Why are Christians and Muslims so eager to play the persecution card when they persecute so many? They are so eager to preach against us (atheists), gays, any other religion outside of their own and anyone living a lifestyle they that is different from their or which they don't approve.

Often you hear the most hate filled ridiculous comments you can imagine coming out of the mouth of the servants of Allah and the Children of Jehovah. Yet the slightest comment against them raises they're fury beyond believe. You see them summarily condemning people most of the time, justifying hate, bigotry, genocide and death. Yet they are very quick to clutch the persecution card when their beliefs or actions are questioned? . The atheists or others from another religion makes fun of them and it's persecution for their beliefs. . It seems to me that, anyone daring to tell a Christian or a Muslim to follow the laws, and not force their religion on others is "persecution" these days. My own theory is that they are fed misconceptions of none believers for as long as they are indoctrinated in the infallibility theories of their god and its important to dispel these opinions too. I will like to hear the opinion of other atheist in the house.

@toneyb,

Howdy my guy?

toneyb:

I will like to hear the opinion of other atheist in the house.

Er, let me quickly comment on your tripe before the happy atheists in the house sing their halleluyah chorus!

You know, everyone actually plays the persecution card regardless whether they are religious or not - it just depends on knowing how to wind up or twist the arm of whosoever you hope to lead into waving the victim's card. But just to be sure, even atheists themselves do the very same things: even where atheists argue that they don't have any 'beliefs', it is not hard to find them flinching and then flagging the 's.o.s victim's support' banner!

Let me draw some out from your post:

Why are Christians and Muslims so eager to play the persecution card when they persecute so many?

It is ironic that you as an atheist should be asking that question; but do atheists not do the same and even more than that? Certainly, the reasons are either the same (where atheists and atheist governments have no qualms 'persecuting' religious people) or they may be other reasons for the atheist complaining of being persecuted. Between the mixed voices heard on this subject are a few examples below:

(a)   'Christians have been guilty of persecuting Atheists much to our shame. And Atheists have been guilty of persecuting Christians, much to their shame.' [Trent Mcclure at Helium]

(b)   Someone by the catch name 'Sinister minister' whines about 'Persecution of Atheists in Public Schools' - often happens in that part of the world known as America, hehe.

On a more serious note, the subject of persecution is not such a light thing. Many religious people suffer untold persecution under atheist regimes - for no other reason than having religious beliefs. We know many atheists would like to just keep that obvious example hush-hush, but toneyb, if you give any bit of seriousness to the reality of atheistic persecution of religious people, I doubt this thread would have been cast in the frivolous manner as appear in your OP.

toneyb:

They are so eager to preach against us (atheists), gays, any other religion outside of their own . . .

That's again the very precise thing you will find many atheists do! It's funny you almost sound like you're waving the victim's card here yourself in that quip of "preach against us (atheists)", haha. But atheists are also eager to preach against religious people, no? The perfect sport for atheist has always been to lash out against 'religion' to the point where one begins to wonder that you folks sometimes do not take a minute to ponder on your own atheist fundamentalism.

. . . and anyone living a lifestyle they that is different from their or which they don't approve.

Oh c'mon, dude! Do atheists smile approvingly of the beliefs and lifestyle of religious people? Where? When? How? The bottomline factually played out daily is that atheists themselves are quite as guilty on this point on account of their own disapproval of the lifestyles of those who hold religious or other beliefs different from their own! Please let me know if you have the stomach to debate this and I shall only be too gald to point you to several examples.

Often you hear the most hate filled ridiculous comments you can imagine coming out of the mouth of the servants of Allah and the Children of Jehovah.

That's shamefully true - but we know of far worse bigotry spewing out of the bowels of atheists themselves. The difference IMO is that atheists tend to assume an air of idealistic comfort in their ridiculous aspersions and blatant hate-mongering.

Yet the slightest comment against them raises they're fury beyond believe. You see them summarily condemning people most of the time, justifying hate, bigotry, genocide and death. Yet they are very quick to clutch the persecution card when their beliefs or actions are questioned?

We're all guilty in this; but far more shameful is that the atheist assumes this is unique to religious people and is too slow to admit that far worse things greet us everyday from atheist quarters. Most atheists would sooner condemn people, justify their own hate and bigotry (with a smack of plutonic pride) and excuse deaths under atheist regimes, than apply their thinking to sensible issues. Yes, it's all done in the name of the 'persecution card' that atheists also wave in our faces when questioned.

The atheists or others from another religion makes fun of them and it's persecution for their beliefs. . It seems to me that, anyone daring to tell a Christian or a Muslim to follow the laws, and not force their religion on others is "persecution" these days.

Let me guess: do atheists care two rat's behind about following 'the laws'? Hahaha ... dude, this is one subject where I'd really like to school you up on how many atheists just like to break the law! Try me - your life will never be the same after the revelation!

My own theory is that they are fed misconceptions of none believers for as long as they are indoctrinated in the infallibility theories of their god and its important to dispel these opinions too.

Just pass, hehe. I don't think you would be positing such an unfounded theory if only you thought carefully through your arguments and realised that atheists often feed themselves on their atheistic indoctrinations and misconceptions about believers. Although we have to admit that many beliefs which religious people hold are quite misplaced - but we know also that many atheists hold quite unfounded beliefs about religious people. What the informed theist tries to do today is seeking to understand people and issues without misconstruing them for what they are not. Perhaps you might like to try that sometimes.

All this your people are doing it too arguments can tire me

I don't believe the persecution is always one-sided.

All social or religious groups devoid of any spiritual depth are totally embedded in the EGO, therefore they always play the persecution card and use special pleading to get their way. They are all ego driven in their nature.Their "i am right, so everybody else must be wrong, and if i am not allowed to be right, then i am being persecuted" way of thinking clearly shows that nature.

jagunlabi:

All social or religious groups devoid of any spiritual depth are totally embedded in the EGO, therefore they always play the persecution card and use special pleading to get their way. They are all ego driven in their nature.Their "i am right, so everybody else must be wrong, and if i am not allowed to be right, then i am being persecuted" way of thinking clearly shows that nature.

Absolutely spot on! Forget the issue of 'spiritual depth' - it does not matter what level of spirituality (or the lack thereof) may be evident in the lives of the 'persecution card carriers', people naturally tend to do these things. The funny thing is that some atheists assume these issues (persecution, reasons why people turn to beliefs, etc) are to be attributed only to religious people in the idea that the same issues have no bearing in the lives and experiences of atheists themselves. It is the height of hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty for the atheist to complain about these things in religious people without acknowledging that the same complaints sit quite well with atheists themselves.

Chrisbenogor:

All this your people are doing it too arguments can tire me

It shouldn't be tiring if and only if atheists are going to be honest without being funny.

Viaro abeg take a chill pill, what I said was for the thread generally, why the thing dey bite you?

Yes I can say christians are fond of the whole your people are doing it too thing, I dont really post on muslim threads so I dont know what their response thingy, you tell a christian look Moses ordered the death of women and children and they say oh pinochet was an atheist he did the same thing.

Chrisbenogor:

Viaro abeg take a chill pill, what I said was for the thread generally, why the thing dey bite you?

But what I said was also for the thread generally - why does it bite you?

Chrisbenogor:

Yes I can say christians are fond of the whole your people are doing it too thing, I dont really post on muslim threads so I dont know what their response thingy, you tell a christian look Moses ordered the death of women and children and they say oh pinochet was an atheist he did the same thing.

Yes, we have grown quite bored with the usual antics of atheists complaining only about 'deaths and murders' as if atheist regimes are not guilty of the same thing! That is why I hinted that the usual atheistic thing to do is pretend to look the other way when such issues are brought to the fore and asking the atheists to grow up!

The atheist who plays the 'victim's card' when these issues are pointed out in the atheist camp is actually being intellectually dishonest and hypocritical - that is not to say that I ignored the fact that some of these worrying trends are present among religious people. The basic point here is that these convenient piddling runs across board - they are not perculiar or unique to religious folks: atheists are as guilty of the same things complained about in the OP.

viaro:

But what I said was also for the thread generally - why does it bite you?

If it was for the thread you should not have quoted my post.

Chrisbenogor:

If it was for the thread you should not have quoted my post.

I didn't know that. Perhaps quoting yours was the problem - just about the same thing in my quoting others for the sake of the thread (toneyb's and jagunlabi's). I apologise if quoting yours was missing the point.

viaro:

But what I said was also for the thread generally - why does it bite you?

Yes, we have grown quite bored with the usual antics of atheists complaining only about 'deaths and murders' as if atheist regimes are not guilty of the same thing! That is why I hinted that the usual atheistic thing to do is pretend to look the other way when such issues are brought to the fore and asking the atheists to grow up!

The atheist who plays the 'victim's card' when these issues are pointed out in the atheist camp is actually being intellectually dishonest and hypocritical - that is not to say that I ignored the fact that some of these worrying trends are present among religious people. The basic point here is that these convenient piddling runs across board - they are not perculiar or unique to religious folks: atheists are as guilty of the same things complained about in the OP.

Typical pilgrim defence, your boredom or your being tired still does not change that those people were murdered. Like I told tpia if your problem is the killings by atheists raise a thread and I will be the first to condemn it, just raise the thread. If a thread is about the blood thirsty Moses then lets discuss the gore he brought to innocent women and children, the whole your people are doing it too argument sucks. Besides if another atheist kills people I dont see how concerns me that is their business, you can raise it up to me if you think my lifestyle is similar to theirs but that should be another thread ok or at least not in your defence.

Chrisbenogor:

Typical pilgrim defence, your boredom or your being tired still does not change that those people were murdered. Like I told tpia if your problem is the killings by atheists raise a thread and I will be the first to condemn it, just raise the thread.

This is rather sick and redundant, Chris. It's obvious that it's not only pilgrim that thinks that these atheistic excuses have become such a silly bore - I'd followed the same thing in tpia's comments (and others as well) when you atheists glory in the same arguments. The fact is that atheists will see these things as peculiarly "religious" instead of standing up to admit on equal terms that ATHEISTS MURDER people free of charge and as as guilty as the charge they lay at the doorstep of religious people! Your piddling here is even more childish than the initial whining about my quoting your post - as if that is the bigger thing to worry about and there's a new rule on NL that no one should be quoting posts by Chrisbenogor!

I had initially presented BOTH sides of the OP's concern -

viaro:

Between the mixed voices heard on this subject are a few examples below:

(a)   'Christians have been guilty of persecuting Atheists much to our shame. And Atheists have been guilty of persecuting Christians, much to their shame.' [Trent Mcclure at Helium]

That should tell you at least that I was not trying to play to just one side of the problem. The very things that the OP in his atheistic outlook was ascribing to religious people quite well sits entrenched in atheist experiences - that is FACT! I wonder if you missed that before complaining here like you're the only one affected by this subject simply because I 'quoted your post'? The way you guys present your arguments sometimes leaves one very sorry for you indeed.

Chrisbenogor:
If a thread is about the blood thirsty Moses then lets discuss the gore he brought to innocent women and children, the whole your people are doing it too argument sucks.

Your argument in particular sucks! You often glory in waving that same argument repeatedly to the point of such hypocrisy in failing to see that atheists are as guilty as what they charge at religious folks. In case you missed it, I noted that BOTH sides of the issue should be presented and observed by the atheist who is often only interested in whining and griping on and on about 'religious people' persecuting "us (atheists)". Pretending otherwise is what makes the atheist's argument really suck!

Besides if another atheist kills people I dont see how concerns me that is their business, you can raise it up to me if you think my lifestyle is similar to theirs but that should be another thread ok or at least not in your defence.

Please pass and stop whinging! It sucks to read your comments about atheists murdering people swept under the excuse of "that is their business" - the typical atheistic excuse of convenience. If someone would say the same thing about it being the business of religious people killing anyone, you will burn NL with your bigotry and plutonic hypocrisy. Your fellows should be truly ashamed at your excuses.

Viaro stop making noise, again like pilgrim you manage to run around looking for trivial issues to shift focus from what we are actually discussing and I will not get sucked in.
1.Please point out where I accused you of playing one side?
2. When a thread is opened to discuss genocide in Rwanda for instance we can say oh yes the tutsi's were wrong or right, but no because the person asking is german he has to deal with hitlers own too. Even if you do point out what hitler did me I have passed my own quick judgement that is was wrong something that religious people will never admit simple.

I am really bad a the divide and conquer thing, just try and get the general message I am trying to send and forget the grammar and syntax of the words, all I am saying in a summary is simple, if this thread is about hitlers murder of 6 million Jews let us discuss it, saying that the OP is Rwandan does not take away that hitler killed 6 million jews and has nothing to do with hypocrisy, I will be a hypocrite if I cannot see anything wrong with anyone killing in the name of religion or lack of it in some instances and be happy with it in some instances, you can accuse me of never raising a thread to talk of atheistic murders and we can discuss that.

Oh and by the way

If someone would say the same thing about it being the business of religious people killing anyone, you will burn NL with your bigotry and plutonic hypocrisy. Your fellows should be truly ashamed at your excuses.

The above sounded like you were throwing a tantrum, hope you did not break anything.

Chrisbenogor:

Viaro stop making noise, again like pilgrim you manage to run around looking for trivial issues to shift focus from what we are actually discussing and I will not get sucked in.

What are we "actually discussing"?

No, viaro is not making noise. If you weren't looking for where to vomit your own instability, no one invited you here in the first place - and the childish grumbling about my quoting your post showed me you were a disturbance to yourself. Your being sucked in is your own problem - not mine or anyone else's.

To reassure you, I did not look for trivial issues but dealt precisely with the concerns in th OP. Actually I had quite a load of well articulated pointers and evidences for the comments I was going to make, but it seemed the spam got me and I had no choice than to edit my post and leave the redaction standing. If you have any substance in your discussions at all, I would have seen far more than your complaints than the miserly back-and-forth and typically atheist excuses you tend to wave as your firstaid.

1.Please point out where I accused you of playing one side?

Easy. Please show me where I stated that you "accused" me?

2. When a thread is opened to discuss genocide in Rwanda for instance we can say oh yes the tutsi's were wrong or right, but no because the person asking is german he has to deal with hitlers own too.

And how does that bear upon the concerns of what I stated in regards to the OP? I am neither German nor a Tutsi (oh yeah, I understand that was an analogy ... so pls don't go splitting hairs over that) - but even so, if the OP had wanted to talk about merely persecution of "us (atheists)" without reference to CHRISTIANS, I would simply take no notice of his boredom. Did you miss the fact that he had mentioned "Christians" in the OP as well? Which is why I think your grumbling about tutsi and german is just fine piffling and nothing else.

Even if you do point out what hitler did me I have passed my own quick judgement that is was wrong something that religious people will never admit simple.

But Chris, did you calm down to notice that I highlighted the same thing? Let me bring the quote again in my initial response:

       'Christians have been guilty of persecuting Atheists much to our shame.
        And Atheists have been guilty of persecuting Christians, much to their shame.'

If worrying over what is wrong is your problem, then by that quote above I was indicating the same thing resonating throughout my initial posts - please see again the following:

(1)

viaro:

toneyb: Often you hear the most hate filled ridiculous comments you can imagine coming out of the mouth of the servants of Allah and the Children of Jehovah.

That's shamefully true - but we know of far worse bigotry spewing out of the bowels of atheists themselves. The difference IMO is that atheists tend to assume an air of idealistic comfort in their ridiculous aspersions and blatant hate-mongering.

(2)

viaro:

toneyb: Yet the slightest comment against them raises they're fury beyond believe. You see them summarily condemning people most of the time, justifying hate, bigotry, genocide and death. Yet they are very quick to clutch the persecution card when their beliefs or actions are questioned?

We're all guilty in this; but far more shameful is that the atheist assumes this is unique to religious people and is too slow to admit that far worse things greet us everyday from atheist quarters.

You can see from the above that you statement that  religious people don't admit certain obvious issues {as in ". . .that is was wrong something that religious people will never admit simple"} is FACTUALLY FALSE!

The problem here is that the typical atheist will pretend to not see that religious people admit that certain 'wrong things' have been committed by religious folks in the name of religion; but the same typical atheist at the same time will not be happy to EQUALLY and READILY admit that atheists are as guilty of the things they charge against religious people.

If then it is a happy trend to deplore these 'wrong', then the atheist should be willing to admit that atheists themselves do the same thing without reference to religion - that would be far more sincere and intelligent than the silly excuses that atheists who murder other people are doing "their own business", or that calling atheists to wake up from their piffling is 'tiring' simply because you can's stand the fact of what is presented.

Chrisbenogor:
I am really bad a the divide and conquer thing, just try and get the general message I am trying to send and forget the grammar and syntax of the words, all I am saying in a summary is simple, if this thread is about hitlers murder of 6 million Jews let us discuss it, saying that the OP is Rwandan does not take away that hitler killed 6 million jews and has nothing to do with hypocrisy, I will be a hypocrite if I cannot see anything wrong with anyone killing in the name of religion or lack of it in some instances and be happy with it in some instances, you can accuse me of never raising a thread to talk of atheistic murders and we can discuss that.

I am trying to understand your message without reading any specially assigned syntax into your comments, trust me. The one thing that I find funny is your far-fetched analogy (which simply does not apply here at all), so that the way you try to excuse the fact that atheists are guilty of the same thing here expressed in the OP is rather humorous.

It would be hypocritical and intellectually dishonest either ways (whether for the atheist or for viaro) to excuse the concerns in the OP positing this thingy about CHRISTIANS and Muslims being so eager to "preach against us (atheists)" - that would just be like asking the Christian to pretend that atheists never preach againt Christians and/or Muslims ... and eagerly so! It has nothing to do with the far-fetched German commenting on a Rwandan genocide that has nothing to do with the Germans.

Oh and by the wayThe above sounded like you were throwing a tantrum, hope you did not break anything.

I was not - you wish. It does not take anything away from the fact that your excuses at atheist murders are shameful, to say the least.

^^^
I do not think the argument above is necessary. When a Christian commits murder, that has absolutely nothing to do with Christians. But when murder is done in the name of God or alleged to be sanctioned by God, people are right to make issues out of it. Likewise, when an atheist commits a crime, that is his business. But if an atheistic government, like we had in the Soviet Union and the other countries of the Eastern Block, murders people for being religious, there is an issue there and religious people are right to use it to remind atheists that atheism is not always the “live-and-let-live” ideology it is often portrayed to be. Reminding people that Pinochet, “an atheist”, killed people when Moses is mentioned makes no sense at all because Pinochet did not commit his crimes in the name of atheism. By the way, Pinochet was no atheist. (You come across this sort of thing in NL for the first time.) He actually tried to portray himself as a defender of God and freedom of worship against atheistic communism.

viaro:

On a more serious note, the subject of persecution is not such a light thing. Many religious people suffer untold persecution under atheist regimes - for no other reason than having religious beliefs. We know many atheists would like to just keep that obvious example hush-hush, but toneyb, if you give any bit of seriousness to the reality of atheistic persecution of religious people, I doubt this thread would have been cast in the frivolous manner as appear in your OP.

This is absolutely right. There may be people who suffer from a persecution complex, but religious persecution is real. It is brutal. People have been mobbed, beaten, jailed, tortured and murdered. It was bad in the Soviet Union and the Eastern Block countries during the Communist era. As we speak here, it is going on in Eritrea, where the government recognizes only three faiths – Catholic, Moslem and the Eritrean Orthodox Church. Protestant Christians and other religious minorities face horrible persecutions daily and these include beatings, imprisonment, sexual assault and murder. I doubt toneyb would write the op the way he did if he knows the extent of this problem. Persecution is much more serious than people having beliefs questioned.

MyJoe:

Persecution is much more serious than people having beliefs questioned.

Thank you for putting it in a better way than I had thought of.