Why so much hatred for a religion who's basis is stated below. Are Christians perfectly living out the core of their faith? Certainly not!
Are there people who exploit the message of Christianity for their own enrichment? Certainly Yes!
Are there Christians who are confused as to their duties as Christians? Yes!
Should we then throw away the baby with the bath water? Sanity requires our answer be No!


As Atheists, do we have an alternative doctrine to life? That, I leave to you to answer.

The basis of Christianity lies on the following
1. There is a God (Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient) who made man as the crown of His creation
2. Mans relationship was to exceed that of Creator-Creation relationship to Father-Son Relationship
3. Man by his freewill choose either to align himself with God eternally or not by his set of choices here on earth.
4. The earth was designed for man as an exam field where mans volition is tested.
5. Man by nature is prone to sin by his inherited nature hence cannot pass Gods exam
6. God made a way for man by a sacrifice of His Lamb through His blood. Man has a responsibility of recognizing his helplessness and receiving the GIFT of salvation
7. When a man receives the gift of Salvation through the sacrifice of Gods lamb, he becomes spiritually a new creature and REQUIRED to do these duties
a. Love his neighbor as himself
b. Invite others to receives for themselves the free gift of SALVATION from God
c. Build other believers to be able to LOVE others and PREACH so that the unsaved can be saved.
8. The duty is to be done according to the rules of Purity
9. At the end of a Christians exam here and earth, he is JUDGED according to how faithful he had being to his duties in 7.


LOVE for man is all about bringing smiles to the faces of others.

Matthew 25:34-40
[34]Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[35]for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
[36]I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
[37]“Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
[38]When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
[39]Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’
[40]And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

I don't think atheists hate Christians, rather, I think they are trying to free you people from mind slavery and I'll call that love. In contrast, Christians will even wish atheists death, bereavements, incurable sicknesses, diseases, financial problems, etc just to try and prove a point that Yahweh their god has power, but none of these things have ever worked and it's a more reason why the atheists don't return to Christianity.
IMO, Christians are those who hate people of other beliefs or the irreligious people and atheists. Check that out all over nairaland.

OtemSapien:
I don't think atheists hate Christians, rather, I think they are trying to free you people from mind slavery and I'll call that love. In contrast, Christians will even wish atheists death, bereavements, incurable sicknesses, diseases, financial problems, etc just to try and prove a point that Yahweh their god has power, but none of these things have ever worked and it's a more reason why the atheists don't return to Christianity.
IMO, Christians are those who hate people of other beliefs or the irreligious people and atheists. Check that out all over nairaland.

I think you are being overly biased against the flaws you have seen in some Christians. The bias is making you to despise Christians as if they are the cause of the worlds problem. I certainly do not wish harm to any atheist and so the same with many Christians I know.

Do you have any issues with the Christian doctrine as stated above? How does the doctrines as stated in my post constitute mind slavery?

shadeyinka:

I think you are being overly biased against the flaws you have seen in some Christians. The bias is making you to despise Christians as if they are the cause of the worlds problem. I certainly do not wish harm to any atheist and so the same with many Christians I know.

Do you have any issues with the Christian doctrine as stated above?

Actually I am not an atheist and I don't think atheists are overly biased against the christians, rather, I see them criticizing the christian beliefs very hard because it has too much of potholes in it to criticize.
Yes, I have issues with some of the doctrine you posted above.

OtemSapien:


Actually I am not an atheist and I don't think atheists are overly biased against the christians, rather, I see them criticizing the christian beliefs very hard because it has too much of potholes in it to criticize.
Yes, I have issues with some of the doctrine you posted above.

Item, the man who composes his own scriptures on the fly. I know you are ng an atheist. Potholes? Ayam not understanding!

Of cause, I don't expect you to believe the doctrines but the issue is do these doctrine constitute harm to the society?

shadeyinka:

Item, the man who composes his own scriptures on the fly. I know you are ng an atheist. Potholes? Ayam not understanding!

Of cause, I don't expect you to believe the doctrines but the issue is do these doctrine constitute harm to the society?

I did not compose any scripture. I compiled the histories of the universe together, that's all. The doctrines you gave up there is not the full Christian doctrine. Have you added the doctrine of hell fire to it? Have you added rapture to it, etc. Those are the ones constituting confusion and problems in the minds of our people.

OtemSapien:
I did not compose any scripture. I compiled the histories of the universe together, that's all. The doctrines you gave up there is not the full Christian doctrine. Have you added the doctrine of hell fire to it? Have you added rapture to it, etc. Those are the ones constituting confusion and problems in the minds of our people.

It would be impractical to put ALL there is here that's why I put the core doctrines as it applies to ALL Christians irrespective of their denomination.

Christians are expected to preach to people so that they would not go to hell. Hell is another way of describing Gods refuse dump. That is whoever lives a life of independence from God is thrown into the place. This should propel Christians to work harder in their duty of evangelism.

Rapture is part of the prophecies that should lead to the end of the world. Those who have the mark/seal of God are removed at an instant from the world.

One may have issues with specific Christians but it is unfortunate that an over generalization has taken place.

We don't stop spending money because we saw a few mutilated notes or condemn the work of the CBN because Evans was using money as ransom for peoples lives and freedom.

shadeyinka:

It would be impractical to put ALL there is here that's why I put the core doctrines as it applies to ALL Christians irrespective of their denomination.

Christians are expected to preach to people so that they would not go to hell. Hell is another way of describing Gods refuse dump. That is whoever lives a life of independence from God is thrown into the place. This should propel Christians to work harder in their duty of evangelism.

Rapture is part of the prophecies that should lead to the end of the world. Those who have the mark/seal of God are removed at an instant from the world.

One may have issues with specific Christians but it is unfortunate that an over generalization has taken place.

We don't stop spending money because we saw a few mutilated notes or condemn the work of the CBN because Evans was using money as ransom for peoples lives and freedom.

Honestly, why do you feel like we Nigerians NEED to believe in a Jewish Religion? or don't you think we as black people have evolved to the point where we can create and have OUR own Religion? Why stick to the tales of the white men? The same white men who Enslaved us and is still enslaving us, Why??

shadeyinka:

It would be impractical to put ALL there is here that's why I put the core doctrines as it applies to ALL Christians irrespective of their denomination.

Christians are expected to preach to people so that they would not go to hell. Hell is another way of describing Gods refuse dump. That is whoever lives a life of independence from God is thrown into the place. This should propel Christians to work harder in their duty of evangelism.

Rapture is part of the prophecies that should lead to the end of the world. Those who have the mark/seal of God are removed at an instant from the world.

One may have issues with specific Christians but it is unfortunate that an over generalization has taken place.

We don't stop spending money because we saw a few mutilated notes or condemn the work of the CBN because Evans was using money as ransom for peoples lives and freedom.

Okay

MrMystrO:


Honestly, why do you feel like we Nigerians NEED to believe in a Jewish Religion? or don't you think we as black people have evolved to the point where we can create and have OUR own Religion? Why stick to the tales of the white men? The same white men who Enslaved us and is still enslaving us, Why??

For the sake of this exercise, I guess the issue isn't about Religion but the Doctrines expressed on contained therein.

Does the religion preach as a doctrine LOVE for the fellow man? If yes, should it be crucified all because it has a Jewish source?

If a religion preaches war to infidels, you have a point. The Jews by the way are not whites: they are semitic just like Arabs.

Shadeyinka,I have been trying hard to contact you.When you are chanced,I would like us to have a discussion, Please.

AlfaAce:
Shadeyinka,I have been trying hard to contact you.When you are chanced,I would like us to have a discussion, Please.

Hello
I've been off NL for some time because of the unruly behaviours of some NL mmoderators

Why don't you mail me from my namespace?

shadeyinka:


Christians are expected to preach to people so that they would not go to hell. Hell is another way of describing Gods refuse dump. That is whoever lives a life of independence from God is thrown into the place. This should propel Christians to work harder in their duty of evangelism.

Take the above, for instance. The Christian preaches to the atheist to save them from going to hell. How arrogant of them to think they themselves are not going to hell, and that they qualify to lead others there!

And what is "independence from God"? Do Christians really believe that their god really chooses based on the criteria of belief? Did the priest not believe? The Samaritan sure didn't. But what did their messiah say about that again? Is it not also written that the devil believes too? So Satan is in heaven, right? What then is so fancy about going to heaven if the devil is there already? And apart from the entire thing being fiction?

Love your neighbour means a lot more than evangelising, and if Christians understood that, fiction or not, I will take my atheist ass to church to join in their loving and making the world a better place, even if it meant praising and worshipping a figment of my imagination.

budaatum:

Take the above, for instance. The Christian preaches to the atheist to save them from going to hell. How arrogant of them to think they themselves are not going to hell, and that they qualify to lead others there!

And what is "independence from God"? Do Christians really believe that their god really chooses based on the criteria of belief? Did the priest not believe? The Samaritan sure didn't. But what did their messiah say about that again? Is it not also written that the devil believes too? So Satan is in heaven, right? What then is so fancy about going to heaven if the devil is there already? And apart from the entire thing being fiction?

Love your neighbour means a lot more than evangelising, and if Christians understood that, fiction or not, I will take my atheist ass to church to join in their loving and making the world a better place, even if it meant praising and worshipping a figment of my imagination.

The aim of my post isn't to prove which is better between Atheism and Christianity. It isn't also to discuss how effectively and faithfully Christians have been performing their spiritual mandate as assigned by God.

The essence of my post is for you to examine the core Christians doctrine as I have written it and show how it makes the world either a better place or a terrible place if they are faithfully adhered to.

So, it isn't about being arrogant. Its about suppose Christians are correct: would it not be wrong of them not to preach to others?

The core "Believe" is not a word in isolation. It is about independence from God. How can a person believe in God yet be independent? It is impossible. I think you got it wrong there. Satan is independent from God because even though he knows that God exist, doesn't believe IN "whatever God has to say or do". This is an act of defiance.

Why do atheists rage about " Santa Claus " if Santa Claus has not been known to inspire bombing and maiming of people.

Evangelism is one duty
Loving God and Man is another duty

Both are duties of the Christian and any Christian who fail in either has a lot of repentance to do.

shadeyinka:

Hello
I've been off NL for some time because of the unruly behaviours of some NL mmoderators

Why don't you mail me from my namespace?

alright sir

So what exactly are you saying?
that none should criticise your religion although you can freely do the same to other religious beliefs

AlfaAce:

alright sir

You are welcome

‎
You asked a question. I've given a response. Now you're telling me my response is not what you wanted? And no, I am not suggesting being an atheist is better. Though, I would argue that being sceptical about some religious beliefs is a good thing‎. 

Otem already told you he has problems with your "core Christian doctrine". I agree with him. What you posted was at best your understanding of the core doctrine of Christianity. The most basic doctrine of Christianity however, would be "love your neighbour". And this is the one rule most people find the hardest to abide by.

Christians think it means, convert your neighbour to believe what they believe, which is what they evangelise. I prefer to be shown the evidence, myself. Then I would not have to believe because I would actually know. Religion tends to conflate belief with knowing. They however set themselves up for ridicule by claiming it is what they believe. I have treated this conflation in another thread and would look up a link to it if you care.‎ Basically, one does not just believe what one knows.
‎
Back to the topic at hand with reference to Matthew 25:34-40‎ which you've quoted. It basically says 'care for one another', which in no way means convert one another. One should perhaps read it in conjunction with the Parable of the good Samaritan. In Christ's day, the Samaritan would have been seen as worst than how some Christians see the Muslims. They in no way agreed with Judaism and were looked at disfavourably by the Judaists. It was generally accepted that God did not like them, yet Christ is implying that that unbeliever, as some deemed them, would find greater favour in God's eye than even a priest of Yahweh. So where does the idea that Christians adopt today, of loving only those of their neighbours who believe as they do, come from? I bet you many would throw up verses from the Bible to justify that hatred. And there is the pity. I assure you, if some of the practises Christians claim is from Christ were from Santa Claus, we would have killed Santa Claus off already!

Christ evangelised more by loving his fellow human beings. If anyone adopts that loving attitude, I personally don't care if they did it in the name of Satan. The world would be a better place. ‎But to claim any god can be behind the current Christian practice (of some), is at best a farce. The god such people worship should be killed off. And as an atheist, it is my duty to evangelise that fact, for the harm they do by their narrow mindedness is immense. They are no better that the Pharissees, whom Christ ranted against incessantly.

One's belief does not the person make. ‎Paul and James had opposing views on the topic. "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds", said the latter. Only those who have a desire for controlling others can claim that whosoever believeth a certain thing shall go to 'heaven'. We all sure know many so called 'believers' who we would not like to associate with. Just look on here and wonder how many of them you might not wish to associate with. Then wonder if there is not at least one atheist on here whom you can see yourself having due regard for. Then consider who would be gnashing their teeth on judgement day, if ever there is one.

Please note, this is me raging. I hate that people can justify the unjustifiable and hope they wouldn't be seen through. Such is tantamount‎ to screaming, "Crucify him! Crucify him!" and nothing can be more evil in my raging opinion.‎
‎

shadeyinka:

The aim of my post isn't to prove which is better between Atheism and Christianity. It isn't also to discuss how effectively and faithfully Christians have been performing their spiritual mandate as assigned by God.

The essence of my post is for you to examine the core Christians doctrine as I have written it and show how it makes the world either a better place or a terrible place if they are faithfully adhered to.

So, it isn't about being arrogant. Its about suppose Christians are correct: would it not be wrong of them not to preach to others?

The core "Believe" is not a word in isolation. It is about independence from God. How can a person believe in God yet be independent? It is impossible. I think you got it wrong there. Satan is independent from God because even though he knows that God exist, doesn't believe IN "whatever God has to say or do". This is an act of defiance.

Why do atheists rage about " Santa Claus " if Santa Claus has not been known to inspire bombing and maiming of people.

Evangelism is one duty
Loving God and Man is another duty

Both are duties of the Christian and any Christian who fail in either has a lot of repentance to do.

‎

I apologise for the length of my rage.

budaatum:
‎
You asked a question. I've given a response. Now you're telling me my response is not what you wanted? And no, I am not suggesting being an atheist is better. Though, I would argue that being sceptical about some religious beliefs is a good thing‎. 

Otem already told you he has problems with your "core Christian doctrine". I agree with him. What you posted was at best your understanding of the core doctrine of Christianity. The most basic doctrine of Christianity however, would be "love your neighbour". And this is the one rule most people find the hardest to abide by.

Christians think it means, convert your neighbour to believe what they believe, which is what they evangelise. I prefer to be shown the evidence, myself. Then I would not have to believe because I would actually know. Religion tends to conflate belief with knowing. They however set themselves up for ridicule by claiming it is what they believe. I have treated this conflation in another thread and would look up a link to it if you care.‎ Basically, one does not just believe what one knows.

If I understand you well, your problem isn't the christian doctrines but the way it is being practiced. If that's the case I agree with you as "Love your Neighbor as yourself" even though is one of the three basic core doctrine of the Christians is the most difficult to implement by Christians because as humans, we are basically selfish.

I guess that's why it was given as the greatest commandment because its the one we are least inclined to.

Converting others (Preaching/making disciples of all nations) is another but separate command which is required of Christians and easier to fulfill than the first (Love God and Man) but still difficult for the majority of christians to implement. If you ask me, Christians have performed well below the pass mark in their duty of winning souls. Forget about the TV gospels and church congregations built up by pastors and evangelists (that is not the work of evangelising.

The work of evangelising is a three pronged process of
1-Living by Examples
2-Solving human problems (healing and deliverance) and
3-Preaching and Teaching the doctrine of salvation
All at the individual unit level

As I said, its easier to replace this with the third duty which involves being around the church (and being churchy) for the purpose of teaching, indoctrination and the associated religious observations.

‎

budaatum:
‎
Back to the topic at hand with reference to Matthew 25:34-40‎ which you've quoted. It basically says 'care for one another', which in no way means convert one another. One should perhaps read it in conjunction with the Parable of the good Samaritan. In Christ's day, the Samaritan would have been seen as worst than how some Christians see the Muslims. They in no way agreed with Judaism and were looked at disfavourably by the Judaists. It was generally accepted that God did not like them, yet Christ is implying that that unbeliever, as some deemed them, would find greater favour in God's eye than even a priest of Yahweh. So where does the idea that Christians adopt today, of loving only those of their neighbours who believe as they do, come from? I bet you many would throw up verses from the Bible to justify that hatred. And there is the pity. I assure you, if some of the practises Christians claim is from Christ were from Santa Claus, we would have killed Santa Claus off already!

Christ evangelised more by loving his fellow human beings. If anyone adopts that loving attitude, I personally don't care if they did it in the name of Satan. The world would be a better place. ‎But to claim any god can be behind the current Christian practice (of some), is at best a farce. The god such people worship should be killed off. And as an atheist, it is my duty to evangelise that fact, for the harm they do by their narrow mindedness is immense. They are no better that the Pharissees, whom Christ ranted against incessantly.

One's belief does not the person make. ‎Paul and James had opposing views on the topic. "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds", said the latter. Only those who have a desire for controlling others can claim that whosoever believeth a certain thing shall go to 'heaven'. We all sure know many so called 'believers' who we would not like to associate with. Just look on here and wonder how many of them you might not wish to associate with. Then wonder if there is not at least one atheist on here whom you can see yourself having due regard for. Then consider who would be gnashing their teeth on judgement day, if ever there is one.

Please note, this is me raging. I hate that people can justify the unjustifiable and hope they wouldn't be seen through. Such is tantamount‎ to screaming, "Crucify him! Crucify him!" and nothing can be more evil in my raging opinion.‎

I think your anger should be directed to the hypocrisy of Christians rather than to the God of the Christian. Why?

Because, Christians seems to be doing other things other than that for which they were commanded by God.

Yes, many of our so-called pastors have failed even at this cross. The church is supposed to be like a hospital where all who are hurting can come and receive healings and solutions to their problems: however, they have come under opportunists who use it as a commercial venture. Jesus warned us of them..." Beware of Wolves in Sheep skin..! "

Haven said all this, "why do atheists rage against God" acknowledges the failure of Christians but wonder why the rage often is against God rather than the "Unfaithful Christians ".

For me as a Christian, I see all the evil done in the name of Christ all around but that propels me to do that which is right to the best of my ability. Am I perfect? Certainly not for I still sometimes fail my Saviour. I am still like a child prodding along, stumbling sometimes but growing steadily towards perfection.

This world would indeed be a beautiful place to be if only Christians live as they have been commanded.

budaatum:
I apologise for the length of my rage.

No need to Bro.
I am also in my rage mode against my fellow christians and the several wolves in sheep skin who have crept in.

But as Jesus said:
Let the Wheat and Tares grow up together

At the end, the Tares will be gathered up and incinerated cause they do not have any seed/fruit in them. For the Master need only the wheat even if they can manage to produce one grain of seed/fruit.

tartar9:
So what exactly are you saying?
that none should criticise your religion although you can freely do the same to other religious beliefs

Why would a person rage on both the Constitution and the Originator of the Document if the problem is about the Citizens who are supposed to live and be bound by the Constitution.

shadeyinka:

No need to Bro.
I am also in my rage mode against my fellow christians and the several wolves in sheep skin who have crept in.

But as Jesus said:
Let the Wheat and Tares grow up together

At the end, the Tares will be gathered up and incinerated cause they do not have any seed/fruit in them. For the Master need only the wheat even if they can manage to produce one grain of seed/fruit.

Salt, as in good. Jesus did not sit back and watch the tares choke the wheat. "Woe", he said to those who take away the key to knowledge. Now we have people who are convinced that the evidence they see before them is less credible than that which is recorded to have happened long before they were born. They refuse to use their heads, which is meant to be filled with the Holy Spirit and which they themselves claim is part of their godhead. They elevate a book above it, so far above it that they make it out to be god! Yet do they not breath life in to the words so they themselves become as gods and create.

Christ was a wonderful person indeed. So wonderful that they have made him into a god. Unfortunately, in that slight of hand in which they deified him, they ensured that all (some so called) Christians can do is worship him. I am sure he'd be well pissed off if he came and saw what they do in his name. He sure never asked that temples be built in his name.

Thanks for this thread. The peace of the Lord is indeed with you.

shadeyinka:


If I understand you well, your problem isn't the christian doctrines but the way it is being practiced.
.
.
.

I think your anger should be directed to the hypocrisy of Christians rather than to the God of the Christian. Why?

I do not rage against God. (I know you did not mean me personally). I am amused at Atheists who do, but I am aware most just appear to rage against god.

Atheists know there are no gods to rage against. Their rage is against those who insist they should just believe in their gods when they show no evidence in their own ways of dealing with people that there is a God. They treat god as a proxy for the person who says there is one.

budaatum:

I do not rage against God. (I know you did not mean me personally). I am amused at Atheists who do, but I am aware most just appear to rage against god.

Atheists know there are no gods to rage against. Their rage is against those who insist they should just believe in their gods when they show no evidence in their own ways of dealing with people that there is a God. They treat god as a proxy for the person who says there is one.

Its a pity that we who claim to be christians are actually a big clog in the wheel of progress for making disciples for Christ.

But then by Bro, you have to forgive us because after stripping everything down, we are just first human.

Christians are Imperfect people heading towards the perfection of the saints and of course there are tonnes of people who look like us, speak like us, do like us but are different from us in the fold. Judgment of course will start within the fold of Christ. The judgment is about test of FAITHFULNESS to the calling. Let those who name the name of Christ depart from iniquity (lawlessness).

Note that he Evidence you seek of the Divine may not be how you desire it to be.
I tell you the truth, it is extremely difficult to prove that a "Software Exists" in a machine. The evidence to the existence of softwares is not in the the machine but outside it.

We are all just humans. And going by the Christian thought, with life breathed inside us by God. How dare those who claim there is God stand in front of the temple of that God and condemn it? Do they not read in their own book that in as much as they have done unto the atheist, the Muslim, the pagan etc they have done unto their God in heaven? I guess that is not explicitly said in the book they read. If only they were not blinded by their faith.

"The evidence to the existence of softwares is [indeed] not in the the machine but outside it." it shows in its external manifestation and can indeed be proven to exist in a machine (if software does exist in the machine, that is). One can put its physical components together and show that it cannot function until the software is breathed into it. One can show you the software too, and explain how it makes the machine function. Software it is, but expand software to include electricity, or other forms of energy. Without it, the machine is mere mud with no ability to function or perform the purpose for which it was designed.

The evidence for the 'divine' (meaning unclear, note, so let me mean 'Godly', an equally non-meaning word mind), is simple too. All one has to do is exhibit that software functioning in the machine. After all, if the Software of God were within one, even if one tried to hide it it will glow forth in its own right, or wouldn't it? The question then might be "what is the function of the "machine" (mud, human)?" "Or what is the function of the Software?"

But as you said, it may not be how one desires it to be. Something may be glowing in the dark, but because it may not have some components which one thinks is the core doctrine of that thing, it may not be comprehended.

Imperfect we indeed are today, but we are evolving to perfection. My wish is that we could take some mud, spit on it and rub it in our eye so we can be cured of our blindness. It may not make us perfect, but we will certainly be much better than we are today.

(It seems appropriate so I add the following) In Christ name, amen. (Your evangelising compelled me).

shadeyinka:

Its a pity that we who claim to be christians are actually a big clog in the wheel of progress for making disciples for Christ.

But then by Bro, you have to forgive us because after stripping everything down, we are just first human.

Christians are Imperfect people heading towards the perfection of the saints and of course there are tonnes of people who look like us, speak like us, do like us but are different from us in the fold. Judgment of course will start within the fold of Christ. The judgment is about test of FAITHFULNESS to the calling. Let those who name the name of Christ depart from iniquity (lawlessness).

Note that he Evidence you seek of the Divine may not be how you desire it to be.
I tell you the truth, it is extremely difficult to prove that a "Software Exists" in a machine. The evidence to the existence of softwares is not in the the machine but outside it.

budaatum:
We are all just humans. And going by the Christian thought, with life breathed inside us by God. How dare those who claim there is God stand in front of the temple of that God and condemn it? Do they not read in their own book that in as much as they have done unto the atheist, the Muslim, the pagan etc they have done unto their God in heaven? I guess that is not explicitly said in the book they read. If only they were not blinded by their faith.

Deep you are my Friend: very deep and I like it.
However, I think you are being too hard on Christians as the vast majority are harmless and sometimes naive. I agree, we sometime feel too righteous to a point that we are ready to "stone the sinner" rather than "stoning the sin" and asking the sinner to go and sin no more as the Master taught us. The vast majority of Christians are not vocal and active but silent and passive (sometimes too passive for use by Christ Himself).

Unfortunately, doctrinaly we have two sets of people
1. Those who are saved by Grace and
2. Those who are lost
A Christian is compelled to WARN, PREACH and EXPLAIN the way of salvation to others by their words and deeds. This causes a dilemma!

How does a Christian do this without POINTING out the Fault and Failure of the other person? How do you preach to a homosexual without warning him of the final judgment and need for repentance?

Surely, the homosexual will feel condemned especially if the Christian did not preach by LOVE.

Most Christians don't even preach and many of those who do have not been disciples to do it properly (without causing more damage)

budaatum:

"The evidence to the existence of softwares is [indeed] not in the the machine but outside it." it shows in its external manifestation and can indeed be proven to exist in a machine (if software does exist in the machine, that is). One can put its physical components together and show that it cannot function until the software is breathed into it. One can show you the software too, and explain how it makes the machine function. Software it is, but expand software to include electricity, or other forms of energy. Without it, the machine is mere mud with no ability to function or perform the purpose for which it was designed.

The bottom line question is to a materialist,; what is software?
A software cannot be seen, nor measured, nor quantified in any way. It is completely nothing!

We understand what a software is only because humans write the software codes. We know that it is a string of logical commands and instructions that interact with the electronics of the machine.

If humans never wrote a software code, our arguments today would be
- show me how a code looks like
-we have dissected thousands of computers and machines and we have never seen any semblance of code
-machines like computers and washing machines have been found to be controlled by electrons by our scientists.

In other to prove that softwares exist, it is important not to rule it out based on physical mechanics.

My point is that the spirit realm can be compared to the software component of existence and order. We cannot therefore use the physical laws to proof or disproof the existence of codes UNLESS of course if we are also code makers.

I see the union of the Soul and Spirit of man like the Operating system and associated softwares that give the physical body (the hardware) life. How do we prove they don't exist?

budaatum:


The evidence for the 'divine' (meaning unclear, note, so let me mean 'Godly', an equally non-meaning word mind), is simple too. All one has to do is exhibit that software functioning in the machine. After all, if the Software of God were within one, even if one tried to hide it it will glow forth in its own right, or wouldn't it? The question then might be "what is the function of the "machine" (mud, human)?" "Or what is the function of the Software?"

But as you said, it may not be how one desires it to be. Something may be glowing in the dark, but because it may not have some components which one thinks is the core doctrine of that thing, it may not be comprehended.

Imperfect we indeed are today, but we are evolving to perfection. My wish is that we could take some mud, spit on it and rub it in our eye so we can be cured of our blindness. It may not make us perfect, but we will certainly be much better than we are today.

(It seems appropriate so I add the following) In Christ name, amen. (Your evangelising compelled me).

I actually meant the evidence for God (devine).
Interestingly, what the gospel taught is more like God made humans with a perfect Operating System and Associated softwares with a warning not to allow the Virus of Sin entrance. Man allowed the entrance of the Malware (a Trojan) and the virus is controlling man to this day. Any time reproduction takes place the virus transmits itself. Hence, man is by nature basically selfish.

Salvation is more or less receiving the antivirus (which take final effect on reboot [death and resurrection]). As long as we are alive, the virus runs but it has lost its full power over us.

Have I started preaching!? LOL
Pls don't mind me!

But should the original software maker be blamed for the havoc a virus from the enemy has caused? Yes, the computers are misbehaving including those who claim they have received the antivirus (Born Again Christans).

We may need to wait until the time of reboot before we see them working exactly as they were designed.