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Why Give Birth? - Religion - Nairaland

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Why Give Birth? by Thugnificent(m): 1:22pm On Feb 28, 2018
I really don't see the logic of bringing children into this world when there is a probability of them going to hell and burning in fire for all eternity. so i ask again, Why give birth?
Re: Why Give Birth? by hopefulLandlord: 1:37pm On Feb 28, 2018
This is an amazing question that's been bouncing around my head for a while. Why give birth at all? not giving birth is never regarded as a sin in any Abrahamic religion (I stand to be corrected on that) while giving birth means your child stands a chance (no matter how slim your deluded self thinks it is) of ending up in hell

Christians don't believe in hell. Not really. If they did, they would all be childless.
If someone told me there was even a 5% or 10% chance any child I had would endure 50 years of unrelenting suffering with no cure and no relief, I would castrate myself. These people claim to believe that their god would torture people for eternity for not saying the correct magic words, and yet they produce children. Bullsheet. Deep down they know it's a lie.

I've also met many Christians that say children who die before attaining a particular age automatically goes to heaven AND these same Christians are always protesting against Abortion!
Let the contradiction there sink in......

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Re: Why Give Birth? by Seun(m): 2:28pm On Feb 28, 2018
Thugnificent:
I really don't see the logic of bringing children into this world when there is a probability of them going to hell and burning in fire for all eternity. so i ask again, Why give birth?
I guess they believe that if they train up the children in the way they should go, they will not depart from it, and thus, they'll end up in heaven.

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Re: Why Give Birth? by Gggg102(m): 2:28pm On Feb 28, 2018
also if there is no god and evolution is true,
it would mean the only reason we exist is so that we will continue to exist. so what's the pint?

why don't we just go into self extinction once and for all?
that's the only solution to all the earth's problem.

no more people to fall sick, go through the hardship of school and work. no more wars
no more worry about global warming no more poverty.

it makes perfect sense.

I came across a group 'vhmt' they advocate for self extinction. their idea seems fair.
Re: Why Give Birth? by Thugnificent(m): 2:57pm On Feb 28, 2018
hopefulLandlord:
This is an amazing question that's been bouncing around my head for a while. Why give birth at all? not giving birth is never regarded as a sin in any Abrahamic religion (I stand to be corrected on that) while giving birth means your child stands a chance (no matter how slim your deluded self thinks it is) of ending up in hell

Christians don't believe in hell. Not really. If they did, they would all be childless.
If someone told me there was even a 5% or 10% chance any child I had would endure 50 years of unrelenting suffering with no cure and no relief, I would castrate myself. These people claim to believe that their god would torture people for eternity for not saying the correct magic words, and yet they produce children. Bullsheet. Deep down they know it's a lie.

I've also met many Christians that say children who die before attaining a particular age automatically goes to heaven AND these same Christians are always protesting against Abortion!
Let the contradiction there sink in......
Makes sense. But I'm a Christian tho and i have uncountable number of questions about the religion.
Re: Why Give Birth? by Thugnificent(m): 2:59pm On Feb 28, 2018
Seun:

I guess they believe that if they train up the children in the way they should go, they will not depart from it, and thus, they'll end up in heaven.
But there's still a probability (no matter how small) of them ending up in hell.
Re: Why Give Birth? by Thugnificent(m): 3:03pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:
also if there is no god and evolution is true,
it would mean the only reason we exist is so that we will continue to exist. so what's the pint?

why don't we just go into self extinction once and for all?
that's the only solution to all the earth's problem.

no more people to fall sick, go through the hardship of school and work. no more wars
no more worry about global warming no more poverty.

it makes perfect sense.

I came across a group 'vhmt' they advocate for self extinction. their idea seems fair.
hmmm very deep.
Re: Why Give Birth? by Seun(m): 5:17pm On Feb 28, 2018
Thugnificent:
But there's still a probability (no matter how small) of them ending up in hell.
They think it might happen to other peoples' children, but not theirs. They trust that God, who said "be fruitful and multiply", will handle things.

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Re: Why Give Birth? by Uyi168: 5:47pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:
also if there is no god and evolution is true,
it would mean the only reason we exist is so that we will continue to exist. so what's the pint?

why don't we just go into self extinction once and for all?
that's the only solution to all the earth's problem.

no more people to fall sick, go through the hardship of school and work. no more wars
no more worry about global warming no more poverty.

it makes perfect sense.

I came across a group 'vhmt' they advocate for self extinction. their idea seems fair.
..the existence of god and evolution being true are nt mutually exclusive..
Re: Why Give Birth? by Uyi168: 5:50pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:
also if there is no god and evolution is true,
it would mean the only reason we exist is so that we will continue to exist. so what's the pint?

why don't we just go into self extinction once and for all?
that's the only solution to all the earth's problem.

no more people to fall sick, go through the hardship of school and work. no more wars
no more worry about global warming no more poverty.

it makes perfect sense.

I came across a group 'vhmt' they advocate for self extinction. their idea seems fair.
Re: Why Give Birth? by Gggg102(m): 6:05pm On Feb 28, 2018
Uyi168:
..the existence of god and evolution being true are nt mutually exclusive..

I know that


if there is no God we don't have a purpose
since most believers believe god gave us a purpose


evolution teaches that there is no purpose to existence other than existence.

if both were true then there is no purpose
Re: Why Give Birth? by vaxx: 8:53pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:




evolution teaches that there is no purpose to existence other than existence.

No, this is not true, evolution is strictly scientific position and not philosophical position.... the purpose of existence is a philosophical stand.evolution is not equivalent to atheism, so thinking it replaces God or otherwise rules out God’s involvement in the development of life is simply naturalism position and also not necessarily scientific....

3 Likes

Re: Why Give Birth? by hopefulLandlord: 9:01pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:


I know that


if there is no God we don't have a purpose
since most believers believe god gave us a purpose


evolution teaches that there is no purpose to existence other than existence.

if both were true then there is no purpose

I hate presuppositionalism

do you realise there are those that believes in god (by their definition) but says there's no god given purpose? Deists like UyiIredia for instance
Re: Why Give Birth? by Martinez19(m): 9:59pm On Feb 28, 2018
Gggg102:
also if there is no god and evolution is true,
it would mean the only reason we exist is so that we will continue to exist. so what's the pint?

why don't we just go into self extinction once and for all?
that's the only solution to all the earth's problem.

no more people to fall sick, go through the hardship of school and work. no more wars
no more worry about global warming no more poverty.

it makes perfect sense.

I came across a group 'vhmt' they advocate for self extinction. their idea seems fair.
comparing he'll to earthly human suffering?
Re: Why Give Birth? by Gggg102(m): 12:59am On Mar 01, 2018
hopefulLandlord:


I hate presuppositionalism

do you realise there are those that believes in god (by their definition) but says there's no god given purpose? Deists like UyiIredia for instance

if there is god but no purpose, existence would still be pointless

1 Like

Re: Why Give Birth? by Gggg102(m): 1:08am On Mar 01, 2018
Martinez19:
comparing he'll to earthly human suffering?


nope.

at least with god there is purpose to life.
you know you are here to try to make heaven if you believe in christian God.
failing and he'll is a risk, but still there is a purpose. the best way to help people is to not give birth to them so they don't face that risk.
this stance is only against pro creation. it is not really against existence. inexistence is only an effect.


but from the other perspective, life as a whole is pointless, so why bother.
Re: Why Give Birth? by hopefulLandlord: 3:28am On Mar 01, 2018
Gggg102:

if there is god but no purpose, existence would still be pointless
so? are you admitting a god's existence doesn't necessitate purpose or what?
Re: Why Give Birth? by Gggg102(m): 7:01am On Mar 01, 2018
hopefulLandlord:


so? are you admitting a god's existence doesn't necessitate purpose or what?


you said there are people who believe in god without purpose.
I am not aware of such people so I assumed you were right.

but still lack of purpose makes existence unnecessary
Re: Why Give Birth? by hopefulLandlord: 7:05am On Mar 01, 2018
Gggg102:



you said there are people who believe in god without purpose.
I am not aware of such people so I assumed you were right.

but still lack of purpose makes existence unnecessary

There are deists that believe there's a god with no deigned purpose for its creations

they say this god doesn't care how we live and doesn't interfere in our affairs

They're not rejecting the existence of a god but they're rejecting that it wants us to live in a particular way

So I'm just saying, in essence, that a god's existence doesn't automatically mean there's a purpose it has given to humans
Re: Why Give Birth? by Gggg102(m): 7:30am On Mar 01, 2018
hopefulLandlord:


There are deists that believe there's a god with no deigned purpose for its creations

they say this god doesn't care how we live and doesn't interfere in our affairs

They're not rejecting the existence of a god but they're rejecting that it wants us to live in a particular way

So I'm just saying, in essence, that a god's existence doesn't automatically mean there's a purpose it has given to humans


and I'm agreeing that god does not necessarily have a purpose for man.

still, such existence feels pointless so self extinction still makes sense.


what difference exist between a god who does not care about us and that which does not exist?

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Re: Why Give Birth? by hopefulLandlord: 7:43am On Mar 01, 2018
Gggg102:



and I'm agreeing that god does not necessarily have a purpose for man.

still, such existence feels pointless so self extinction still makes sense.


what difference exist between a god who does not care about us and that which does not exist?

TBH I don't know, which is why my position on a creator deity that doesn't care about us is that of middle ground
Re: Why Give Birth? by rekinomtla(m): 7:55am On Mar 01, 2018
Thugnificent:
I really don't see the logic of bringing children into this world when there is a probability of them going to hell and burning in fire for all eternity. so i ask again, Why give birth?

Because that possibility is based on the decisions that child makes in his/her life.

And there's no need to based the question as if it's a problem for religious people, the so-called logic of that question applies to the heathens as well, why are they giving birth when they know there's a possibility of their children getting raped, murdered or abducted by Boko Haram? Guess they believe rape and murder doesnt really happen.

1 Like

Re: Why Give Birth? by Gggg102(m): 8:02am On Mar 01, 2018
hopefulLandlord:


TBH I don't know, which is why my position on a creator deity that doesn't care about us is that of middle ground

to me apart from the fact that one exists and the other doesn't, there is no difference. so an atheistic principle can be applied to his case.
Re: Why Give Birth? by hopefulLandlord: 8:04am On Mar 01, 2018
Gggg102:


to me apart from the fact that one exists and the other doesn't, there is no difference. so an atheistic principle can be applied to his case.

TBH I Personally have no objection to this

I said this yesterday "At the very core of it, a deistic universe would be indistinguishable from an atheistic universe. I see no reason to favor one over the other."
Re: Why Give Birth? by Gggg102(m): 8:07am On Mar 01, 2018
hopefulLandlord:


TBH I Personally have no objection to this

I said this yesterday "At the very core of it, a deistic universe would be indistinguishable from an atheistic universe. I see no reason to favor one over the other."

exactly my thoughts also.
Re: Why Give Birth? by Thugnificent(m): 12:04pm On Mar 01, 2018
rekinomtla:


Because that possibility is based on the decisions that child makes in his/her life.

And there's no need to based the question as if it's a problem for religious people, the so-called logic of that question applies to the heathens as well, why are they giving birth when they know there's a possibility of their children getting raped, murdered or abducted by Boko Haram? Guess they believe rape and murder doesnt really happen.
Well, getting raped or murdered is infinitely better than burning in fire nonstop for even 24 hours!
Re: Why Give Birth? by Thugnificent(m): 12:15pm On Mar 01, 2018
Seun:

They think it might happen to other peoples' children, but not theirs. They trust that God, who said "be fruitful and multiply", will handle things.
Even heaven is not soo sure cos God might change his mind and decide to transfer heaven occupants into hell. Remember Lucifer and the fallen angels??
Re: Why Give Birth? by UyiIredia(m): 2:32pm On Mar 01, 2018
Gggg102:


if there is god but no purpose, existence would still be pointless

God made man and purpose but left man to make his own purpose. I don't think there is some purpose you ray to God to find, I think it's one's choice.
Re: Why Give Birth? by rekinomtla(m): 3:54pm On Mar 01, 2018
Thugnificent:
Well, getting raped or mothered is infinitely better than burning in fire nonstop for even 24 hours!

Better or worse doesn't change the fact that the question is illogical.
Re: Why Give Birth? by Gggg102(m): 6:38pm On Mar 01, 2018
UyiIredia:


God made man and purpose but left man to make his own purpose. I don't think there is some purpose you ray to God to find, I think it's one's choice.

in this case there is purpose so self extinction is not necessary.
Re: Why Give Birth? by shaybebaby(f): 7:02pm On Mar 01, 2018
Why give birth? To propagate the species I guess in line with evolution.

Perhaps a woman's perspective is required when we say we get broody. That feeling had nothing to do with logic, a very primal urge to nurture and love a new life that is us yet distinct from us.

The fact that it cannot be rationalised against the multitude of logical reasons not to tread that path reinforces the evolution argument. It requires no forward planning and is as natural as breathing, an unconscious reflex that maintains the status quo, or survival. It overrides logic.

Now you may wonder why I hold this view, I'll tell you. It stems from my experience of childbirth. You see, I was in fullblown Labor when my baby's heart beat dropped. There was panic in the room with midwives and doctors dashing around manically. Whilst all this was going on and I was in excruciating pain, I started pushing. Kinda like straining to have poo only this time, I was doing this and I had no control over it.

It was really weird because I was thinking (kinda like observing myself doing this and wondering "what are you doing". I could formulate the thought but could not influence the very action of pushing, it was like being in a vehicle (my body), very aware of what was happening but having no control, I could only watch, feel but not act.

That was nature doing its thing to expel the baby from my body, doing what my body had been programmed for over years of evolution. I had no control.

So I believe the same goes for the desire to have children, to propagate. Yes we are enlightened, knowledgeable about the mechanics and the world at large but that desire is primal, from days where we hadn't evolved to the beings we are today. Kinda like the fight or flight instinct.

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