For Trinity Sunday - Religion - Nairaland
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Another Case For Trinity. / Proof For Trinity?? / Dilemma : Is GOD a Trinity (2) (3) (4)
| For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 2:10pm On May 30, 2010 |
Blessed be God Almighty Three in One, One in Three Co-equal, Consubstantial, Co-eternal
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| Re: For Trinity Sunday by nuclearboy(m): 3:14pm On May 30, 2010 |
baiting DeepSight, ehn?  how's my son-in-law doing? |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by jesus3: 4:25pm On May 30, 2010 |
nuclearboy:enigmalet i guess |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by petres007(m): 4:40pm On May 30, 2010 |
nuclearboy:  |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by KunleOshob(m): 5:09pm On May 30, 2010 |
Much as I dis-like debating this "trinity" topic, I believe it is blasphemous to describe Jesus as co-equal with God. Jesus himself makes it crystal clear in the bible that the Father is greater than he is and he is subject to the will of the Father who sent him. As christians we should learn to stick to undiluted scriptures and not force our biases into it. Much as I love Jesus, worship and adore him, I would never equate him to God the father almighty who is the father and God of our saviour Jesus christ. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 6:52pm On May 30, 2010 |
nuclearboy: Ah ha; he's doing well; we are trying to raise the funds for bringing our 42-42 when the time is due jesus.: Indeed  KunleOshob: Kunle This is one issue on which you are mistaken --- unfortunately. If you study the Scripture in the round carefully, seeing that God is Three in One and One in Three is basically inevitable.  |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 6:56pm On May 30, 2010 |
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/t/h/3oneone3.htm
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| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 7:03pm On May 30, 2010 |
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/h/o/holyholy.htm Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty! |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by KunleOshob(m): 7:09pm On May 30, 2010 |
^^^ I have studied the scriptures and yet to see one single clear cut scripture that supports the allegation of Jesus being equal to God the father, on the contrary there are tonnes of scriptures which makes it clear that God the father is superior and a totally different entity from Jesus even though scripture makes it clear that Jesus is identical to God his father. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by DeepSight(m): 7:25pm On May 30, 2010 |
Enigma: Stranger to the blue world, circling the red star, the visitor, tired from the tour, the magnifence of the history of the bold and mighty beings, would never have guessed with what puerile stench they were wont to attach themselves to hallucinatory inanities. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 7:26pm On May 30, 2010 |
KunleOshob: OK; however debate is for another day. Today (Trinity Sunday) I just want to celebrate the Trinity! http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/f/i/firmlyib.htm Firmly I believe and truly |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by DeepSight(m): 7:34pm On May 30, 2010 |
^^^ Nor would he have guessed with what stupenduous docility they were willing to be led, a pack of thoughtless sheep, led into the misty sea of foreign superstitution. . . No originality to SCREAM, My LIGHT, my LORD. . . no culture to know the unk of their own. . . But to scream and scream. . . In the night. . . the hollowness and falshood of the empty foreign dogma that ruled their empty minds. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 8:55pm On May 30, 2010 |
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/c/y/cyfranth.htm Come, ye faithful, raise the anthem, |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by nuclearboy(m): 9:04pm On May 30, 2010 |
This is the one issue I have tried over and over to put across to Kunle. Lets see again @Kunle: Imagine God telephoning you. You hear the voice but are not conversant with the face behind the voice. Then imagine Him coming to your level as a man (which because you are human has to allow you "understand" . Then imagine Him sending you a user-manual. The voice is the Father whom you can only imagine but cannot fully conceive. The human is a physical representation but cannot show ALL the Glory and Power and Might FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY AND because there was another more cogent reason for Him showing than behaving like our MOGs of today who show to "impress". The user manual is the Holy Spirit. Where you have a problem is in accepting Jesus saying "the Father is Greater" and indeed, IN THE FORM THAT HE WAS at that instant, the Father (being inconceivable) was greater than a dude everyone was looking at. But you forget that He DROPPED the Human clothing and returned to the Fullness of His Glory. At that point, co-equality again became status quo. If He had not dropped the "Glory" and became "less", would any of us be calling on Him today? Think it through, brother! |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 9:16pm On May 30, 2010 |
^^^ Amen |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 10:10am On May 31, 2010 |
@ Kunle Your position is one side of two broad types of arguments against the Trinity ---- from the perspective of Christians. I mean that in broad terms Christians who do not accept the Trinity doctrine can be divided into two categories. Category 1: those who say that Jesus is less than the Father; this is the category of your line of argument. Category 2: those who say that there is one God; and that that one God is Jesus Himself; in other words they say that Jesus Himself is ALSO God the Father; they say that the one God simply shows Himself in different ways e.g. as Spirit in the form of the Holy Spirit and in physical form as Jesus. This people for example will not do baptism "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" --- because of course they do not believe in the Trinity. They will only do baptism in the name of Jesus ---- because, to them, Jesus is the ONE GOD! This argument in Category 2 is particularly associated with a group known as Oneness Pentecostals aka Jesus Only You will notice that I went on more about Category 2, whereas you belong to Category 1; I of course belong to neither as I am Trinitarian. The reason I went on about 2 at length is that before we go on further about the Trinitarian doctrine itself, I want you to confront the following two questions. 1. Is Jesus God? 2. What does it mean to say Jesus is God? |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by KunleOshob(m): 10:54am On May 31, 2010 |
The bible makes it clear that Jesus is the son of God, that then makes him a God as well. Jesus never claimed equality with the father, I think it is wrong for us as christians to force our opinion into scriptures. @nuclearboy Your allegory is contrary to sound scripture and there is no biblical basis for it. We can as well claim to be gods like those deluded WOFers since the bible says we were created in God's image and likeness. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 11:04am On May 31, 2010 |
KunleOshob: Can you explain this further as I'm not sure I get you clearly. Are you saying that Jesus is God? If you are saying Jesus is God, then what does it mean to say "Jesus is God"? How is He then "God"? |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by KunleOshob(m): 11:35am On May 31, 2010 |
@enigma I think the mistake you are making is that you assume only one God exists like other trinitarians you then panel beat scriptures to justify calling Jesus "God almighty" by coming up with the extra biblical three in one concept. The bible acknowledges the existence of other gods but only the almighty creator God is worthy of worship. Quick question, what is your definition of God? Also what is your definition of gods? |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 11:41am On May 31, 2010 |
KunleOshob: Going by your post, following questions arise: 1. Are you distinguishing between God and god (or a god)? 2. How many Gods (capital G in God) are there? 3. Is there more than one God (capital G)? {this is question 2 in a different way} 4. How many gods (small g) are there? 5. Is Jesus God (capital G), or god (small g) or simply a god? |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by KunleOshob(m): 11:49am On May 31, 2010 |
There is only one God almighty who is the creator God. There are several other super natural beings who were termed god in and outside the bible. The capital G to delienate the creator God is done to show he is superior to the lesser gods, I use capital G to describe Jesus as a God also to express his superiority to the lesser gods, that however does not make him equal to God the father. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 12:14pm On May 31, 2010 |
KunleOshob: You see kunle, in your posts this morning, you have been accusing me of reading into the Bible when I had not so far even tried to quote/interprete scripture at all. Yet what have you been doing with your last two posts other than reading into the Bible? Consider these: 1. Does the Bible create a category in between "god" and "God" --- and on what basis do you place Jesus into a category between "god" and "God". 2. What does it mean to say that Jesus is "God" (capital G)? {I ask this specific question again, quite deliberately} |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by petres007(m): 12:56pm On May 31, 2010 |
My big broses . . . if I may contribute my own two cents to the matter at hand. . .KunleOshob: 9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, Isaiah 46 8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any." Isaiah 44 |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by nuclearboy(m): 1:52pm On May 31, 2010 |
See what these deluded WOFers are causing? Now even KunleOshob is comparing Jesus to Joagbaje. Abi when you say Jesus is a god because He is a son of God and that makes Him God YET you separate Him from the "father", what say you to their concept that we are "gods" being "sons of God with Christ being the first-born". This argument shoots yourself in the foot cos basically what you have just said is that Jesus is ONLY God because He is a son. But you and Joagbaje are also "sons" therefore you are gods and therefore "God" following your line of reasoning. Not so?Have you considered this import of your statement? For today, you show yourself a WOFer with your argument and our resident pastor must now be thinking all he needs is to get you to accept tithing too (maybe you'll be CE treasurer).What we say on the other hand is that Jesus, the Father and the HS are co-equal. And I believe it was Jesus who spoke to Moses and showed him His similitude on the mount. To come down into our midst for the purpose of redemption however, He of neccessity SET ASIDE THE GLORY and came down in a "limited" form. Jesus, WHEN HE WAS SPEAKING THEN, agreed that IN HIS LIMITED STATE, the unlimited Father was greater. Let me compare this to the time when He spoke of the Pharisees and said they tithe mint and cumin leaving aside the weightier matters. Then He said "these they ought to have done without leaving aside the other (i.e. tithes)." YET YOU, Kunle, understand that at that time, Jesus had not yet been crucified and nailed to the cross the ordinances of the law. So you won't accept that statement to support tithes. SAME HERE. Jesus had NOT yet returned to FULL GLORY and thus was less than the Father who stayed in fullness of glory. Now that He has returned, its co-equality. The icing on the cake is Petres_James_Bond's post above: There is ONLY ONE God. so its either that Jesus is it or not. How you can say He is a God but a lesser one in the light of the stated scriptures, I do not understand. Remember Moses "Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is One God". So please enlighten us on this "fact" that there exists more than one God as you have said. And please don't bring "revelation knowledge" or "baby teeth" into the matter except you're actually multitasking and Joagbaje is one of your aliases. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by KunleOshob(m): 2:32pm On May 31, 2010 |
@nuclearboy I am the last person on this forum that shd be described as a WOFer, as I said earlier I really don't like debating this trinity topic on a public forum. However the onus is on you trinitarians to show us sound scriptural proof of trinity or one single scripture that implies Jesus is co-equal with God. As far as the bible is concerned Jesus is the son of God and God is superior to him. I would not be led by sentiments to add to scriptures or add extra biblical theories to it. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by DeepSight(m): 3:39pm On May 31, 2010 |
Enigma: I still cannot contemplate what state of hallucination or exhausted cerebral laundry will compel a man to conceive a foreigner as Almighty God. You can yet imagine that same man will dain to look down on his ancestors for being in awe of the white man. Notwithstanding that with the privilege of education all he can now do is go a step beyond his ancestors and actually worship same foreigner as ALMIGHTY GOD. THIS STINKS. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by DeepSight(m): 3:43pm On May 31, 2010 |
nuclearboy: I have asked you this question several times and and you never answer it. Perhaps it cannot be answered? I repeat - 1. WOF members claim Divinity (according to you) 2. YOU claim that a proven mortal Jewish man is GOD. What makes you better than the WOF? You both ascribe Divinity to men, afterall. So how dare you call them deluded? Cos looks to me like y'all are in the same presumtuous boat. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by DeepSight(m): 3:57pm On May 31, 2010 |
nuclearboy: To what extent will you not go to contradict and "explain away" exactly what your lord said? Why do you delight in calling Jesus a liar? ? ? ? ? Contradiction: If they were all the same person, you would not have to describe them as "equal." The very word "equal" connotes two entities that balance out in weight. Nobody bothers to describe himself as being equal with himself. If i talk now, una go say i hate christianity: yet you are not ashamed to bandy about such sickening and contradictory superstitions. I tell you today that every time you compare Jesus of Nazareth to God, YOU BLASPHEME GOD. YOU SHOW YOURSELF TO HAVE NO REGARD FOR THE CREATOR. YOU SHOW YOURSELF TO LIVE IN UTTER HATRED AND CONTEMPT OF SCRIPTURE. FOR SCRIPTURE STATES - I AM THE LORD, YOU SHALL WORSHIP NONE ELSE AFTER ME. . . THERE IS NONE LIKE ME AND BESIDE ME THERE CAN BE NO OTHER. . . It is frankly embarrasing that you claim that Jesus returned to equality with the father when he ascended. For Revelation very clearly indicates him still "receiving authourity" from "the one on the throne" and "sitting beside" the one on the throne. . . I assert to you today that you are an ancestor-worshipper as you worship a late human being. There is nothing even remotely "thesitic" about your belief system, and if at all there is then you are a polytheist, a cultist happy to worship a Jewsih man. I can conceive of no lower form of spiritual engagement. If at all the word "spiritual" may be applied to the ancestor worship that you so fanatically brandish. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by DeepSight(m): 4:01pm On May 31, 2010 |
Firmly I believe and truly Gentlemen read the quote above. Is there any further evidence required of the gravest and most extreme derangement? GOD IS INFINITE. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by Enigma(m): 5:12pm On May 31, 2010 |
nuclearboy: Absolutely! That is the nub of the matter. Either Jesus is God or not. None of this He is "god" or somewhere between "god" and "God" business! |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by nuclearboy(m): 6:30pm On May 31, 2010 |
@ My delusions are mine. My understanding of them and their effect in my life keep me in check against many vices I used to have that I've been able to cast off which has made me a better and more valuable person to/in society. Why you are the one using Alabukun for MY headache puzzles me. And your sudden care and protection of the Almighty is laughable. This Creator you negate by turning Him into a math equation, by stating He basically is a joker who created and now sits laughing at our antics, by going against all laws of His, has suddenly become so dear to you that you need to protect Him from such as me. Bro, na wa O. BTW, anytime this Jesus whom you revile has to wear a personality or effigy of semblance, he loses part of the totality that comes from absolute freedom of encumbrance. So He would again be limited. These things are readily understood by "renewed" minds and are a bit more complicated when primary focus is in protecting physical gratifications and arguing finer points of "interpretation" rather than truth. |
| Re: For Trinity Sunday by InesQor(m): 7:34am On Dec 08, 2010 |
LOL! |
The 3w's Devil Uses To Get People / I Need A Correct Juju Man / Why Planet Earth Cannot Be A Billion Years Old!
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