The panegyric for Twins in Yoruba land usually begins with "Ejire Ara Isokun...", so I'm wondering where is Isokun exactly located in yorubaland and why are the Ibejis(Twins) regarded as inhabitants of Isokun land?


I have searched online, was referred to Isokun in Shagamu and Ilesa...don't know the exact one!

Isokun is located in Ilesa

MasterDreamz:
The panegyric for Twins in Yoruba land usually begins with "Ejire Ara Isokun...", so I'm wondering where is Isokun exactly located in yorubaland and why are the Ibejis(Twins) regarded as inhabitants of Isokun land?


I have searched online, was referred to Isokun in Shagamu and Ilesa...don't know the exact one!

Do a search for a guy named Imperial Yoruba, he talked about this in a thread on Yoruba and Origin. According to him the Isokun in this Oriki connects back many centuries to a Yoruba patriarch named Issac.

Imperial Yoruba your attention is needed here.

Isokun is the umbilical cord.

MetaPhysical:


Do a search for a guy named Imperial Yoruba, he talked about this in a thread on Yoruba and Origin. According to him the Isokun in this Oriki connects back many centuries to a Yoruba patriarch named Issac.

Imperial Yoruba your attention is needed here.

Wetin consign Ibeji with Isaac nitori Ọlọ́run?

The way you guys infuse Yoruba legends into your foreign religion is alarming.

First it is Esu been Satan

Oduduwa from mecca

And now Isaac with Ibeju.

Make una stop this yeye attachee. We are who we are.

FOLYKAZE:


Wetin consign Ibeji with Isaac nitori Ọlọ́run?

The way you guys infuse Yoruba legends into your foreign religion is alarming.

First it is Esu been Satan

Oduduwa from mecca

And now Isaac with Ibeju.

Make una stop this yeye attachee. We are who we are.

And what business of yours is it if Isaac is Isokun ? Do you even know the meaning of Isokun? Please if you have nothng to add,kindly flee this comment room because you are filled with antagonism. People like you need be banned from ‘culture section' because you don't knowand will find joy when you post irrelevant views.

What do we fuse into yoruba legend? A legend filled with supposedly fairy tales in the eyes of the world that we are unraveling!In as much that Isaac is an English word name and not Ancient Hebrew's word, then your view is baseless because you don't even have knowledge of the ancient history of the Middle East. So excuse us, because the students of history wnt to learn and not condemn people's view.

Olu317:


And what business of yours is it if Isaac is Isokun ? Do you even know the meaning of Isokun? Please if you have nothng to add,kindly flee this comment room because you are filled with antagonism. People like you need be banned from ‘culture section' because you don't knowand will find joy when you post irrelevant views.

What do we fuse into yoruba legend? A legend filled with supposedly fairy tales in the eyes of the world that we are unraveling!In as much that Isaac is an English word name and not Ancient Hebrew's word, then your view is baseless because you don't even have knowledge of the ancient history of the Middle East. So excuse us, because the students of history wnt to learn and not condemn people's view.

This one is mad o.

What has your tantrum added to this thread? The last time I check you are not the op nor did I quote you. Abeg take your madness elsewhere

FOLYKAZE:


This one is mad o.

What has your tantrum added to this thread? The last time I check you are not the op nor did I quote you. Abeg take your madness elsewhere

That's exactly your type who has no reason being on thread as this because you are a young person and type trash on a thread meant to educate people.And as expected, you have shown how trained you're with vain terminology. Trust me, there is always a remedy from the moderators who ought bring sanity so that people like you need be allowed to rest for some days before you mess up this chatroom outrightly.

FOLYKAZE:


Wetin consign Ibeji with Isaac nitori Ọlọ́run?

The way you guys infuse Yoruba legends into your foreign religion is alarming.

First it is Esu been Satan

Oduduwa from mecca

And now Isaac with Ibeju.

Make una stop this yeye attachee. We are who we are.

It is very irritating. I don't know who infected them with the inferiority complex by injecting judeo-christian myths into our our own myths and origins.

kayfra:


It is very irritating. I don't know who infected them with the inferiority complex by injecting judeo-christian myths into our our own myths and origins.

inferiority complex? Quite hilarious reading this. Any way, I am bold to stand by what our ancestors have achieved and what they want us to know aboyuylt which was the basis for the artistic work,hieroglyphs and myths.

If I were you,I will ponder why Yoruba isn't the language being used in educational system . I guess, you arent even more passionate and proud about our ancestors spoken ritual language but prefer to develop interest in English language that borrowed Yoruba words and anglicise them.You doubt? Wait for the revelation in years to come.


My actual problem with some of you is that you looked down on Yoruba people as ‘common people' and you are absolutely wrong because here you are with smoothness in rhetoric to call fact finding information as inferiority complex. Give your statement a rethink.

Lastly, I will bow down to your view if you know what is written on Oranmiyan's obelisk(hieroglyphs). So Kindly interpretate it since you think some of us adhered to Judeo-christian theory,which you find offensive. Do you even know Allah was coined from Hebrews-Yoruba's Elah-Ela'?

It is better you glorify God that some people are decoding the code of handwriting of Yoruba ancestors. God continues to bless the legendary Godly yoruba ancestors


Cheers

Olu317:
inferiority complex? Quite hilarious reading this. Any way, I am bold to stand by what our ancestors have achieved and what they want us to know aboyuylt which was the basis for the artistic work,hieroglyphs and myths.

If I were you,I will ponder why Yoruba isn't the language being used in educational system . I guess, you arent even more passionate and proud about our ancestors spoken ritual language but prefer to develop interest in English language that borrowed Yoruba words and anglicise them.You doubt? Wait for the revelation in years to come.


My actual problem with some of you is that you looked down on Yoruba people as ‘common people' and you are absolutely wrong because here you are with smoothness in rhetoric to call fact finding information as inferiority complex. Give your statement a rethink.

Lastly, I will bow down to your view if you know what is written on Oranmiyan's obelisk(hieroglyphs). So Kindly interpretate it since you think some of us adhered to Judeo-christian theory,which you find offensive. Do you even know Allah was coined from Hebrews-Yoruba's Elah-Ela'?

It is better you glorify God that some people are decoding the code of handwriting of Yoruba ancestors. God continues to bless the legendary Godly yoruba ancestors


Cheers

Smh.

kayfra:
Smh.

Lol... Asin wetin concern Ela with Allah? Wordplay.
These guys are something else.

FOLYKAZE:



Lol... Asin wetin concern Ela with Allah? Wordplay.

These guys are something else.

Who creates a cottage industry out of wordplay and silly linguistic associations without relative time reference?

Awon asiwin

For those of you who see it as strange to accept the weight of Yoruba language that begun in Near East, need not deviate from the purpose of the this thread,‘Ejire ara isokun' .If you find my revelation offensive,then go study please instead of rhetoric with no known destination,so that you can null my information in the eyes of the real scholars and mavens

FOLYKAZE:


He is going to add that initiation into Ifa and Islamic pilgrimage is the relative reference. Mentioning clean shave, white clothing and long walk (into Igbodu/Medina).

Also Alfa is from Ifa.

Mad people.





@OP. There are many words in the panegyric and Ifa corpus that shouldn't be deciphered literally. Also, Isokun could be symbolic or became non-existent or mystical. It is a location just like Ife-Oodaye which is unknown till date. I think the most important thing here is the message been passed across.

Even in that Ibeji panegyric, an animal, Edun was mentioned. The panegyric explains that Edun and Ibeji are relatives from the same family tree. There is a verse in Ifa that buttress more on this. Could you believe Ifa is explaining Human Evolution there? Edun is a Ape specie.....just like we are taught human and ape are cousin.

My point is, when we don't ask the right question, we may arrive at the wrong answer. The premises of our question then should be understanding or having idea of what we ask.

This is it. When someone ask 'who' is Ogun in the creation story that moulded bone. Everyone will scramble and start search for a person who bears Ogun. The word 'who' could easily drive the audience away by making them think Ogun is a person. But when you analyze deeply, you will find out that Calcium builds bone; calcium is iron ; iron is Ogun. Therefore the Ogun been referred to in the creation story is Calcium. So the right way of asking that won't cause confusion is 'what' instead if 'who'.

To understand what Isokun is, we need to analyze the whole panegyric and some Ifa verses that mentioned the it. That way, we will be able to conclude if the place is existent or mystical

Ogun - the deity
Ogun - alchemy (calcium)
Ogun - entitlement
Ogun - war

Pick your choice, the same element in its different manifest.

Edun in the Ejire Oriki is an attribute of their intrigues with their parents and nothing to do with human evolution. All Yoruba Kings are greeted as Ajanaku or Erin Folami. It's simply an attribute of the might and authority of their throne.

FOLYKAZE:


Wetin consign Ibeji with Isaac nitori Ọlọ́run?

The way you guys infuse Yoruba legends into your foreign religion is alarming.

First it is Esu been Satan

Oduduwa from mecca

And now Isaac with Ibeju.

Make una stop this yeye attachee. We are who we are.

Feel free to review everything I have written on Yoruba origin. Your argument is incapable of withstanding my knowledge on origin and you are not going to use criticism to push my input out. Yes, I say it, the Isokun in the Oriki is Isaac. I spoke at length with the guy that threw it out and I believe what he shared. He shared stuffs that even Israelites and Arabs cannot refute. Unfortunately these things are not in scholastic journals so you guys dismiss it.

MetaPhysical:


Ogun - the deity
Ogun - alchemy (calcium)
Ogun - entitlement
Ogun - war

Pick your choice, the same element in its different manifest.

Edun in the Ejire Oriki is an attribute of their intrigues with their parents and nothing to do with human evolution. All Yoruba Kings are greeted as Ajanaku or Erin Folami. It's simply an attribute of the might and authority of their throne.

You are right. One will get full understanding of Yoruba words when we don't interpret it literally. That is how it applies even in our day to day word usage.

I deducted the Human evolution majorly from Ifa verse. Thing I created a thread about it in the religion section but it is missing after nairaland data lose. No thanks to Seun.

The creation stories in different cultures always start with appearance of light. Also religion captured light. But in Yoruba story, Obatala was mentioned at the first person to start up physical world creation. As we know, Obatala represents light, purity and consciousness. Therefore, it would make sense to explain Obatala as the light from the explosion of the particle. Do you see big bang theory?

Why did Yoruba attribute life starting from Yemoja? Yemoja is representation of feminine, productivity, life and water. Science help us to know life started from water. Could this mean Ifa foresaw all these before modern science? Why didn't Ifa attribute life to Sonponna or Osanyin?

Have you head how Yemoja made her way to earth when Aginjù made attempt to kill her. The story held that Yemoja had pregnancy for his son, Aginjù. An abomination in the spirit world. So Aginjù knowing he will be punished severally took upon himself decision to kill his mother. Yemoja ran toward earth, but she crash landed and hit her bowel on rock which makes her belly cut open and everything in her belly flushed out. These things are water, vegetation, wealth andso more. Science theory posit Icy comet bombarding the earth as the origin of water. Making sense?

I will interpret Sango as electrical energy. There is a thread for it in the religion section. So I pick up stories, study it hard by relating some Ifa verses and explain it naturally and scientifically.

In the Ifa corpus where I picked that theory of Ogun been calcium, the verse explains that Apes and Men (gave them name and perceive them as one) lives together in a village (named the village too). They were tasked to make sacrifice so that they won't live in the forest like other animals. It was only human that made the sacrifice.

And note that each verses in Ohun enu ifa and odu Ifa merindinlogun comes with interpretations. Prof Wande Abimbola who himself is a renowned Babalawo explains that the verse was referring to Ape and Human and that we are from family tree. That was where Edun of Ibeji came into the picture.

The whole focus is to validate our stories with indisputable facts, not some myths of other people. Yoruba creation story is not fiction or myth as been described by the unknown. They are facts from pre-science era. A myth will never validate myth. Myth and fiction are not true occurrence or heavy fabrications. But when we analyze these stories with facts, they become true legends.

There are things you can't dispute in my submission. Firstly, every metallic object is Ogun. Secondly, Calcium is a metallic element which builds bone. Thirdly Yoruba story describe Ogun as bone moulder. Therefore Ogun is calcium.

MetaPhysical:


Feel free to review everything I have written on Yoruba origin. Your argument is incapable of withstanding my knowledge on origin and you are not going to use criticism to push my input out. Yes, I say it, the Isokun in the Oriki is Isaac. I spoke at length with the guy that threw it out and I believe what he shared. He shared stuffs that even Israelites and Arabs cannot refute. Unfortunately these things are not in scholastic journals so you guys dismiss it.

Omo Iya, no be fight. Thing is I don't really accept it when people infuse our legends with people thousands of miles away from us. Why always the middle east? Why not far east where we have miniscule Ifa system like Iching or Geomancy in Europe?

However, you may explain your point of view. I will respect your viewpoint. Thanks

Isokun is describing the two umbilical cords that usually spiral each other, when both were in the belly, signifying unity, inseparable life and love.

NB: Isokun has nothing to do with a town or city name. There is an old ‘Isokun’ town in Kwara state.

FOLYKAZE:


You are right. One will get full understanding of Yoruba words when we don't interpret it literally. That is how it applies even in our day to day word usage.

I deducted the Human evolution majorly from Ifa verse. Thing I created a thread about it in the religion section but it is missing after nairaland data lose. No thanks to Seun.

The creation stories in different cultures always start with appearance of light. Also religion captured light. But in Yoruba story, Obatala was mentioned at the first person to start up physical world creation. As we know, Obatala represents light, purity and consciousness. Therefore, it would make sense to explain Obatala as the light from the explosion of the particle. Do you see big bang theory?

Why did Yoruba attribute life starting from Yemoja? Yemoja is representation of feminine, productivity, life and water. Science help us to know life started from water. Could this mean Ifa foresaw all these before modern science? Why didn't Ifa attribute life to Sonponna or Osanyin?

Have you head how Yemoja made her way to earth when Aginjù made attempt to kill her. The story held that Yemoja had pregnancy for his son, Aginjù. An abomination in the spirit world. So Aginjù knowing he will be punished severally took upon himself decision to kill his mother. Yemoja ran toward earth, but she crash landed and hit her bowel on rock which makes her belly cut open and everything in her belly flushed out. These things are water, vegetation, wealth andso more. Science theory posit Icy comet bombarding the earth as the origin of water. Making sense?

I will interpret Sango as electrical energy. There is a thread for it in the religion section. So I pick up stories, study it hard by relating some Ifa verses and explain it naturally and scientifically.

In the Ifa corpus where I picked that theory of Ogun been calcium, the verse explains that Apes and Men (gave them name and perceive them as one) lives together in a village (named the village too). They were tasked to make sacrifice so that they won't live in the forest like other animals. It was only human that made the sacrifice.

And note that each verses in Ohun enu ifa and odu Ifa merindinlogun comes with interpretations. Prof Wande Abimbola who himself is a renowned Babalawo explains that the verse was referring to Ape and Human and that we are from family tree. That was where Edun of Ibeji came into the picture.

The whole focus is to validate our stories with indisputable facts, not some myths of other people. Yoruba creation story is not fiction or myth as been described by the unknown. They are facts from pre-science era. A myth will never validate myth. Myth and fiction are not true occurrence or heavy fabrications. But when we analyze these stories with facts, they become true legends.

There are things you can't dispute in my submission. Firstly, every metallic object is Ogun. Secondly, Calcium is a metallic element which builds bone. Thirdly Yoruba story describe Ogun as bone moulder. Therefore Ogun is calcium.

FOLYKAZE:


Omo Iya, no be fight. Thing is I don't really accept it when people infuse our legends with people thousands of miles away from us. Why always the middle east? Why not far east where we have miniscule Ifa system like Iching or Geomancy in Europe?

However, you may explain your point of view. I will respect your viewpoint. Thanks

I think I will condensce my view and awareness of Yoruba ideas into TWO distinct areas.

1. Ile Ife vs Yoruba
2. Yoruba civilization.


Ile Ife vs Yoruba treats the question of origin, the pre and post Oduduwa marker.

Yoruba Civilization treats the total collection of ideas, whether in myth, mysticism, philosophy, astrology, cosmology, esoterism, political, cultural, economy, history, art, spiritualism, and so on and so forth in all the antiquities from time immemorial till now.

There are some peculiar terms and names in Yorubaland that have a chain. Names like Ado-x, Isheri, Olofin, Oregun, Isokun, Igbo-x, Agbowa, Ketu, and so on.... These names are distributed and found in places with dynastic footprints. In other words, as the dynasties of Oduduwa spread they took with them certain insignias that legitimized their roots with Oduduwa in Ile Ife. These place names are not found outside dynastic realms, even if Yoruba influence were found beyond their territories. So there is a connection between the roots of Oduduwa children and a name like Isokun. Yoruba also carry the global first place in twin births. Again, this pattern is limited within the realms of the dynasties.

Yoruba should have its own place when cultures and civilizations are compared, amongst Western Ideas, MiddleEastern ideas, Eastern ideas, FarEastern ideas.....there should be a Central idea hinged on the knowledge and culture of Yoruba.


Let us step back for a moment and for purpose of equity we admit that a town named "Isokun" is the reference point in Ejire Ara Isokun. So there are many Isokun towns in Yorubaland, which should we explore, and how does Ejire connect to them?


On the issue of Calcium being a bone building compound and bone being associated with Ogun, can we then not also ascribe hydrocarbons to Ogun since it is mined with iron implements and its finished product in form of petrol is used for combustion to propel vehicles on roads....a place where Ogun dwells? But this will conflict with the realms of Osoosi and Shango, for mining and firepower respectively.

So you can see from above the highlight of mixing Western ideologies with Central (Yoruba) ideologies and producing an incompatible output.

In fact this point is what myself, Olu, prexios, absolutesuccess, and many others I cant readily recall have stressed here at length, that there exists for Yoruba a corpus of knowledge and ideologies, some of which are tangent with world ideas but most are at variant with Western ideas and civilization. Our education system however is a one-way approach and dismisses any thing that it cannot fit into a pro-Western idea of empirical and physical validation. The Central (Yoruba) idea on the other hand validates many knowledges and awareness hidden from physical proof. Each to its own and our civilization must not be killed off because it deviates or does not conform to Western ideologies.

Many more to share but i stop here for now.

MetaPhysical:





I think I will condensce my view and awareness of Yoruba ideas into TWO distinct areas.

1. Ile Ife vs Yoruba
2. Yoruba civilization.


Ile Ife vs Yoruba treats the question of origin, the pre and post Oduduwa marker.

Yoruba Civilization treats the total collection of ideas, whether in myth, mysticism, philosophy, astrology, cosmology, esoterism, political, cultural, economy, history, art, spiritualism, and so on and so forth in all the antiquities from time immemorial till now.

There are some peculiar terms and names in Yorubaland that have a chain. Names like Ado-x, Isheri, Olofin, Oregun, Isokun, Igbo-x, Agbowa, Ketu, and so on.... These names are distributed and found in places with dynastic footprints. In other words, as the dynasties of Oduduwa spread they took with them certain insignias that legitimized their roots with Oduduwa in Ile Ife. These place names are not found outside dynastic realms, even if Yoruba influence were found beyond their territories. So there is a connection between the roots of Oduduwa children and a name like Isokun. Yoruba also carry the global first place in twin births. Again, this pattern is limited within the realms of the dynasties.

Yoruba should have its own place when cultures and civilizations are compared, amongst Western Ideas, MiddleEastern ideas, Eastern ideas, FarEastern ideas.....there should be a Central idea hinged on the knowledge and culture of Yoruba.


Let us step back for a moment and for purpose of equity we admit that a town named "Isokun" is the reference point in Ejire Ara Isokun. So there are many Isokun towns in Yorubaland, which should we explore, and how does Ejire connect to them?

I still can't find how Isokun relates to Isaac in Judeo-christian legend. Please do well to explain yourself.

MetaPhysical:

On the issue of Calcium being a bone building compound and bone being associated with Ogun, can we then not also ascribe hydrocarbons to Ogun since it is mined with iron implements and its finished product in form of petrol is used for combustion to propel vehicles on roads....a place where Ogun dwells? But this will conflict with the realms of Osoosi and Shango, for mining and firepower respectively.

You so wish can depict Ogun as hydrocarbon but what does the creation legend got to do with fuelling system of engine? Any correlation?

A guy on this forum once relates Ogun to Lithium. And he makes his deduction from Ogun clearing the bush path and the first element from the big bang explosion. When you dig into the praises of Ogun (meje logun), you can point out seven different metallic tools been referred to Ogun in the praise. So the question here isn't just ascribing Ogun to a particular metallic element but showing the correlations.

In my case, I pin down to a Yoruba creation story and went deep into moulding of bone. So the Calcium theory won't go beyond that boundaries (creation story and moulding of bone).

MetaPhysical:

So you can see from above the highlight of mixing Western ideologies with Central (Yoruba) ideologies and producing an incompatible output.

In fact this point is what myself, Olu, prexios, absolutesuccess, and many others I cant readily recall have stressed here at length, that there exists for Yoruba a corpus of knowledge and ideologies, some of which are tangent with world ideas but most are at variant with Western ideas and civilization. Our education system however is a one-way approach and dismisses any thing that it cannot fit into a pro-Western idea of empirical and physical validation. The Central (Yoruba) idea on the other hand validates many knowledges and awareness hidden from physical proof. Each to its own and our civilization must not be killed off because it deviates or does not conform to Western ideologies.

Many more to share but i stop here for now.

Which would you prefer, a mythical man called Mars that fought wars in heavens or the reddish and dry planet Mars that is explain as representation of mythical Mars?

Would you believe a mythical figure Saturnus in Roman legend who ended up been chained and imprisoned in the dark cell or you will believe a realistic representation of the myth in Planet Saturn that in fact has two rings that round it?

Would you believe there is a man in heaven that mould bones of every living things and created physical world?

Or you will believe a particular man climbed down from the sky with chicken and calabash?

The observation of planetary bodies and natural world has been on since the Babylonia and beyond. These people records their observations in myth and fiction. This is how religion are formed around the world. But in actual fact, these elements and bodies observed are simply personified but truly existent.

Ifa isn't compilation of tales or fables. It is an compilation of ancient knowledge. It embodies history, science, spirituality, religion, morality, social law, poetry and arts.

The science aspect stem into medicine, neurology, biology, zoology, geography, agriculture and psychology.

The fact is many people look into the spiritual and religion aspect of it. But there are more.




Saturn is know in many cultures across the world as a mythical person. It appears in mythology of Babylon, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Japanese, Indian and Jewish. Until Galileo observed and discovered the rings around Saturn, that name was a mythical person. The centre point is people universally came to agree a planet is the representation of the mythical figure. Until Galileo discover.

This brought the question, what does our story represent in nature?

Do you want it to remain as fables or you want it to evolve like other mythical figures around the world?

What suggest correlation between Isokun and twin is that the twin once sojourned in the place known as Isokun. This is because, ‘Ara Isokun', in this context mean, dwellers or lives or lived in Isokun,but not indigenous to this place. In yoruba folklore,there are places named Isokun .For example, Isokun can be found in, Ijesa, in Oyo, or the one near Porto Novo, in Dahomey,which was the supposedly first place where twins were allowed to stay, and this was because Isokun was not, at that time part of the kingdom of Oyo(folklore). This was how the connection became panegyric of the twin in yoruba world's view to reference, a safe haven for the twin to dwell. This is a coined panegyric for twin to give them supernatural personality; in which they are seen .

But in actual fact, history of twin is in obscurity because a town like Ekimogun claimed being the first city to be established by a twin who became a ruler of the town,whose history is linked to Odua's himself and in another account, a descent of Oluaso who was a descent of Ajaka( Odua descendants). Part of the story has it that twin were being killed and one descendant of Odua or the man himself consulted Ifa, and he was told to keep the twin and had one of the child with him and sent the other away to another town,which was how Ekimogun was established around 14th century or thereabout, which actually didn't make any tangible sense because twin being killed is ne'er traceable to any family in Yoruba folklore. And another conflicting view is that Yoruba people can't actually mention the exact year the stoppage of twin killing in Yoruba land,which buttress, the point that Yoruba lost certain information about themselves via migration....

FOLYKAZE:


He is going to add that initiation into Ifa and Islamic pilgrimage is the relative reference. Mentioning clean shave, white clothing and long walk (into Igbodu/Medina).

Also Alfa is from Ifa.

Mad people.





@OP. There are many words in the panegyric and Ifa corpus that shouldn't be deciphered literally. Also, Isokun could be symbolic or became non-existent or mystical. It is a location just like Ife-Oodaye which is unknown till date. I think the most important thing here is the message been passed across.

Bro, you can't give a conclusion on a subject matter that you have not demonstrated any expertise. Please endeavour to share the stories you are alluding to in their original form sir. That done, you can then establish your authority as Yoruba folktale analyst with ease. And again, telling us what is "impossible" is like masking what is impossible to you as status quo, and infusing us with your "limitations" as "education".

"Ogbon o pin sibikan", says Yoruba, what "shouldn't be deciphered literally" by you could be done by another person to arrive at the core message: oun to koju senikan, eyin lo ko selomii biilu gangan. And then the contradiction: how do one make sense in a message you can't decipher to come to the ultimate conclusion that a message is already passed across?

Even in that Ibeji panegyric, an animal, Edun was mentioned. The panegyric explains that Edun and Ibeji are relatives from the same family tree. There is a verse in Ifa that buttress more on this. Could you believe Ifa is explaining Human Evolution there? Edun is a Ape specie.....just like we are taught human and ape are cousin.

In Iwori Meji, ifa says and I quote:

"Oro kii gbaaro, ka fi ale so, adia fun okoko niyele, ti yoo bani tule yiwo.
Nigbati Olodumare seda eniyan sile aye, won o ribi gbe, nitori ogede omi lo kun ile aye"

From the above, we see example of how to quote source to establish clear inference without interpolations of data from third party, not how to allege that somewhere a point in obscurity (evolution) was alluded to in a verse in obscurity (Ifa) making the inference deduced from both obscure sources a resounding fact. So, what is okokoniyele in the creation story above?

In scientific analysis of data, Ifa and evolution did not become a fact, its analysis of the claims deduced from both school of thought that one harness to make a point: meanwhile, Ifa was actually alluding to reverse-evolution, where one of the twins became ape, not where ape became one of the twins. The verse being referred is Odu ejilaesebora. You can share the Ifa-evolution piece to buttress your point.

So, by your standard, when osun was said to have become "aguntan" in Yoruba tradition, it means we branch out to those quadrupeds in evolution too? Just now you told us not to take the word of Ifa literally and that's exactly what you just do in a purposefully confusing way.

My point is, when we don't ask the right question, we may arrive at the wrong answer. The premises of our question then should be understanding or having idea of what we ask.

You are not an analyst, you are a reformer: you pick what others have shared and creates a brand new problem and produces a tailor-made solution to it.

This is it. When someone ask 'who' is Ogun in the creation story that moulded bone. Everyone will scramble and start search for a person who bears Ogun. The word 'who' could easily drive the audience away by making them think Ogun is a person. But when you analyze deeply, you will find out that Calcium builds bone; calcium is iron ; iron is Ogun. Therefore the Ogun been referred to in the creation story is Calcium. So the right way of asking that won't cause confusion is 'what' instead if 'who'.

Bro, you are a creative thinker. How do we get a valid traditional support for the Ogun who mould bones? I believe this is new. I think this claim is premeditated by a story you have created. And really, your story exposes your poor logic and scientific understanding. Calcium is Iron, iron is ogun? That's incredible. I don't know where you get that from, but its plainly wrong.

Calcium is an element just like iron. For instance, Calcium has different mass number and atomic number which is different from iron. Calcium is calcium (Ca) and iron is iron (Fe). Both have different electronic configurations and their nuclear proton and neutron varies as well. Not the same in chemical property to start with. So, how could two different things still be the same thing?

And the "ogun been refer to in creation story" itself looks familiar, its like plagiarizing the passage of the scripture revealed to Ezekiel about a place called "valley of dry bones". So the creation story simply resembles causing senew to cover those dry bones for ogun to take the credit. My bros, that's just another misconception of evolution. Please get your facts right bro.

In your mind, Calcium is the building brick of life, how then you also alludes to evolution? I don't know how to harmonize this complex claims. If Calcium is the building brick of life as you have insinuated, then how did "calcium atom" evolve to "Calcium cell" or, how did an atom evolve to life? It takes a quantum leap for a mineral (calcium) to become organic (life) and you have some good explanations to make.

Please don't always pretend like Ifa has all the answers and have saved you of all analytics, explanations and quotations you'll ever encounter anyday, once you say it says one thing or the other somewhere about something that you believe to be true. kindly endeavour to have a distinct voice of your own, Ifa is an achiever already, tryna achieve too. That's my 2 cents.

Lest I forget, Ogun is said to be "god of iron" even though orisha is not parrallel to god, the Yoruba who introduce us to ogun says of him, lakaye, oshin mole. Which one of his praise evoke calcium that its important to ascribe calcium to Ogun? fixing two unlikely data together for a story and not quoting any valid, time tested tradition to buttress your claim is forgery and lying and deception for credits and reputation.

To understand what Isokun is, we need to analyze the whole panegyric and some Ifa verses that mentioned the it. That way, we will be able to conclude if the place is existent or mystical

So, you did none of this analysis in all the treatise above? Talk of 'much ado about nothing'. None of your claims adds up traditionally or scientifically.

ladionline:


Bro, you can't give a conclusion on a subject matter that you have not demonstrated any expertise. Please endeavour to share the stories you are alluding to in their original form sir. That done, you can then establish your authority on Yoruba folktale with ease. and again, not just that, telling us what is impossible is like masking what is impossible to you and infusing us with your confusions.

"Ogbon o pin sibikan", says Yoruba, what shouldn't be deciphered literally by you could be done by another person to arrive at the message: oun to koju senikan, eyin lo ko selomii biilu gangan. And how do one make sense in a message you cannot decipher to ultimately come to the conclusion that a message is already passed across?



In Iwori Meji, ifa says and I quote:

"Oro kii gbaaro, ka fi ale so, adia fun okoko niyele, ti yoo bani tule yiwo.
Nigbati Olodumare seda eniyan sile aye, won o ribi gbe, nitori ogede omi lo kun ile aye"

From the above, we see example of how to quote source to establish clear inference without interpolations of data from third party, not how to allege that somewhere a point in obscurity (evolution) was alluded to in a verse in obscurity (Ifa) making the inference deduced from both obscure sources, a resounding fact. So, what is okokoniyele in the creation story above?

In scientific analysis of data, Ifa and evolution did not become a fact, its analysis of the claims deduced from both school of thought that one harness to make a point: meanwhile, Ifa was actually alluding to reverse-evolution, where one of the twins became ape, not where ape became one of the twins. The verse being referred is Odu ejilaesebora. You can share the Ifa-evolution piece to buttress your point.

So, by your standard, where osun was said to have become "aguntan" in Yoruba tradition, it means we branch out to those quadrupeds in evolution too? Just now you told us not to take the word of Ifa literally and that's exactly what you just do in a purposefully confusing way.



You are not an analyst, you are a reformer: you pick what others have shared and creates a brand new problem and produces a tailor-made solution to it.



Bro, you are a creative thinker. How do we get a valid traditional support for the Ogun who mould bones? I believe this is new. I think this claim is premeditated by a story you have created. And really, your story exposes your poor logic and scientific understanding. Calcium is Iron, iron is ogun? That's incredible. I don't know where you get that from, but its plainly wrong.

Calcium is an element just like iron. For instance, Calcium has different mass number and atomic number which is different from iron. Calcium is calcium (Ca) and iron is iron (Fe). Both have different electronic configurations and their nuclear proton and neutron varies as well. Not the same in chemical property to start with. So, how could two different things still be the same thing?

And the "ogun been refer to in creation story" itself looks familiar, its like plagiarizing the passage of the scripture revealed to Ezekiel about a place called "valley of dry bones". So the creation story simply resembles causing senew to cover those dry bones for ogun to take the credit. My bros, that's just another misconception of evolution. Please get your facts right bro.

In your mind, Calcium is the building brick of life, how then you also alludes to evolution? I don't know how to harmonize this complex claims. If Calcium is the building brick of life as you have insinuated, then how did "calcium atom" evolve to "Calcium cell" or, how did an atom evolve to life? It takes a quantum leap for a mineral (calcium) to become organic (life) and you have some good explanations to make.

Please don't always pretend like Ifa has all the answers and have saved you of all analytics, explanations and quotations you'll ever encounter anyday, once you say it says one thing or the other somewhere about something that you believe to be true. kindly endeavour to have a distinct voice of your own, Ifa is an achiever already, tryna achieve too. That's my 2 cents.

Lest I forget, Ogun is said to be "god of iron" even though orisha is not parrallel to god, the Yoruba who introduce us to ogun says of him, lakaye, oshin mole. Which one of his praise evoke calcium that its important to ascribe calcium to Ogun? fixing two unlikely data together for a story and not quoting any valid, time tested tradition to buttress your claim is forgery and lying and deception for credits and reputation.



So, you did none of this analysis in all the treatise above? Talk of 'much ado about nothing'. None of your claims adds up traditionally or scientifically.

Hmmm,I didn't see this coming but it is quite educative. So I say, more wisdom Sir from above.

ladionline:


Bro, you can't give a conclusion on a subject matter that you have not demonstrated any expertise. Please endeavour to share the stories you are alluding to in their original form sir. That done, you can then establish your authority on Yoruba folktale with ease. and again, not just that, telling us what is impossible is like masking what is impossible to you and infusing us with your confusions.

"Ogbon o pin sibikan", says Yoruba, what shouldn't be deciphered literally by you could be done by another person to arrive at the message: oun to koju senikan, eyin lo ko selomii biilu gangan. And how do one make sense in a message you cannot decipher to ultimately come to the conclusion that a message is already passed across?



In Iwori Meji, ifa says and I quote:

"Oro kii gbaaro, ka fi ale so, adia fun okoko niyele, ti yoo bani tule yiwo.
Nigbati Olodumare seda eniyan sile aye, won o ribi gbe, nitori ogede omi lo kun ile aye"

From the above, we see example of how to quote source to establish clear inference without interpolations of data from third party, not how to allege that somewhere a point in obscurity (evolution) was alluded to in a verse in obscurity (Ifa) making the inference deduced from both obscure sources, a resounding fact. So, what is okokoniyele in the creation story above?

In scientific analysis of data, Ifa and evolution did not become a fact, its analysis of the claims deduced from both school of thought that one harness to make a point: meanwhile, Ifa was actually alluding to reverse-evolution, where one of the twins became ape, not where ape became one of the twins. The verse being referred is Odu ejilaesebora. You can share the Ifa-evolution piece to buttress your point.

So, by your standard, where osun was said to have become "aguntan" in Yoruba tradition, it means we branch out to those quadrupeds in evolution too? Just now you told us not to take the word of Ifa literally and that's exactly what you just do in a purposefully confusing way.



You are not an analyst, you are a reformer: you pick what others have shared and creates a brand new problem and produces a tailor-made solution to it.



Bro, you are a creative thinker. How do we get a valid traditional support for the Ogun who mould bones? I believe this is new. I think this claim is premeditated by a story you have created. And really, your story exposes your poor logic and scientific understanding. Calcium is Iron, iron is ogun? That's incredible. I don't know where you get that from, but its plainly wrong.

Calcium is an element just like iron. For instance, Calcium has different mass number and atomic number which is different from iron. Calcium is calcium (Ca) and iron is iron (Fe). Both have different electronic configurations and their nuclear proton and neutron varies as well. Not the same in chemical property to start with. So, how could two different things still be the same thing?

And the "ogun been refer to in creation story" itself looks familiar, its like plagiarizing the passage of the scripture revealed to Ezekiel about a place called "valley of dry bones". So the creation story simply resembles causing senew to cover those dry bones for ogun to take the credit. My bros, that's just another misconception of evolution. Please get your facts right bro.

In your mind, Calcium is the building brick of life, how then you also alludes to evolution? I don't know how to harmonize this complex claims. If Calcium is the building brick of life as you have insinuated, then how did "calcium atom" evolve to "Calcium cell" or, how did an atom evolve to life? It takes a quantum leap for a mineral (calcium) to become organic (life) and you have some good explanations to make.

Please don't always pretend like Ifa has all the answers and have saved you of all analytics, explanations and quotations you'll ever encounter anyday, once you say it says one thing or the other somewhere about something that you believe to be true. kindly endeavour to have a distinct voice of your own, Ifa is an achiever already, tryna achieve too. That's my 2 cents.

Lest I forget, Ogun is said to be "god of iron" even though orisha is not parrallel to god, the Yoruba who introduce us to ogun says of him, lakaye, oshin mole. Which one of his praise evoke calcium that its important to ascribe calcium to Ogun? fixing two unlikely data together for a story and not quoting any valid, time tested tradition to buttress your claim is forgery and lying and deception for credits and reputation.



So, you did none of this analysis in all the treatise above? Talk of 'much ado about nothing'. None of your claims adds up traditionally or scientifically.

Waoh. Kilode...you know me before? See brutality.

I have dropped the topic and forgotten about it. Thanks Baba for bringing this up again.

Urrrrggg where do we start

Please tell us about Isokun... We can discuss Ogun/calcium been metal on a new thread. Thank you

Isokun is in Oyo. History verbally transferred has it that a family were living in Isokun about the time where killing of twins was the custom in Oyo empire. The then Isokun wasn't under the empire, and this couple had twins. In that they weren't home, they were confused as to whether they should kill or keep them.
Upon consulting Ifa, they were ordered to keep them while the mother danced round the town with them every five days. People pitied her and started giving her money everytime she did. This made the family rich and people began to believe the twins brought them good fortune, which explains the line in their eulogy ' O wole alakisa so won do nigba aso'
News actually got to Oyo empire about the happenings and it led to the custom of letting twins live.
They however had a child after which they called Idowu...

FOLYKAZE:


Waoh. Kilode...you know me before? See brutality.

I have dropped the topic and forgotten about it. Thanks Baba for bringing this up again.

Urrrrggg where do we start

Please tell us about Isokun... We can discuss Ogun/calcium been metal on a new thread. Thank you

If you are expecting anything from those 3, forget it

People that should be taken care of in a psychiatric ward

Isokun is Isaac
These fools actually do not know that Isaac is just English transliteration where it is actually supposed to be Yishach. So the question should be what concerns Isokun with Yishach (which BTW means He who laughs)