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The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. - Religion - Nairaland

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The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by Nobody: 8:38pm On Oct 12, 2017
We've all heard of them. Some of us have encountered them a couple of times online trying to proselytize us away from our beliefs, using their so called tools of reason and empirical evidence. They call themselves atheists - a lucky set of rational humans that have been able to unshackle themselves from the chains of religion and from the irrational belief in the existence of a God.

Although the arguments of atheists for the most part are compelling, they don't seem to provide a tenable or compelling argument in their favor on the subject of morality. They are of the opinion that humans don't require religion to answer our moral questions.
This to me doesn't seem like a wise opinion to have, let alone one to organize your life around and expect others to, because if we take the belief in God away from our lives, then upon what foundation do we erect our moral values? If we obliterate all forms of religion, where then do we derive our morals from? The common answer atheists provide to such a question is an answer that I consider to be potentially dangerous. Atheists are of the opinion that humans can use the tools of rationality and even science to answer questions that apply to morality.

Irrespective of how varied all religions are, there is a unifing thread that runs through all of them, and this is the explicit acknowledgment that humans were created by a divine being, possess a soul, and have a moral responsibility to uphold the value system endorsed by this divine being or beings, because it affects not just the conscious experience of the individual, but the development or journey of the soul. This is essentially what's at the core of most religions. And although religions differ slightly in their doctrinal prescriptions, they say the same thing on the question of how humans should treat others - a question by which morality is essentially defined by. There is no religion that doesn't have it's core moral values organized around love, selfless service and doing good towards others. And as a result of the fact that adherents of a religion understand that they are morally accountable to their maker, and the decisions that they make affect the development and destination of their souls, they are strongly incentivised to uphold these moral values that in turn positively influence the moral progress of their environment.

Atheists however are faced with a series of moral problems. Since they aren't accountable to any set of divine moral principles, on what basis are they to define an action as right or wrong? I regard the atheist's position as inherently dangerous because questions of morality become questions of subjective judgements, and subjective judgements tend to be selfish in nature.
If a person doesn't believe in the existence of a divine being that created him, then he isn't morally accountable to such being or any transcendental force whatsoever and hence he is at will to do anything and his actions can be justified on the basis of his own judgements and needs.

7 Likes

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by menxer: 9:08pm On Oct 12, 2017
Good.

Then endeavour to explain:
1) the morality of women subjugation and inequality.
2) the absence of female gender In the Trinity.


Morality of good/evil as opined is still an extension of the concept of duality that pervades all creation but is missing in the all male Trinity and in heaven.

4 Likes 1 Share

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by felixomor: 9:32pm On Oct 12, 2017
Op,
You have spoken well.
Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by Nobody: 9:51am On Oct 13, 2017
menxer:
Good.

Then endeavour to explain:
1) the morality of women subjugation and inequality.
2) the absence of female gender In the Trinity.


Morality of good/evil as opined is still an extension of the concept of duality that pervades all creation but is missing in the all male Trinity and in heaven.

The question of female inequality isn't really a question of how to treat others or how to make decisions and live our lives in a way that it doesn't harm others. Unlike religion, atheism doesn't have any value system that answers these kind of questions. Questions like: Is it right to kill? Isn't it rational to put my interests ahead of that of others, whether or not it can potentially cause then harm? What's the basis upon which I make moral decisions? The answers to this kind of questions are uniform within religious circles, but are entirely subjective and dependant on the individual answering them as far as atheism is concerned.

Mind you, issues surrounding gender aren't just religious issues, but also cultural issues, and our ideas about gender tend to evolve with time and interact with our political environments.
Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by hopefulLandlord: 9:54am On Oct 13, 2017
OP is very confused

says atheists use subjective judgements, then proves religious belief is subjective

ergo, he proves religious morals are subjective

12 Likes 1 Share

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by Nobody: 10:01am On Oct 13, 2017
hopefulLandlord:
OP is very confused

says atheists use subjective judgements, then proves religious belief is subjective

ergo, he proves religious morals are subjective

"Irrespective of how varied all religions are, there is a unifing thread that runs through all of them, and this is the explicit acknowledgment that humans were created by a divine being, possess a soul, and have a moral responsibility to uphold the value system endorsed by this divine being or beings, because it affects not just the conscious experience of the individual, but the development or journey of the soul. This is essentially what's at the core of most religions. And although religions differ slightly in their doctrinal prescriptions, they say the same thing on the question of how humans should treat others - a question by which morality is essentially defined by. There is no religion that doesn't have it's core moral values organized around love, selfless service and doing good towards others. And as a result of the fact that adherents of a religion understand that they are morally accountable to their maker, and the decisions that they make affect the development and destination of their souls, they are strongly incentivised to uphold these moral values that in turn positively influence the moral progress of their environment"

The above paragrah, which I am guessing you didn't read, contradicts the statement you just made. Please read it.

3 Likes

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by JackBizzle: 10:04am On Oct 13, 2017
grin


Yet atheist tend to be better behaved than most christians.

On nairaland alone, can we even name one agheist that is a scammer? But we have caught so many christian frauds

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Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by hopefulLandlord: 10:08am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:

The above paragrah, which I am guessing you didn't read, contradicts the statement you just made. Please read it.

its you that need to understand my own post

You're proving Morality is subjective then criticising atheism for having subjective morals, that sounds like hypocrisy

you can't possibly talk about what is common amongst all of you and use that as a point cuz there are atheists in Jainism and Jainism is the most peaceful religion in the whole world, no religion comes close to it in terms of the things you listed up there "Love, selfless service and doing good to others"

so OGA, you no get point abeg, all you've done is argue that atheists should join Jainism at best

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Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by Nobody: 10:22am On Oct 13, 2017
JackBizzle:
grin


Yet atheist tend to be better behaved than most christians.

On nairaland alone, can we even name one agheist that is a scammer? But we have caught so many christian frauds



Is this really all you can muster as a response to my argument? Really?

First, it's really silly of you to authoritatively assert that atheists are better behaved than Christians because you don't have any analytical or statistical evidence whatsoever. You don't even have the data on the number of atheists and theists in the world or in whatever geographical context you are couching your assertive statement in.

Again you are displaying a staggering degree of naivety and an extremely disappointing inability to argue sensibly and coherently. How is a statement like
"On nairaland alone, can we even name one atheist that is a scammer? But we have caught so many christian frauds" a tenable response to my argument? And how am I supposed to answer this question? How is anyone supposed to answer this question? Do we all walk around with the names and religious or nonreligious identity of every user on this forum? And even if there are more theists than atheists that have been caught engaging in unlawful practices, isn't this merely a consequence of population distribution? If the ratio of theists to atheists on this forum is 98:2, wouldn't it be more likely that anyone caught engaging in an unlawful practice would be a theist?

6 Likes

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by Nobody: 10:32am On Oct 13, 2017
hopefulLandlord:


its you that need to understand my own post

You're proving Morality is subjective then criticising atheism for having subjective morals, that sounds like hypocrisy

you can't possibly talk about what is common amongst all of you and use that as a point cuz there are atheists in Jainism and Jainism is the most peaceful religion in the whole world, no religion comes close to it in terms of the things you listed up there "Love, selfless service and doing good to others"

so OGA, you no get point abeg, all you've done is argue that atheists should join Jainism at best

You seem to have a problem with verbal comprehension. Did you skip your comprehension classes in high school?

Tell me a religion that doesn't have it's core moral values predicated on avoiding sin, bearing in mind that the concept of sin is tailored around the question of how to treat others and how to live righteously?

What answer does atheism provide on the question of how to treat others? On what foundation does atheism base it's moral values on?

3 Likes

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by hopefulLandlord: 10:43am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:


You seem to have a problem with verbal comprehension. Did you skip your comprehension classes in high school?

make your replies to me civil or I'll leave you hanging


Tell me a religion that doesn't have it's core moral values predicated on avoiding sin, bearing in mind that the concept of sin is tailored around the question of how to treat others and how to live righteously?

and I already showed you a religion called Jainism that doesn't worship any god, its the most peaceful religion in the whole world and atheists can join them

Jainism emphasises those things you regard as good morals more than any other religion you can think of, so yes you're just sitting there arguing that we should join Jainism at best

What answer does atheism provide on the question of how to treat others? On what foundation does atheism base it's moral values on?

Atheism has NOTHING to do with morals

like I said previously, you have no point

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Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by Nobody: 10:45am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:
[/b] If we obliterate all forms of religion, where then do we derive our morals from? The common answer atheists provide to such a question is an answer that I consider to be potentially dangerous. Atheists are of the opinion that humans can use the tools of rationality and even science to answer questions that apply to morality.
Atheists however are faced with a series of moral problems. Since they aren't accountable to any set of divine moral principles, on what basis are they to define an action as right or wrong?

an atheist is a person who does not believe in a god. every human being is born atheist till they're initiated into a religion. human beings are born with a conscience and empathy. how an individual regulates themselves varies. like i know for a fact the bible says no sex before marriage but more than 90% of bible-readers have sex before marriage. this is proof of the fact that the human body has wired certain emotion and no book/religion can alter nature's design of humans. the same bible also says dont murder but ppl dont murder as much as they have sex, NOT because the bible said so but because the human brain can grasp magnitude of offence & consequence. take a child for example, even dogs, when they do the wrong thing, they immediately know that they fu<ked up.

whether u believe it or not, the average atheist is usually more conscious than those who feel forced to be good cos they fear god. because atheism is our original state, most atheists go on a journey of self-discovery, u will not find any atheist that walked out of religion that has not come to higher consciousness and a certain self-awareness. meanwhile, if u were not raised by christians, u wouldn't be christian, if u weren't raised by muslims, u wouldnt be muslim. so, religion is irrelevant. human beings know what is wrong or right. any human who cannot process emotion or feel empathy is a PSYCHOPATH, it's a state of not being able to access conscience and grasp consequence.

humans lie everyday even though the bible is against it, humans have sex, drink, enjoy "worldly" pleasures. if the bible says thou shall not eat sh!t, that would not be the reason ppl are not eating sh!t, it's an internal clock, that regulates what we feel is ok and what isnt. for fairness, humans created a legal system to help create law & order. that is why even though religion and constitution dont mix, u will find that the law follows common sense NOT the bible. a terrible person will do terrible things, there are millions of religious murderers, terrorists, child predators, etc. religion did not stop them. all the "self-control" or "morals" u think come with religion actually come with the self-will of those in question. there are parts of the bible that support slavery and inhumane treatment and once you bring it up, most christians dismiss it cos it's the old testament. if religion was what gave us morals, no part of a holy book would be dismissed. but this serves as proof that everyone without being told, knows what feels wrong and ppl cherry-pick the bible because they know what their conscience will allow.

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Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by menxer: 10:50am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:


The question of female inequality isn't really a question of how to treat others or how to make decisions and live our lives in a way that it doesn't harm others. Unlike religion, atheism doesn't have any value system that answers these kind of questions. Questions like: Is it right to kill? Isn't it rational to put my interests ahead of that of others, whether or not it can potentially cause then harm? What's the basis upon which I make moral decisions? The answers to this kind of questions are uniform within religious circles, but are entirely subjective and dependant on the individual answering them as far as atheism is concerned.

Mind you, issues surrounding gender aren't just religious issues, but also cultural issues, and our ideas about gender tend to evolve with time and interact with our political environments.
You are right, our ideas about gender evolves but not up to the Trinity.

It is morally right to see and treat the female as inferior and less than the male even within religious circles, right?

People are so obsessed about atheists that we fail to see how absurd some of our fundamental tenets and beliefs are.
I have asked the same question several times yet no cogent answer is given: why do we speak of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit but nothing about God the Mother?

You are talking about the basis of making right moral decisions, when the very foundations of your morality is not clear. The morality and authority of the Christian is derived from the Trinity that has no place for female gender, how morally right is that?

You say gender issues are not just religious, I am very much interested in how religion answers the gender question, because the society draws its conventional norms from there.

4 Likes

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by dalaman: 10:52am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:
We've all heard of them. Some of us have encountered them a couple of times online trying to proselytize us away from our beliefs, using their so called tools of reason and empirical evidence. They call themselves atheists - a lucky set of rational humans that have been able to unshackle themselves from the chains of religion and from the irrational belief in the existence of a God.

Although the arguments of atheists for the most part are compelling, they don't seem to provide a tenable or compelling argument in their favor on the subject of morality. They are of the opinion that humans don't require religion to answer our moral questions.
This to me doesn't seem like a wise opinion to have, let alone one to organize your life around and expect others to, because if we take the belief in God away from our lives, then upon what foundation do we erect our moral values? If we obliterate all forms of religion, where then do we derive our morals from? The common answer atheists provide to such a question is an answer that I consider to be potentially dangerous. Atheists are of the opinion that humans can use the tools of rationality and even science to answer questions that apply to morality.

Irrespective of how varied all religions are, there is a unifing thread that runs through all of them, and this is the explicit acknowledgment that humans were created by a divine being, possess a soul, and have a moral responsibility to uphold the value system endorsed by this divine being or beings, because it affects not just the conscious experience of the individual, but the development or journey of the soul. This is essentially what's at the core of most religions. And although religions differ slightly in their doctrinal prescriptions, they say the same thing on the question of how humans should treat others - a question by which morality is essentially defined by. There is no religion that doesn't have it's core moral values organized around love, selfless service and doing good towards others. And as a result of the fact that adherents of a religion understand that they are morally accountable to their maker, and the decisions that they make affect the development and destination of their souls, they are strongly incentivised to uphold these moral values that in turn positively influence the moral progress of their environment.

Atheists however are faced with a series of moral problems. Since they aren't accountable to any set of divine moral principles, on what basis are they to define an action as right or wrong? I regard the atheist's position as inherently dangerous because questions of morality become questions of subjective judgements, and subjective judgements tend to be selfish in nature.
If a person doesn't believe in the existence of a divine being that created him, then he isn't morally accountable to such being or any transcendental force whatsoever and hence he is at will to do anything and his actions can be justified on the basis of his own judgements and needs.

Which God made the moral laws marry 4 wives as a muslim man? Which God also made the moral law not to eat pork as a muslim?

Homosexual relationship is no longer immoral in the west, which God made such laws?

2 Likes

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by JackBizzle: 10:55am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:


Is this really all you can muster as a response to my argument? Really?

First, it's really silly of you to authoritatively assert that atheists are better behaved than Christians because you don't have any analytical or statistical evidence whatsoever. You don't even have the data on the number of atheists and theists in the world or in whatever geographical context you are couching your assertive statement in.

Again you are displaying a staggering degree of naivety and an extremely disappointing inability to argue sensibly and coherently. How is a statement like
"On nairaland alone, can we even name one atheist that is a scammer? But we have caught so many christian frauds" a tenable response to my argument? And how am I supposed to answer this question? How is anyone supposed to answer this question? Do we all walk around with the names and religious or nonreligious identity of every user on this forum? And even if there are more theists than atheists that have been caught engaging in unlawful practices, isn't this merely a consequence of population distribution? If the ratio of theist to atheists on this forum is 98:2, wouldn't it be more likely that anyone caught engaging in an unlawful practice would be a theist?


Oh. I see. You are serious. Sorry, i didnt put forward a serious argument.

First, morality exists indepedent of religion. People did not need christianity or the 10 commandments to know that murder is wrong.


Secondly, the major religions of the world all have illogical and sometimes evil morality embedded in them. For instance, the abrahamic religions of christianity, islam and judaism are all inherently racist, sexist and intolerant of unbelievers. How many female prophets do you see in Abrahamic religions? There are serious punishments for just disbelieving in both the bible and quran.



Thirdly, there is a positive correlation between religion and poverty. There is als a negative cotrelation between religion and intelligence. The two correlatons have been proven by numerous studies.


Just looking at the most developed countries on the HDI index will tell you all you need to know about religion and human development. Religion in itself is mostly immoral considering how it retards human development.

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Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by hopefulLandlord: 10:55am On Oct 13, 2017
dalaman:


Which God made the moral laws marry 4 wives as a muslim man? Which God also made the moral law not to eat pork as a muslim?

Homosexual relationship is no longer immoral in the west, which God made such laws?

OP says atheism is dangerous because atheists use subjective judgements, meanwhile NOBODY has been able to prove Morality is not subjective; every theist just screams "morality is objective!!!" but tell them to prove it and they would start stammering

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Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by dalaman: 11:01am On Oct 13, 2017
hopefulLandlord:


OP says atheism is dangerous because atheists use subjective judgements, meanwhile NOBODY has been able to prove Morality is not subjective; every theist just screams "morality is objective!!!" but tell them to prove it and they would start stammering

Stammering and crying.

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Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by Nobody: 11:11am On Oct 13, 2017
hopefulLandlord:


make your replies to me civil or I'll leave you hanging


and I already showed you a religion called Jainism that doesn't worship any god, its the most peaceful religion in the whole world and atheists can join them

Jainism emphasises those things you regard as good morals more than any other religion you can think of, so yes you're just sitting there arguing that we should join Jainism at best


Atheism has NOTHING to do with morals

like I said previously, you have no point

Please don't draw a correlation between Jainism and atheism and don't present Jainism as a position atheists can easily switch to while still holding their views on the nonexistence of God. Jainism is a byproduct of Hinduism and lots of it's doctrines draw inspiration from the Indian vedic texts. Also, although Jains don't proclaim a belief in a God, they aren't devoid of a concept of God; which is that God is a perfect being that exists within themselves, who anyone can strive to achieve or become. This ideology bears lots of similarity with a lot of eastern religions as well.

Unlike Jainism or any other religion, atheism doesn't present an incentive towards upholding moral values. Atheists don't have any conception of a perfect being or God which they aim to attain. Their moral values aren't even defined and are completely subjective and relative to individual judgements.

How can you say atheism has nothing to do with morals? What a disappointing statement to make. Morality is essentially a question of how we treat others and the decisions we make in relation to our interaction with other humans. If our ideas and beliefs affect our answers to these questions, and the judgements we make in our day to day interaction with other humans, how then can you confidently assert that atheism, which is an ideology and belief that informs our actions and decisions, has completely nothing to do with morality?

Let me bring the question home because it seems you have a penchant for conveniently ignoring questions you have no compelling response to. On what foundation do you as an atheist base your moral values on, and how exactly do you define morality?

2 Likes

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by hopefulLandlord: 11:13am On Oct 13, 2017
dalaman:


Stammering and crying.

Maybe this discussion can be directed to this question: How do we OBJECTIVELY resolve moral dilemmas? I define a moral dilemma as a set of facts that present a situation in which, regardless of which choice we make, we violate some recognized moral principle.

You know the common example:
>Do I lie to the Nazis to save the Jews I have hidden in my basement from capture (and likely death)? (Dilemma: Do I tell the Truth, or save a Life?)

But also consider this:
>Do I keep quiet (or lie) about the government's illegal domestic spying so to protect national security? (Truth, or the "Greater Good"?)

Another one:
>Do I perform an abortion to save the mother's life? (Save a life, or save a life?)

Or this:
>The practice of medical triage?

One would likely say the Nazi dilemma is easy to resolve--life trumps truth; but is life over truth an objective standard? In the domestic spying scenario, is it an objective truth that the greater good takes precedence over truth, or vice-versa? What about killing one innocent life to save another? (What is the objective standard?)

I submit that these dilemmas are resolved, not by objective truths, but by the facts of the situation (Situational Ethics!!); and the facts we find to be salient are those we are culturally conditioned to deem as such according to our shared values (Cultural Relativism!).

Thoughts?

7 Likes

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by Nobody: 11:18am On Oct 13, 2017
hopefulLandlord:


Maybe this discussion can be directed to this question: How do we OBJECTIVELY resolve moral dilemmas? I define a moral dilemma as a set of facts that present a situation in which, regardless of which choice we make, we violate some recognized moral principle.

You know the common example:
>Do I lie to the Nazis to save the Jews I have hidden in my basement from capture (and likely death)? (Dilemma: Do I tell the Truth, or save a Life?)

But also consider this:
>Do I keep quiet (or lie) about the government's illegal domestic spying so to protect national security? (Truth, or the "Greater Good"?)

Another one:
>Do I perform an abortion to save the mother's life? (Save a life, or save a life?)

Or this:
>The practice of medical triage?

One would likely say the Nazi dilemma is easy to resolve--life trumps truth; but is life over truth an objective standard? In the domestic spying scenario, is it an objective truth that the greater good takes precedence over truth, or vice-versa? What about killing one innocent life to save another? (What is the objective standard?)

I submit that these dilemmas are resolved, not by objective truths, but by the facts of the situation (Situational Ethics!!); and the facts we find to be salient are those we are culturally conditioned to deem as such according to our shared values (Cultural Relativism!).

Thoughts?

Copying and pasting responses from atheists online is really appalling.

2 Likes

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by hopefulLandlord: 11:19am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:


Please don't draw a correlation between Jainism and atheism and don't present Jainism as a position atheists can easily switch to while still holding their views on the nonexistence of God. Jainism is a byproduct of Hinduism and lots of it's doctrines draw inspiration from the Indian vedic texts. Also, although Jains don't proclaim a belief in a God, they aren't devoid of a concept of God; which is that God is a perfect being that exists within themselves, who anyone can strive to achieve or become. This ideology bears lots of similarity with a lot of eastern religions as well.

Unlike Jainism or any other religion, atheism doesn't present an incentive towards upholding moral values. Atheists don't have any conception of a perfect being or God which they aim to attain. Their moral values aren't even defined and are completely subjective and relative to individual judgements.

How can you say atheism has nothing to do with morals? What a disappointing statement to make. Morality is essentially a question of how we treat others and the decisions we make in relation to our interaction with other humans. If our ideas and beliefs affect our answers to these questions, and the judgements we make in our day to day interaction with other humans, how then can you confidently assert that atheism, which is an ideology and belief that informs our actions and decisions, has completely nothing to do with morality?

Let me bring the question home because it seems you have a penchant for conveniently ignoring questions you have no compelling response to. On what foundation do you as an atheist base your moral values on, and how exactly do you define morality?

let me repeat again, Atheism has NOTHING to do with morals; I did not say atheists have nothing to do with morals, the keyword you missed there is called "atheism"
atheism is simply an answer to a single question, do you believe in any god? No? you're an atheist, full stop!!!

I KNOW morality is subjective
Everyone already decides for themselves what is right and wrong, based on a combination of principle, compassion, and social influences. Some of us aren't delusional enough to think our morals have been handed down by some omniscient figure.

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Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by hopefulLandlord: 11:20am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:

Copying and pasting responses from atheists online is really appalling.
which atheists online?
Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by butterflyl1on: 11:26am On Oct 13, 2017
Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by hopefulLandlord: 11:38am On Oct 13, 2017
Nice one! smiley, I wanted to see if the accuser would find it though
Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by butterflyl1on: 11:40am On Oct 13, 2017
Of course you did wink grin

There is always an explanation right? cheesy
Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by dalaman: 11:43am On Oct 13, 2017
hopefulLandlord:


Maybe this discussion can be directed to this question: How do we OBJECTIVELY resolve moral dilemmas? I define a moral dilemma as a set of facts that present a situation in which, regardless of which choice we make, we violate some recognized moral principle.

You know the common example:
>Do I lie to the Nazis to save the Jews I have hidden in my basement from capture (and likely death)? (Dilemma: Do I tell the Truth, or save a Life?)

But also consider this:
>Do I keep quiet (or lie) about the government's illegal domestic spying so to protect national security? (Truth, or the "Greater Good"?)

Another one:
>Do I perform an abortion to save the mother's life? (Save a life, or save a life?)

Or this:
>The practice of medical triage?

One would likely say the Nazi dilemma is easy to resolve--life trumps truth; but is life over truth an objective standard? In the domestic spying scenario, is it an objective truth that the greater good takes precedence over truth, or vice-versa? What about killing one innocent life to save another? (What is the objective standard?)

I submit that these dilemmas are resolved, not by objective truths, but by the facts of the situation (Situational Ethics!!); and the facts we find to be salient are those we are culturally conditioned to deem as such according to our shared values (Cultural Relativism!
).

Thoughts?

The part in bold sums it up and that has always been my position.

1 Like

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by Nobody: 11:43am On Oct 13, 2017
hopefulLandlord:


i have to break protocol here, Nice one!

Shame on you. I'm abandoning this argument since it's clear that atheists on Nairaland can't formulate their own opinions and have to resort to plagiarising the online posts of foreign atheists. How can I engage in a debate with people who borrow all their retorts from online forums?

You are pathetic!!

2 Likes

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by dalaman: 11:45am On Oct 13, 2017
butterflyl1on:


This online

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/crossexamined/not_even_hitler_can_help_this_christian_argument/

Copy and paste argumentator grin

Will you keep quiet. As if you've not been caught copying and pasting before. Yimu there.

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Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by hopefulLandlord: 11:45am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:


Shame on you. I'm abandoning this argument since it's clear that atheists on Nairaland can't formulate their own opinions and have to resort to plagiarising the online posts of foreign atheists. How can I engage in a debate with people who borrow all their retorts from online websites.

You are pathetic!!

Cc felixomor

interesting, I've shown you have NO point so far, don't use this as an excuse cuz my copied quote wasn't even directed at you

my points so far have been simple

in OP you proved morality is subjective

then criticized atheists for using subjective judgements, what makes the religious judgement "unsubjective"? that's been my challenge to you

and get this straight " ATHEISM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MORALS"



.

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Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by dalaman: 11:46am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:


Shame on you. I'm abandoning this argument since it's clear that atheists on Nairaland can't formulate their own opinions and have to resort to plagiarising the online posts of foreign atheists. How can I engage in a debate with people who borrow all their retorts from online websites?

You are pathetic!!

Cc felixomor

Butterflylion himself has been caught plagiarizing someone's work on another thread, if you have no arguments to make then you can quietly leave. It's not as if the christians here aren't excellent plagiarist.

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by butterflyl1on: 11:47am On Oct 13, 2017
THT80:


Shame on you. I'm abandoning this argument since it's clear that atheists on Nairaland can't formulate their own opinions and have to resort to plagiarising the online posts of foreign atheists. How can I engage in a debate with people who borrow all their retorts from online forums?

You are pathetic!!

Cc felixomor


You ain't seen nothing yet grin

They are being indoctrinated by the white man on white mans atheism. cheesy

1 Like 1 Share

Re: The Moral Dilemma That Makes Atheism Unwise And Potentially Dangerous. by Nobody: 11:48am On Oct 13, 2017
hopefulLandlord:


interesting, I've shown you have NO point so far, don't use this as an excuse cuz my copied quote wasn't even directed at you

my points so far have been simple

in OP you proved morality is subjective

then criticized atheists for using subjective judgements, what makes the religious judgement "unsubjective"? that's been my challenge to you

and get this straight " ATHEISM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MORALS"


.

Desist from quoting me henceforth. I am not going to waste my time replying the borrowed arguments of a man who can't think for himself.

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