darkchild64:

As defined by the dictionary
In religion a soul is the spirit or essence of an individual that comprises of the person's thought and personality

Well, I am inclined to believe that souls exist because of the existence of the supernatural realm.
I have witnessed quite a number of strange phenomena; ranging from conjuration to alleged spiritual possessions, I have heard first hand stories of phantoms of dead people roaming around and even migrating to live in other places(though I haven't personally witnessed any,and frankly, I do not want to, but when you hear a thing from more than 10 witnesses, you begin to accept the possibility of the stories being true).






There have been cases of people claiming to remember flashes of past events, which they had never witnessed before or weren't even born yet at the time the events took place.


Perhaps, all humans have an alternate transcient form which is immortal. Its probably a parapsychological phenomenon.

Butterflyleo:


Your topic as an atheist and the basis for this thread as an atheist is illogical and silly.

Its like a blind man seeking evidence for a planet called fahjero from a scientist. How can the blind man comprehend anything he is told or even shown.

Do animals have souls ?

EVarn:
Well, I am inclined to believe that souls exist because of the existence of the supernatural realm.
I have witnessed quite a number of strange phenomena; ranging from conjuration to alleged spiritual possessions, I have heard first hand stories of phantoms of dead people roaming around and even migrating to live in other places(though I haven't personally witnessed any,and frankly, I do not want to, but when you hear a thing from more than 10 witnesses, you begin to accept the possibility of the stories being true).






There have been cases of people claiming to remember flashes of past events, which they had never witnessed before or weren't even born yet at the time the events took place.


Perhaps, all humans have an alternate transcient form which is immortal. Its probably a parapsychological phenomenon.

Fine
Is this the evidence you have to prove that soul exists ?

darkchild64:

Fine
Is this the evidence you have to prove that soul exists ?

His evidence does not subscribe to your worldview. You cannot use your worldview to disprove his evidence because he does nor subscribe to your worldview.

Both of you are polar opposites. You can only speak for yourself and not for someone else whose worldview negates yours.

How hard is that for you to understand.

YOU ARE AN ATHEIST and atheists do not subscribe to the spiritual. Even you said on another thread just this morning and I quote;

darkchild64:

When would that time be,after death,you make me laugh
Dude I don't believe in your heaven and hell it doesn't scare me
Asking for evidence of the existence of soul does that mean I believe it exist
Mtchewwwww

This confirms all i have been saying.
You just successfully ended your own thread with this comment you made this morning on another thread. Why open a thread whose purpose you have confessed openly not to believe in its existence? Is that not the height of illogicality? Why would your mind dwell on what is alien to it? Why would your mind seek for what it does not want by default as an atheist?

If you cannot see your ridiculousness and illogicality by now then your case is a special one.

darkchild64:

Fine
Is this the evidence you have to prove that soul exists ?

Yes, I may be wrong though.

EVarn:
Yes, I may be wrong though.

Well those stuff you talked about may not even be real at the first place,but I'm not making any conclusions,what would prove whether they are area or not is the evidence presented,if you say a person was possessed by a spirit,how do you prove it,was there anything that person did that another "normal" human couldn't do like levitating to prove that s/he has a connectiom with extraordinary power,because you can't just say that someone is possessed by a Spirit, there must be some sought of evidence to support your claim
Now to people who died reincarnating and all that kind of stuff,again evidence is required, it is good you admit that you have not witnessed any so we dismiss that till you have a strong claim
Even if we agree with you that your "evidence" is good enough and souls exist, what next,what are these souls like,are they immortal,are they good,are they evil,do they ever get hungry,do they have sex,do animals and plants have souls too,there are a million questions one can ask so at the end of the day what we accept as fact is based on the evidence we see

darkchild64:

Well those stuff you talked about may not even be real at the first place,but I'm not making any conclusions,what would prove whether they are area or not is the evidence presented,if you say a person was possessed by a spirit,how do you prove it,was there anything that person did that another "normal" human couldn't do like levitating to prove that s/he has a connectiom with extraordinary power,because you can't just say that someone is possessed by a Spirit, there must be some sought of evidence to support your claim

You obviously watch too many horror movies. You forget you are talking about a spirit. How can one present a human based evidence FOR A SPIRIT? What hot tripe are you even asking for?

Now to people who died reincarnating and all that kind of stuff,again evidence is required, it is good you admit that you have not witnessed any so we dismiss that till you have a strong claim
Even if we agree with you that your "evidence" is good enough and souls exist, what next,what are these souls like,are they immortal,are they good,are they evil,do they ever get hungry,do they have sex,do animals and plants have souls too,there are a million questions one can ask so at the end of the day what we accept as fact is based on the evidence we see

How would you understand the concept of immortality when you do not subscribe to the worldview of the soul. For you to specifically talk about immortality to spirits and not to humans this shows you feel that spirits harbour immortality? Why? Why? Why?

Why not consider humans as the ones who harbour immortality since your worldview is rooted to human facts and evidence. Talking about having sex and eating and hunger for spirits without even knowing how spirits are and what they look like yet making it sound like they have a digestive system or a libido problem or a hunger alertness is just plain silly.

Nobody with half an empirical mind would put the cart before the horse like you just did here. Smh.

Your thread keeps getting even sillier with every post you make.

Out of scope, out of your league.


Although I find the conventional concepts rather funny. Just say it's in the brains. And survives only with the life force, God Force or whatever.

Why don't you go read Otemanuduno's Doctufos, it has an idea albeit the most correct I've seen so far, maybe there's more out there, or maybe not.

But com'on, this is something you experience, and I tell you this, if the nodes in your brain that would make you see this has been rendered dormant or ignored for too long, it'll all sound cray cray and it's nothing serious as long as you can live without worrying about it, no side effects whatsoever.

And the God Force won't drive you to experience it in your present reality.

darkchild64:

As defined by the dictionary
In religion a soul is the spirit or essence of an individual that comprises of the person's thought and personality

If this is what you'd define as a soul, I believe that it exists.
The phenomenon may not be well understood at the moment and hence might be slightly misrepresented with a religious/spiritual term by early thinkers.
That not withstanding, I believe there to be an immaterial essence which is as a result of our cumulative experiences and consciousness over years. Whether this essence can exist independently of the human brain and biological system is unclear to me.

Darkchild64,

Next time, it would be better if you compose your post and it's title in such a way that stimulates enlightening intellectual discourse and not just hateful debates.

DeSepiero:
Darkchild64,

Next time, it would be better if you compose your post and it's title in such a way that stimulates enlightening intellectual discourse and not just hateful debates.

How do you mean

A group of people believe that something exist another group doesn't, I acting as a middleman wants to find out why those who believe do,which other intellectual construct are you referring to,if you interpret my post as stimulating hateful debates then I think you should look at it again

p.s the problem is butterflyleo,besides him who else is being childish in this thread ?

DeSepiero:


If this is what you'd define as a soul, I believe that it exists.
The phenomenon may not be well understood at the moment and hence might be slightly misrepresented with a religious/spiritual term by early thinkers.
That not withstanding, I believe there to be an immaterial essence which is as a result of our cumulative experiences and consciousness over years. Whether this essence can exist independently of the human brain and biological system is unclear to me.

It is good that you expressed your belief the way you did but I must say your opinion is subjective until you provide good reasons for it.
Look at it this way,let's assume I believe that "soul" exists but in order to find out what the soul really is I am looking for people's point of views and reasons for holding such view,from which I would draw my conclusion,in others words I am not berating anyone's opinion,all I'm asking is
why do you believe that a soul exists ?

darkchild64:

As defined by the dictionary
In religion a soul is the spirit or essence of an individual that comprises of the person's thought and personality

My stance is that the Soul exists but we are yet to come to a full understanding of the essence of a soul. This notwithstanding I do not see an overriding imperative for a Soul as described in religious and mystical orders. In my view we cannot separate our understanding of the soul from our awareness, it follows that our living cells recreate past patterns through molecular memory which is passed on from one cell to another in order that a new one can reproduce the behaviour of its parents. At one level we could say that our awareness, the sum total of all our molecular memory is essentially a biological event comprises our soul.

Others have pointed out that living things have their own electromagnetic fields, we know that changes in our electromagnetic field are not random but connected with basic biological events and that this magnetic field has an organising ability, a kind of template that lays down our form and functions. We also establish that changes in this electromagnetic field follows a cosmic rhythm and that the electromagnetic field can persist death.

But it does not end there, if we define the physical body in terms of energy as above, it is also true to say that our cognisance of our “awareness” ergo the “soul” is dependent on energy, when we are unconscious, we are unawares therefore our awareness and mind is experience. We determine that consciousness exists and that our consciousness has evolved a number of times through the evolutionary process.

We have become aware of ourselves, of our lives, and of the fact that we must die. In the search for our soul we have opened a door on imagination and discovered anxiety, with consciousness comes guilt in the form of religion and a mental barrier behind which we hide things away from ourselves.

We cannot fully understand the import of the soul without a full grasp of the fourth dimension Space-time continuum, the fact that space cannot be separated from time. The mathematics of the space-time continuum is exceedingly complex and there's no need to go into it, but if we consider that space is everywhere at once then the possibility exists that it is the same for Time and that the present, the future and the past are one and the same.

It is under those conditions that the implications of a soul becomes much clearer.

CuteMadridista:
OP souls are like Yahweh, IPU, Bigfoot etc

they're all made-up bullsheet

U probably don't have one

[quote author=darkchild64 post=66240922]Considering that human beings are quite deceitful and of course there are various opinions about almost everything on earth,before I accept anything as a "fact" enough evidence or proof must be available depending on how sensitive the issue is.
Now talking about the existence of souls,there are many opinions to it,most agnostics and atheists don't believe such exists,religious adherents do,however the onus is on those who believe to provide evidence to what they claim. Chriatians and Muslims believe humans have "souls" Hindu's, Buddhists,Jainists and some other religions extend it to animals and even plants. Now I would like to highlight the importance of the concept of "soul" existence, of course Christians don't believe that animals and plants go to heaven or hell likewise Muslims despite the fact that they are living things,so basically what differentiates humans from lower animals and plants in terms of our fate after death is the "soul" considering the fact that we die and decay just like other living things,but then what if we don't have any such thing as souls it means that we die and decay just like animals and plants,but then if we have souls we continue to exist in another realm.So for those who believe that humans have souls what proof(s) can you give to convince others who don't or is it just that you believe because that was what you were told?[/quote) Goan and read the Bible dear...u will find the answers to ur questions. There is no need putting up argument with you cos i know u've made up ur mind on what to believe.

CuteMadridista:


You should've observed I never quote nor mention him except by mistake while he tries hard day and night to make me start quoting him. He keeps quoting and mentioning me not bcuz he has something sensible to say but rather trying to get my attention

When he has nothing sensible to say he runs to the realm of illogic by shouting spiritual. The spiritual that is based purely on fiction and make belief.

Butterflyleo:


I asked a question which needs a simple answer so i repeat



I am waiting

Animists claim that rivers, mountains and even tress have souls. Do you believe that to be true?

Sarassin:


My stance is that the Soul exists but we are yet to come to a full understanding of the essence of a soul. This notwithstanding I do not see an overriding imperative for a Soul as described in religious and mystical orders. In my view we cannot separate our understanding of the soul from our awareness, it follows that our living cells recreate past patterns through molecular memory which is passed on from one cell to another in order that a new one can reproduce the behaviour of its parents. At one level we could say that our awareness, the sum total of all our molecular memory is essentially a biological event comprises our soul.

Others have pointed out that living things have their own electromagnetic fields, we know that changes in our electromagnetic field are not random but connected with basic biological events and that this magnetic field has an organising ability, a kind of template that lays down our form and functions. We also establish that changes in this electromagnetic field follows a cosmic rhythm and that the electromagnetic field can persist death.

But it does not end there, if we define the physical body in terms of energy as above, it is also true to say that our cognisance of our “awareness” ergo the “soul” is dependent on energy, when we are unconscious, we are unawares therefore our awareness and mind is experience. We determine that consciousness exists and that our consciousness has evolved a number of times through the evolutionary process.

We have become aware of ourselves, of our lives, and of the fact that we must die. In the search for our soul we have opened a door on imagination and discovered anxiety, with consciousness comes guilt in the form of religion and a mental barrier behind which we hide things away from ourselves.

We cannot fully understand the import of the soul without a full grasp of the fourth dimension Space-time continuum, the fact that space cannot be separated from time. The mathematics of the space-time continuum is exceedingly complex and there's no need to go into it, but if we consider that space is everywhere at once then the possibility exists that it is the same for Time and that the present, the future and the past are one and the same.

It is under those conditions that the implications of a soul becomes much clearer.

I commend your write up but once again I must say it is subjective, while I'm not saying that you are wrong or right I'm simply looking for proof to the existence of the "soul",how can we really study about the soul and know what it really is,is it just present in humans,is it also present in animals and even plant ?

To be honest, darkchild64 has presented a logical platform for a healthy debate.
Its only fair that proponents of the Soul 'theory' substantiate their beliefs.

Dalamama:




When he has nothing sensible to say he runs to the realm of illogic by shouting spiritual. The spiritual that is based purely on fiction and make belief.

apparently, anything and everything goes in the spiritual world. no rule governs that realm so they throw the card whenever they can't possibly backup their claim or arguments and tell you that you can't understand cuz you are not spiritual

However history has NEVER been in favour of spiritual claims as spiritual claims have been falsified throughout history, they're are still being falsified as we speak and they would continue to be falsified as our knowledge increases so proponents of spiritual claims should forgive me for siding with history especially empirically testable and reproducible history

Goodyshoes:
To be honest, darkchild64 has presented a logical platform for a healthy debate.
Its only fair that proponents of the Soul 'theory' substantiate their beliefs.

The op will not understand any amount of logical explanation presented forward if he does not follow his line of reasoning, he is very close minded and most of the atheist here too. anyway i will try and do justice to the question, i pass it by yesterday.

the op is looking at it from materialistic point of view, even if we are going to go by the op logic , he should understand that almost every object be it seen and the one that are not normally visible to the eyes like air and magnetic wave can be divided. However the ̓ I ̓ within every person cannot be divided and so it must be immaterial. for example if a person loses one of his limbs, he still says "I am studying" and "I am reading a poem" and never says" three-quarters of me is studying" or" "three-quarters of me is reading poem". No person can divide his personality and nature into different parts, but all material beings are dividable in some manner. Therefore the personality and nature of a person,which means your soul is your personality, so your essence is you as a person and this soul(personality) cannot be material.

now that the logic side of it had been trashed down, lets look at the scientific part, A very famous British physicist Roger Penrose put forward a vision of a universe, he acclaimed that the universe is composed of three independently existing worlds which is the mathematics, the material world and human consciousness. As Penrose acknowledged, it was a complete puzzle to him how the three interacted with one another outside the ability of any scientific or other conventionally rational model.

How can physical atoms and molecules, for example, create something that exists in a separate domain that has no physical existence: human consciousness?

It is a mystery that lies beyond science.so when it comes to human consciousness , the basis of the soul concept, science is still in juvenile stage. however, the very little scientific information available seems to support soul existence.

well,so far no one has come up with any evidence be it physical or spiritual, all these people saying that I won't understand spiritual things I perceive that is an excuse you are using because you have no proof to your claim

Provide evidence be it material or immaterial, that is all I'm asking for,not unnecessary logic

I missed Billyonaire

Butterflyleo:


Shut up your mouth. Your asking for proof already shows you disbelieve based on your crippled and limited senses position.

So how can you use your human limited senses to disprove a spiritual essence such as a soul?

You ain't smart by half.

The thread can never receive evidence because you are unable to perceive the evidence. These are a few things we cannot perceive as people but they exist. Even science cannot perceive them but can establish their effects


1. RADIO WAVES

2. DARK MATTER

3. ANTIMATTER

4. THE MIND

5. EMOTIONS

6. QUANTUM PARTICLES

Same with the soul. If you want to observe it's effect wait till you die and (if) you return, you can lecture us on the fact that it does not exist. But until then you cannot disprove the existence of a soul using your human perception. Stop being silly and grow some intelligence.

Soul does not exist,

we only have mind

well,so far no one has come up with any evidence be it physical or spiritual, all these people saying that I won't understand spiritual things I perceive that is an excuse you are using because you have no proof to your claim

Provide evidence be it material or immaterial, that is all I'm asking for,not unnecessary logic

To Nobody!

The nobodies are nobody that don't have names.

They had a name and then they fell
obliterated a la faux pas.

So nobody has no soul.

If nobody had a soul nobody would still be here.

Proof!

As defined by the dictionary
In religion a soul is the spirit or essence of an individual that comprises of the person's thought and personality

The soul is the functions the mind, will and emotions

I'm a Christian, my Bible tells me that the soul is a separate entity from the spirit. When God created man, He made man a spiritual being like He is. When God breath into the earth suite i.e when the spirit came into the body, man became a living soul - the soul is produced when the spirit comes into the body . This means when man's spirit was active as created by God before the fall, man's soul (mind, volition and emotions) was subject to the spirit only. Of course the spirit is the only medium through which God's Spirit can communicate with man. Because of the fall of man, God's Spirit left man so that man's soul could only be controlled by his body. Thus humanity has since then thought the soul and spirit are the same.

God in His infinite mercy has made a way for man's redemption through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, anyone who believes in Him will have his spirit regenerated and be able to relate with his Creator. Additionally, God's uncreated life will be in that man through His Holy Spirit so that such a man will know who he really is, why he's here on this earth and his eternal destiny after this earthly life.

UceeGod:


The soul is the functions the mind, will and emotions

I'm a Christian, my Bible tells me that the soul is a separate entity from the spirit. When God created man, He made man a spiritual being like He is. When God breath into the earth suite i.e when the spirit came into the body, man became a living soul - the soul is produced when the spirit comes into the body . This means when man's spirit was active as created by God before the fall, man's soul (mind, volition and emotions) was subject to the spirit only. Of course the spirit is the only medium through which God's Spirit can communicate with man. Because of the fall of man, God's Spirit left man so that man's soul could only be controlled by his body. Thus humanity has since then thought the soul and spirit are the same.

God in His infinite mercy has made a way for man's redemption through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, anyone who believes in Him will have his spirit regenerated and be able to relate with his Creator. Additionally, God's uncreated life will be in that man through His Holy Spirit so that such a man will know who he really is, why he's here on this earth and his eternal destiny after this earthly life.

I bear witness that your 'Bible' is truth!