₦airaland Forum

Seun:
Biocentrics is not a branch of science. It's a hypothesis by a medical doctor (not a real scientist) for which I can find no evidence.


Scientists have learnt a lot about consciousness. We've learnt how various chemicals and parts of the brain affect our conscious feelings, etc. That's why we now have effective treatments for depression, schizophrenia, etc. What we don't understand is self-awareness specifically. What makes us different from robots? What makes us feel that we are "real" while a computer program is just code no matter how smart it is? The point is that there is always something that science can't explain, but you can't say "therefore God" because science may figure it out tomorrow.

Your phobia for God is evident in this response. I never mentioned God or is God the only thing Atheists dont believe in? You dont believe in God, gods or higher powers.


Biocentric universe (from Greek: βίος, bios, "life"—also known as biocentrism—is a concept proposed in 2007 by American doctor of medicine Robert Lanza, a scientist in the fields of regenerative medicine and biology, which sees biology as the central driving science in the universe, and an understanding of the other


So he is not a scientist right? I guess Wikipedia is wrong and seun is right.

cloudgoddess:
That second part really is at the crux of all this.

Even if consciousness is not yet fully explained by science -- which I completely concede to (however we have tons of evidence that consciousness, at least for human beings, can not exist without physical & chemical elements functioning in such a way as to allow it) -- I can't for the life of me figure out how that lack of understanding proves Yahweh, or any of the personal gods described & worshipped by humans.

It's like saying, "we don't know why stars are so bright, so there has to be a star fairy planting stars throughout the galaxy!" Like how did you get from point A to point Z?

There are too many unevidenced assumptions one would have to make to conclude that the God of Abraham is real and wants us to follow Jesus, simply because consciousness is not yet fully understood.

My sister you contradict yourself by saying science cannot explain consciousness and in the same breath talk about chemical effects on consciousness.

You see science prides itself in well documented facts based on repeated experiments as proof. So science is basically a law of ratio or averages. If something works 70% of the time when done a certain way then its generalised as the norm.

However consciousness CANNOT and HAS NOT followed that order of averages or ratios.

In a sense this pushes the envelope on why when we sleep our mind does not sleep and it experiences dreams and visions and for some, a glimpse into the future so drugs may hold back the brain but not the mind.

Get it now? Go through the links I posted since none of you had any proof to your assertions and update yourself.

There are very few Atheists who are willing to humble themselves and admit to an error or that they were actually wrong.

This thread is classic proof of that. Proof has beeb shown why you all are wrong and rather than admit it you all ran away.

You would come and peek at the thread and then slinker away in shame.

Consciouness is proof of a higher level that dwarfs science and even science has admitted to this as being true.

So if science proves that consciousness exists why then do we argue about evolution especially since consciousness did not evolve?

Food for thought.

We talk am dem no gree! We shout am dem no gree! We whisper am dem still no gree say na dem dem. The pissful people...the people who hit their head on the ground repeatedly and who just finished starving.

See am now. Imam say chase her away. Why? Where she dey tanda dey preach na your land? No

The ote dem wey dem say to chase person away come go kill am.

Now question: if Imam no teach dem say na to kill the preachers of Jesus sure pass dem for think of killing the woman?

Food for thought!

Seun:
It is true that consciousness isn't well understood by science at this time. We can make robots that behave like conscious beings, but we do not believe they have the same sense of self-awareness that animals and people seem to have. This is absolutely true.

But the inability of science to explain something doesn't prove the existence of God. There was a time when we could not explain how life came to be, thunder & lightning, how birds fly, how bats navigate without light, rainbows, etc. People took our inability to explain those things as a sign of the existence of God, but now we understand them through science. We may eventually understand consciousness through science.i

Your speculations about the nature of consciousness are just speculations. There's no evidence that they are correct. I could come up with mine, and they would be equally useless. You can't just make things up and act as if they are true.

Seun you should have stopped at "science cannot explain consciousness" because that was the only statement that made sense.

You say science can still prove consciousness? They have been trying to do since pre 1930 and have been unable to.

They have even tried applying their favourite escape route " QUANTUM THEORY" and that also has failed. Rather what it did was create a whole new branch of science called BIOCENTRICS but ironically the same biocentrics has proven the existence of consciousness outside the body as you cannot link the mind to the brain.

You also said that you could say your own theory and it would be useless. But of course it would be useless because you have no proof. Ironically all you enjoy doing is to use scientific evidence to make your points and dispute others but this same science has proven consciousness as a reality outside the body or in death.

So are you confused or just living in your own head?

cloudgoddess:
So when a person consumes a poison, or is a victim of an accident that causes them to enter a vegetative state, is it God that takes away their consciousness? Or is the loss in consciousness a result of physical & chemical damage?

You comment shows you lack an understanding of what consciousness is. I am sure your loud silence now is proof that even you are confused

As usual when presented with their much sought after proof they run away and hide.

Confused lot.

otemanuduno:
But you haven't been bold enough to paste your prophecies publicly. You know why? Any vision seen by human being are mostly given by the subconscious. At the beginning the brain gives u 50% right visions and 50% wrong visions. The more you try harder, the more the right ones come. Ever wonder why the prophecies of Apostle Suleiman, Kumuyi, Bakare and Adeboye don't get fulfilled? Their subconscious gives them more wrong than right visions.

UNTIL ONE IS ABLE TO DETECT THUMMIM FROM URIM, ONE WILL TEND TO MAKE MISTAKES.

No be only Thummim and urim na Thummidiot and urine.

otemanuduno:
But you haven't been bold enough to paste your prophecies publicly. You know why? Any vision seen by human being are mostly given by the subconscious. At the beginning the brain gives u 50% right visions and 50% wrong visions. The more you try harder, the more the right ones come. Ever wonder why the prophecies of Apostle Suleiman, Kumuyi, Bakare and Adeboye don't get fulfilled? Their subconscious gives them more wrong than right visions.

UNTIL ONE IS ABLE TO DETECT THUMMIM FROM URIM, ONE WILL TEND TO MAKE MISTAKES.

SHUT YOUR LYING MOUTH YOU THIS OTE.

Has Reverad abi Reveralgebra not failed you?

You better check yourself into the nearest hospital or come to me for deliverance because you need it.

kevoh:
And I am not in the least surprised that you mentioned this, it only proves my point that you prefer going round in circles despite the weight of the arguments already put forward. What is left now, is for those with discerning minds to conclude.

And I have shown that their arguments are just their imagination because I showed them scientific links where scientists themselves said they were still studying consciousness so cannot offer any explanation.

Their arguments were built on the samd science that denies knowledge of same. So where then is the argument?

Lilbrown007:
And I Explained "Why" For U

How could you possibly explain why to me using science when science denies having knowledge of same? Pls explain that to me.

dalaman:
Non of the links you provided claimed that NDE occurs when people are dead.

Are you alright? The first two links was to show you that science had no explanation for consciousness because you claimed to know more than these same scientists who denied having any knowledge about consciousness.

The third link I think you need to read again and read about the two scientists whose names feature on that link.

Lilbrown007:
WHY ARE U LYING NA OR THE LINK U GAVE ME DIDN'T U READ FROM IT NOBODY IN THAT LINK GAVE AN ACCURATE ACCOUNT OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE REAL WORD THEY WERE ALL HALLUCINATING OR DIDN'T U READ THE SYMPTOMS IN THE LINK U GAVE ME??

Symptoms? Accurate? I think you are the one who needs to read it again.

You are still mentioning hallucinations when I already defined that for you? Smh

HardMirror:
We have proven consciousness to be a product of physical entities. Now prove otherwise and stop going in circles. You are just asking the same questions in different ways just to waste our time since you know you have nothing else to say.

You have only ended up deluding yourself and showing your ignorance because even scientists have said they cannot explain it with their own mouth.

So where did your scientific proof come from?

dalaman:
You haven't posted any scientific peer viewed study that says NDE is evidence for the after life or happens when people are dead. Post the scientific study here of you have it.

Is says here that science is CLOSING IN ON CONSCIOUSNESS....Thjs means they have no clue yet. SO WHERE ARE YOUR STATEMENTS COMING FROM?

http://www.livescience.com/47096-theories-seek-to-explain-consciousness.html

And here

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jan/21/-sp-why-cant-worlds-greatest-minds-solve-mystery-consciousness



But here they have provided proof to consciousness scientifically.



http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/aug2/sciproof.htm


Its either science is confused or you are confused or you know more than the same scientist whose theory you are pushing forward and who have denied even having any theory .

So tell me are you a scientist? Or are my above links also lies and fabrications.

HardMirror:
You take the attention I am giving you for granted. Consciousness is ruled by action and reaction principles.
Don't take this as a liberty to ask everything that fits your whims. This is like aslking for the physical properties of love, jealousy, greed.

You keep evading. You said if consciousness was caused by chemicals and nerves in the brain, what is the chemical formula for consciousness. A very stvpid question, yet I still indulged your stvpidity and explained using a chemical battery that produces electricity. Here you are with another question.

All I see is a man grasping for straws here.

No brain, no consciousness. No nerves- no consciousness, no hormones - no consciousness. All this has been proven.

What are the physical properties of wearing a shoe?

Who proved it?

HardMirror:
You are just so funny.
Chemical substances produces electricity in batteries, is electricity a chemical substance?
You are playing ignorant. Lol
How can you a supposed educated man be asking me if consciousness is a chemical.
The battery example I gave you answers your question

But the chemical reactions produced in a battery do they make the battery conscious?

This is way above your head so just observe instead of making kiddy statements.

HardMirror:
So how is it that some drugs can alter your consciousness?

If you smoke good weed your consciousness will be altered. Thanks to the cannabinol (not sure of the spelling) in the weed. Same with lots of other drugs and chemicals.

Does this not tell you that consciousness is controlled by electrical impulses from the nerves and chemical interactions with the brain?

Or are those chemical compounds in hard drugs spiritual?

So drugs alter the consciousness right? Ok show me links or proof where someone with drug induced conscioisness and had his or her eyes closed and unreslonsive to light yet could see from another angle in the same room what everyone was doing.

Just one link would do.

dalaman:
If consciousness is immaterial as your claim then why do material stuffs affect it like drugs? Alcohol affects consciousness alot for example. A brain surgery can permanently alter your consciousness. If consciousness is immaterial then why does material damage or chemical effect on the brain alter or affect this immaterial consciousness?

Drugs do not affect consciouness as your idea of what consciouness is, isnt what we are talking about.

How can someone in a coma or who died come back and tell you what they SAW you doing while they lay lifeless or comatose with their eyes closed?

WHO WAS SEEING ALL THESE WHILE IN A COMA OR DEAD AND COULD REMEMBER THEM WHEN AWAKE?

dalaman:
This is false no scientific study has concluded that consciousness survives bodily death. NDE and OBE all happen when people are fully alive. Near death experience can be induced in the lab using certain drugs .

Again you speak from the smallness of your thinking capacity. So I guess the scientic information posted by scientists themselves online are all lies and what your much adored seun also stated about science not having any clue about how to explain consciousness is also a lie.

At least Seun admits his limitation but the rest of you are just clutching at straws.

Lilbrown007:
Hallucinations!! Cause They Ain't Completely Dead When Oxygen Stop Flowing To The Brain It Causes Hallucinations!! This Is Something They Teach In Biology Class Shey U Carry F9??

So now its Hallucinations? Please define Hallucination for me. Oh wait let me help you.

Hallucination - a sensory experience of something that does not exist outside the mind.

A Hallucination is same with a mirage. YOU SEE WHAT DOES NOT EXIST OR WHAT ISNT REAL.

BUT THESE PEOPLE GAVE ACCURATE ACCOUNTS OF REAL OCCURENCES THAT HAPPENED IN REAL TIME WHILE THEY WERE DEAD.

This is really above your reasoning ability I can tell.

Lilbrown007:
This Pic Are From Your Source They Is A Reason Its Called Near Death Experience!!

A near-death experience (NDE) is a personal experience associated with impending death, encompassing multiple possible sensations including detachment from the body, feelings of levitation, total serenity, security, warmth, the experience of absolute dissolution, and the presence of a light.

Explanatory models for the NDE can be divided into several broad categories, including psychological, physiological, and transcendental explanations.Research from neuroscience considers the NDE to be a hallucinatory state caused by various physiological and psychological factors

Again you miss it. Scientists had to recreate death itself in order to carry out their findings. They are not talking about the recreation of death of NDE they are talking about what happens afterwards. It seems you read but cannot assimilate.

How can four hundred test subjects all done in isolation from another share similar stories when revived and even stated all they saw being done while they were dead of supposedly dead.

Your brain is obviously too small to process this info I am sharing here. If it was just a feeling of levitation how come they had memories and could see everything even in that state?

Pocture this, you die or are put under clinical death and you have no brain activity and no life signs and close your eyes but you suddenly see the whole room from above your body and can see everyone and everything they are doing.

WHAT IS THAT THING THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO YET SEE AND HEAR EVERYTHING EVEN WITH ITS EYES CLLSED IN DEATH AND CAN ACCURATELY DESCRIBE WHAT IT SAW AND HEARD.

Lilbrown007:
[size=14pt]
And When Did I Say Coma Was Death?? Stop putting Words In My Mouth Just Like How U Christians Sorry I Ment Liars Do

So U Still Cant Bring Ur Source?? U know A Liar When U See One!![/size]

When you and the rest of your crew are done reading the links I provided and doing your own research you can come back and prove to me how evolution produced consciousness.

I REST MY CASE!

realmindz:
lwkm this one na yaba left oo

I no be Yaba left o. I am just messing around with the guy. I am helping him along with his Reverad fantasy. The guy now well.

Lilbrown007:
[size=14pt]
And When Did I Say Coma Was Death?? Stop putting Words In My Mouth Just Like How U Christians Sorry I Ment Liars Do

So U Still Cant Bring Ur Source?? U know A Liar When U See One!![/size]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/life-after-death-largest-ever-study-provides-evidence-that-out-of-body-and-near-death-experiences-9780195.html


http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/german-scientists-prove-there-is-life-after-death/


http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/670781/There-IS-life-after-DEATH-Scientists-reveal-shock-findings-from-groundbreaking-study


Too many to post so research the rest yourself. These three should help and guide u.

Lilbrown007:
[size=15pt]Still Playing Dumb Right U Still Don't Know What Coma Is??
Google Is Also Ur Friend Show Us U Ain't A Lie!! And Bring Ur Source Here!! [/size]

Coma is not death. Stop deluding yourself

plaetton:
You're just argued for argument's sake.
Nothing that wrote above remotely repudiates my earlier points.

Consciousness is the agglomeration of interactive information.
Even a computer, a non living object, retains interactive information even after it is turned off.

The scenario that you referred to above, even if true, supports the assertion that quantas of interactive information, when they agglomerate to a critical mathematical threshold, become independent of their source, whether that source is a biological entity or not.

This is what we call consciousness.
This is why the consciousness of a cockroach, a chimpanzee and a human being are different,.. simply because their levels of interactive information DIFFER.

Consciousness evolves in the way that , hand in hand with biological evolution.

You are slightly different person every day , because something, more interactive information is added to your consciousness every single day, every interaction.
Your consciousness is constantly evolving as your store of knowledge, your interactive information increases.

You do not even understand this discussion so you are talking from the left wing.

Consciousness here is not talking about knkwledge. First of all try to grasp an understanding of that before you type.

Lilbrown007:
Olodo Thats Why I Asked U If U New What Coma Is?? Yes of Course U Will Still Be Self Aware EVEN With The Eyes Closed
https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/what-its-like-to-be-in-a-coma-193252912.html

See how silly u sound. So being in a coma with ur eyes closed you would still be able to SEE not just HEAR everything everyone does in the room and when you wake up yoh give them a truthful and accurate account of all they were doing while you had your eyes closed in a coma?

Google is your friend. Do your research and quit talkinf about induced coma when I was talking about actual death.

Lilbrown007:
Can U Provide Evidence For This Claim?? I need Source!! Not lies

DO U Know What Coma Is?? Or What Induced Coma Is??

So induced coma would enable one still see every single thing going in the room with their eyes closed?

vincentico:
we degenerate physically because we breathe in oxygen
this oxygen keeping us alive is the very thing killing us
the cells in our bodies undergo oxidation

Thats the supposedly free radical theory of aging but even that is faulty because cells multiply and have the ability of recreating an exact same copy of the former so if oxidation occurs as fast as say 90 yrs why would the original healthy cell die off that fast when they divide a thousand times faster than we age.

Science itself proves that the cell from a man of 50 is as healthy as that of a man of 20 which is why a man of twenty can receive a liver or kidney or heart transplant from a man of fifty and that organ will live with him till he dies at maybe 90. So why doesnt the organ die off faster since its 30 years older.

Lilbrown007:
[size=20pt]Let's Take Out Ur Brain And See If U Will Still Be Conscious??[/size]

Doing what you just posted above translates to death but even science has documented cases of people who were clinically dead and were brought back to life medically and they narrated things that happened in the hospital while they were dead and they were spot on accurate.

When I say dead I mean totally dead with no brain activity and eyes closed yer they could see the room and the people in it and even their own dead body from an elevated position. How was this possible?

The fact is that many lf these scientists whose theories many of you are still running around with have abandoned these theories and run to God and you are still on what they have left behind as they realised how foolish they were.