hoopernikao:

This is not true Bro, and likewise very dangerous.

So long as you continue to cling to doctrines and traditions/commandments of men, the Truth of God( Jesus Christ) which has been in front of us all for about 2000 years now will continue to elude you.

Kobojunkie:
So long as you continue to cling to doctrines and traditions/commandments of men, the Truth of God( Jesus Christ) which has been in front of us all for about 2000 years now will continue to elude you.

I have seen many used this your lines above before including the believing one, non believing ones, atheist, even the ones who know nothing about what they are saying but it still doesn't change the fact that your premise about church gathering is very wrong and dangerous even for you.

The scriptures from Genesis to Revelation is filled with all forms of practices and teachings of gathering unto God.

So, leave aside the doctrine of men quote. Your message attaches the very reason why Jesus died. That's how dangerous it is.

hoopernikao:

I have seen many used this your lines above before including the believing one, non believing ones, atheist, even the ones who know nothing about what they are saying but it still doesn't change the fact that your premise about church gathering is very wrong and dangerous even for you.

The scriptures from Genesis to Revelation is filled with all forms of practices and teachings of gathering unto God.

So, leave aside the doctrine of men quote. Your message attaches the very reason why Jesus died. That's how dangerous it is.

The reason Jesus died? I am afraid I am not certain what reason your doctrines tell you of the reason for which Jesus Christ died.

According to Jesus Christ, what matters is whether you accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments, that is the only way you can have a part of Him and His Kingdom.

Jesus Christ never gave you any commands to suggest you have a duty as far as "gathering unto God" so trying to create a commandment in His New Covenant where there is none given is attempting to add commandments of men which Jesus Christ warned you against doing.

He is the Word of God and God's word is Spirit. Man's words however are nothing but lies where the Spirit(Truth of God) is concerned.

Kobojunkie:
The reason Jesus died? I am afraid I am not certain what reason your doctrines tell you of the reason for which Jesus Christ died.

According to Jesus Christ, what matters is whether you accept(trust) and obey His teachings/commandments, that is the only way you can have a part of Him and His Kingdom.

Jesus Christ never gave you any commands to suggest you have a duty as far as "gathering unto God" so trying to create a commandment in His New Covenant where there is none given is attempting to add commandments of men which Jesus Christ warned you against doing.

He is the Word of God and God's word is Spirit. Man's words however are nothing but lies where the Spirit(Truth of God) is concerned.

You said you practice what Jesus commanded and what you see him do and yet you don't see a reason for Christian gathering?

Like I said, the scriptures has over 500 statements for gathering unto God or as believers, I will appreciate if you can show me JUST ONE scriptures, that speak against or discourage believers gathering. JUST ONE. Even from Genesis to Revelation.

Claiming it wasn't even Christ commandment speak much of the fact that you are yet to know the importance of Christian gathering to Christ death and Christian living.

hoopernikao:

You said you practice what Jesus commanded and what you see him do and yet you don't see a reason for Christian gathering?

Like I said, the scriptures has over 500 statements for gathering unto God or as believers, I will appreciate if you can show me JUST ONE scriptures, that speak against or discourage believers gathering. JUST ONE. Even from Genesis to Revelation.

Claiming it wasn't even Christ commandment speak much of the fact that you are yet to know the importance of Christian gathering to Christ death and Christian living.

You still don't get it? Do these Christians that you see do what Jesus Christ in fact commanded of them?

Or do they instead follow the doctrines and traditions(commandments) of men, lies preached by men to deceive in the Name of God?

If you want to know the teachings of Jesus Christ, read the gospels. Compare what you read of Jesus Christ's own teachings to what you see.

His teachings are right there for you to learn. They are not hidden from you so this is nothing about claiming to know. No, this is about comparing the Truth of God to the lies told by men to deceive other men in the name of God.

There are approximately 46 commandments in the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ, so you gain nothing by pretending that the teachings of Jesus Christ a mysteries, and you profit nothing when you refuse to obey them.

Jesus Christ has called none of His own to put their trust in men and what men do. He called everyone who will follow Him to accept(trust) and obey His commandments/teachings, nothing less will do.

In

Kobojunkie:
You still don't get it? Do these Christians that you see do what Jesus Christ in fact commanded of them?

Or do they instead follow the doctrines and traditions(commandments) of men, lies preached by men to deceive in the Name of God?

If you want to know the teachings of Jesus Christ, read the gospels. Compare what you read of Jesus Christ's own teachings to what you see.

His teachings are right there for you to learn. They are not hidden from you so this is nothing about claiming to know. No, this is about comparing the Truth of God to the lies told by men to deceive other men in the name of God.

There are approximately 46 commandments in the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ, so you gain nothing by pretending that the teachings of Jesus Christ a mysteries, and you profit nothing when you refuse to obey them.

Jesus Christ has called none of His own to put their trust in men and what men do. He called everyone who will follow Him to accept(trust) and obey His commandments/teachings, nothing less will do.

You did answer my question.

You speak against Christian gathering together, fellowship of believers. And said it is doctrine of men.

I need a scriptures that discourage or speak against Christian gathering, I need JUST ONE. JUST ONE. At least. I will give you several practices, events, commandments even from the 4 gospels and words of Jesus that already set a pace for gathering.


2. If there is gathering, there will be leadership. Speaking against leadership in church is speaking against the church itself. The issue here is not whether they preach their own doctrine, the issue here is that you are treading on foot the fabric of Christianity, Christian gathering and leadership in it.

The scriptures from Genesis to Revelation is so loud on gathering unto God and spiritual authority that you cannot successfully speak against it.

So does the scriptures teachings that Christian should gather, yes, loudly.

Does the scriptures teaches spiritual authority and submission to the same, ery loud Sir.

Except you show me JUST ONE scriptures that command us to reject the two above.

hoopernikao:
In
You did answer my question. You speak against Christian gathering together, fellowship of believers. And said it is doctrine of men.
I need a scriptures that discourage or speak against Christian gathering, I need JUST ONE. JUST ONE. At least. I will give you several practices, events, commandments even from the 4 gospels and words of Jesus that already set a pace for gathering.
2. If there is gathering, there will be leadership. Speaking against leadership in church is speaking against the church itself. The issue here is not whether they preach their own doctrine, the issue here is that you are treading on foot the fabric of Christianity, Christian gathering and leadership in it.

The scriptures from Genesis to Revelation is so loud on gathering unto God and spiritual authority that you cannot successfully speak against it.
So does the scriptures teachings that Christian should gather, yes, loudly.
Does the scriptures teaches spiritual authority and submission to the same, ery loud Sir.
Except you show me JUST ONE scriptures that command us to reject the two above.

Please try to follow along!

Let's say there are 46 commandments in total. Now, these 46 commandments were given to you by the person of Jesus Christ, the Word of God Himself. And of the 46 commandments, none is a commandment instructing you to gather with other believers or fellowship with other believers. So, when you refuse to follow men in their "gathering unto God", do you do so in disobedience of any of the commandments given you by Jesus Christ? The obvious answer to that is NO!

Now, one of the 46 commandments given by Jesus Christ instructs you against adding or removing from His teachings/commandments. So when men take it upon themselves to suggest that Jesus Christ commands their many "gathering unto God", in an attempt to add their lie to the teachings of Jesus Christ, it is done in direct disobedience to the very teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ.

Now, since we are clear at this point that your gatherings are not commanded of you by Jesus Christ i.e. God. What you should ask is what your church leadership model and the lot have to do with God if none of what they do was commanded them of Jesus Christ/God Himself, and that question you ought to direct at your so-called church leaders.

Sin is disobedience. In the case of those who believe in Jesus Christ(the New Covenant), Sin involves rejecting/going against the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ - His teachings define for us what sin is. And according to Jesus Christ's own teaching, the only way to overcome sin is to instead accept(trust) and obey His commandments. That is the only way to transition from being a slave to sin, to become instead a Child of God.

So, I am not sure why you feel your "gathering unto God" is of God when God Himself never said so. Rather than continuing to believe what you are told to by men through their many doctrines and tradition(lies), why not instead invest your time and effort into actually learning what Jesus Christ wants of you and putting that into action instead.

Kobojunkie:

Please try to follow along!

So, I am not sure why you feel your "gathering unto God" is of God when God Himself never said so. Rather than continuing to believe what you are told to by men through their many doctrines and tradition(lies), why not instead invest your time and effort into actually learning what Jesus Christ wants of you and putting that into action instead.

I am not sure you are ready to to answer the question as the answer doesnt exist. So, we can conclude firstly, that there is no SINGLE instruction on not gathering or believers not to gathering or discouraging of spiritual authorities. You have NO SINGLE SCRIPTURES. This is clear.

Now,
When you start paying attention to the commandments of Jesus you counted, you will realized that in them are woven the system of people gathering together for one purpose. I know you have issues using Epistles as instructions to believers, so i will start with you in OT writings and 4 Gospels and we will still arrive the same points that you will neglect from the Epistles. The epistles only practiced what they saw in their master (Jesus).

Like i told you early, gathering unto God are instructions from the very first book of the bible to the last.

---

I will give you one case here:

What does Matthew 28:19-21 teaches?

Matthew 28:19-21
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Can you explain what making disciples mean? And likewise look into the practices of discipleship in the scriptures from OT till NT.

Moses had disciples, they gathered.
Elijah had, they gathered
David had, they gathered,

Jesus had, they gathered,
Paul had, they gathered.

The word disciple is from the word mathēteuō (from mathētēs). I will give you how its used.

Note that it was used over 200 times in the 4 gospels, and the reason should be obvious to you.

Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: A GATHERING
Mat 8:23 And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him. A GATHERING
Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
Luk 22:45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow, THEY ARE ALWASY WITH HIM


1. A key aspect of discipleship is gathering, coming together, sitting at the feet (Mary did to Jesus, Paul to Gamalius). You will see this all through the scriptures. A basic essence of training.

2. Another key aspect that stemmed from the first is they are always with you. A disciple, learner is always around or have a good time around his discipler. A key ingredient to learning.
Moses - Joshua, Elijah - Elisha, Elisha - Gehazi, Jesus - the 12, Paul - Timothy, etc.

The moment this presence is missing there is no discipleship. Discipleship is a personal touch not a show of knowledge. It is pouring out your wholeself into another person. You cant achieve such without constant coming together.

---

Again Observe Matthew 28:19 ---make disciples of all nations

Who is to make disciples?
Jesus? No, You are to make disciples, your disciples for Jesus, for God. They are those you got saved and start training just as it is expected that you are trained. Hence, if i am to make disciples, i must have a personal touch, regular meeting, training, instructions for him/her to grow. That in itself is a gathering. And since this is done in the name of the Lord, that is Christian gathering.

---

Lastly, I am surprised that you see a constant practice in Christ, gathering always with his disciples (who you call your discipler, Master) and you speak against such acts because you said that it is not commanded. What then do you learn from your Master? his words alone? His actions and deeds are eternal Bro, they set the pace of what should be for us all.

---

So, if Jesus commanded that you make disciples, and has shown us what discipleship means in his gathering and ever presence with his disciples, Then your claim that he didnt command us to gather must be unscriptural or at least against the will of Christ.

Hence, Bro, i admonish you will need to revisit your study of Christ words and actions again and yield to it by finding a place of fellowship to be discipled or to disciple others.

Kobojunkie:
Not just some but all of them practice doctrines and traditions/commandments of men, that Jesus Christ warned against. The lies have become a sort of addiction, a sort of mind control even, that they run forward to protect their "dealer" when anyone tries to speak/attack with the truth of God.

To find Jesus Christ's own church, you need to go ask Jesus Christ Himself because He is the only one that knows who His followers are.

I can tell you that since I was born and even to this day, I have not seen the LIGHT of JESUS CHRIST shining from any corner of the earth that I have visited so far. And I have looked for it too. That made me think that instead, I should be the one to do as Jesus Christ commands so the LiGht of Jesus Christ can shine through me for others to see and know that Jesus Christ is real. .

My hope is that you will do the very same too.

I have this same mindset even before I joined them. If I had been a follower of men when all these happened, I would have thrown away the sour soup and the pot. But I know Christ is not like men of this world.

hoopernikao:
I am not sure you are ready to to answer the question as the answer doesnt exist. So, we can conclude firstly, that there is no SINGLE instruction on not gathering or believers not to gathering or discouraging of spiritual authorities. You have NO SINGLE SCRIPTURES. This is clear.

Now,
When you start paying attention to the commandments of Jesus you counted, you will realized that in them are woven the system of people gathering together for one purpose. I know you have issues using Epistles as instructions to believers, so i will start with you in OT writings and 4 Gospels and we will still arrive the same points that you will neglect from the Epistles. The epistles only practiced what they saw in their master (Jesus).

Like i told you early, gathering unto God are instructions from the very first book of the bible to the last.

---

I will give you one case here:

What does Matthew 28:19-21 teaches?

Matthew 28:19-21
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Can you explain what making disciples mean? And likewise look into the practices of discipleship in the scriptures from OT till NT.

Moses had disciples, they gathered.
Elijah had, they gathered
David had, they gathered,

Jesus had, they gathered,
Paul had, they gathered.

The word disciple is from the word mathēteuō (from mathētēs). I will give you how its used.

Note that it was used over 200 times in the 4 gospels, and the reason should be obvious to you.

Mat 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: A GATHERING
Mat 8:23 And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him. A GATHERING
Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
Luk 22:45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow, THEY ARE ALWASY WITH HIM


1. A key aspect of discipleship is gathering, coming together, sitting at the feet (Mary did to Jesus, Paul to Gamalius). You will see this all through the scriptures. A basic essence of training.

2. Another key aspect that stemmed from the first is they are always with you. A disciple, learner is always around or have a good time around his discipler. A key ingredient to learning.
Moses - Joshua, Elijah - Elisha, Elisha - Gehazi, Jesus - the 12, Paul - Timothy, etc.

The moment this presence is missing there is no discipleship. Discipleship is a personal touch not a show of knowledge. It is pouring out your wholeself into another person. You cant achieve such without constant coming together.

---

Again Observe Matthew 28:19 ---make disciples of all nations

Who is to make disciples?
Jesus? No, You are to make disciples, your disciples for Jesus, for God. They are those you got saved and start training just as it is expected that you are trained. Hence, if i am to make disciples, i must have a personal touch, regular meeting, training, instructions for him/her to grow. That in itself is a gathering. And since this is done in the name of the Lord, that is Christian gathering.

---

Lastly, I am surprised that you see a constant practice in Christ, gathering always with his disciples (who you call your discipler, Master) and you speak against such acts because you said that it is not commanded. What then do you learn from your Master? his words alone? His actions and deeds are eternal Bro, they set the pace of what should be for us all.

---

So, if Jesus commanded that you make disciples, and has shown us what discipleship means in his gathering and ever presence with his disciples, Then your claim that he didnt command us to gather must be unscriptural or at least against the will of Christ.

Hence, Bro, i admonish you will need to revisit your study of Christ words and actions again and yield to it by finding a place of fellowship to be discipled or to disciple others.

ROFLMAO!!!


So in your mind, Jesus Christ's commandment that we teach the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven to those in the world, means Jesus Christ's teachings endorse your "gathering unto God" and fellowshipping in your churches and your "church leadership"? I really don't know what else I can say after reading this mangled-up "sense" you have presented here. The very fact that you ended up needing to write a long epistle in order to try to convince yourself of it speaks volumes as to the "truthiness" of what you have presented here.

Anyways, you are not alone in your attempts at twisting the words of Jesus Christ to mean what it does not say and you will likely not be the last to do this. You are free to believe what you want to, as am I. Goodluck!

Kobojunkie:
ROFLMAO!!!


So in your mind, Jesus Christ's commandment that we teach the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven to those in the world, means Jesus Christ's teachings endorse your "gathering unto God" and fellowshipping in your churches and your "church leadership"? I really don't know what else I can say after reading this mangled-up "sense" you have presented here. The very fact that you ended up needing to write a long epistle in order to try to convince yourself of it speaks volumes as to the "truthiness" of what you have presented here.

Anyways, you are not alone in your attempts at twisting the words of Jesus Christ to mean what it does not say and you will likely not be the last to do this. You are free to believe what you want to, as am I. Goodluck!

Bro, this is strawman, a strawman, cease from this, a bible student dont throw straws like Pharisee.
Dont go about making statement that negate what the scriptures teaches and then throw straws when challenged. Learn to use scriptures, well you dont have any to use in this case.

---

I first asked you for a scriptures, A SINGLE SCRIPTURE, in all the 31,102 verses of the bible, you have no single one to quote from and defend the error you stated.

Secondly, You claimed to follow Jesus but neglect his practices and practices that are loud in the scriptures. You are wrong Bro, change your ways and change it fast.

I have shown you examples all through the scriptures, gathering, gathering, gathering, gathering, gathering, gathering, ..........
What else do you want to see? Christ commandments? He has already spoken to you in what i typed, take it and change your ways.

hoopernikao:
Bro, this is strawman, a strawman, cease from this, a bible student dont throw straws like Pharisee.
Dont go about making statement that negate what the scriptures teaches and then throw straws when challenged. Learn to use scriptures, well you dont have any to use in this case.

---

I first asked you for a scriptures, A SINGLE SCRIPTURE, in all the 31,102 verses of the bible, you have no single one to quote from and defend the error you stated.

Secondly, You claimed to follow Jesus but neglect his practices and practices that are loud in the scriptures. You are wrong Bro, change your ways and change it fast.

I have shown you examples all through the scriptures, gathering, gathering, gathering, gathering, gathering, gathering, ..........
What else do you want to see? Christ commandments? He has already spoken to you in what i typed, take it and change your ways.

All you have done is show me that you are very versed at twisting what is written to mean and say what you want - doctrines and traditions of men which Jesus Christ warned His followers not to put their trust in. And that is fine for you but not for me.

Jesus Christ never said to "use" Scripture. No, instead He called His followers to ACCEPT(Trust) and Obey His Word. Of course, that is foolishness to those who do not understand.

Kobojunkie:
All you have done is show me that you are very versed at twisting what is written to mean and say what you want - doctrines and traditions of men which Jesus Christ warned His followers not to put their trust in. And that is fine for you but not for me.

Jesus Christ never said to "use" Scripture. No, instead He called His followers to ACCEPT(Trust) and Obey His Word.

Haaaaaa, I thought the issue is even from gathering alone, Haaaaa. Not use scriptures too?
Bro, you comedi me.

You quoted scriptures and yet you have no instructions to use scriptures?

So this your doctrine of God is from who? written by who? same men you refused to follow? or it was dropped from heaven to your feet? Bro, let learning start please. Drop this, go find a place and gather, you even need it more now. Please do.

hoopernikao:
Haaaaaa, I thought the issue is even from gathering alone, Haaaaa. Not use scriptures too?
Bro, you comedi me.

You quoted scriptures and yet you have no instructions to use scriptures?

So this your doctrine of God is from who? written by who? same men you refused to follow? or it was dropped from heaven to your feet? Bro, let learning start please. Drop this, go find a place and gather, you even need it more now. Please do.

Oh, I see! So everything you read in the book, you believe is all man and not God then?

soulpeppersoup:


What were your activity like during the period you were waiting on God?

If you were praying, God would be unrighteous not to have spoken to you or He doesn't exist.

I was in the challenger squad (prayer group) and evangelism group. After that original post with some people criticising me, I went back again to fulfill all righteousness and see if they can do the right thing. This was when they dribbled me like Messi. I patiently waited for months before finally leaving them.

God is not unrighteous. I have had some experience to prove to he was with me. He used all that happened to show me that I was looking for spiritual growth in the wrong place. Men are the unrighteous ones.

Kobojunkie:
Oh, I see! So everything you read in the book, you believe is all man and not God then?

You are the one who called it word of man not me, you said we arent to read scriptures, abi? So what then are we to read? Word of Jesus? Do you even know what that means? That is Study of Genesis to Malachi at the least.

But i asked you, were they all not written by men? Did God drop a verse from heaven? When you remove the activities of men and how God uses men for men to achieve his will, you will end up looking for wonder writings. Because scriptures were written by men, yet God's inspiration.

Bro, go find a place to gather and get better.

hoopernikao:
You are the one who called it word of man not me, you said we arent to read scriptures, abi? So what then are we to read? Word of Jesus? Do you even know what that means? That is Study of Genesis to Malachi at the least.

But i asked you, were they all not written by men? Did God drop a verse from heaven? When you remove the activities of men and how God uses men for men to achieve his will, you will end up looking for wonder writings. Because scriptures were written by men, yet God's inspiration.

I never said any of that. You came up with that line of reasoning all of your own and so I asked if you believe that what you read in that book is indeed all man to you.

I said over and over that I accept(trust) and obey the teachings of Jesus Christ which is what I believe the Word of God as recorded in that book is. Now, when you suggest that it is all man's doctrines to you, that is all you and not me.

Kobojunkie:

Please try to follow along!

Let's say there are 46 commandments in total. Now, these 46 commandments were given to you by the person of Jesus Christ, the Word of God Himself. And of the 46 commandments, none is a commandment instructing you to gather with other believers or fellowship with other believers. So, when you refuse to follow men in their "gathering unto God", do you do so in disobedience of any of the commandments given you by Jesus Christ? The obvious answer to that is NO!

Now, one of the 46 commandments given by Jesus Christ instructs you against adding or removing from His teachings/commandments. So when men take it upon themselves to suggest that Jesus Christ commands their many "gathering unto God", in an attempt to add their lie to the teachings of Jesus Christ, it is done in direct disobedience to the very teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ.

Now, since we are clear at this point that your gatherings are not commanded of you by Jesus Christ i.e. God. What you should ask is what your church leadership model and the lot have to do with God if none of what they do was commanded them of Jesus Christ/God Himself, and that question you ought to direct at your so-called church leaders.

Sin is disobedience. In the case of those who believe in Jesus Christ(the New Covenant), Sin involves rejecting/going against the teachings/commandments of Jesus Christ - His teachings define for us what sin is. And according to Jesus Christ's own teaching, the only way to overcome sin is to instead accept(trust) and obey His commandments. That is the only way to transition from being a slave to sin, to become instead a Child of God.

So, I am not sure why you feel your "gathering unto God" is of God when God Himself never said so. Rather than continuing to believe what you are told to by men through their many doctrines and tradition(lies), why not instead invest your time and effort into actually learning what Jesus Christ wants of you and putting that into action instead.

I can understand your position both not to gather in fellowship and also to focus strictly on the 4 gospels.

Going to churches especially in Nigeria, one can easily get discouraged at the way most pastors twist the bible to the own interest using the old testament and epistles of the apostles especially if you're one who is given to study yourself.

I've visited several churches in my search of the oneness of the body of Christ in the several denominations, Winners inclusive and I can tell you it is the same virtually everywhere.

But the bible does not speak against being part of gatherings, in fact observing the life of Christ, we can agree that he himself assembled in such gatherings. In fact his ministry involved preaching to large gatherings.
Even upon his resurrection he still commanded his disciples to assemble together in Galilee to wait for him.

We do not know much of his early life as this was not documented but his ministry did not even start until he had gathered disciples to himself.
The place of discipleship would be inadequate if such gatherings do not exist.

My advice is to pray for divine direction about a gathering that would be suitable for you.

Satan knows and fully understands the nature of man, he's well aware of our freewill so he wants each and everyone of us to either start his own PERSONAL religion or just as you said find a gathering that would be suitable for each person's heart desire! Luke 11:23 compare to Genesis 3:2-5
But God's children must be prepared to break away from the ways of life that's common to the world {1John 2:15-17} put of their old personality {Romans 6:6; Ephesians 4:22; Colossians 3:9} surely this is not going to be easy so each child of God must exact himself vigorously {Luke 13:24} after finding God's congregation then start learning how to put on the new personality! Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10
That's why Jehovah's Witnesses must congregate as one family {John 17:20-23} that's totally different from those who just want to maintain their heart desires {John 17:14 compare to Revelations 18:4} striving to stick together as one and encouraging one another to keep the new personality that we are putting on! Hebrews 10:24-25 compare to Revelations 7:13-14
May you have PEACE!

Myer:

My advice is to pray for divine direction about a gathering that would be suitable for you.

MaxInDHouse:
Satan knows and fully understands the nature of man, he's well aware of our freewill so he wants each and everyone of us to either start his own PERSONAL religion or just as you said find a gathering that would be suitable for each person's heart desire! Luke 11:23 compare to Genesis 3:2-5
But God's children must be prepared to break away from the ways of life that's common to the world {1John 2:15-17} put of their old personality {Romans 6:6; Ephesians 4:22; Colossians 3:9} surely this is not going to be easy so each child of God must exact himself vigorously {Luke 13:24} after finding God's congregation then start learning how to put on the new personality! Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10
That's why Jehovah's Witnesses must congregate as one family {John 17:20-23} that's totally different from those who just want to maintain their heart desires {John 17:14 compare to Revelations 18:4} striving to stick together as one and encouraging one another to keep the new personality that we are putting on! Hebrews 10:24-25 compare to Revelations 7:13-14
May you have PEACE!

I don't think JW would be suitable for him simply because your organization is just as guilty of the reason he has forsaken gatherings altogether. Having tried JW myself.
You not only twist the bible to suit your own meaning. Your organization even created it's own version of the bible where most of the parts that speak of the Holy spirit, Trinity etc and things your leaders don;t agree with have even been completely removed.

But then again, if he desires to find out for himself, it's his choice after all.

The bolded is Jesus' doing Sir that's why you can't find any group having LOVE JOY and PEACE permeating their Organization globally like JWs.
Jesus taught us to remove all the inserted verses that's not part of God's word, that's why it's working out fine fruit in our midst! Matthew 7:16-18

Myer:


I don't think JW would be suitable for him simply because your organization is just as guilty of the reason he has forsaken gatherings altogether. Having tried JW myself.
You not only twist the bible to suit your own meaning. Your organization even created it's own version of the bible where most of the parts that speak of the Holy spirit, Trinity etc and things your leaders don;t agree with have even been completely removed.

But then again, if he desires to find out for himself, it's his choice after all.

Myer:

I can understand your position both not to gather in fellowship and also to focus strictly on the 4 gospels.

Going to churches especially in Nigeria, one can easily get discouraged at the way most pastors twist the bible to the own interest using the old testament and epistles of the apostles especially if you're one who is given to study yourself.

I've visited several churches in my search of the oneness of the body of Christ in the several denominations, Winners inclusive and I can tell you it is the same virtually everywhere.

But the bible does not speak against being part of gatherings, in fact observing the life of Christ, we can agree that he himself assembled in such gatherings. In fact his ministry involved preaching to large gatherings.
Even upon his resurrection he still commanded his disciples to assemble together in Galilee to wait for him.

We do not know much of his early life as this was not documented but his ministry did not even start until he had gathered disciples to himself.
The place of discipleship would be inadequate if such gatherings do not exist.

My advice is to pray for divine direction about a gathering that would be suitable for you.

My position is based solely on the fact that Jesus Christ never did command the so called " gathering unto God" that Christians world-wide engage in on a regular basis. I will not create a yoke for myself where none is given me by my God.

Jesus Christ never called His own to gather, to themselves, disciples of their own, in His name.

Jesus Christ is the embodiment of the New Covenant - the yoke and burden everyone who chooses to follow Him will take upon themselves. He is the contract we are to sign when We agree to become His followers. For those who signs on instead to a contract modified by the doctrines and traditions of men, what Jesus Christ Himself declared are nothing but lies, the Word of God is nullified in their life and their worship of God rendered meaningless.

So rather than following what you are told of others or the traditions of men before you, it is essential, that for the sake of your own soul's eternal bliss that you learn what the Truth of God in fact is and follow it instead of the many lies of men.

As for divine direction, it was God Himself to led me to His truth when I made the decision to find God for my own self.
Of course, I went into your churches to find Him but God kept telling me He was not in there- He does not live in those man-made structures, nor does He, God, bow to the commandments of men, no matter how many millions of men live those lies.
At first, I did not believe what the voice kept insisting upon - I kept chucking it up to heartburn, my ego, and even a bloated sense of self maybe. But God kept insisting, directing my path as He will, leading me in directions that caused me to encounter His Truth, to eventually revealing why your churches have nothing to do with Him or that which He in fact commanded of you all.

Kobojunkie:
I never said any of that. You came up with that line of reasoning all of your own and so I asked if you believe that what you read in that book is indeed all man to you.

I said over and over that I accept(trust) and obey the teachings of Jesus Christ which is what I believe the Word of God as recorded in that book is. Now, when you suggest that it is all man's doctrines to you, that is all you and not me.

I pointed it out to you that the scriptures in your hand that you read, the very word of Jesus you read are documented by man. They are man's doctrine Sir. God used man to speak to you. Get that right. The commanded of Jesus you speak about, was it not given to you by man?

Secondly. You said you obey and trust Jesus commandment.

Is Mathew 28:19 not Jesus commandment again.

So,

1. Are you making disciples in obedience to His words?
2. How are you making disciples without gathering with such?

hoopernikao:

I pointed it out to you that the scriptures in your hand that you read, the very word of Jesus you read are documented by man. They are man's doctrine Sir. God used man to speak to you. Get that right. The commanded of Jesus you speak about, was it not given to you by man?

Secondly. You said you obey and trust Jesus commandment.

Is Mathew 28:19 not Jesus commandment again.

So,

1. Are you making disciples in obedience to His words?
2. How are you making disciples without gathering with such?

I am afraid you continue to confuse your beliefs for mine. You are the one here who believes that because the Word of God is written of the hands of men that implies it is nothing but the doctrines of men. I don't believe that!
So?

As for Matthew 28 vs 19. Jesus did instruct us to go into the world teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven to all. So, what of that part of that commandment means or suggests to you that thereJesus Christ commands your "gatherings unto God"?

Are my teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as taught to me by Jesus Christ Himself? Yes

How are my making disciples without gathering them? Wait a second... You think Jesus Christ sanctioned you to "gather" to yourself disciples of your own? Really?

When Jesus Christ previously sent His disciples out into the surrounding country, did He also tell them to "gather" unto themselves disciples of their own?

hoopernikao:


I pointed it out to you that the scriptures in your hand that you read, the very word of Jesus you read are documented by man. They are man's doctrine Sir. God used man to speak to you. Get that right. The commanded of Jesus you speak about, was it not given to you by man?

Secondly. You said you obey and trust Jesus commandment.

Is Mathew 28:19 not Jesus commandment again.

So,

1. Are you making disciples in obedience to His words?
2. How are you making disciples without gathering with such?

You're quite slow.

That men wrote down the words of Jesus makes them man's doctrines?
You're beginning to sound like one who simply argues for argument sake.

Even a babe in the faith knows the words of Jesus Christ scripturally can't be compared to the words of any of the old prophets or apostles. After all, no one has seen God at any point except Christ.

In your typical mode of blind arguments instead of just letting Kobojunkie see why other books are also important you've succeeded in calling the doctrines Christ taught simply no different from man's doctrines.

At this point, it is pointless to engage you any further. You simply argue off-point.

There is just one single veil Satan is using to blur the spiritual sight of misinformed Churchgoers:
Lack of wisdom!
Christianity replaced the old covenant and just as Israelites were proud of pure worship back then that's exactly how Christians should be proud that they have the truth! John 8:32, 14:6, 17:17, 18:37
So if you can't PRESENT a group of people who are practicing pure worship today then there is no way you can prove anything in the Bible because each person will continue quoting the scriptures to back whatever he/she wants but the secret is Satan's worshipers may also claim (thought) they're worshipers of the true God {2Corinthians 11:12-14} but they will never be ORGANIZED nor ORDERLY! Luke 11:23
So Christians must make disciples and unitedly worship together as ONE BODY, that's what Satan can never achieve because when he began he never told Adam and Eve that he wanted to become their god, rather he told them you will become gods on your own knowing good and evil (setting up your own personal standard) therefore each worshiper of Satan may be blindfolded and deceived that they're worshiping the true God but they can never agree for orderliness or organized as befitting God's people! 1Corinthians 14:33, 40

hoopernikao:

1. Are you making disciples in obedience to His words?
2. How are you making disciples without gathering with such?

Myer:


You're quite slow.

That men wrote down the words of Jesus makes them man's doctrines?
You're beginning to sound like one who simply argues for argument sake.

Even a babe in the faith knows the words of Jesus Christ scripturally can't be compared to the words of any of the old prophets or apostles. After all, no one has seen God at any point except Christ.

In your typical mode of blind arguments instead of just letting Kobojunkie see why other books are also important you've succeeded in calling the doctrines Christ taught simply no different from man's doctrines.

At this point, it is pointless to engage you any further. You simply argue off-point.

I am afraid you are still missing the core point here.

You can't make Kobojunkie adopt any teaching which does not comply with the teachings of Jesus Christ. You cannot accept(trust) and obey the teachings of Jesus Christ, at the same time accepting teachings that are against the teachings of Jesus Christ.
By doing that you render the very power of the Word of God thanks, and your worship God through Jesus Christ meaningless - this from the teachings or Jesus Christ Himself.

What you do when you try to insert your own head knowledge into the meaning you then apply to the very teachings of Jesus Christ was done by the Pharisees before you, and God was against them for it. What makes you think that after warning you against such, God no longer minds?

hoopernikao:


I pointed it out to you that the scriptures in your hand that you read, the very word of Jesus you read are documented by man. They are man's doctrine Sir. God used man to speak to you. Get that right. The commanded of Jesus you speak about, was it not given to you by man?

Secondly. You said you obey and trust Jesus commandment.

Is Mathew 28:19 not Jesus commandment again.

So,

1. Are you making disciples in obedience to His words?
2. How are you making disciples without gathering with such?

Bro you are very wrong here. Those who gather people to teach them the doctrines of men have no regard for Christ. We will assume that maybe you don't know the difference between doctrines of men and commandment of Christ.

Matthew 15:8-9
King James Version
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Commandments of men=doctrines of men.

The heart of such worshippers is focused on man made doctrines. That is why they rush to defend their church or pastor forgetting that it is Christ above all. They will stand against a Lazarus of today and throw away what Christ taught in Luke 16:19-31. In their heart, they feel they are doing the right thing but they are far from Christ.

If you must gather people you must not be selfish.

Boomark:


Bro you are very wrong here. Those who gather people to teach them the doctrines of men have no regard for Christ. We will assume that maybe you don't know the difference between doctrines of men and commandment of Christ.

Matthew 15:8-9
King James Version
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Commandments of men=doctrines of men.

The heart of such worshippers is focused on man made doctrines. That is why they rush to defend their church or pastor forgetting that it is Christ above all. They will stand against a Lazarus of today and throw away what Christ taught in Luke 16:19-31. In their heart, they feel they are doing the right thing but they are far from Christ.

If you must gather people you must not be selfish.

It will be good you read through my former discussion on this thread with Kobojunkie, with that you will get clarity on what and why i wrote that. There is no where here that we are speaking about selfishness or not. The discussion focused on whether the scriptures instructed a gathering of believers, whether the gathering of Christian is God's desire or not. Let us stay on the cause of discussion.

Should believers gather, this is the discussion.

Myer:


You're quite slow.

That men wrote down the words of Jesus makes them man's doctrines?
You're beginning to sound like one who simply argues for argument sake.

Even a babe in the faith knows the words of Jesus Christ scripturally can't be compared to the words of any of the old prophets or apostles. After all, no one has seen God at any point except Christ.

In your typical mode of blind arguments instead of just letting Kobojunkie see why other books are also important you've succeeded in calling the doctrines Christ taught simply no different from man's doctrines.

At this point, it is pointless to engage you any further. You simply argue off-point.

I thought your lack of not reading properly and in context is only affected from your study of the scriptures, i never knew, even normal conversation you cant read in context. I hope this is not how you read letters when they are written to you.

Dont be too fast to jump into a conclusion, read through thread, post that were made along the discussions.

Kobojunkie says only the word of Jesus in the bible is valid at least for NT, that other instructions there (NT) arent expect directly commanded by Jesus, He says that the practices in epistles arent valid because they are words of men but not of God. Does that sound as scriptures to you.

If Epistles are words of men as said by Kobojunkie, because they are spoken and written by men, the words of Jesus he is reading was it dropped from heaven. Was it not men's instrument that God used to give us the same scriptures?

You no dey read properly at all and i have told you its affecting you.

The inspired scriptures (by the Holyghost), was put down by men used of God to do the same. Selecting part and refusing others is denying the inspiration of books together. Men are used by the Holyghost, let that ring well in your ears.

2 Timothy 3:10 “But thou hast fully known my doctrine...

That is a man, hence his doctrine becomes a scripture because the inspiration behind those words was the Holyghost. Hence, men are the vessels.
Its only someone who lacks honor for what and who God used that will neglect men who wrote the scriptures and then he will spite the scriptures.

I hope you get this well now.

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid you continue to confuse your beliefs for mine. You are the one here who believes that because the Word of God is written of the hands of men that implies it is nothing but the doctrines of men. I don't believe that!
So?

As for Matthew 28 vs 19. Jesus did instruct us to go into the world teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven to all. So, what of that part of that commandment means or suggests to you that thereJesus Christ commands your "gatherings unto God"?

Are my teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as taught to me by Jesus Christ Himself? Yes

How are my making disciples without gathering them? Wait a second... You think Jesus Christ sanctioned you to "gather" to yourself disciples of your own? Really?

When Jesus Christ previously sent His disciples out into the surrounding country, did He also tell them to "gather" unto themselves disciples of their own?

I asked two simple questions, please provide answers. That will give direction to this discussion.
You didnt answer it above, please do now.

I state them again

Is Mathew 28:19 not Jesus commandment again.

So,

1. Are you making disciples in obedience to His words?
2. How are you making disciples without gathering with such?

This shouldn't be hard. Please answer.

hoopernikao:

I asked two simple questions, please provide answers. That will give direction to this discussion.
You didnt answer it above, please do now.

I state them again

Is Mathew 28:19 not Jesus commandment again.

So,

1. Are you making disciples in obedience to His words?
2. How are you making disciples without gathering with such?

This shouldn't be hard. Please answer.

Read my previous response. I already answered your questions.