Gggg102:

I know that

if there is no God we don't have a purpose since most believers believe god gave us a purpose

evolution teaches that there is no purpose to existence other than existence.
if both were true then there is no purpose

If God exists, what is the purpose of his existence?

I can summarize your long epistle on the Labour process and liken it to some reflexes such as the vomiting reflex, coughing reflex, point of no return reflex for men, etc... Nothing special. You have no control over those actions once triggered.

But you can't counter religious fanatics with that Labour logic by saying it strongly substantiates the evolution theory. Fanatics/Fundamentalists believe there is power in spoken words and can affect or change the course of virtually anything.

For christians, it's written in the book of Genesis where God laid a curse on the woman, and also the commandment to be fruitful and multiply. Those are driving factors...

Hhenryy:
I can summarize your long epistle on the Labour process and liken it to some reflexes such as the vomiting reflex, coughing reflex, point of no return reflex for men, etc... Nothing special. You have no control over those actions once triggered.

But you can't counter religious fanatics with that Labour logic by saying it strongly substantiates the evolution theory. Fanatics/Fundamentalists believe there is power in spoken words and can affect or change the course of virtually anything.
For christians, it's written in the book of Genesis where God laid a curse on the woman, and also the commandment to be fruitful and multiply. Those are driving factors...

@bolded,does that apply to animals as well cos they are fruitful and multiply?

What does "fruitful" mean exactly?

Secondly, the pain part of the "curse" is being bypassed with regularity today (epidural and Cs), so what that mean for that pronouncement?

shaybebaby:


@bolded,does that apply to animals as well cos they are fruitful and multiply?

What does "fruitful" mean exactly?

Secondly, the pain part of the "curse" is being bypassed with regularity today (epidural and Cs), so what that mean for that pronouncement?

Are you asking me what fruitful means? Let me just assume you are joking because any JSS std will answer that. Even a pri sch std will try

Let me address what you described as the main part of the curse.... Who told you it's being bypassed? Have you seen anyone that has gone through epidural or CS that didn't experience anyform of pain or discomfort? The curse is about pain in bringing forth young ones and has nothing to do with mode of delivery.

I can equally extend your use of "bypass" in this context to describe celibates... Since they have decided not to replicate or engage in anything sexual. Can we say they have bypassed the "..... be fruitful and multiply" commandent? But we all know they will have to battle the urge. And that's the effect of the word.

Hhenryy:


Are you asking me what fruitful means? Let me just assume you are joking because any JSS std will answer that. Even a pri sch std will try

Let me address what you described as the main part of the curse.... Who told you it's being bypassed? Have you seen anyone that has gone through epidural or CS that didn't experience anyform of pain or discomfort? The curse is about pain in bringing forth young ones and has nothing to do with mode of delivery.

I can equally extend your use of "bypass" in this context to describe celibates... Since they have decided not to replicate or engage in anything sexual. Can we say they have bypassed the "..... be fruitful and multiply" commandent? But we all know they will have to battle the urge. And that's the effect of the word.

1)you conveniently sidestepped why animals feel the same pain. Does the curse apply to them as well? (you'd have to reference the book where you got the original curse idea, I don't want a spin job) So please address that.

2) Nope, you can have a completely pain-free birth(pain in bringing forth, same thing as birth) . If you don't know how that works, ask and i'll oblige)

3) No they didn't bypass, they disregarded it in its entirety, lol. Totally badass!

4)indulge me, what does being fruitful mean and how does that differ from animals? If its the same, did they get the command?

If they didn't, how come they are still fruitful and multiplying?

shaybebaby:
Why give birth? To propagate the species I guess in line with evolution.

Perhaps a woman's perspective is required when we say we get broody. That feeling had nothing to do with logic, a very primal urge to nurture and love a new life that is us yet distinct from us.

The fact that it cannot be rationalised against the multitude of logical reasons not to tread that path reinforces the evolution argument. It requires no forward planning and is as natural as breathing, an unconscious reflex that maintains the status quo, or survival. It overrides logic.

Now you may wonder why I hold this view, I'll tell you. It stems from my experience of childbirth. You see, I was in fullblown Labor when my baby's heart beat dropped. There was panic in the room with midwives and doctors dashing around manically. Whilst all this was going on and I was in excruciating pain, I started pushing. Kinda like straining to have poo only this time, I was doing this and I had no control over it.

It was really weird because I was thinking (kinda like observing myself doing this and wondering "what are you doing". I could formulate the thought but could not influence the very action of pushing, it was like being in a vehicle (my body), very aware of what was happening but having no control, I could only watch, feel but not act.

That was nature doing its thing to expel the baby from my body, doing what my body had been programmed for over years of evolution. I had no control.

So I believe the same goes for the desire to have children, to propagate. Yes we are enlightened, knowledgeable about the mechanics and the world at large but that desire is primal, from days where we hadn't evolved to the beings we are today. Kinda like the fight or flight instinct.

This is the best response so far.
Man I do not believe rational human beings can write some of the things I am reading here, it seems religion shuts out the reasoning part of the brain.

We give birth not because of any God or heaven, but because we are wired to replicate our genes, that is the main purpose of life. ALL LIVING THINGS give birth, from viruses to whales to plants, it has nothing to do with heaven or hell.

Someone saying his purpose of living is to go to heaven means his life is purposeless. What are you going to do in heaven when enjoyment means different things to different people. What will someone that loves alcohol, sex and food enjoy in the Christian heaven( maybe the person should try the Muslim heaven).
The concept of heaven is found only in a few religions, ie Christianity and Islam, which got the concept from ancient Greek religion. Even Judaism dies not have the concept of heaven.

shaybebaby:

1)you conveniently sidestepped why animals feel the same pain. Does the curse apply to them as well? (you'd have to reference the book where you got the original curse idea, I don't want a spin job) So please address that.

who told you animals feel the same pain?
Humans have an especially laborious and intense birth process due to the relative size of the human head to the birth canal. Most animals do not have such a "tight fit", and although some species do indeed have a somewhat painful birth experience, most do not have nearly as hard a time of it as humans do.

You want me to reference the book? You must be kidding me, I felt like lambasting you for that @the bolden, but on a second thought, you might be a Muslim or probably a pagan! No Christian-turn Atheist will ask such a ridiculous question.

So suit your self, this is the curse............ in pain you shall bring forth children . (Gen 3:16) i extracted the underlined words, you can read the full text i have given you the ref. Take note of the word "pain" there is nothing referring to mode of childbirth on the whole passage.

2) Nope, you can have a completely pain-free birth(pain in bringing forth, same thing as birth) . If you don't know how that works, ask and i'll oblige)

What you read on paper! I have also read about the painless execution method employed by U.S inmate executioners. But after deep scrutiny, medical experts admitted that they can't say it's 100% painless since the individual is under heavy sedation. picking up signs of pain is almost impossible and sadly enough, the individual doesn't get the chance to come out alive and narrate his/her experience.

Same with your claim., deep scrutiny will reveal there is still some pains/discomfort felt. Stop regurgitating what you read in textbooks, there are many individuals who have undergone CS, take your time to ask how it felt.

3) No they didn't bypass, they disregarded it in its entirety, lol. Totally badass!

And they are also free from the effect(s) of the word right? I'm referring to the urge and all that........

4) indulge me, what does being fruitful mean and how does that differ from animals? If its the same, did they get the command?

If they didn't, how come they are still fruitful and multiplying?

I thought you were joking initially but it's no longer funny as you are now getting on my nerves by asking what fruitful means, I don't expect a primary school kid to disturb me with that silly question. One of the reasons why I hardly quote females.

Now to the question, here you come again with your funny logic, why hammering on Animals? What about other living things Like plants? Don't they multiply? God created every living thing with the ability to replicate and multiply. Read Gen 1:26-28.

wirinet:


This is the best response so far.
Man I do not believe rational human beings can write some of the things I am reading here, it seems religion shuts out the reasoning part of the brain.

We give birth not because of any God or heaven, but because we are wired to replicate our genes, that is the main purpose of life. ALL LIVING THINGS give birth, from viruses to whales to plants, it has nothing to do with heaven or hell.

Someone saying his purpose of living is to go to heaven means his life is purposeless. What are you going to do in heaven when enjoyment means different things to different people. What will someone that loves alcohol, sex and food enjoy in the Christian heaven( maybe the person should try the Muslim heaven).
The concept of heaven is found only in a few religions, ie Christianity and Islam, which got the concept from ancient Greek religion. Even Judaism dies not have the concept of heaven.

One of the reasons why religion has a foothold is because of that term "purpose".
Neonates are not born with any other purpose but the one which is common to all species like you mentioned-survival.

It's not to find out why it's here, who put it here and what happens to it if it makes it past the next minute. Case in point-put a new born on the mother and WATCH that bubba shuffle its way to boobas(that's what my son calls it, lol) to FEED! Because it knows it needs them melons to survive.

The universal purpose is to survive against all odds. But its an uncomfortable thought for many that there isn't a grand master plan, to make life any more worthwhile whilst we survive. It's up to each and everyone of us to find our own meaning in an otherwise indifferent world.

Hhenryy:


And who told you animals feel the same pain?
Humans have an especially laborious and intense birth process due to the relative size of the human head to the birth canal. Most animals do not have such a "tight fit", and although some species do indeed have a somewhat painful birth experience, most do not have nearly as hard a time of it as humans do.

So they feel pain, maybe not to the same extent, maybe to a greater extent in some but pain, some animals feel, yes?

Macaques for instance, note the how tight the fit is as well. It would be reasonable to conclude intense pain in the birth process, similar perhaps to homo from the pic.
So I'm in agreement however why do they have such a tight fit too, is it because of the curse?
International Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1471-0528.2002.00010.x/full

shaybebaby:

One of the reasons why religion has a foothold is because of that term "purpose".
Neonates are not born with any other purpose but the one which is common to all species like you mentioned-survival.

It's not to find out why it's here, who put it here and what happens to it if it makes it past the next minute. Case in point-put a new born on the mother and WATCH that bubba shuffle its way to boobas(that's what my son calls it, lol) to FEED! Because it knows it needs them melons to survive.

The universal purpose is to survive against all odds. But its an uncomfortable thought for many that there isn't a grand master plan, to make life any more worthwhile whilst we survive. It's up to each and everyone of us to find our own meaning in an otherwise indifferent world.

Solid gold.

Hhenryy:


who told you animals feel the same pain?
Humans have an especially laborious and intense birth process due to the relative size of the human head to the birth canal. Most animals do not have such a "tight fit", and although some species do indeed have a somewhat painful birth experience, most do not have nearly as hard a time of it as humans do.

And how do you measure the amount of pain all animals have during child birth? Do you have a pain meter or you can communicate with animals to ask them the degree of pain they experience during child birth. Note that there are some species of animals that die soon after giving birth.

You are just engaging in linguistic gymnastics to explain the in pain will you give birth "curse" in genesis. All animals experience some kind of pain giving birth, even those that simply lay egg feel pain. The bible did not even state that eve's pain would be the greatest, it simply states pain.

Hhenryy:


What you read on paper! I have also read about the painless execution method employed by U.S inmate executioners. But after deep scrutiny, medical experts admitted that they can't say it's 100% painless since the individual is under heavy sedation. picking up signs of pain is almost impossible and sadly enough, the individual doesn't get the chance to come out alive and narrate his/her experience.

Same with your claim., deep scrutiny will reveal there is still some pains/discomfort felt. Stop regurgitating what you read in textbooks, there are many individuals who have undergone CS, take your time to ask how it felt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfrV1G0vxgU
She looks like she is in pain, lol.

Hhenryy:
And they are also free from the effect(s) of the word right? I'm referring to the urge and all that........

Hhenryy:

funny as you are now getting on my nerves by asking what fruitful means, I don't expect a primary school kid to disturb me with that silly question. One of the reasons why I hardly quote females.

Couldn't give a rat's ass about your nerves

Hhenryy:

Now to the question, here you come again with your funny logic, why hammering on Animals? What about other living things Like plants? Don't they multiply? God created every living thing with the ability to replicate and multiply. Read Gen 1:26-28.

Sure they do but I wasn't aware they were commanded to in your book. Im aware of the man bit but unaware of the animal /plant angle of being ordered to do so.

Here is what you asked me to read

"26 Then God said, o“Let us make man8 in our image, pafter our likeness. And qlet them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27 So God created man in his own image,

in the image of God he created him;

rmale and female he created them.

28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, s“Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Still struggling to find how that tallies with your assertion.

Ps: don't give me your own spiel, you are not to add or detract from your book, if it ain't written down in it, don't be telling your angle on it.

It is written in the English language, any word I don't understand, I have a dictionary for so I don't need your spin. Just spit the verses.

wirinet:


And how do you measure the amount of pain all animals have during child birth? Do you have a pain meter or you can communicate with animals to ask them the degree of pain they experience during child birth. Note that there are some species of animals that die soon after giving birth.

You are just engaging in linguistic gymnastics to explain the in pain will you give birth "curse" in genesis. All animals experience some kind of pain giving birth, even those that simply lay egg feel pain. The bible did not even state that eve's pain would be the greatest, it simply states pain.

Looool, now man is arguing on degrees of pain.

Evangkatsoulis:


If God exists, what is the purpose of his existence?

I never thought of this.


...A difference between God and us is that he is eternal so he can't do anything but to exist. we have a choice to exist or not. but I don't think I can answer your question.

shaybebaby:

Buhaahahaha! And you couldn't put all your response in one single post just like i did? Why replying bit by bit? You went online to search for medical Articles and journals to read so that you can know what to say next

Would have labeled you a kid but you claimed to have given birth, let me respect that claim. I'm a very busy person and I don't have time for protracted rants and arguments on an anonymous online forum.
I may not dignify your next quote with a response again.

Hhenryy:


Buhaahahaha! And you couldn't put all your response in one single post just like i did? Why replying bit by bit? You went online to search for medical Articles and journals to read so that you can know what to say next

Everyone has his or her style. The madam likes going straight to the point - logical, precise and short. You on the other hand loves long illogical and irattional verbal gymnastics. The madam obviously knows what she is talking about, I suspect she is in the medical field. She went online to search for sites (youtube one at that ) to debunk your ignorance that it was not possible to give birth without feeling pain.

Would have labeled you a kid but you claimed to have given birth, let me respect that claim. I'm a very busy person and I don't have time for protracted rants and arguments on an anonymous online forum.
I may not dignify your next quote with a response again.

And you think you are older, more accomplished or busier than the madam? As you said this is an anonymous forum, just let's leave it at that.

Hhenryy:


Buhaahahaha! And you couldn't put all your response in one single post just like i did? Why replying bit by bit? You went online to search for medical Articles and journals to read so that you can know what to say next

Would have labeled you a kid but you claimed to have given birth, let me respect that claim. I'm a very busy person and I don't have time for protracted rants and arguments on an anonymous online forum.
I may not dignify your next quote with a response again.

Pussy!

shaybebaby:

Pussy!

Sheybebaby, I was browsing through your posts. What happened to your "online purchasing and shipping from UK" business you started about 6 years ago? Are you still helping people ship goods from UK to Nigeria?

wirinet:


Sheybebaby, I was browsing through your posts. What happened to your "online purchasing and shipping from UK" business you started about 6 years ago? Are you still helping people ship goods from UK to Nigeria?

Never really got it moving. People were slow on the uptake and I guess a bit lazy as well with a bit of mistrust thrown into the mix.

But yeah, I'm still good if peeps are proactive from their end as well. At loose ends again for the next few months so why not?

Lalasticlala

Thugnificent:
I really don't see the logic of bringing children into this world when there is a probability of them going to hell and burning in fire for all eternity. so i ask again, Why give birth?

What make you think that they would go to hell when God has secured our salvation through Christ.

You have a lot to learn about what Christ did on the cross.

Seun:

They think it might happen to other peoples' children, but not theirs. They trust that God, who said "be fruitful and multiply", will handle things.

Hi Seun, there is something I need to run by you. Thank you