In a civilised and intellectually serious society, everyone's freedom of speech doesn't end where the feelings of some people or group begin ie. your feelings aren't the limits of people's freedom of speech. Religious folks fail to realise that because they hold something sacred and in high regard doesn't mean that others should follow suit or at least regard it well enough to not criticise and scrutinise it and give negative opinions of it. Truth is, people are free to disrespect, call names and say whatever they want even if you find it disrespectful and degrading. You can be offended(that's allowed) but you are not allowed to deprive them of the right to do so neither are you allowed to impose punishment on them for making use of their freedom of speech.

People are free to use and alter the concept of religious clothing designs and symbols as they wish--- it's their freedom of expression and you can't take it any from them. The symbols, arts, religious characters and entities and clothing designs you hold sacred are not sacred to others and shall not be forcefully made sacred and respectable to them. It's okay for a prostitute to wear a nun's dress and go about her prostitution, it okay to draw Muhammad or Jesus in cartoon and alter and portray them as you like(eg. it okay to draw Jesus or Muhammad snorting cocaine and having sex, it's okay to draw blessed virgin Mary as a LovePeddler etc.), it's okay to purchase the bible, quran and any holy books to wipe your ass or sell akara etc. these are your rights and no one is allowed to punish you for it or impose it on you that you should respect and not criticise what they find sacred and respectable.

"...but Martinez, mature people respect other people's beliefs." Says who? Probably by apologist and soft skinned believers who don't like reality or perhaps, as far as religion is concerned, always want to have their way. Religious people should toughen up and realise that not everyone find sacred what they find sacred and not everyone respects what they respect. Religious people should realise that they don't have the right make their feelings and religiousity the limits of people's freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Also people are free to find sacred and respectable anything they want as long as they don't use these to limit people's freedom of speech and freedom of expression. You can be offended but your feelings of offence should never limit people's freedom of speech and expression. Toughen up!

HopefulLandlord, HardMirror, 1Sharon, hahn, Tozara, 0temSapien, segunojo886, Tozara, proudgorgeousga, akintom, Seun, makydebbie, frank317 etc.

Any belief that's shoved down people's throats or seek to control others by influencing laws deserves no respect. only scrutiny, if its found wanting it should then be ridiculed

hopefulLandlord:
Any belief that's shoved down people's throats or seek to control others by influencing laws deserves no respect. only scrutiny, if its found wanting it should then be ridiculed

True, when you mock religion and call it for what it is, people try to tell you to stop that because "these are sensitive issues to many people" and "people should respect the beliefs of others."

Even some atheists and agnostics have fallen for these. Any restrictions of people's free speech and freedom of expression in a secular society must be vehemently fought against.

Actions have repercussions.
Intelligence is knowing what to say.
Wisdom is knowing how to say it.

DeSepiero:
Actions have repercussions.
Intelligence is knowing what to say.
Wisdom is knowing how to say it.

True. What I wrote in my op is supposed to be in effect but it's too bad that it's not (thanks to lenient authorities) hence the need to be wise about one's actions in making use of their freedom of expression when touching religious matters.

hopefulLandlord:
Any belief that's shoved down people's throats or seek to control others by influencing laws deserves no respect. only scrutiny, if its found wanting it should then be ridiculed

Ridiculed from what perspective? The belief which seeks to control others and successfully does?

DeSepiero:


Ridiculed from what perspective? The belief which seeks to control others and successfully does?

I seem not to understand the question sir

Martinez19:
True, when you mock religion and call it for what it is, people try to tell you to stop that because "these are sensitive issues to many people" and "people should respect the beliefs of others."

Even some atheists and agnostics have fallen for these. Any restrictions of people's free speech and freedom of expression in a secular society must be vehemently fought against.

When people tell me to respect other peoples choices of belief I reply that they should also respect MY choice to criticise other people's choices of belief

A Christian wakes up one morning and starts singing at the top of her voice "Jesus na you be oga, every other god na so so yeye, every other god na soso wayo"; "Jesus power superpower, babalawo power, powerless power"

She's oblivious of the fact that she's disrespecting other people's belief with those songs but criticise Jesus and She'll quickly tell you to respect other people's belief. Talk about Hypocrisy

I do not think it is civilise behavior to buy a religious book and use it to wipe your anus .It is barbaric and very crude .The abrasive nature of the paper might leave some tear which makes it easy for infection to happen
I am neither an atheist nor a religious person so I understand how it feels when some religious people try to control your behavior because they assume they know what is right for you.As a civilise person you should not respond by disparaging what they believe in even if it seems illogical to you or calling them idiots,stupid, brainless
I think the correct thing is to act in a way that will make the religious person to want find out what keeps you going even when you don't think like them
So Incase you already bought a Bible or the Koran you intend to wipe your anus with,please change your mind and give it out to a neighbor who is either a Christian or Muslim tomorrow morning and see how you are going to bring happiness to somebody s life
We all seek happiness the reason most people search for it in a religion

triplechoice:
I do not think it is civilise behavior to buy a religious book and use it to wipe your anus . It is barbaric and very crude . The abrasive nature of the paper might leave some tear which makes it easy for infection to happen
I am neither an atheist nor a religious person so I understand how it feels when some religious people try to control your behavior because they assume they know what is right for you. As a civilise person you should not respond by disparaging what they believe in even if it seems illogical to you or calling them idiots,stupid, brainless
I think the correct thing is to act in a way that will make the religious person to want find out what keeps you going even when you don't think like them
So Incase you already bought a Bible or the Koran you intend to wipe your anus with,please change your mind and give it out to a neighbor who is either a Christian or Muslim tomorrow morning and see how you are going to bring happiness to somebody s life
We all seek happiness the reason most people search for it in a religion

Hian!

@bold
It is not logically advisable to use hard paper to wipe one's butt but people have the right to do so. My topic is not about what you deem civilised or not, it's about people's rights.

@red
It might be barbaric and crude but do they have the right to use hard paper to wipe their ass? Yes! And they shouldn't be forced to do otherwise or be punished for doing so. The rights are the only focus of my topic.

@green
Lol who asked you? The consequences of their choices is their's to bear if they want to wipe their ass with hard paper. They have the right to wipe their ass with hard paper. Their right to do so, not consequences of doing so, is the only focus of my topic.

@blue
It's not uncivilised to insult and ridicule ideas neither is it uncivilised to call people names. The manner, subjectively, is what determines if it's uncivilised or not. Given the rot which religion has, is and will descend on humanity, it's alright and deserving of religion to have insults and ridicule come it's way.
People love feeling good about themselves but the truth must be told. People who believe in religious claims are being foolish and stupid as far that aspect is concerned and it's not uncivilised to point that out. That's the truth.

@purple
Hmm. Are you the weak minded type that shivers at harsh reality and therefore will seeks solace in something(lies or truth) as long as it brings comfort? If you are like that, you have to toughen up for your own good. The correct response to absurd garbages like religion should be a critical scrutiny and analysis of it's claims, debunking where necessary and calling it for what it is. You don't take an idea as valid or respect it simply because it helps you cope--- that's weak mindedness.

@brown
Oh I see. Happiness of others is more important than the truth, right? By the way, I won't fuel the delusions that has torn mankind apart by giving people tools(bible and quran) to help submerge themselves further in these delusions. It's in the best interest of humanity. Truth is more important than happiness. Truth ensures man takes a realistic outlook and approach to life and taking a realistic outlook and approach to life not only ensures our survival and puts us out of harms way, it ensures an increase in the quality of life(I won't go into details).

@last remark
If happiness leads to lies and ignorance of truth then it's not worth it. This is true and it's in the best interest of the individual and society.

[quote author=Martinez19 post=71292855] Hian!

@bold
It is not logically advisable to use hard paper to wipe one's butt but people have the right to do so. My topic is not about what you deem civilised or not, it's about people's rights.

People also have the right to react if the find your behaviour offensive. You cannot stop them from doing so . Except you live in Jupiter, you should know, from experience, how people on earth take certain issues if not why should any be bothered by your personal fantasies


@red
It might be barbaric and crude but do they have the right to use hard paper to wipe their ass? Yes! And they shouldn't be forced to do otherwise or be punished for doing so. The rights are the only focus of my topic.

Yes, they have the right to do so provided it is done in the right location. But if they choose to record it and post or even stream it live on Facebook then they should be ready to bear the consequences of their action. In certain climes, they would be tracked and bundled 'rightfully' into an asylum.

@green
Lol who asked you? The consequences of their choices is their's to bear if they want to wipe their ass with hard paper. They have the right to wipe their ass with hard paper. Their right to do so, not consequences of doing so, is the only focus of my topic.

Glad to know you still have your sense of humor intact. I was wondering at a point if I was not dealing with a psychopath . I agree the consequences is their's 'to bear and that they are entitled to their rights but as long as they live and interact with other humans who may be overly sensitive to certain issues, then it is my opinion that such rights as you intend to express should simply be mastubated on
@blue
It's not uncivilised to insult and ridicule ideas neither is it uncivilised to call people names. The manner, subjectively, is what determines if it's uncivilised or not. Given the rot which religion has, is and will descend on humanity, it's alright and deserving of religion to have insults and ridicule come it's way.
People love feeling good about themselves but the truth must be told. People who believe in religious claims are being foolish and stupid as far that aspect is concerned and it's not uncivilised to point that out. That's the truth.

I thought you were not concern about the form it should take. I have not mentioned that one should not express their right to criticize and maybe ridicule other people's ideas but there are boundaries you do not cross. You say people who believe in religious claims are foolish? then sorry to say that your naivety has made you not to see that you have been sold a dummy. Religion to me is all pretence. Why should I worry myself over those who do not practice what they preach. There was a time in my life I used to bother myself over religious arguments but not now. I have decided to channel my energies elsewhere.


@purple
Hmm. Are you the weak minded type that shivers at harsh reality and therefore will seeks solace in something(lies or truth) as long as it brings comfort? If you are like that, you have to toughen up for your own good. The correct response to absurd garbages like religion should be a critical scrutiny and analysis of it's claims, debunking where necessary and calling it for what it is. You don't take an idea as valid or respect it simply because it helps you cope--- that's weak mindedness.

Me weak minded? that assessment is wrong. I am not sure you can handle some of the things I have dealt with when it comes to religion.. I do not see religion as completely garbage it has its benefits if you ask me, with what I now know, to choose between religion and atheism, I will go for the former. at least we know from science that religious people live healthier, happier lives even if it is gotten from what we may regard as ignorance. Believe in anything no matter how absurd may lead the way to self discovery

@brown
Oh I see. Happiness of others is more important than the truth, right? By the way, I won't fuel the delusions that has torn mankind apart by giving people tools(bible and quran) to help submerge themselves further in these delusions. It's in the best interest of humanity. Truth is more important than happiness. Truth ensures man takes a realistic outlook and approach to life and taking a realistic outlook and approach to life not only ensures our survival and puts us out of harms way, it ensures an increase in the quality of life(I won't go into details).

Yes, sometimes happiness may come from a lie . It works in two ways. Some persons are not ready for the truth if you try to force it on them it may lead to a dislocation. For such, just let them be. It is just a matter of time they will learn. The only way you can help is share truth by not ridiculing them otherwise you put them on the defensive because it is natural for people to defend what they stand for no matter how absurd. So let them enjoy their 'lie' until when truth opens it's doors for them to walk in. While in the other way, you value truth more only when you have experienced the lie. Sometimes it is advisable to allow people have certain experiences and learn from it. I do not think it is religious books that is tearing mankind apart but rather the insincerity of those hiding under religion to perpetrate evil

@last
If happiness leads to lies and ignorance of truth then it's not worth it. This is true and it's in the best interest of the individual and society.
True happiness does not lead to lies. it is our responsibility to point this out. We should not stop doing this but do it with common sense

@triplechoice.

@your reply to my bold comment
Did I say people did not have the right to react if they feel offended? All I stated was that a long as the offender is not violating your rights and breaking any laws, then no problem. People have the right to react as long as they do not assault or try take away the rights of the offender. It is my right to draw Muhammad on a piece of paper and no Muslim has the right to physically assault me but they have the right to verbally condemn it (because everyone has the right to make their opinion). Ever heard "the freedom of your fist ends at my face"?

@ your second reply
Oh yes I agree with you, the wrong locations are determined by sanitary laws of the country and institutions. In every sane country, wiping your ass with the bible or quran you bought with your money in the privacy of your toilet is your right.

@ your third reply
Wow. So I came across as a psychopath because my truthful posts about human freedom didn't agree with your feelings? Just wow . As I have said, people's sensitivity are not the limit of people's freedom. Christians might as well not eat suya because the Hindus find it sensitive. As far as people's rights are concerned, your personal opinions are irrelevant. SMH.

@ your fourth reply
Of course I am not concerned about the form name callings and criticism take as long as they don't violate human rights. You should have paid attention to where I used the word "subjectively" and meant that what is deemed civilised manner depends on the individual and we know that what you deemed civilised manner doesn't matter as long as human rights are concerned.
It's fine not to bother about religious hypocrites/moderate and arguing against religion but those that want to have the right to and I maintain my stance that those that believe religious claims are foolish in the aspect of religion. *sighs*

@ your fifth response
Your reply proves what I suspected about you, a lover of happiness even at the expense of reason. Of what relevance is what you have dealt with, when it comes to religion, to the validity of religious claims? As I have said, people with great mental fortitude and apt reasoning accept reality however harsh it is but you don't come across as one with great mental fortitude and apt reasoning because I don't see how religious people living happier and healthier lives proves anything. A weakling prefers pleasant ignorance to harsh truths. Besides, I know miserable religious folks and I know happy atheists.

@your sixth response
As I have said, rather a harsh truth than a comforting lie. If lying to myself will bring me happiness then that happiness is not worth it. I am not a weakling. We atheists are not trying to force people to accept atheism, all we do is deconstruct absurd religious argument and call things the way they are. There are certain levels of stupid that don't require pampering rather they require harsh bashing. If people want to enjoy their lie, let them. It's also not right to let people live a lie, lies must be pointed out as soon as possible though I agree with you that it's best to employ an educative approach.
Though people deliberately use religion as a cover to perpetrate evil but it doesn't change the fact that religion inspires men to do stupid and wicked things. That's a fact.

@last
I agree with you. True happiness doesn't come from lies neither does it lead to lies.