adanny01:


Information on your transaction are few, you need to come up with more details.

I dont doubt your transaction, however, we will like to see samples of your order and pictures of what was delivered. The two doors you posted, are they the sample pics or the delivered items? What exactly is the defects or difference.

Apart from looking for a settlement, we will also learn from this experience which is the basis of this thread.

Hum2020:
Op can you please send us what he delivered to you in Benin city so we can see the difference from what you order from him(@chizagi)

mufutau55:


I have been trying my best to moderate this thread against advertisemenr and scammers. But I cannot do it alone, it takes everyone using this thread to hekp me and come down heavy on those people. I used to have a full power of Moderator on this forum to delete post and sanction the abusers, but that power has been taken-off when I was stripped of the Moderators priviledges. I hate to see sellers, contractors or any dubious person take advantage of this thread and forum to scam anyone.
So, people let's join together and stop all the scammers.

Hajji M.

3him3n:


This pixs below are was delivered which are totally at variant with the order.

Glassdoor with left opening of right opening was delivered, i excused the mistake for the that one.

adanny01:


Am still struggling to understand you.

Was the 1st pic delivered instead of the 2nd?

Or

The first was delivered and its different from the order. And the second was delivered a right swing instead of a left swing as ordered?

If its the 2nd case, then what was the order spec for the 1st pix?

What i see in the 1st pix is a steel panel door, what is the difference from the order?

The 2nd is a right swing turkey door. What is the difference from the order apart frm orientation. Did you specify you wanted a left swing but got delivered a right swing?

adanny01:


What i see in the 1st and 2nd pix is a steel panel door, possibly 750mm and 900mm for bathroom and bedroom resp. What is the difference from the order?

The 2nd is a right swing turkey door. What is the difference from the order apart frm orientation. Did you specify you wanted a left swing but got delivered a right swing?

Hum2020:
I use this medium to call the founder of this forum that i we need the person of Haiji m as our moderate on this forum because we cannot allow scammers gambers on this forum .most of us here have learned fron good people like haiji baba ,spyder880 ,dudemcapital ,Timtol etc when we allow scammers gambers to be advertising on this forum know it that good trust build over the years will be destroyed by bad individuals who did not mean well for we narialand members i will not sit and allowed this evil individuals to have their way because i have gain and understand what it take to be honest and build good relationship with my follow members here so i uesd this medium to ask the founder to check and allowed our beloved Haiji baba to return as the moderator of the forum please i beg do not let what we have collectively builds over they year be destroyed by useless and evil individuals who did not mean well for this forum Thanks

3him3n:


The invoice contain item specification.
The door openings were specified...even the house floor plan was shared with him.

Though the supplied opening was major miss, i try to manage it.

The main issue is the difference in item supplied. Im sure the pix doesnt look same.

He has abused this reputable platform to engage in criminal breach of trust, online ecommerce fraud and obtaining by false pretence.

No one should patronize him or do online business with him.

His transactions is totally devoid of integrity and reaks of fraud.

adanny01:


At least the issue is clearer now.

From the supplied pictures, i have seen imperfections (dents and scratches) with the two steel interior doors. Thats a problem for me as i would say they are not as clean as a new door supply should be. He is responsible for that since you paid him for transportation and they might have been damaged during TP. Also, the door as seen from the order pic is not the same colour as delivered, besides the polythene protection is still on, so you will not see how beautiful it is until its peeled off. Colour was not specified unless you specified exactly as seen.

For the door orientation, even though you never specifically demanded for any of the orientation, by given him the building plan, he should know better to install proper orientation for all your doors.

Having said that and if that is all your observations, i have the opinion that he has the responsibility of satisfying his client which he has failed. Efforts towards satisfactorily finalizing the deal by both of you should have been made if not done already. Due to transportation cost and the fact that you already have settled with the wrong orientation of doors, your allegations have become too heavy and weighty for the case at hand.



Criminal breach of trust is not a case here. Fraud is also not the case here. Lack of integrity is not clear unless the doors are inferior quality.

A door supplier who doesn't know that he needs to install a left swing or right swing door is like a car dealer who doesn't know whether he is selling automatic or manual transmission. He messed up badly but its not fraud or criminal breach of trust.

If doors are not installed, you can negotiate a return of the doors and getting back correct orientation, cleanliness and colour preference. Why i said negotiation is because some of these specs are not in an agreement even though he messed up, you may need to support transportation back and forth. This is my advise.

adanny01:


At least the issue is clearer now.

From the supplied pictures, i have seen imperfections (dents and scratches) with the two steel interior doors. Thats a problem for me as i would say they are not as clean as a new door supply should be. He is responsible for that since you paid him for transportation and they might have been damaged during TP. Also, the door as seen from the order pic is not the same colour as delivered, besides the polythene protection is still on, so you will not see how beautiful it is until its peeled off. Colour was not specified unless you specified exactly as seen.

For the door orientation, even though you never specifically demanded for any of the orientation, by given him the building plan, he should know better to install proper orientation for all your doors.

Having said that and if that is all your observations, i have the opinion that he has the responsibility of satisfying his client which he has failed. Efforts towards satisfactorily finalizing the deal by both of you should have been made if not done already. Due to transportation cost and the fact that you already have settled with the wrong orientation of doors, your allegations have become too heavy and weighty for the case at hand.



Criminal breach of trust is not a case here. Fraud is also not the case here. Lack of integrity is not clear unless the doors are inferior quality.

A door supplier who doesn't know that he needs to install a left swing or right swing door is like a car dealer who doesn't know whether he is selling automatic or manual transmission. He messed up badly but its not fraud or criminal breach of trust.

If doors are not installed, you can negotiate a return of the doors and getting back correct orientation, cleanliness and colour preference. Why i said negotiation is because some of these specs are not in an agreement even though he messed up, you may need to support transportation back and forth. This is my advise.

3him3n:

Dont know what to make of your conclusion and position.
So you suggesting that i borne the cost of his mess?
You have seen scratches and dent but didnt see the difference between the form factor ordered and supplied?
How are you sure we didnt have agreement on door orientation?

adanny01:


I am not saying you must bear any cost. I said negotiate with the seller. He messed up. I am saying support him if he needs financial support to correct it so that your job comes out the way you imagined it.

If you did request for an orientation, then reject the wrong orientation delivered to you. The invoice didn't show that you did anyways. Also, am saying you over reacted.

Cindino20:


he should pay for transportation when the seller did not deliver the right items? I dont understand how and why you expect him to do that.


I understand you trying to mediate and calm the situation down but truth be told the seller of these doors should be held accountable and be made to supply the right items.

The buyer can decide to pay half the transportation cost if he wants to.

as for Op..sometimes it is better to just buy these things in the city where u re building in a local shop where u can easily hold the seller responsible..Nigerians re not ready for e-commerce yet..there is no protection for the buyers/sellers of items online.

Hum2020:
Op i understand you why should@chizagi delivered a different doors which was not what they both agree the picture of 1st and 2nd doors is totally different from what the young man oder which very bad of him let say you dont have it in stock you should have informed him or give him a call to notified him that what he ordered is out of stock than sending him a different doors too bad .@ chizagi pls call him so that you both can settle the difference ok

adanny01:


Yes its better to buy things you can see. I have bought things i have not seen severally especially on Jumia, Konga, Ali Express etc.

One time i bought a shirt from Jumia, the description didn't say it was a slim fit and i wasnt particularly a slim fit. Everything was fine but wont button up. I returned the item telling them their mistake. Did i pay for delivery or return, no.

I am only left to imagine why didnt the op simply reject the items, instead calling fraud. Is this fraud? Does the quality match, i think yes. The issues i see here is orientation, physical imperfections and colour. Which of these amount to fraud? That of colour is can be overlooked, the op overlooked the orientation. What is left is the 2 doors with imperfections.

At this point, op should have explored means to resolve the situation by rejecting the goods that didn't meet the specs and if the seller refused every resolution then he comes here.

Now, 17 doors were ordered, 2 are physically damaged. I say reject. 1 or 2 of the turkey doors have wrong orientation, i say reject. That is 4 of 17. What is wrong with the 13? Do we know? Are they in perfect shape and orientation, then accept them.

If 85k is tp for 17 doors and i rejected 4 which will be taken to Lag and back. Lets assume this cost 80k, it will not be wrong in the interest of peace to say, he will offset the supplier 20k to encourage him to take responsibility of his mistakes. Thats negotiation, i simply asked the op to negotiate a resolution. If the supplier owns up to his responsibility, he should pay in full for tp back and forth. Has the supplier refused to do that?

adanny01:


Yes its better to buy things you can see. I have bought things i have not seen severally especially on Jumia, Konga, Ali Express etc.

One time i bought a shirt from Jumia, the description didn't say it was a slim fit and i wasnt particularly a slim fit. Everything was fine but wont button up. I returned the item telling them their mistake. Did i pay for delivery or return, no.

I am only left to imagine why didnt the op simply reject the items, instead calling fraud. Is this fraud? Does the quality match, i think yes. The issues i see here is orientation, physical imperfections and colour. Which of these amount to fraud? That of colour is can be overlooked, the op overlooked the orientation. What is left is the 2 doors with imperfections.

At this point, op should have explored means to resolve the situation by rejecting the goods that didn't meet the specs and if the seller refused every resolution then he comes here.

Now, 17 doors were ordered, 2 are physically damaged. I say reject. 1 or 2 of the turkey doors have wrong orientation, i say reject. That is 4 of 17. What is wrong with the 13? Do we know? Are they in perfect shape and orientation, then accept them.

If 85k is tp for 17 doors and i rejected 4 which will be taken to Lag and back. Lets assume this cost 80k, it will not be wrong in the interest of peace to say, he will offset the supplier 20k to encourage him to take responsibility of his mistakes. Thats negotiation, i simply asked the op to negotiate a resolution. If the supplier owns up to his responsibility, he should pay in full for tp back and forth. Has the supplier refused to do that?

3him3n:

Your last statement clearly reveals your bias.
Wanted to get your angle, your position is unconfusing.
Like i said you dont have the whole facts of the case.
We have documented conversations for the order.
Thanks for your contribution, anyway.

adanny01:


I am no seller, i am not selling either services or goods. I have no link whatsoever to the seller. I have no motive to be biased.

Criminal breach of trust or fraud is no small allegation.

Being active in the Autos section of Nairaland, i have seen a lot of fraud cases and your case is not even close to anyone of them. At some point you said you accepted the [b]mistake made by the supplier. [/b]Its not like he collected the money and refused to pick your calls or supply the items. Its not that he collected money for original and supplied fake.

I have agreed with you that, your issues with orientation, colour, physical imperfections and to add now, the design pattern, are valid issues the seller should settle with you. These issues should not be regarded as criminal breach of trust or fraud especially if the quality of products is that which you ordered (except for the physically imperfect doors).

I am not against you, but please, dont say he defrauded you or any of the sort and then talk him into returning the ones that are unacceptable (especially the ones with dents and the wrong orientation).

adanny01:


I am no seller, i am not selling either services or goods. I have no link whatsoever to the seller. I have no motive to be biased.

Criminal breach of trust or fraud is no small allegation.

Being active in the Autos section of Nairaland, i have seen a lot of fraud cases and your case is not even close to anyone of them. At some point you said you accepted the mistake made by the supplier. Its not like he collected the money and refused to pick your calls or supply the items. Its not that he collected money for original and supplied fake.

I have agreed with you that, your issues with orientation, colour, physical imperfections and to add now, the design pattern, are valid issues the seller should settle with you. These issues should not be regarded as criminal breach of trust or fraud especially if the quality of products is that which you ordered (except for the physically imperfect doors).

I am not against you, but please, dont say he defrauded you or any of the sort and then talk him into returning the ones that are unacceptable (especially the ones with dents and the wrong orientation).

Cindino20:


Find below the dictinary definition of fraud

fraud
/frɔːd/
Learn to pronounce
noun
wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

I will leave the interpretation for you to do.


Well..lets hope the issue is resolved. The seller can easily replace the items that did not meet specification.

Peace!

adanny01:


I am no seller, i am not selling either services or goods. I have no link whatsoever to the seller. I have no motive to be biased.

Criminal breach of trust or fraud is no small allegation.

Being active in the Autos section of Nairaland, i have seen a lot of fraud cases and your case is not even close to anyone of them. At some point you said you accepted the mistake made by the supplier. Its not like he collected the money and refused to pick your calls or supply the items. Its not that he collected money for original and supplied fake.

I have agreed with you that, your issues with orientation, colour, physical imperfections and to add now, the design pattern, are valid issues the seller should settle with you. These issues should not be regarded as criminal breach of trust or fraud especially if the quality of products is that which you ordered (except for the physically imperfect doors).

I am not against you, but please, dont say he defrauded you or any of the sort and then talk him into returning the ones that are unacceptable (especially the ones with dents and the wrong orientation).

jceesquare:

I beg to differ.
If buyer reached an agreement with supplier to deliver those doors based on colour, orientation, design pattern among other details and the supplier breached that agreement by supplying something totally different, then supplier can be accused of criminal breach of trust or fraud irrespective of the quality of product delivered.
Let's call a spade a spade.
Also we need to hear suppliers side of the story.

adanny01:


How is it criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain when you pay for a glass stainless steel door with left swing and was supplied with a glass stainless steel door with right swing?

What is the financial gain when both doors cost the same thing? How criminal is it to supply left instead of right, blue instead of green if both are the same price?

To be fraud, their must be intent to defraud and their must be action to defraud.

If we negotiate for a phone that is not present at the negotiation, when i finally deliver the phone to you as agreed but with a broke screen. It is not fraud if the screen was broken on transit to you. It is fraud if i negotiated with you knowing fully well the screen is broken. I had the intention of selling a defective phone.

The 2 doors the op received with dents might have happened between Lagos and Edo. Its not like the 17 doors are all dented.

adanny01:


Where in the invoice shared by op stated the orientation, colour or design pattern? Fraud is when the financial cost of what was supplied is less than what was agreed.

Does the orientation, colour and design pattern change the cost of the doors? If no, the its not fraud.

The only part that could be fraud is for the doors with dents and if it is proven that the seller sold the doors knowing they were defective right from his warehouse.

3him3n:

Dont quote me wrongly to misrepresent fact.
I appreciate if you trying to broker peace here, but your position is unassuming.
Have asked you to enlighten/educate us what qualifies as fraud in online ecommerce transaction. I'm awaiting your post on that.

3him3n:


The pixs below are what was delivered which are totally at variant with the order.

Glassdoor with left opening instead of right opening was delivered,however i excused the mistake for the that one.

chizagi:
You paid me for 17 units of doors and i supplied 17 units of doors, but one door out of the 17 units was not the exact design you chose, that does not make me a scammer. I have never scammed anyone in my life or in this forum, so many people have patronised me on this forum and are always satisfied. This is totally unfair sir, let God be the judge.

adanny01:




Fraud is only when their is a financial difference in value.