If you want me to respond to anything, ask , not by sending abuses.

What a ninny you are. Didn't I say that English comprehension was your problem.

Joagbaje:

You will rather quote bible . So Your "john Gill" is word of God. What hypocrisy. Should quote other comentaries for you?
Take Adam Clarke  commentary for example.

Read carefully what you posted from Clarke's:

That they without us should not be made perfect. Believers before the flood, after the flood, under the law, and since the law, make but one Church.  The Gospel dispensation is the last, and the Church cannot be considered as complete till the believers under all dispensations are gathered together.  As the Gospel is the last dispensation, the preceding believers cannot be consummated even in glory till the Gospel Church arrive in the heaven of heavens.

As you can see, it clearly undermines your position. As always you are in a haste to post (you must have the last word), rather than taking time to meditate on God's word.

Joagbaje:

I dont even need commentaries on this. The bible is clear enough for m.

But yet you deliberately misrepresent this simple verse:

Heb 11:40  since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Shame on you.

nuclearboy:

Yep, went to school - not 419 schooling though, which is why I have a job, a career, a business which produces something and adds to the economy. Where is the benefit of your CEC 419 "so called theology" studies (obviously all you have) - when you have to resort to lying, begging, cajoling people to bring the fruits of their own labor (including theft and fraud) so you can have a life. Dude, don't let me start on you and yaps oyaks and your study of what happened to Moses and whether he died or not. Pastor wey no know Bible or God!

Yeah; and there are BILLIONS of unbelievers all over the world too - are they right because they have large numbers?  Dude, wake up. I keep telling you this is not a pulpit where you can whip up excitement amongst gullible people and get no response.

why should you conclude I'm not contributing anything to society? I'm not like you . I'm a multipurpose man. I'm an artist. Sculptor,painter with several exhibitions. In and out of the country. Meet me on facebook if you want to know my world. I'm not a destroyer like you. Others are building Christ kingdom you guys only specialize in tearing it with posts and thread that don't contribute but destroy. Men of God are working. Praying and fasting , building lives. You guys Guys sit down and attack and criticise . How many souls have you won for Jesus , what I'm I saying sef . Does he understand salvation in the first place. PLEASE DONT PREACH OO! make u no go send people to hell.!

You called me Eleyin rira! Kai! You nko. Eleyin wankaka bi oku cementary! Oloju four corner bio showglass iya alakara! Elese wogowogo bii wogo train!!!!

Altheia , shame on your hypocrisy, why highlighting one part and leaving the other. The part I wanted you to see was the last part. " which states that until Christian get to heaven" which part you deliberately and cunningly ignore . FAT SHAME.!

You are pitiful! You still come back to this "artist" issue? Yeah, but is that not your "face"? Is it not true that the bucks roll in from "church" but all of you need something to justify that so its not obvious. Leave tithes and "gifts" out of your ministries and lets see if you can feed yourself anymore. Kunle already showed you as what you are!

Ol'boy, just google "christ embassy" and see the exposes available on your scams.

QUOTE
Men of God are working. Praying and fasting, building lives
UNQUOTE

Yes, WE are. But 2nd Peter goes to the point in exposing what YOU are doing -" exploiting with stories (ROR) they have made up"

aletheia:

@Joagbaje:
I noticed that instead of responding to the scriptures posted on this thread that demolish your assertions, you adopt a three-pronged tactic;
a. Ignore them, (maybe they will go away)
b. Accuse others of insulting you (conveniently ignoring the fact that you have bandied insults here - what hypocrisy!)
c. Arrogant and prideful words designed to bamboozle, obfuscate and confuse.

Youve always been looking for ways to brand me with something. it is as though you are not as interested in the topic of discus as much as joagbaje.

But you know what?
Time and again on various threads on this forum, the thoughts and intentions of your heart have been exposed, and your arguments and lofty opinions destroyed.

If i didnt reply There must be a reason, either events overtook it while I was away , and if someone raise such again ,i respond. Why should I run away when i have the truth. Except of course if there is an abusive post. I stopped responding to you before because you dont show fruits of a christian in all these abuses. Present your case , back it up with facts, and hear out others, because . YOU MAY JUST BE WRONG! Dont forget that. When you feel you score a point, the next thing is name calling and all. You may not agree with me. but must we fight?

Joagbaje:

Altheia , shame on your hypocrisy, why highlighting one part and leaving the other. The part I wanted you to see was the last part. " which states that until Christian get to heaven" which part you deliberately and cunningly ignore . FAT SHAME.!

^^^Go back and read it again. This is turning into an English lesson. BTW it is Aletheia not Altheia.

That they without us should not be made perfect. Believers before the flood, after the flood, under the law, and since the law, make but one Church.  The Gospel dispensation is the last, and the Church cannot be considered as complete till the believers under all dispensations are gathered together.  As the Gospel is the last dispensation, the preceding believers cannot be consummated even in glory till the Gospel Church arrive in the heaven of heavens.

Let me help you. Sentence by sentence.

Believers before the flood, after the flood, under the law, and since the law, make but one Church.

Do I really need to explain this. Alright, it means from both OT & NT; whether before and after Noah, before and after Moses, before and after John the Baptist, all believers are one Church.

The Gospel dispensation is the last, and the Church cannot be considered as complete till the believers under all dispensations are gathered together.

As you no doubt know: God's revelation has been progressive through several dispensations,
Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

As the Gospel is the last dispensation, the preceding believers cannot be consummated even in glory till the Gospel Church arrive in the heaven of heavens.

This clearly echoes Heb 11:40: "the preceding believers cannot be consummated even in glory" i.e. that they without us should not be made perfect.

Isn't the perfection (i.e. the glorification) of the saints in Heaven when Christ returns?

1 Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Co 15:50-52  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

^^^  That is the truth not that Moses is learning from you and Liardon the theory and practise of "lying" and "homosexuality".

When the "time is full" and ALL are gathered, "perfection will be"!

@Aletheia:

Please translate into Yoruba for him. His diction seems restricted to erROR

Joagbaje:

I stopped responding to you before because you dont show fruits of a christian in all these abuses. Present your case , back it up with facts, and hear out others, because . YOU MAY JUST BE WRONG! Dont forget that. When you feel you score a point, the next thing is name calling and all.  You may not agree with me. but must we fight?

Yeah, play the "Aletheia has abused Joagbaje card" instead of responding to the issues raised here. I once challenged you to show an instance of when I abused or insulted you, with the proviso that I will apologize if you show me where I went wrong. Doesn't the bible say if your brother offends you then you should bring it to his attention (Matt 18:15). But till today, you have not done so.

And aren't you the hypocrite? What is the meaning of this:

Joagbaje:

You called me Eleyin rira! Kai! You nko. Eleyin wankaka bi oku cementary! Oloju four corner bio showglass iya alakara! Elese wogowogo bii wogo train!!!!

Jas 3:10-13  Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

aletheia:

^^^Go back and read it again. This is turning into an English lesson. BTW it is Aletheia not Altheia.
Let me help you. Sentence by sentence.Do I really need to explain this. Alright, it means from both OT & NT; whether before and after Noah, before and after Moses, before and after John the Baptist, all believers are one Church.
As you no doubt know: God's revelation has been progressive through several dispensations,
Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
This clearly echoes Heb 11:40: "the preceding believers cannot be consummated even in glory" i.e. that they without us should not be made perfect.

Isn't the perfection (i.e. the glorification) of the saints in Heaven when Christ returns?.

I didnt disagree that they were saved, But their spirits were not yet recreated. They couldnt contain God nor the holyspirit, Every Jew believe a messiah was coming. But they didnt understand the nature of his coming. They were expecting a warrior like Samson. We and them are part  of Gods kingdom, Gods family. But they are not part of Christ's kingdom. This new life started with us.It is a new thing for them to behold. The life is in Jesus, and until a man receives him on the inside he cant partake of that life.

1 John 5:11-12
   And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Religious activity does not grant a man this life. He has to be born into it. I will elaborately comment on the scriptures you quoted tommorow. I wont forget this. If you prove me wrong . I wont deny it.but  you must hear  me out without biases.

Joagbaje:

Religious activity does not grant a man this life. He has to be born into it. I will elaborately comment on the scriptures you quoted tommorow. I wont forget this. If you prove me wrong . I wont deny it.but  you must hear  me out without biases.

Fair enough. I await your responses then.

And aren't you the hypocrite? What is the meaning of this:
You called me Eleyin rira! Kai! You nko. Eleyin wankaka bi oku cementary! Oloju four corner bio showglass iya alakara! Elese wogowogo bii wogo train!!!!

You should know by the tone of my writing that I was only having fun. Playing along with nuclear boy. Its not out anger or anything, I was laughing with myself doing it. I expect him to laugh too. The spirit of Christ in me will not allow me to degenerate into such attitude. I will rather quit.

^^^ "Joagbaje playing with me?"

asking myself - Why do these guys find it so easy to lie? Totally seared consciences, most likely. Plus of course, they are sinless even when they sin or worst case, God is there having nothing to do but forgive them (name and claim 101, as aletheia called it). Me, I wasn't playing with you. What you do not realise is that I have precedence. Jesus called some hypocrites, liars, theives! Elijah stood against the prophets of Baal because they stood AGAINST God. They on their part, were against him because he stood against THEM.

Whist my inclination is for peace with all men, such as you make me want to puke with your double-talk and smooth ways. Like the Lord, Elijah and numerous others like Martin Luther, I will stand against anyone who stands against God for sake of his own greed.

Aletheia is right putting that to you because your defence is FOR YOU rather than for God! ole!

It is becoming obvious that reasoning and biblical truths are lost on Joagbaje in his numerous delusions based on the flesh-pleasing doctrine of "Christ" Embassy and Word of Faith generally. Of course, his recurrently flowing poison must be continually combated with the antidote of biblical truths. In the process, it seems that ridicule is all he, "Christ" Embassy and their heretic-in-chief opaks Oyaks and the whole Word of Faith movement deserve. As for him turning from this vomit of satan, only the divine power of God can do that.

Joagbaje:

They were labelled righteous men in generic terms, but they didn't have the nature and the gift of righteousness.

This line shows that the maker is a prideful person who places his/CEC/WoF's fleshly, arrogant doctrine above the very words of God Almighty Himself

Compare the nonsense and what the Bible says in Genesis 15:6

And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he [the LORD] counted it to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

What is "generic" about "righteousness" in that passage --- except in the eyes of those preaching a different and a heretical "gospel"? We know that Joagbaje and his like not only prefer to remain in biblical ignorance but are actually worse in that they will ignore, hide and even themselves hide from biblical truth. So, not so much for his sake but for the sake that such wolves may mislead, here is what Paul says in amplification of the righteousness mentioned in that Genesis 15:6

Romans 4

1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2For [if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5[b]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.[/b]

6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8[b]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin[/b].

9Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all . . . .

Is it not clear that Abraham received justification, righteousness and also his sin not imputed all because of his faith? This same Abraham is described as the father of all that believe. All that believe in what or whom?

Is it not clear that only a theological illiterate or a biblically un/misinformed person or an out and out liar and deceiver who will say that "righteousness" used in connection with Abraham (and ergo all who believe like he did) in those passages is "generic" i.e. not specific as in salvation?

Joagbaje:
They were shaddows. They are not part of the church of Christ.

Even without further refutation, a number of earlier posts and passages that have been posted (e.g. by aletheia and ttalks) already show that the above is the line of a theological dunce! Where does it say Abraham or other Old Testament were shadows let alone "shaddows" (sic)?

As has been pointed out was it not the same Abraham of whom Jesus said:

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.

Is it not a biblically un/misinformed person or a liar and deceiver that will say Abraham is not part of the Church of Christ? The same Abraham of whom Christ spoke as quoted? The same Abraham that Paul described as the father of all who believe?

What about Moses (and indeed the others mentioned in Hebrews 11)? He is (they are) not part of the Church of Christ? Here is what Hebrews 11 says:

23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26[b]Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt[/b]: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

Oh who to believe ? The Rhapsody of Realities aka book of erRoRs or the Bible?

They can't attain perfection until we get to heaven.

The Hebrews passage concerned has been explained by at least three of us on this thread using various techniques. Yet I am not surprised that Pasiiitor Joagbaje remains recalcitrant --- considering his flesh-motivated doctrine. One small mercy, assuming I'm right, I notice he has not used the line that he and his fellow WoF "born again" (including the likes of Liardon, Haggard & Crouch) are the ones making the OT saints perfect!

When I said it was a book of er[b]ROR[/b]s Joagbaje said I was yabbing.

Joagbaje:

Religious activity does not grant a man this life. He has to be born into it. I will elaborately comment on the scriptures you quoted tommorow. I wont forget this. If you prove me wrong . I wont deny it.but  you must hear  me out without biases.

He wants to go and study the book of erRoRs some more --------- and dig himself into further error and even heresy! Meanwhile don't hold your breath that he will genuinely address the scriptures indeed; the likelihood is that he will find tangentially related scriptures and twist them again to fit into his error!

Reading Joagbaje's posts; sometimes you wonder where to start as it is full of errors large and small! However, at the heart of the litany of errors are some fundamental errors and even heresies which include (among others):

1. The downgrading of Jesus to the status of a man; a man who needed to be "born again"; who needed his spirit "recreated".

2. The elevation of (the "born-again" man to a status equal with (and indeed sometimes even higher than) Jesus; thus this so-called "born-again" man, has his spirit "recreated" supposedly like Jesus and when that happens this so-called "born-again" man becomes a "super-human".

Of course none of this is taught in scripture and each is heresy; it is their fleshly insistence on seeing themselves as super-human having been "born-again" that is at the heart of their inability to see that they are just ordinary sinners who sometimes (like Liardon, Haggard & Crouch) are even worse than non-believers or supposedly none "born-agains"! They have bastardised the words "born again" and insult those words by their doctrine.

Their flesh-pleasing doctrine induces them into the deadly sin of pride and they place themselves above everyone else including biblical patriarchs, heros and saints --- people whose shoe-laces they are unfit to tie. Their sin of pride of the flesh make them place themselves above Abraham, Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist. I mean someone wants to compare those names to Liardon, Haggard and heretics like Hagin, Copeland, Oyakhilome let alone minions like Joagbaje? Is the person not blinded by pride and conceit?

They delude themselves that they "speak in tongues", "cast out demons", "perform  miracles" when sane persons, Christians or not, can see that the emperor has no clothes.


As a side dig: these fellows will say they preach tithing because Abraham did it; now they turn around and downgrade the same Abraham; this same Abraham whom they say is not in the kingdom of heaven (despite the clear words of Jesus Himself); this same Abraham whom they say is learning from them.

WoF has no morals, is devoid of principle, is all diabolically geared towards denying the teachings of Christ and of the Bible and in the process lining the pockets of its wolves at the sheeple's expense!

I think what joagbaje meant to state is that sin is not imputed to non-Christians with reference to the subject of born again because non-Christians were never at any point in time being born again.

My understanding of the subject is that one is not born again by accepting and confessing Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour. One who does that accepts the salvation of Christ offered by grace.

Non-Christians accept Jesus and are saved but 'Christians' that is those who believe in the person of Jesus Christ but somehow shift thier ground of believe must be born again.

For example, a preacher who on account of his intent at winning an election changes his ground of belief and now teaches or preaches that "We (everybody) all serve the same God!" has died to his original belief in God as the Father of Jesus Christ and that anyone who is not a Christian does not belong to God. It is such a Christian that must be born again.

I plan to do a series comparing some Joagbaje "specials" (aka errors or indeed heresies) on this thread to scripture in order to expose them for the nonsense that they are.

Example one: Joagbaje says that Abraham is not in the kingdom of heaven despite clear and express words in the Bible! To justify this position he says:

There is a difference between "The Kingdom of God "  and  "the Kingdom of Heaven" Even though the 2 are used interchangably.One represents his Political structure,the other represents spiritual and moral structure. The Kingdom of heaven is headed by Christ , and we are in the Kingdom of Christ and Kingdom of heaven now. The patriachs of old are in the kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God has always been .It ran from past to the future. But the Kindom of heaven is a temporal one which will run for a period. The kingdom of heaven is to establish the kingdom of God on the earth in the futrure.Christ is the head and king in the Kingdom of heaven but God the father is king in the kingdom of God which is overall. There are similaritie between the two kingdoms because the kindom of heaven is a part of the kingdom of God. But careful study also show that there are things that are not  applicable in the two kngdoms.

There are several things that give a lie to this nonsense:

1. When Matthew uses "kingdom of heaven" for a story or event or teaching, the other gospels tend to use "kingdom of God" for the same story, event or teaching. We have explained why and pointed out that even wikipedia has a decent explanation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_God

2. Now let us stick to Matthew and his use of kingdom of "heaven"; let us try this passage from Matthew 7

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It will be obvious to anyone that the use of kingdom of heaven in that passage is not referring to something "temporal" as Pasiitor Joagbaje claims but really to eternal life or to the kingdom of God. Additionally, what Matthew calls the kingdom of "heaven" in that passage Luke calls the kingdom of God in Luke 13 when first he quotes Jesus in verse 20 asking to what is the kingdom of God to be likened and then ending verse 27 with Jesus saying to prideful people 'depart from me ye workers of iniquity' just as Matthew did when speaking of the kingdom of heaven.

3. In Matthew 13, Jesus is quoted as saying several parables concerning the kingdom of heaven; any sensible, spiritual person not flesh-motivated will see clearly that kingdom of "heaven" is used in all of them in terms of eternal destiny and not a "temporal" thing; in other words, meaning the kingdom of God. It is inexpedient to go through all the parables here but here is one of them.

47Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

49So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I will end this post here as it is already getting long. I will deal with other Pasiitor Joagbaje specials later on; in fact I still want to come back more to this kingdom of heaven versus kingdom of God business.

Obviously Joagabaje cannot cope with the fact that the word of God says clearly that Abraham is in the kingdom of heaven and instead of accepting what the Bible says joagbaje resorts to twisting the Bible ---- just so that the Bible should fit with his Rhapsody of erRoRs! instead of tearing the Rhapsody of erRoRs, he resorts to twisting the words of God, words from the very mouth of Jesus Christ Himself!

Lord have mercy!

With all this ridicling and expose into the incompetence of Joagbaje as a true christian pastor [as opposed to a CEC pastor] i am simply amazed he has not thrown in the towel based on the legion of biblical evidence that enigma, nuclearby and aletheia have shown him on this thread. Obvioulsy pride, conceit and the fear of loosing his percentage of lucre in CEC plc is pushing him to dig himself deeper into erRORs as rightly pointed out by enigma. I have been monitoring this thread closely even thoughi have not been commenting becos honstly Joagbaje's logic and brazen twisting of scriptures makes me sick. It is obvious that he is at least capable of knowing the truth yet he chooses to stick to the wrong path and also join Opaks in leading thousands astray for the sake of filthy lucre. It's really so sad

Before going on to other Pasiitor Joagbaje specials, one more point on the kingdom of heaven or kingdom of God issue. It is important to keep the background in mind.

Jesus said only a born again person will see the kingdom of God (John 3); but then Jesus also said people will see Abraham in the kingdom of God (Luke) which Matthew renders as the kingdom of heaven. Thus Christians understand that Jesus said Abraham will be seen in the kingdom of heaven, in the kingdom of God  which are one and the same.

Pasiitor Joagbaje says No No No, Abraham is not and cannot be in the kingdom of heaven --- though he is in the kingdom of God.

Now who do we believe  the author of the gospel of Matthew who clearly regards the kingdom of heaven as meaning kingdom of God OR Joagbaje (and his seniors, heretics like Oyakhilome, Copeland, Hagin etc)? Remember that Matthew is far more versed in the Hebrew traditions, the Hebrew and other original languages (Aramaic and Greek/Koine Greek) than these latter day bible twisters and changers!

In any event, without relying on a linguistic distinction between "heaven" and "God", the message of the relevant passages can be readily discerned. On top of that when we line the most relevant bits side by side, they in and of themselves show up the modern Bible twisters.

Matthew 8:11

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 13:28-29

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and [from] the west, and from the north, and [from] the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

So again who are we to believe? The authors of Matthew, working with original materials like Q OR modern day prideful, conceited  ignoramuses and flesh-motivated dunces?

These modern day ignoramuses had already claimed to have a better "revelation" than the apostle James of course; so not only do they want to rewrite the book of James, they also want to re-write the gospel of Matthew ----- just so that it can all fit with the heretical Rhapsody of Realities aka book of erRoRs!

So wherever and whenever the Bible contradicts the Rhapsody of Realities aka book of erRoRs, the Bible and its authors must be wrong?

Of course for Christians this is a no brainer just as it was obvious to Joshua in saying "choose these days whom you will serve". For "Christ" (or Chris) Embassy members and their fellow WoFers, it is not surprising that they choose the Rhapsody of erRoRs above the Bible!

Enigma and Altheia
After going through the posts over, I find there is one or two issues You raised which made a great sense. which I need to check up on. If you are right in those areas , I will gladly admit.  and I just need to do a little check up on them. But one fact remain, They were not born again. in The OT. The Issue i need to Check up on is . On what the Blood of jesus Has done for them now.I will respond in details.

OK, moving on to another Joagbaje special: here is Joagbaje saying that Old Testament saints were made righteous by works!

You should know That standard of righteousness has changed in NT from OT. Men were made righteous by works back then, but now men are made righteous by faith in Christ by being born again.

This one is so elementary that it shows that people like Joagbaje are not fit (not biblically sound enough) to be pastors in a true Christian setting; I suppose in WoFer circles of the un/misinformed and the deluded, it's not abnormal!

Anyway, I actually dealt with this one yesterday (as has aletheia and others repeatedly)! Once more, anyhow, let us compare some scripture to the doctrine of "pastor" Jogbaje and his Rhapsody of erRoRs!.

Romans 4:2,3 -

For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

Ephesians 2:8,9 -

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

If we go by Joagbaje then Old Testament saints should be boasting ---- since they achieved their own salvation by their works and not through faith by grace; thus, in fact they are superior to New testament folk who could not achieve it by works. Of course if we go by Christian doctrine we will remind ourselves that everyone's supposed righteousness are as filthy rags before God. Thus no man, whether OT or NT, can achieve righteousness by works; it is all by grace through faith.

This one is a minor Joagbaje special but at the time I let it go because there were more pressing matters.

This scripture of yoursa was prayer of David when he sinned by taking a man's wife and killing the husband. So did God wipe out his transgression? , He was punished for it. He prayed for the sick child, the child still died. Nathan pronounce judgement on david,It came to pass.

Joagbaje's point on this one was that a person who is not "born again" or an "umbeliever" (sic) cannot obtain forgiveness of sins from God; he was then confronted with the episode of David and Bathsheba. Joagbaje's response above was to say that David did not receive forgiveness of his "transgression" (he might start to distinguish btw 'transgression' and 'sin', we'll see).

Anyway, once again he displays his ignorance; he does not realise that David's remorse and his plea for forgiveness is what left us with the legacy of that great Psalm 51!

More specifically on whether David received forgiveness for the Bathsheba 'affair', here is what scripture says:

2 Sam 12:13

So David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die.

(NKJV)

Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.

(NIV)

Of course there were repercussions for David's sin and he received punishment (e.g. the child died) ----- BUT the Lord "took away" David's sin.

Now, according to Joagbaje and his Rhapsody of erRoRs, this should not have been possible because David was not "born again"!

Well I guess God got His own doctrine wrong; thus, Let God be a liar and let Joagbaje and Rhapsody of erRoRs be true.

Of course, Christians know better than my last line and will say let God be true and let Rhapsody of erRoRs and its heretical author and supporters be the liars!!!

Enigma, KunleOshob, InesQor, nuclearboy, aletheia
l wish to throw simple note of warning to all of my respected discussants especially to those whose names are on the roll call above, You don't any reward for aguing and rainning insults no rather you get a reward for the record of souls whose salvation can be acredited your account.

for me a particular note of ineterest is that, of what use it is to the body of christ that a man with all of the supposed resource of knowledge either acquired or obtained by divine revelation still what really counts to Father God-souls is not considered.

The kingdom of darkness is working tirelessly and relentlessly round the clock to lure as many as possible to hell knowing that he has but a short time while the majority of us seat here and expend useful enegies aguing and plexing the strength of knowledge without a view on eternal values. If you repectable men think that "its a book of error" then write your own and get busy winning souls thus enhancing your relevance to the body.

infact quit this waste of precious God-given time and go prove the quality of your understanding of scriptures by presenting fruits of the communication of your faith.

he who has an ear let him,

^^^ Hello Newmi:

The problem with your post is that you ask that we write our own book (commentary) on God's Word. THERE IS NO NEED FOR A COMMENTARY ON THE BIBLE. God ministers to each person that studies it at the point of their need and understanding.

When you studied science at High school, did you read Nelson and Parker's (hope I remember correctly) Principles of Physics or did you write your own and insist your class mates read your own as superior to "Nelson and Parker"? If you could not rewrite a physics textbook written by men and convince others to follow you with that insanity, do you think it is Chris Oyakilome that can re-write God's Word or decide what it means when its plainly obvious it is saying the opposite?

I pray you read this outside of pride or "esteem of man" so that you understand what we're saying. IF THE BOOK (ROR) SUPPORTED THE BIBLE, DO YOU THINK WE'D QUESTION IT'S MOTIVES? If Joagbaje was saying what the Bible says, do you think we'd tell him he's speaking rubbish? Think about it and decide whether you're on God's side or Chris's side - there is no middle ground when it comes to opposing God!

newmi:

Enigma, KunleOshob, InesQor, nuclearboy, aletheia
l wish to throw simple note of warning to all of my respected discussants especially to those whose names are on the roll call above, You don't any reward for aguing and rainning insults no rather you get a reward for the record of souls whose salvation can be acredited your account.

for me a particular note of ineterest is that, of what use it is to the body of christ that a man with all of the supposed resource of knowledge either acquired or obtained by divine revelation still what really counts to Father God-souls is not considered.

The kingdom of darkness is working tirelessly and relentlessly round the clock to lure as many as possible to hell knowing that he has but a short time while the majority of us seat here and expend useful enegies aguing and plexing the strength of knowledge without a view on eternal values. If you repectable men think that "its a book of error" then write your own and get busy winning souls thus enhancing your relevance to the body.

infact quit this waste of precious God-given time and go prove the quality of your understanding of scriptures by presenting fruits of the communication of your faith.

he who has an ear let him,

Please go and sleep.

Do you even understand anything that you are saying?
Don't you know that the souls that you are clamoring about require the exposition of the truth so as to
assure themselves of doing things rightly?

So you are comfortable with the fact that some souls are being led into and through error(erROR) as long as you can be preaching the gospel unhindered?
You are unknowingly being wicked by reasoning like you just did above.

So you would be happy that some couple of people are being led unknowingly into a ditch as long as you can assure your self of one reward for
acting like a robot with no conscience?

Get out of the box in which you are in and see the true picture clearly from the outside.

By their fruits you shall know them; don't be taking in by all the surface artificials, open your eyes and you will see.

@newmi:

newmi:

Enigma, KunleOshob, InesQor, nuclearboy, aletheia
l wish to throw simple note of warning to all of my respected discussants especially to those whose names are on the roll call above, You don't any reward for aguing and rainning insults no rather you get a reward for the record of souls whose salvation can be acredited your account.

Salvation is 100% of the Lord. Your statement above shows that you are one of those who believe in decisionism

newmi:

. . . If you repectable men think that "its a book of error" then write your own and get busy winning souls thus enhancing your relevance to the body.

infact quit this waste of precious God-given time and go prove the quality of your understanding of scriptures by presenting fruits of the communication of your faith.

he who has an ear let him,  

So if I believe that RoR is fraught with errors, teaching things that are against the bible, the best response is to write my own book? What book could be better than the Bible. Unfortunately for you, you believe that a man-made, error-riddled pamphlet is better than the very scriptures. Heed this:

2 Tim 4:3-4  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

You need to ask yourself these questions:
1. Do you have itching ears?
2. Have you turned away from the truth to fables?

newmi:

Enigma, KunleOshob, InesQor, nuclearboy, aletheia
l wish to throw simple note of warning to all of my respected discussants especially to those whose names are on the roll call above, You don't any reward for aguing and rainning insults no rather you get a reward for the record of souls whose salvation can be acredited your account.

for me a particular note of ineterest is that, of what use it is to the body of christ that a man with all of the supposed resource of knowledge either acquired or obtained by divine revelation still what really counts to Father God-souls is not considered.

The kingdom of darkness is working tirelessly and relentlessly round the clock to lure as many as possible to hell knowing that he has but a short time while the majority of us seat here and expend useful enegies aguing and plexing the strength of knowledge without a view on eternal values. If you repectable men think that "its a book of error" then write your own and get busy winning souls thus enhancing your relevance to the body.

infact quit this waste of precious God-given time and go prove the quality of your understanding of scriptures by presenting fruits of the communication of your faith.

he who has an ear let him,

On the contrary CEC is not winning souls for christ rather it is leading christians away from the true gospel and winning members customers for their chuchbusiness. You can't be preaching another gospel contrary to the teachings of Christ and the apostles and claim to be winning souls for christ, it simply is not possible. Jesus christ even said it that many would come in his name, preach in his name, do miracles in his name but he would still cast them out beocs they are workers of iniquity and they have gone contrary to his teachings like Oyaks is doing today. If i preach the truth on this forum and even if it is only one member of CEC that realises the truth, repents and turns to God then i would have performed my duty as a christian by winning a soul into the kingdom.

ENIGMA WAS RIGHT
I will like to state categorically that Enigma and Altheia were both right and correct on the issue of perfection for the OT folks.

Hebrews 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

This scriptures answered it all. The fact remained that they were not born again, while they were on earth but , their change took place when Jesus went into the realm of the departed spirits at his death and brought them out and took them to heaven. The scripture I had quoted earlier was not meant for the OT folks, But for the Nations.


Rev. 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I went over the post again and saw the missing link. I also dug up and old message by pastor chris on " the Kindgdom, power and glory" Which also confirmed their pressent position in glory.

Yes, they were right - AND pastor chris also was right, abi? Why did that have to be announced - that enigma and aletheia have nothing on pastor chris?

Rather than a victory for you, you turned this into another advertisement!

One day, you will serve God and put man in his place!