₦airaland Forum

chizagi:
I wish to take total responsibility for the varience in design for the doors i supplied to @3him3n, this is a mistake, an avoidable mistake. I promise to do better next time, to ensure that the exact design requested is the exact design supplied. I also want to request that in the spirit of one love that @3him3n deletes the initial post with details of the transaction.

Thanks to everyone that showed concern and made effort to resolve this matter, God bless us all.

Appeal accepted.
Request granted.
We owe ourselves to hold oneself to higher standard.

adanny01:
Your no 5 has said it all.

The person who brought this issue here is the one who should answer the questions or sort it.

Forget, it has played out already. Its either the accuser answers the questions or he lets it slide. His choice.

Seems you deliberately trying to be mischievous.
Are you not the defence lawyer of the seller again?
So all the statements you have made about the transaction were self fabricated?
Im seriously interested in understanding how you tick?

adanny01:
Majority Peace

Am I @ war with anyone?

Of course you know those first two statements arent referring to you.

adanny01:


See what you are doing to yourself.

See how you described someone you called a fraud and criminal with the bolded. The same person who defrauded and you branded a criminal is non confrontational, mature and and humble.

Why the hell did you come here to call him all the names? Who is confrontational, immature and proud? It is definitely not him!

You see when majority say make peace.
You give peace a chance.
You missing the point again.
One needs wisdom to direct.

adanny01:
I am sure if my stance was biased for the buyer, this comment of yours wont suffice. If no be me buy or sell market, which be your own? Abi you own the market? Is the market on Nairaland, why is the matter here?

Remove the name calling until he cant prove it but no, he wants the name calling to stick without fully exploring conflict resolution. Its wrong and i strongly stand against wrong doings.



The seller is not happy with my comments, the buyer is not happy with my comments too, whose side do you think i am?

I laugh at your conflict resolution.
You are creating more conflict here.
@jceesquare approach was masterclass.
He proposed 2 options to resolve my grievances and subtly added later it maybe helpful if i can contribute...of course i dont agree to contribute cos that will be reinforcing the bad behaviour.
@chizagi approach was non-confrontational, mature and humble. He cant go wrong with those combo.
However, your body language seems to support the deed while at the same time unwittingly indicting the seller...in your so many contradictions have established intent to defraud.

adanny01:
Bros, from your 1st post on the matter, the was very few details, i aked for details. Your reply wasn't detailed and i asked again, but even yet, your details were still economical.

In court, if you dont give details of your case, you will lose not because you are not right but because you are not for coming with details.

When a girl is raped, if she decides not to tell anyone, how will she get justice?

When I see jungle justice, do you expect me to pour petrol and light fire without being sure of what he is accused of. You accuse me of bias because what exactly you expect me to be is to be bias on your own side which i wont. You either state the facts or stop calling someone a fraud or criminal.

The goods he supplied you is worth the amount on your invoice until you reject them. Did you reject? If not, why call him a fraud? If yes, then the ball is in his court and i would not.face you, would then face him.

I have no problem with you.
You are not the only one in this forum who have commented for or against. How you approach issues matter so you dont end up complicating the issues.
I dont need you to support me, i go to court i can assure you i have very competent lawyers.
I found it distasteful, insensitive and arrogant telling me i am over reacting. I can react however i chose and you have no right to tell me that.

adanny01:
Convince me. Why have you been economical with the facts?

The guy messed up, what has happened between you two that you are not saying? From your first post, like we've been begging you for details. Spill it lets be in the same page with you.

I have refused to assume ir take sides cos i have noticed grey areas in you account and he is not engaging you. Why cant you embrace peace.

You have assumed the position of the seller defence lawyer.
I dont need to convince you.
You lost my trust the moment you expressed bias and displayed poor emotional intelligence as a mediator.
Go master the rule of thumb of mediation.
It is interesting to see you jump to conclusion with limited information.
I have worked with better lawyers.

adanny01:
Thank you for the compliments.

It is absolutely correct that some dealers would intentionally supply you a variant of the same thing for reasons best known to them.

In this case, for supplying a right swing stainless steel door instead of a left swing even when the supplier had the building plan, i agree the seller made an error. Am unforgivable one at that. That the error is intentional or not is what i cannot prove and i would not assume that he supplied that door intentionally. It is wrong to assume that the seller did intentionally without knowing if he had in stock the left swing door or not. A case of fraud would have assumed the seller did intentionally.

For supplying dented doors, we still cannot assume it was intentional because the doors traveled from Lagos to Edo, they could have been damaged on transit. It is wrong to assume that the seller supplied damaged doors intentionally.

For supplying a wrong pattern or colour of doors, i also think it could be a misconception or miscommunication since it wasn't written on the invoice. When you show me a door sample and i said, yes i love this one, the problem is that i didnt see all the colours and all the patterns. The seller may have not paid attention to the particular colour or the particular pattern but has focused on the particular quality and spec since they all cost the same in that range. I have seen the seller mention Oak, it does happen that due to manufacturing, the shade of oak can be different to the sample or due to a picture the hue will be different to the eyes. There are several possibilities that we cannot also say 100% that the seller supplied the wrong pattern or colour intentionally.

Let me tell you my experiences, I wore a wrong colour of suit on my wedding day. I saw a black one in the boutique and asked him to bring grey for me, he delivered a brown suit 1 week to my wedding and it will take more than a week to get the right one. I have bought the same doors as op before but in my case, i was at the showroom physically. I requested for a right swing turkey door which i confirmed before loading on the vehicle. I bought also 8 panel doors with frames. When they were about to load, i proceeded to check. The 8 doors were the same product but they were 5 different patterns of which 2 were different colours which i rejected. They had to match my demands. The frames also had 3 wrong colours and they were all left swing. I corrected all that too. I bought a lot of tiles by viewing samples at the showroom and where loaded on to the truck from their ware house using the carton colour codes. When i got home, i discovered that my particular choice of kitchen tiles was exactly what i chose but it had 2 vertical lines that didn't exist on the sample. I had 1 whole carton of 6x6 tiles broken diagonally apart from the ones chipped at edges. Every other tile had several complete cartons broken due to the careless driver. On the bathroom floor tiles, i found 1 cartoon that was the same colour but had a no pattern. I found about 2 cartons with different colours. The 5 complete set WC I bought, 1 had a broken flushing mechanism.

The point is, even when i was physically there and made my choice, even double checked before it was loaded, i still had a few things wrong. I rejected some, I accepted some and replaced some (flush mechanism) besides having a lot of cartons of tiles broken on transit without calling the supplier a criminal or fraudstar.

I am not defending the seller nor castigating the buyer or either way, i am saying the transaction cannot be proven as fraud or criminal breach of trust. I am saying its a common error which happens intentionally and non intentionally. The best approach is to reject the wrong supply and manage the ones he can and then encourage the seller by means of subsidy if affordable without insisting on fraud and criminal breach of trust.

You have used the seller, by your experience, is he a criminal or a fraudstar? If you were defrauded by the seller then its even better, we can generally assume he is used to fraud.

It is difficult ignoring you.
Stop making unfounded statements.
There are sufficient evidence to prove the deed was intentional.
I repeat you dont have the facts of the case.
Just let sleeping dog lie.
Attitude like yours could force ones hand to test the law on this case.
Comment by others has shown Nigeria has hope.
@chizagi has expressed regret that counts for something.

chizagi:
The panel door has a slight circle design at the top, but same dark walnut you requested for.

So you saying these 2 designs are similar?

jceesquare:
Sir I would suggest you put a call through to him and decide on how to resolve this.
2 possibly ways of fixing it are.
1. Returning the defective doors for the right one.
2. Supplier offset the balance for the door and buyer keeps it.

We are public forum already.
Let him explain himself here.

jceesquare:
Since the supplier has come out to admit that a door (or more as claimed by buyer) was mistakenly shipped to Edo state, then I believe this can be resolved easily.
Both parties should reach an agreement on how this can be settled amicably.

It was 14 doors that clearly wasn't the design i chose.
Can someone asked him why i wasnt informed before loading, at loading, after loading, during transit, during layover or even after unloading?

chizagi:
Please go ahead and share it, i admitted that one of the doors was not exact design and that was because they were same draft design with the one you chose and are stored together, and the loaders mistake one for another sometimes. I am a 100 percent legitimate business man my brother. I am not a scammer, have never been and will never be.

Let me give you the opportunity to review your statement on 1. Is it only 1 door that wasnt the design i chose?

adanny01:
How do you really wish that this case be resolved?

You dont know me and i dont know you.
I dont wish to have any further conversation with you on this subject.

adanny01:
Fraud is only when their is a financial difference in value.

I wont encourage you to continue arguing like this.
Your client is here.
Guess he can take it from here.

chizagi:
You paid me for 17 units of doors and i supplied 17 units of doors, but one door out of the 17 units was not the exact design you chose, that does not make me a scammer. I have never scammed anyone in my life or in this forum, so many people have patronised me on this forum and are always satisfied. This is totally unfair sir, let God be the judge.

Good to have you here. I dont get easily swayed by calling the name of God in vain.
Should i share screenshot of our WhatsApp engagement here?

adanny01:
Where in the invoice shared by op stated the orientation, colour or design pattern? Fraud is when the financial cost of what was supplied is less than what was agreed.

Does the orientation, colour and design pattern change the cost of the doors? If no, the its not fraud.

The only part that could be fraud is for the doors with dents and if it is proven that the seller sold the doors knowing they were defective right from his warehouse.

You are contradicting yourself. Doing a very poor job defending the seller.

adanny01:
How is it criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain when you pay for a glass stainless steel door with left swing and was supplied with a glass stainless steel door with right swing?

What is the financial gain when both doors cost the same thing? How criminal is it to supply left instead of right, blue instead of green if both are the same price?

To be fraud, their must be intent to defraud and their must be action to defraud.

If we negotiate for a phone that is not present at the negotiation, when i finally deliver the phone to you as agreed but with a broke screen. It is not fraud if the screen was broken on transit to you. It is fraud if i negotiated with you knowing fully well the screen is broken. I had the intention of selling a defective phone.

The 2 doors the op received with dents might have happened between Lagos and Edo. Its not like the 17 doors are all dented.

You have confirmed my exact allegation of fraud by your statements.

adanny01:
I am no seller, i am not selling either services or goods. I have no link whatsoever to the seller. I have no motive to be biased.

Criminal breach of trust or fraud is no small allegation.

Being active in the Autos section of Nairaland, i have seen a lot of fraud cases and your case is not even close to anyone of them. At some point you said you accepted the [b]mistake made by the supplier. [/b]Its not like he collected the money and refused to pick your calls or supply the items. Its not that he collected money for original and supplied fake.

I have agreed with you that, your issues with orientation, colour, physical imperfections and to add now, the design pattern, are valid issues the seller should settle with you. These issues should not be regarded as criminal breach of trust or fraud especially if the quality of products is that which you ordered (except for the physically imperfect doors).

I am not against you, but please, dont say he defrauded you or any of the sort and then talk him into returning the ones that are unacceptable (especially the ones with dents and the wrong orientation).

Dont quote me wrongly to misrepresent fact.
I appreciate if you trying to broker peace here, but your position is unassuming.
Have asked you to enlighten/educate us what qualifies as fraud in online ecommerce transaction. I'm awaiting your post on that.

adanny01:
Yes its better to buy things you can see. I have bought things i have not seen severally especially on Jumia, Konga, Ali Express etc.

One time i bought a shirt from Jumia, the description didn't say it was a slim fit and i wasnt particularly a slim fit. Everything was fine but wont button up. I returned the item telling them their mistake. Did i pay for delivery or return, no.

I am only left to imagine why didnt the op simply reject the items, instead calling fraud. Is this fraud? Does the quality match, i think yes. The issues i see here is orientation, physical imperfections and colour. Which of these amount to fraud? That of colour is can be overlooked, the op overlooked the orientation. What is left is the 2 doors with imperfections.

At this point, op should have explored means to resolve the situation by rejecting the goods that didn't meet the specs and if the seller refused every resolution then he comes here.

Now, 17 doors were ordered, 2 are physically damaged. I say reject. 1 or 2 of the turkey doors have wrong orientation, i say reject. That is 4 of 17. What is wrong with the 13? Do we know? Are they in perfect shape and orientation, then accept them.

If 85k is tp for 17 doors and i rejected 4 which will be taken to Lag and back. Lets assume this cost 80k, it will not be wrong in the interest of peace to say, he will offset the supplier 20k to encourage him to take responsibility of his mistakes. Thats negotiation, i simply asked the op to negotiate a resolution. If the supplier owns up to his responsibility, he should pay in full for tp back and forth. Has the supplier refused to do that?

Can you educate us what qualifies as fraud in online ecommerce transaction?

Hum2020:
Op i understand you why should@chizagi delivered a different doors which was not what they both agree the picture of 1st and 2nd doors is totally different from what the young man oder which very bad of him let say you dont have it in stock you should have informed him or give him a call to notified him that what he ordered is out of stock than sending him a different doors too bad .@ chizagi pls call him so that you both can settle the difference ok

Main cause of my grievances. I must have called him atleast twice on that day while he was loading the items for delivery. He deliberately hid facts of the situation from me only to surprise me and then blame it on his loaders. If he doesnt have capacity for online transaction, he should refrain from doing so. His actions were premeditated and intentional.

adanny01:
I am not saying you must bear any cost. I said negotiate with the seller. He messed up. I am saying support him if he needs financial support to correct it so that your job comes out the way you imagined it.

If you did request for an orientation, then reject the wrong orientation delivered to you. The invoice didn't show that you did anyways. Also, am saying you over reacted.

Your last statement clearly reveals your bias.
Wanted to get your angle, your position is unconfusing.
Like i said you dont have the whole facts of the case.
We have documented conversations for the order.
Thanks for your contribution, anyway.

adanny01:
At least the issue is clearer now.

From the supplied pictures, i have seen imperfections (dents and scratches) with the two steel interior doors. Thats a problem for me as i would say they are not as clean as a new door supply should be. He is responsible for that since you paid him for transportation and they might have been damaged during TP. Also, the door as seen from the order pic is not the same colour as delivered, besides the polythene protection is still on, so you will not see how beautiful it is until its peeled off. Colour was not specified unless you specified exactly as seen.

For the door orientation, even though you never specifically demanded for any of the orientation, by given him the building plan, he should know better to install proper orientation for all your doors.

Having said that and if that is all your observations, i have the opinion that he has the responsibility of satisfying his client which he has failed. Efforts towards satisfactorily finalizing the deal by both of you should have been made if not done already. Due to transportation cost and the fact that you already have settled with the wrong orientation of doors, your allegations have become too heavy and weighty for the case at hand.



Criminal breach of trust is not a case here. Fraud is also not the case here. Lack of integrity is not clear unless the doors are inferior quality.

A door supplier who doesn't know that he needs to install a left swing or right swing door is like a car dealer who doesn't know whether he is selling automatic or manual transmission. He messed up badly but its not fraud or criminal breach of trust.

If doors are not installed, you can negotiate a return of the doors and getting back correct orientation, cleanliness and colour preference. Why i said negotiation is because some of these specs are not in an agreement even though he messed up, you may need to support transportation back and forth. This is my advise.

Dont know what to make of your conclusion and position.
So you suggesting that i borne the cost of his mess?
You have seen scratches and dent but didnt see the difference between the form factor ordered and supplied?
How are you sure we didnt have agreement on door orientation?

adanny01:
What i see in the 1st and 2nd pix is a steel panel door, possibly 750mm and 900mm for bathroom and bedroom resp. What is the difference from the order?

The 2nd is a right swing turkey door. What is the difference from the order apart frm orientation. Did you specify you wanted a left swing but got delivered a right swing?

The invoice contain item specification.
The door openings were specified...even the house floor plan was shared with him.

Though the supplied opening was major miss, i try to manage it.

The main issue is the difference in item supplied. Im sure the pix doesnt look same.

adanny01:
Am still struggling to understand you.

Was the 1st pic delivered instead of the 2nd?

Or

The first was delivered and its different from the order. And the second was delivered a right swing instead of a left swing as ordered?

If its the 2nd case, then what was the order spec for the 1st pix?

What i see in the 1st pix is a steel panel door, what is the difference from the order?

The 2nd is a right swing turkey door. What is the difference from the order apart frm orientation. Did you specify you wanted a left swing but got delivered a right swing?

Im struggling with the text editor here.
The 1st pictures that include a glass steel door is the original order.

The 2nd pictures are what he delivered.

Hum2020:
Op can you please send us what he delivered to you in Benin city so we can see the difference from what you order from him(@chizagi)

Below are what he delivered.

adanny01:
Information on your transaction are few, you need to come up with more details.

I dont doubt your transaction, however, we will like to see samples of your order and pictures of what was delivered. The two doors you posted, are they the sample pics or the delivered items? What exactly is the defects or difference.

Apart from looking for a settlement, we will also learn from this experience which is the basis of this thread.

The pixs below are what was delivered which are totally at variant with the order.

Glassdoor with left opening instead of right opening was delivered,however i excused the mistake for the that one.

diordaves:
Sorry to hear this.

To get a clearer picture of the situation, please post the pictures of your expectations - that is the characteristics of the doors you both agreed on and paid for and what was actually delivered.

There's always the risk of supplies/contractors invoicing for top quality products and actually delivering cheaper versions of the products and then pocket the difference.

It would help to hear from the supplier as well.

The pix below are what was agreed and ordered

Hello House,
Please help me expose this scammer @chizagi to the whole world.

He advertised as seller of original turkey door on NL and i patronise him by making an order to the tune of N614k.

He showed me apples, i selected and paid for apples but he delivered mangoes to my site in Edo state after receipt of payment.

Paid for [img]IMG-20190601-WA0063.jpg[/img] but he delivered [img]IMG-20190611_WA0002.jpg[/img].

He has abused this reputable platform to engage in criminal breach of trust, online ecommerce fraud and obtaining by false pretence.

No one should patronize him or do online business with him.

His transactions is totally devoid of integrity and reaks of fraud.

I have done successful, honest and happy businesses with reputable and notable Nairalanders like @money121.

Have attached evidence of our transaction here.[Deleted upon appeal on humanitarian ground]

Cc:mufutau55