buzugee:

like i said, you are not luring anybody back with this pie in the sky project. the only thing that will lure people back are
1, good roads
2, well policed streets, where the police are paid well, no need for bribes, they have patrol cars with sirens and a number you can call for effective service if something happens
3, 24 hr electricity with no interruptions
4, good universities
5, steady water supply

Eko Atlantic will provide most of these things. Depending on how much it costs to live there (either buy property cash down or rent) and what type of job offers (namely salary) I can get when I graduate, EA would be enough to convince me to move back to Nigeria.

There is something very important psychologically (at least for me) about living in a world-class place. If you build it in Nigeria, I will go. And I doubt I'm the only person thinking this way.

buzugee said:

You've no idea what you're talking about. Already as we speak, firms around the globe are laying their stake on Eko Atlantic, and you're here saying no new jobs will be created? I really don't know where to start with you. 

Nigeria is a developing nation. We can and do produce electricity, roads, water and universities, so do not misrepresent us. Not to everyone's complete satisfaction as of yet, but still no reason not to improve and expand our economy. You do realise this project is private sector driven?


No one is talking about ''vacationing in Nigeria''. Ever heard the words ''business'' and ''commerce''?

And if Eko Atlantic becomes what is envisaged, it WILL draw tourists and visitors.


all you are getting will be capital transfer from one person to another. no net gain

Tinapa has NOT gone under. It is in fact starting to shape up there, with more retail outlets setting up shop by the week. Abuja was a huge p[roject that's turned out pretty succesfully, so yes, huge projects can and will succeed in Nigeria. In Lagos, a city wide rail network is under construction as we speak. That too will be a success.

Tell that to the Indians.

Do those basic essentials include jobs? If so, where will the JOBS come from without these sort of private sector initiatives? You want everyone to work as a barber, tailor, or truckpusher from their backyard?

Ok fine. You provide 24 hour electricity and fantastic roads everywhere, ignoring economic development. Then what? How does that allow Mr A who just graduated with no job to find a job? Since you failed to provide for economic expansion, where will the jobs come from?

You will simply end up like North Korea, a place with great roads but starving people led by a lunatic despot with no interest in economic development.

Do you realise that the mere construction of Eko Atlantic will provide employment opportunities to untold thousands of Nigerians for countless years into the future?


firms around the world ? you mean 'predators, shysters, exploiters and opportunists' around the world ? i laugh in spanish. we shall see this all play out. and then you can come back to this thread and say 'wow' buzugee predicted it.

Don't forget that the Asian tigers like South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia etc started their journey to industrialisation as outposts of western capitalist  expansion, effected by western 'predators, opportunists etc', yet look at the Asian Tigers today.

We CAN make this work.

what you guys have to understand here is that you are building a SERVICE industry. you are not building a manufacturing industry. a service industry is dependent on 'punters' and not on foreign investors. the big sell will be convincing the world that this is the place to be. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE MONEY. the question is will the world buy into it ?

ROSSIKE:

buzugee said:


Don't forget that the Asian tigers like South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia etc started their journey to industrialisation  as outposts of western capitalist  expansion, effected by western 'predators, opportunists etc', yet look at the Asian Tigers today.

We CAN make this work.

so you are comparing south korea, singapore and malaysia to nigeria ? now i know you are just arguing for argument sake. have you been to those places ? they look better than the western world. if you misappropriate govt funds into your own account in those places, even something as little as 1000 naira, you will face the firing squad. they are fiercely patriotic from the govt officials down to the man on the street. are you seriously comparing nigeria to these places ?   plus it doesnt hurt that they have skin that somewhat looks white and hence white people feel safer going there to blow their dough. their hospitals are world class, their roads are perfect, its the perfect tourist and business destination.

DapoBear:

Eko Atlantic will provide most of these things. Depending on how much it costs to live there (either buy property cash down or rent) and what type of job offers (namely salary) I can get when I graduate, EA would be enough to convince me to move back to Nigeria.

There is something very important psychologically (at least for me) about living in a world-class place. If you build it in Nigeria, I will go. And I doubt I'm the only person thinking this way.

this is an argument between you and yourself. trying to include the rest of the world in it is preposterous. trying to convince yourself that you will go is all well and good considering you are nigerian and rich (if you can afford it ). the question is how many people like you will it take to keep this place 'functioning' and how many people are out there like you ? (very miniscule ). you gotta remember now that nigeria is not a 'user-friendly country'

buzugee:

this is an argument between you and yourself. trying to include the rest of the world in it is preposterous. trying to convince yourself that you will go is all well and good considering you are nigerian and rich (if you can afford it ). the question is how many people like you will it take to keep this place 'functioning' and how many people are out there like you ? (very miniscule ). you gotta remember now that nigeria is not a 'user-friendly country'

I am not at all rich, dude. I'm actually relatively poorish now. But I know what the market rate of my services will be in 1.5 years or so when I finish graduate school. If I can find a job in Nigeria that can pay something close to this market rate, I'll be happy to move back. If not, then I'll investigate starting my own company to earn something close to this #. And I think there are lots of Nigerians abroad who are in a similar position, who would like to move back to Nigeria if they could, but aren't interested in running a loud generator all day, moving from very nice cities/suburbs to the generally subpar infrastructure in Nigeria.

DapoBear:

I am not at all rich, dude. I'm actually relatively poorish now. But I know what the market rate of my services will be in 1.5 years or so when I finish graduate school. If I can find a job in Nigeria that can pay something close to this market rate, I'll be happy to move back. If not, then I'll investigate starting my own company to earn something close to this #. And I think there are lots of Nigerians abroad who are in a similar position, who would like to move back to Nigeria if they could, but aren't interested in running a loud generator all day, moving from very nice cities/suburbs to the generally subpar infrastructure in Nigeria.

i hear you loud and clear. me myself ? i would love to go home someday. the state of infrastructure will not phase me because i plan to live, work and send my kids to school all within the same block  i aint driving to no work. my work will be in my house (maybe i will become a auto-mechanic and i will fix all the cars in my big backyard ? jus sayin. but yeah when i come home everythin i do has to be on one strreet or at most, walking distance. as per water ? i can hook myself up. light ? i can hook myself up too. so my life will be easy, relaxed and enjoyable. everybody around me is black, house paid for, work from home. what else do i want right ?

maybe i can export one of those crane things and install it in my pad in nigeria. hook up and outfit an american style auto repair shop in my backyard. and the only cars i will fix will be range rovers and mercedes i know someone in chicago with that plan. he is in auto-mechanic school

buzugee said:


Don't forget that the Asian tigers like South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia etc started their journey to industrialisation  as outposts of western capitalist  expansion, effected by western 'predators, opportunists etc', yet look at the Asian Tigers today.

We CAN make this work.


so you are comparing south korea, singapore and malaysia to nigeria?

Err, ''comparing them'' is not the approriate term to use in the context of my post. Re-read what I posted and try to understand.

have you been to those places ? they look better than the western world.

Their development is a very recent phenomenon, the reasons for which I gave earlier. In the 1950s South Korea was no more developed than Gambia.

if you misappropriate govt funds into your own account in those places, even something as little as 1000 naira, you will face the firing squad.

I've no idea where you get these false and wild claims. South Korea is embroiled in all sorts of corruption scandals as we speak:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/nov2000/kor-n09.shtml

As for Malaysia, far from rogues getting the ''firing squad'', corruption there is actually skyrocketing at an alarming rate:

Malaysia suffered a major blow in terms of combating corruption today when it fell to its worst ranking and score in 15 years in Transparency International’s corruption perception index for 2009. In the ranking which was revealed today Malaysia plunged nine places from last year’s 47th CPI ranking to 56th position.

At the same time, Malaysia’s CPI index score plunged to the lowest in 15 years to 4.5. It's previous worst scores below 5 were 4.8 in 2000 and 4.9 in 2002. Malaysia has been continuously sliding down in the TI index since it best ever placing of 33 in 2002

http://dinmerican./2009/11/17/worst-ranking-for-malaysia-on-tis-corruption-perception-index/

they are fiercely patriotic from the govt officials down to the man on the street.

Not according to the facts I just posted.      

plus it doesnt hurt that they have skin that somewhat looks white and hence white people feel safer going there to blow their dough.

Eko Atlantic is not dependent for its success on whites going there to ''blow their dough''.

their hospitals are world class, their roads are perfect, its the perfect tourist and business destination.

That happened AFTER the great western injection of investment and capital there, and a corresponding opening of western markets to their manufactures, as a bulwark against communism in the 1950s. Prior to the west's decision to transform that region of the world, they lived in penury and tyranny. There's really no great mystery as to why that region developed as quickly and dramatically as it did in under 30 years.

There's no hiding the fact that as of today, the USA is a developed country, and Nigeria a developing one.

So YES, we want to create a New York in Lagos. Absolutely!!

What does demonstrate low self esteem in my view is the unfounded idea that we cannot do it, or that we somehow don't deserve such facilities.

This seems to be YOUR unspoken position, suggesting that YOU may be the one burdened by such feelings.

Well its Ok, we hope the project goes completed and not left behind as our Nature in this country.Ok unless the western world will laugh at our ass once more, But there is one mistake.Never compare that City to [b]NEW YORK[/b]men if na that one i no gree it can never reach NYC Half self, Ok, I dont care if Eko atlantic city is built on Gold

@Rossike: Great post.

ROSSIKE:

Err, ''comparing them'' is not the approriate term to use in the context of my post. Re-read what I posted and try to understand.


Their development is a very recent phenomenon, the reasons for which I gave earlier. In the 1950s South Korea was no more developed than Gambia.


I've no idea where you get these false and wild claims. South Korea is embroiled in all sorts of corruption scandals as we speak:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/nov2000/kor-n09.shtml

As for Malaysia, far from rogues getting the ''firing squad'', corruption there is actually skyrocketing at an alarming rate:

Malaysia suffered a major blow in terms of combating corruption today when it fell to its worst ranking and score in 15 years in Transparency International’s corruption perception index for 2009. In the ranking which was revealed today Malaysia plunged nine places from last year’s 47th CPI ranking to 56th position.

At the same time, Malaysia’s CPI index score plunged to the lowest in 15 years to 4.5. It's previous worst scores below 5 were 4.8 in 2000 and 4.9 in 2002. Malaysia has been continuously sliding down in the TI index since it best ever placing of 33 in 2002

http://dinmerican./2009/11/17/worst-ranking-for-malaysia-on-tis-corruption-perception-index/


Not according to the facts I just posted.      

Eko Atlantic is not dependent for its success on whites going there to ''blow their dough''.


That happened AFTER the great western injection of investment and capital there, and a corresponding opening of western markets to their manufactures, as a bulwark against communism in the 1950s. Prior to the west's decision to transform that region of the world, they lived in penury and tyranny. There's really no great mystery as to why that region developed as quickly and dramatically as it did in under 30 years.

all fluff. it shall all unfold before your eyes. if you are building a SERVICE industry you better make sure you have a 'user friendly country'
all those countries you mentioned are very user friendly. look at singapore http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1C1SKPC_enUS333US333&q=singapore&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1400&bih=955

lagos nigeria http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1C1SKPC_enUS333US333&q=lagos%20nigeria&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1400&bih=955

malaysia http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1C1SKPC_enUS333US333&q=malaysia&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1400&bih=955

nigeria aint ready to play in the big leagues. step your game up son. get your weight up then come back and say something. till then ? work on your infrastructure and shut the hell up. tryna run before crawling

the above comment is for lagos by the way. not you

south korea http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1C1SKPC_enUS333US333&q=south%20korea&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1400&bih=955 get your weight up son.

step your game up son http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/2600537

move your weight up son http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/2006/06/forgotten_urban.html

but how soon,i hope our generation would live to see these.

i well that will be cool when finished.but off cause off-limits for the middle class,

Kobojunkie:

A town you will probably won't be able to afford on even 10 year's salary? ROFLMAO!!!


just joking ooo . . .  ROFLMAO!!

Right back at you, Junkie.  Ase.  ROFLMAO!!  On your head.  ROFLMAO!!

We don't want people with such negative attitude infecting Lagos anyway.    ROFLMAO!!

Saw a brief documentary on it some time back. It is an interesting development and I believe it is a step in the right direction for Lagos. Hope the apartments won't be too expensive

So many negative minded individuals are selling their fears and septicisms for free here, but am not buying any.

How can people be asking kindergatten questions here as if lands have not been reclaimed from coastal areas all over the world before. These are being handled by professional project managers and the blue print has been designed, with all the requisite EIA done.

This is a welcome development that will open up employment and expand the city as well. Bring it on Fash and co.
Let's have our own 21st century city, you guys are not even considering the tourism revenues that will be generated from this venture.

Every big project must start as a dream in someone's heart first.

Who  ever brought this idea of developing Eko Atlantic is a demon,what a waste of time,energy and hard earn money? Why do human want  to challenge God and Nature? Do people think they can stop the ocean?? Why not go to other parts of Lagos State and built this nice city which i have seen the pictures? Or is lagos state only Victoria Island?

No amount of contruction can stop the ocean from coming where is already coming,even if all the architects  of the worlds are to come together to build this,I pity those who will live there as their residential area and work there as their offices,as they will be asleep or at work when the  ocean will come and carry them all away.

Visionless people.

You have badagry,yaba,epe,yet you want to live near the sea,are you a FISH??

^^^^^
You better mind your occultism, guy.

You know nothing about engineering, and you are not ready to learn. Crawl back into your dark hole asap     

hope this is not someone dream?







www.secretstogreatrelationship..com

ROSSIKE:

buzugee said:


You've no idea what you're talking about. Already as we speak, firms around the globe are laying their stake on Eko Atlantic, and you're here saying no new jobs will be created? I really don't know where to start with you.  

Nigeria is a developing nation. We can and do produce electricity, roads, water and universities, so do not misrepresent us. Not to everyone's complete satisfaction as of yet, but still no reason not to improve and expand our economy. You do realise this project is private sector driven?


No one is talking about ''vacationing in Nigeria''. Ever heard the words ''business'' and ''commerce''?

And if Eko Atlantic becomes what is envisaged, it WILL draw tourists and visitors.



Tinapa has NOT gone under. It is in fact starting to shape up there, with more retail outlets setting up shop by the week. Abuja was a huge project that's turned out pretty succesfully, so yes, huge projects can and will succeed in Nigeria. In Lagos, a city wide rail network is under construction as we speak. That too will be a success.

Tell that to the Indians.

Do those basic essentials include jobs? If so, where will the JOBS come from without these sort of private sector initiatives? You want everyone to work as a barber, tailor, or truckpusher from their backyard?

Ok fine. You provide 24 hour electricity and fantastic roads everywhere, ignoring economic development. Then what? How does that allow Mr A who just graduated with no job to find a job? Since you failed to provide for economic expansion, where will the jobs come from?

You will simply end up like North Korea, a place with great roads but starving people led by a lunatic despot with no interest in economic development.

Do you realise that the mere construction of Eko Atlantic will provide employment opportunities to untold thousands of Nigerians for countless years into the future?

your points here are very analytical and useful, but i doubt will it ever materialize considering the naija factor.

@ ROSSIKE and dapobear- you guys are on point. very good defence on your POV. eko o ni baje o. life is about how you look at it. some will always look at a glass half empty while others look at the same glass half full.

digressing a lil bit. back in 1994 a friends dad passed on the opportunity to own dirt cheap plots of land in lekki phase 1. his reasons were the usual [bar beach has problems so lekki too would]. he could have gotten them for hundreds of thousands then. the guy who practically begged him to invest bought a few, as as we are debating here already has his pension rapped up for the rest of his days. all he did was partition the land and sell it in bits. he currently has a portfolio of over 100 million [ in land alone]. not to talk of built property.

my friends dad, well he tells the sad story to anyone who cares to listen. so my people some will support eko atlantic, invest, someday reap the rewards. others will bash criticise, and be average. never taking risk, or by the time they are ready to invest the money they drop is astronomically high. magodo, same thing, in 1994 where was magodo?

Am happy with these, I look forward to Dubai in Nigeria and to owning an estate there.

dapobear

i read a couple of your posts and just knew u had to be in graduate school or a google junkie.

anyways not wanting to sound too academic,mark my words if you have any common sense,this is a crap project that cannot be managed by lagos or nigeria.the world is in a coma and trust me the financial landscape internationally is too lethargic for eko atlantic city.this project is a white elephant that will require more than a miracle to have started fetal life by 2020.

i am beyond grad school and in my world of real international monetary flow and global finance,eko atlantic is a no no

think eko atlantic,think dubai,think portugal,think spain and not at the level of a cnn or bbc story.go to the heart of the matter and u go see say this one naa comic relief gbaaaaaaaaaaaaa.u lot that live in the developed world that are talking crap need history lessons in business and the growth of modern cities.

how can anyone compare lagos and any of the asian tigers?how can a morally bankrupt city with a world renowned intellectual deficit sustain this kind of project?where is the supporting infrastucture that will act as the placenta to this baby?how are they solving congestion without any new bridge in 20 years?where is the bloody money gonna come from.it is not enough that work is goingon now,but will there be work on that mirage in a year or two.this is the biggest government backed fraud and mark my words,una just begin wash fimmm.

by the way,ask richard branson if he ever redeemed his commitment for great britain in 'the world' islands off dubai's coast ?


some

Old boy, let them talk anything dey like. People like me believe in your dream and we are hoping it will happen to this city one day, at least for our next generation.

Ride on, We support you, but let's think about Electricity first ooooooooooo

lol

lol