe for a major earthquake.

Their sobering findings, presented during a geological conference in March 2008 and at meetings two months later, showed that the fault was capable of causing a 7.2-magnitude earthquake - slightly stronger than Tuesday's 7.0 quake that rocked the impoverished country.

Though Haitian officials listened intently to the research, the nearly two years between the presentation and the devastating quake was not enough time for Haiti to have done much to have prevented the massive destruction.

"It's too short of a timeframe to really do something, particularly for a country like Haiti, but even in a developed country it's very difficult to start very big operations in two years," said Eric Calais, a professor of geophysics at Purdue University.

Their conclusions also lacked a specific timeframe that could have prodded quick action to shore up the hospitals, schools and other buildings that collapsed and crumbled Tuesday, said Paul Mann, a senior research scientist at the University of Texas' Institute for Geophysics.

At the time of the earthquake, which the international Red Cross estimates killed 45,000 to 50,000 people, Haiti was still trying to recover from a string catastrophes. In 2008 alone, it was hit four times by tropical storms and hurricanes. The country also suffers from a string of social ills including poverty, unstable governments and poor building standards that make buildings vulnerable in earthquakes.

"Haiti's government has so many other problems that when you give sort of an unspecific prediction about an earthquake threat they just don't have the resources to deal with that sort of thing," Mann said.

In March 2008, Calais and Mann were among a group of scientists who presented findings on the major quake risk along the Enriquillo fault during the conference in the Dominican Republic, which shares the island of Hispaniola with Haiti. Their conclusions were based both on geologic work Mann conducted along the same fault and recent findings by Calais.

Calais had detected rising stresses along the fault using global positioning system measurements that showed that the Earth's crust in the area where the fault traverses southern Haiti was slowly deforming as pressure grew within the fault.

That pressure, paired with Mann's work and the fact that the last major quake in the area was in 1770, led to the prediction that the fault could produce a 7.2-magnitude temblor.

Calais said he also presented the findings to officials in Haiti during a series of meetings in May 2008 that included the country's prime minister and other high-ranking officials. He said he stressed to the officials that if they did nothing else they should at least begin reinforcing hospitals, schools and key government buildings to weather a strong quake.

"We were taken very seriously but unfortunately it didn't translate into action," he said. "The reality is that it was too short of a timeframe to really do something, particularly for a country like Haiti struggling with so many problems."

Calais said Haiti has no seismic stations for monitoring quake activity, while adjoining Dominican Republic has a small seismic network.

Although the specific risks of the fault zone near Haiti's capital, Port-au-Prince, may not have been known until recent years, the region has a long history of major earthquakes, said Carol Prentice, a U.S. Geological Survey research geologist based in Menlo Park, Calif.

Those include earthquakes that destroyed Jamaica's capital, Kingston, in 1692 and 1907, that also occurred along the Enriquillo fault, which extends hundreds of miles through the Dominican Republic, Haiti and Jamaica.

She said Calais' GPS studies were the first along the fault to quantify the potential quake risk in the heavily populated Port-au-Prince area.

Prentice said she, Calais and Mann had sought U.S. government funding over the years for detailed excavations in southern Haiti to document evidence of past quakes in soil layers along the fault but that work has not yet been funded.

"It's entirely possible that we'll see additional quakes along this fault in the years to come. But we really don't know the risk if those studies aren't done," she said.

http://www.physorg.com/news182753713.html

Any one who wants to question these people, should at least do so logically.

PS
If anyone suggest once again that the US are responsible or give any idea that may suggest so, they need to be laughed at to be honest.

So far we have seen road destroyed in "rippled effect". This flies in the face of claims made by some Nairalanders. There are even deep fault lines similar to San andreas fault line.

Still thinking it is man made? Not a chance!

PS
I am writing these as am watching so bear with me. Will update some more.

An image of SA fault line.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://geology.com/articles/images/san-andreas-fault-map.jpg&imgrefurl=http://geology.com/articles/san-andreas-fault.shtml&h=750&w=711&sz=336&tbnid=qz2tBU7ysGL5qM:&tbnh=231&tbnw=219&prev=/images%3Fq%3DSan%2Bandreas%2Bfault%2Bline&hl=en&usg=__Ti6m6eGsG9ZgL0bAwlWbbzb64No=&ei=FJdoS_KIBqai0gTl0uSzCA&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=2&ct=image&ved=0CAcQ9QEwAQ

One of the reasons there was so much damage according to experts is what is known as "amplification". This means that as the earthquake ripples travels away from the rocks or fault plain, there is a massive increase in the "ripple effect" [hence amplification].

This effect means that buildings and structures that are built on rocks or close to the base of the rock will receive less damage, while those on lose soil or away from the fault line will suffer much damage as a result. In the case of Haiti, most of the house and its structure are around the "soft sediments" area hence the devastating damage.

The program is still on going and will try and post as much as I cant.

Oh it any one is in the UK, you can watch it online at Ch4 website. It is entitled "Haiti's Killer quake: Why it happened".

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/4od

At least those who have sprouted all sort of drivel about the US involvement can watch it.

Oh another reason there are so much damage is that some of the buildings examined have little or not steel in them. There are plenty concrete but little steel and according to experts these can mean a difference between a building staying up or collapsing.

I also remember making a reference to houses built in Japan are made specifically to protect against tremors.

Still thinking the US have a hand in all of these? God punish you for evening thinking that.

One of the contact details of the Professor that gave an expert opinion.

Professor Bill McGuire

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/es/people/mcguire.htm

Director of the Benfield UCL Hazard Research Centre





w.mcguire@ucl.ac.uk

Tel: 020 7679 3449

Research Interests

Geodetic monitoring of active volcanoes; volcano instability and collapse; volcanoes and environmental change; volcanic hazards and their mitigation; volcanic emergency protocols and procedures; low frequency-high magnitude geophysical hazards.

Courses Taught

GEOL1004 Dynamic Earth

Homepage:

http://www.abuhrc.org/newsmedia/Pages/affiliate_view.aspx?affiliate=11

I will add more people as their details are posted up.

Or could this be one big ruse by the US to convince us all?

Whatever you guys - Yeah am talking to you guys, you know who you are! - are smoking, you need to give it up.

http://quake.usgs.gov/research/deformation/modeling/people/ross.html

Ross Stein

My research focuses upon how earthquakes interact through the transfer of stress. Examples of such interaction include the progression of mainshocks along a fault, aftershocks, seismic quiesence, and earthquake clustering. My collaborators and I are interested in how one earthquake can promote subsequent shocks at some sites and inhibit them in others

Here is his CV [resume]

http://quake.usgs.gov/research/deformation/modeling/refs/Ross_resume.html

He clearly knows what he is talking about.


Let us see this morons challenge him. In fact, I am taking the liberty of sending him an email with a link to those silly threads. I mean, we are already perceived as Fraudsters, it won't do no more damage if some of us are perceived as idiot and illogical fools, especially those we have pointed suspicious finger at the US. 

Na lie, that man is a CIA agent saying what they want him to say.

USA is evil, the caused the earthquake in haiti and have kidnapped Nigeria's president ya'radua to implant a microchip in his brain.

This will make him an American puppet and he'll be controlled to let AFRICOM into Nigeria and hand over our oil fields to the white house. . . .phew!

Lol.

Anyone managed to catch back on the program yet? Especially, those who may have been poisoned by the claims made by Horus, Negro_Ntns and sammilla?

ElRazur:

Lol.

Anyone managed to catch back on the program yet? Especially, those who may have been poisoned by the claims made by Horus, Negro_Ntns and sammilla?

yes i watched the first few minutes and had to switch off because i realised that this documentary is being put out to quell any current feelings of suspicion that most people have about this earthquake.

i would prefer to do my own independent research before listening to supposed scientific evidence which may or may not be bogus.

im still researching this issue and shall get back to you later.

Yes cap28 has come to answer roll call. . . I was wondering where he might be.

@cap28
we already know what the result of your 'research' is gonna be, don't we?

cap28:

yes i watched the first few minutes and had to switch off because i realised that this documentary is being put out to quell any current feelings of suspicion that most people have about this earthquake.

i would prefer to do my own independent research before listening to supposed scientific evidence which may or may not be bogus.

im still researching this issue and shall get back to you later.

So let me get this straight, simply because it do not go well with your thinking and ideas, you opted to turn if off after a few minutes? And you are suppose to provide a counter argument to it? You are the very definition of an ignorant person am afraid. Despite all the outlandish stuff you posted along side others, I had to read them and take them in then make my own counter arguments. You see, that is how to learn. Jeez man, where is the logic?

How many people have such suspicions if we do a head count, there is just less the 10 of you who are vocal about it on NL and a very lesser figures who aint vocal. So tell me who are these people? The Russians who are clearly anti-west and will post any propaganda to support their claims, are these the people you are talking about?

What independent research are you doing? If you call using materials that are not based on facts but suspicions and crazy theories, then I am afraid, that is not the kind of research you can bring around here. We want facts and nothing but facts. By the way, can we have your qualification or CV on since you are doing an "independent" research. What a joke.

Please get back to me, I will be waiting. I mean, It was about four of you before and now one of you have decided to phuck off. I guess one down, three more to go.

ElRazur:

So let me get this straight, simply because it do not go well with your thinking and ideas, you opted to turn if off after a few minutes? And you are suppose to provide a counter argument to it? You are the very definition of an ignorant person am afraid. Despite all the outlandish stuff you posted along side others, I had to read them and take them in then make my own counter arguments. You see, that is how to learn. Jeez man, where is the logic?

err no - i turned it off because i prefer to make my own mind up about what actually caused the earthquake rather than be fed information by a mainstream tv station which is known for spouting propaganda.  you see unlike you El razur i actually think for myself as opposed to letting others do the thinking for me. 

How many people have such suspicions if we do a head count, there is just less the 10 of you who are vocal about it on NL and a very lesser figures who aint vocal. So tell me who are these people? The Russians who are clearly anti-west and will post any propaganda to support their claims, are these the people you are talking about?

actually if you ventured out of your little closed world and had a look on other websites you would find that there's a whole world of people out there who are highly suspicious of what caused the haiti earthquake, however i understand that  you are not used to engaging in intelligent debate and therefore instead of looking at alternative arguments you resort to abuse and foul language - sooo immature!!!

What independent research are you doing? If you call using materials that are not based on facts but suspicions and crazy theories, then I am afraid, that is not the kind of research you can bring around here. We want facts and nothing but facts. By the way, can we have your qualification or CV on since you are doing an "independent" research. What a joke.

okay let me break it to you - inquisitive minds do not rely on only one source of information, they read, access online library materials, consult specialist texts - this is known as research which is obviously an alien concept to you.  only someone of low intellectual ability would rely on one source to base an argument especially if that source were a mainstream media outlet which has a track record of being a govt mouthpiece. 

Please get back to me, I will be waiting. I mean, It was about four of you before and now one of you have decided to phuck off. I guess one down, three more to go.

yeah ill get back to you alright but i sense i will be wasting my time as you sound as if youve got a few screws loose - but ill see how it goes 

cap28:

err no - i turned it off because i prefer to make my own mind up about what actually caused the earthquake rather than be fed information by a mainstream tv station which is known for spouting propaganda.  you see unlike you El razur i actually think for myself as opposed to letting others do the thinking for me. 

No. Please be at least upfront. You turned it off because it do not go with your alleged views that is all.

Do you know what propaganda means? Here: "Propaganda is information, often inaccurate information, which a political organization publishes or broadcasts in order to influence people"

From the evidences presented based on science and what we know, plus the amount of expert in there, it is safe to say these are accurate information and facts, so it won't be a propaganda of any kind.

Please explain to me how you think for yourself in these particular issue when you know little or nothing about earthquakes, or the science behind them? Perhaps I am making a hasty assumptions. What are you credentials? For the record, I am a Biomedical Scientist.

actually if you ventured out of your little closed world and had a look on other websites you would find that there's a whole world of people out there who are highly suspicious of what caused the haiti earthquake, however i understand that  you are not used to engaging in intelligent debate and therefore instead of looking at alternative arguments you resort to abuse and foul language - sooo immature!!!

I read information posted by you, I read information posted by others and responded. How am I in a closed world? You turned off a program you are supposed to counter with facts, surely all fingers point at you as the little minded one?
YOu are right though, there will be your types out there, after all people are still sprouting conspiracy theory as to how the Moon landing was faked.

I am not sure about this abuse and foul language you are talking about. Can you point one at me? Or are you gonna stick to the issue at hand instead of trying to bicker?

okay let me break it to you - inquisitive minds do not rely on only one source of information, they read, access online library materials, consult specialist texts - this is known as research which is obviously an alien concept to you.  only someone of low intellectual ability would rely on one source to base an argument especially if that source were a mainstream media outlet which has a track record of being a govt mouthpiece. 

Please stop making a mockery of yourself. There is nothing inquisitive about your mind, if there was you won't turn off the documentary after just a few minutes.

Low intellectual ability? Lmao. I won't even dignify that with a reply.

Oh please give me a break, what online library resource do you use? Do you even base you arguments on facts or suspicions and phobia of the Great Satan USA? Don't make me laugh! What good are these so called informations you have access to if none of them are based on facts?

yeah ill get back to you alright but i sense i will be wasting my time as you sound as if youve got a few screws loose - but ill see how it goes 

I am STILL waiting. Oh and you are supposed to be the one with the High IQ right? Anyway, please bring your ultimate facts.

Will these people please come forward with their proofs? Or are they giving it up and hanging their gloves?

Still no "alternative facts" are forth coming?



In the mean time, the US have tested the same HARRRP weapon in their own backyard. You can always trust the Americans to minimize the damage in their own back yard.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/02/quake-like-tremors-reported-in-western-suburbs.html

Cap28, I agree with you 100%. Last weekend, I felt an earthquake in my bedroom. I knew it was Obama's CIA agents after me because I have been criticizing him. These Yanks will go to any length to attack anyone.

4 Play:

Cap28, I agree with you 100%. Last weekend, I felt an earthquake in my bedroom. I knew it was Obama's CIA agents after me because I have been criticizing him. These Yanks will go to any length to attack anyone.

I think it is the unbalanced bed of yours that is rocking again. Lol. Mind you, the CIA was the reason it was rocking in the first place.

ElRazur:

I am watching a program right now and there are geologist, scientist, researchers and all forms of various international organisation who are expert on earthquake and movement of the earth etc all presenting views based on facts, records and known science. One that have proved beyond what anyone around will say is the fact that there was a warning couple of years back. This was based on facts and observation of the earth plains and fault that forms Haiti.

How dare you suggest that the earthquake was a natural phenomenon? How dare you suggest common sense be utilised? How dare you suggest that we act educated? How dare you suggest that the US hasn't been causing earthquakes from the dawn of time with their secreat weapons and time machine? How very dare you?

Horus, Negro_Ntns, Sammilla, and "the others", are you going to stand for this travesty?

ElRazur:

No. Please be at least upfront. You turned it off because it do not go with your alleged views that is all.

Do you know what propaganda means? Here: "Propaganda is information, often inaccurate information, which a political organization publishes or broadcasts in order to influence people"

From the evidences presented based on science and what we know, plus the amount of expert in there, it is safe to say these are accurate information and facts, so it won't be a propaganda of any kind.

Please explain to me how you think for yourself in these particular issue when you know little or nothing about earthquakes, or the science behind them? Perhaps I am making a hasty assumptions. What are you credentials? For the record, I am a Biomedical Scientist.

Did you just seriously ask that? Ofcourse he has a degree in the Internet.

ElRazur:

I read information posted by you, I read information posted by others and responded. How am I in a closed world? You turned off a program you are supposed to counter with facts, surely all fingers point at you as the little minded one?
YOu are right though, there will be your types out there, after all people are still sprouting conspiracy theory as to how the Moon landing was faked.

I am not sure about this abuse and foul language you are talking about. Can you point one at me? Or are you gonna stick to the issue at hand instead of trying to bicker?

_ _ _

Oh please give me a break, what online library resource do you use? Do you even base you arguments on facts or suspicions and phobia of the Great Satan USA? Don't make me laugh! What good are these so called informations you have access to if none of them are based on facts?

I am STILL waiting. Oh and you are supposed to be the one with the High IQ right? Anyway, please bring your ultimate facts.

Common I think we both know common sense is so last year. It's no longer about facts, Hollywood has seen to that. It is now more about plausible stories.

Mariory:

How dare you suggest that the earthquake was a natural phenomenon? How dare you suggest common sense be utilised? How dare you suggest that we act educated? How dare you suggest that the US hasn't been causing earthquakes from the dawn of time with their secreat weapons and time machine? How very dare you?

Horus, Negro_Ntns, Sammilla, and "the others", are you going to stand for this travesty?

Sorry o no vex. I heard it was a weapon called HARRP. After all, the Russian military who are completely unbiased about the West said so. So it must be true!

Negro_Ntns gave his quit thread somewhere around here. I have a feeling he is gone[s] but reincarnated in the body of another account.[/s]

I was hoping Cap28 would at least come back with facts to defend his view point - well at least he said he would be back.

Mariory:

Did you just seriously ask that? Ofcourse he has a degree in the Internet.

Common I think we both know common sense is so last year. It's no longer about facts, Hollywood has seen to that. It is now more about plausible stories.

I see, lol. I only have HND when it comes to internet but I have a feeling I can give him a run for his money.

It is crazy isn't people actually hold on to view points like those of the posters you mentioned and THEN take it into a debate as a fact. It may be good for a beer parlour or Pub house debate, but on the internet? Give me a break lol.

^^ @ el razur

as per your signature

Nigeria- God's very own toilet

what do you think comes out of God's behind?

the same sort of stuff coming out of yours?

Both positions may not be mutually exclusive, as an underground detonation may have catalyzed the quake.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/faq/?categoryID=12&faqID=88

biina:

Both positions may not be mutually exclusive, as an underground detonation may have catalyzed the quake.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/faq/?categoryID=12&faqID=88

Yeah and no radioactive material fall out? No. Erm Okay. BTW Welcome back.

I just find it ridiculous when people tend to think the US is responsible. Even there are no proof further coming.

ElRazur:

Yeah and no radioactive material fall out? No. Erm Okay. BTW Welcome back.

I just find it ridiculous when people tend to think the US is responsible. Even there are no proof further coming.

radio active fallout where? the shockwaves will travel well beyond the point of detonation e.g 1000Km, while radioactivity will be more localized (else the whole world would have been contaminated by now).
As long we are not privy to the details of relevant US military operations, it would always be an inconclusive argument which does not make either side right or wrong. The seismologist and geologist have only said that the fault line was ripe for picking, and cannot say if the fruit dropped of its own will or was plucked by an unseen hand.

biina:

radio active fallout where? the shockwaves will travel well beyond the point of detonation e.g 1000Km, while radioactivity will be more localized (else the whole world would have been contaminated by now).
As long we are not privy to the details of relevant US military operations, it would always be an inconclusive argument which does not make either side right or wrong. The seismologist and geologist have only said that the fault line was ripe for picking, and cannot say if the fruit dropped of its own will or was plucked by an unseen hand.

You are one funny guy. So a nuclear explosion under ground was carried out exactly where? I suspect underground water analysis should be throwing up all sort of contaminants etc.

We do not need to have access to certain information before one can conclude on that the US do not have a hand in what have happened to haiti.  I suppose given your knowledge, you know better than the expert and can paint a picture of suspicion?

The expert have stated [see link I posted] that is an earthquake [and nothing man-made about it]. No?

Further more, you theory of an underground explosion may be flawed. The ripple effect and amplification will leave behind a trail of destruction from the point of detonation. How this will travel 1000 of miles seem shaky to be honest.


You also left this bit out.

One last point. The largest underground thermonuclear tests conducted by the US were detonated in Amchitka at the western end of the Aleutian Islands and the largest of these was the 5 megaton codename Cannikin test which occurred on November 6, 1971. Cannikin had a body wave magnitude of 6.9 and it did not trigger any earthquakes in the seismically active Aleutian Islands.

Nice try Binna.

ElRazur:

You are one funny guy. So a nuclear explosion under ground was carried out exactly where? I suspect underground water analysis should be throwing up all sort of contaminants etc.

At no point did I say a nuclear explosion being sole cause of the earthquake, rather simply said that the statements of the geologist does not rule out such an event catalyzing the quake

We do not need to have access to certain information before one can conclude on that the US do not have a hand in what have happened to haiti.  I suppose given your knowledge, you know better than the expert and can paint a picture of suspicion?

You need to know the 'when' and 'what' off the events before you can do a proper analysis of cause and effect. I assume you have heard of the butterfly effect which is at the extreme of the spectrum in chaos theory.

The expert have stated [see link I posted] that is an earthquake [and nothing man-made about it]. No?

No. They only state that the region was at the risk of experiencing an earthquake. They have said nothing categorical about what triggered it. With resonance, even a small seismic event can result in a major earthquake.

Further more, you theory of an underground explosion may be flawed. The ripple effect and amplification will leave behind a trail of destruction from the point of detonation. How this will travel 1000 of miles seem shaky to be honest.

No offense meant, but you dont seem to know much about such things. Wave propagation in any medium is not necessarily permanently disruptivee.g. beating on a table generates sound waves that does not necessarily destroy the table.

You also left this bit out.

left out? I linked to the entire article as a source on the issue of relating nuclear detonation to seismic activities. You are free to reach your own conclusions.

Nice try Binna.

At what? You sound paranoid. Guess you were looking for someone to argue, but sorry I dont have time for a pointless debate with you.

biina:

At no point did I say a nuclear explosion being sole cause of the earthquake, rather simply said that the statements of the geologist does not rule out such an event catalyzing the quake

I suggest reading the links and watch the videos provided. They cannot be clearer.

You need to know the 'when' and 'what' off the events before you can do a proper analysis of cause and effect. I assume you have heard of the butterfly effect which is at the extreme of the spectrum in chaos theory.

I suppose the people who are experts and presented their own findings clearly do not know what they are talking about? No?

No. They only state that the region was at the risk of experiencing an earthquake. They have said nothing categorical about what triggered it. .

Again go and read the link again. From the top of my head, Haiti lies on a fault plain, so the issue of what causes the earthquake is obvious.

No offense meant, but you dont seem to know much about such things. Wave propagation in any medium is not necessarily permanently disruptivee.g. beating on a table generates sound waves that does not necessarily destroy the table.

Unlike you, I do not pretend to know and sprout non-sense am afraid. For examples, you have stated above that "With resonance, even a small seismic event can result in a major earthquake" and in the same breathe stated that "Wave propagation in any medium is not necessarily permanently disruptive". Yet you left out factors such as amplification, ripple effect, the fact that Haiti is build literally on a fault plain etc. I suppose on one hand you are suggesting and on the other hand saying otherwise. Right, excellent display of how much you know.

left out? I linked to the entire article as a source on the issue of relating nuclear detonation to seismic activities. You are free to reach your own conclusions.

Yes. Your original post in relation to the quoted article was suggesting an underground detonation may be responsible. Yet in the same link provided to support your claim, it did state that one was done without resulting to any earthquake - even in a region prone to one. So your original point is more or less useless and not worth taking up further. That is my point and come to think of it, I am not so sure you read the article in question.

At what? You sound paranoid. Guess you were looking for someone to argue, but sorry I dont have time for a pointless debate with you.

Nice try and trying to suggest it could have been an underground explosion. Remember, you are clearly "more knowledgeable" on this issue. So I guess underground water contamination as a result of Nuclear explosion would be easily detected on analysis should be something that means something to you. No? Here: www.drenet.dnd.ca/BASIS/pcandid/www/engpub/DDW?W">http://pubs-www.drenet.dnd.ca/BASIS/pcandid/www/engpub/DDW?W%3DAUTHOR+%3D+%27Faucher%2C+D.%27%26M%3D2%26K%3D521796%26U%3D1

I suppose challenging each other intellectually is perhaps not your kind of thing? No one is looking to "argue" with you. And as for you stating paranoia, I won't even dignify that with a reply.

Just as a recap what you originally link to is not conclusively saying underground detonation are responsible for earthquake, how ever it is examining a possible link and relation to increased seismic and earthquake like activities with the test carried out then. Also, it stated clearly there are other external factors like the daily seismic activities that occurs naturally may have been a contributing factor.

How one can hold on to that as some sort of proof is beyond me or even attempt to use that to question known facts is just weird.