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Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. - Religion - Nairaland

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Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by Kgdavid(m): 5:27pm On Jan 10, 2011
This article is not an attack on the Christian faith but rather an attempt to walk in the freedom Christ has given us.



Arguably one of the most controversial issues in Christianity today is the question of whether to pay a regular tithe or not. A tithe as described in the bible or as practiced in modern day Christianity is the regular payment to a church of a tenth of ones earnings or income. Modern day churches particularly Pentecostal churches are the main advocates of this teaching which has led to their being labeled commercial. But let us take an in-depth look into the principle of tithing beginning with its origin. The Israelites were indeed commanded by God to pay tithes. Leviticus 27:30, 32 makes it clear that “a tenth of everything from the land belongs to the Lord”. The verse goes on to clarify that whether it be livestock or plants, a tenth was to be given unto the Lord. A very important and recurring theme picked out of this verse is the fact that the tithe was purely agricultural. At this time there was a relatively sophisticated monetary system with tangible money in use so it’s rather interesting that God never asked for a tithe on money.

A look at Deut 27:30,32 shows two critical points one of which seems to have been totally ignored in the tithe debate. The tithe had a specific time frame! This verse clearly says that the Israelites were to give their tithe in “the third year”- the year of the tithe. So where then is the scriptural basis for demanding a regular monthly tithe even if Christians were mandated to pay tithes at all? There is no such backing in the scriptures. The second point that we note from this verse is that the tithe had specific recipients. Verse 12 says that the tithe was to be given to the Levites, the alien, the orphan and the widow. These exact four categories of tithe recipients are repeated in verse14 of the same chapter. This shows an emphasis on the specific groups of people to benefit from tithe. Interestingly this list does not include pastors. Sure, some would argue that todays pastors are symbolic Levites but there are a few reasons why this line of thinking simply is not rational. Firstly if the structures of the Old Testament temple and the modern day church are held to be parallel and equivalent (which they are not) then the rank of pastor is actually not equivalent to that of the Levite but rather to that of the priest. As we have already seen in the scriptures, the priests were not entitled to any allocation from the tithe and therefore even if the church was to claim to be the symbolic temple, the pastor, the symbolic priest, is not entitled to a tithe.

In any case, the Old Testament temple and the modern day church are not at all similar institutions either by protocols or scripture. Since Jesus came and fulfilled the law, Christians do not live subject to the law but rather in obedience to the Holy Spirit. In the New Testament we are told that our bodies are the temples of God and Jesus is our high priest. There are now no Levites. Interestingly, tithes are mentioned just once in the New Testament any without any direct bearing to the importance of tithing in Christianity. In Matt 23:23 Jesus condemns the Pharisees for giving a tenth of their spices while neglecting the weightier matters of the law. This verse has now been bandied as proof that Jesus endorsed tithing since He said the Pharisee should have practiced it without neglecting the other issues. However it is important to note that at the time of this incident Jesus had not yet died and thus Christianity was not yet being practiced and therefore the Jews were still required to live by the law. More critically, observe that the tithe the Pharisee was quoted as giving was again agricultural in nature i.e. spices. The Pharisee also paid his tithe not to any church but to the temple. Therefore if this incident is proof that Jesus endorsed tithing, then it also follows that He endorsed tithing to the temple which of course would be normal at that time. After Jesus died and the law passed away (another topic entirely) the church was formed with a different structure from the temple without being the replacement for the temple. All teachings on giving during this period focus on whole hearted free will giving. So in conclusion I am saying that tithing is NOT a requirement for Christians and even if it was it is been done in a totally wrong way. However giving still forms a large part of Christian life.
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by Dulcet7(m): 7:08pm On Jan 10, 2011
I think all the support for tithing is in Leveticus and Deuteronomy. A number of reputable theologians (some claim to be Christian) believe Leveticus and Deuteronomy are likely forgeries inserted into the Old Testament by the ancient Jews to foster internal political power through religious influence.

These same theologians believe Moses wrote most of Genesis and part of Exodus and may have written some parts of Numbers too but didn't write those 2 books before and after Numbers.

However I think tithing is part of an exclusive belief system by Christians. Non-Christians are not insiders so they probably only have a right to observe silently - therefore - I probably should not be on this thread. smiley
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by Nobody: 7:33pm On Jan 10, 2011
What about malachi 3?
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by Kgdavid(m): 8:08pm On Jan 10, 2011
toba:

What about malachi 3?

yea mr Toba what about it?
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by Nobody: 8:14pm On Jan 10, 2011
it should be added to Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

l have a contrary view but will post tomorrow on it
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by Dulcet7(m): 8:20pm On Jan 10, 2011
toba:

What about malachi 3?
Oops my bad. I forgot Malachi smiley
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by KunleOshob(m): 9:50am On Jan 11, 2011
toba:

What about malachi 3?

Yeah Malachi 3 the most fraudulently manipulated chapter in the bible which has been used to fleece the faithful gullible on a consistent basis for hundreds of years.
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by nuella2(f): 10:56am On Jan 11, 2011
KunleOshob:

Yeah Malachi 3 the most fraudulently manipulated chapter in the bible which has been used to fleece the faithful gullible on a consistent basis for hundreds of years.

And you believe you can stop christians from tithing by posting on nairaland? You want to teach another man's member what to do, why dont you win souls and then start with them, indoctrinate them. Teach them tithing is not for the christian,such pple can spread across the world and stop tithing na, dont you think so? You talk so much about what is done wrongly in churches but do nothing apart from talking. If you want a change, why dont you BE THAT CHANGE. Let others copy from you, if you do that posterity will remember the KUNLE of Nigeria that saw something wrong and changed it by doing so and so, not just talk and talk. Everyday you are abusing and complaining about a church or man of God. You kunle what have you done that people will remember you for? What have you done with christianity? ARE YOU Building it or Destroying it?
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by Kgdavid(m): 12:42pm On Jan 11, 2011
nuella2:

And you believe you can stop christians from tithing by posting on nairaland? You want to teach another man's member what to do, why dont you win souls and then start with them, indoctrinate them. Teach them tithing is not for the christian,such pple can spread across the world and stop tithing na, dont you think so? You talk so much about what is done wrongly in churches but do nothing apart from talking. If you want a change, why dont you BE THAT CHANGE. Let others copy from you, if you do that posterity will remember the KUNLE of Nigeria that saw something wrong and changed it by doing so and so, not just talk and talk. Everyday you are abusing and complaining about a church or man of God. You kunle what have you done that people will remember you for? What have you done with christianity? ARE YOU Building it or Destroying it?

i think this little phrase here represents what is so terribly wrong with the pentecostal system rtoday, since when do you claim ownership of the souls under ur temporary stewardship?? the position of pastor has been grossly exaggerated.
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by nuella2(f): 1:22pm On Jan 11, 2011
oga David read Heb 13v17, Heb13v7

You are to be submitted to your pastor, you follow him like Paul instructed timothy to follow him.
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by Kgdavid(m): 1:46pm On Jan 11, 2011
that verse simply says we should emulate those who came before(moses, abraham etc) and paul instructed timothy to follow his example as he followed Jesus's but does that mean timothy now belonged to paul? paul said "For I have been informed about you, my brethren, by those of the house of Chloe, that there are strifes among you. Now this is what I mean: each of you says, I am of Paul, or I am of Apollos, or I am of Cephas, or I am of Christ. Has Christ been divided up?" 1 cor 1 11-13
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by nuella2(f): 1:57pm On Jan 11, 2011
I didnt say they belong to the pastor like a property, my point is, a member is suppose to submit to his own pastor. You dont follow every pastor around. Thats why Paul instructed Paul to follow  only him, even though he has plenty instructors, he(paul) is his only father because he begat him.1corin4v15.

Why didnt you read the other scriptures i quoted in Heb 13v17 and Heb 13v7.
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by ogajim(m): 2:21pm On Jan 11, 2011
nuella2:

I didnt say they belong to the pastor like a property, my point is, a member is suppose to submit to his own pastor. You dont follow every pastor around. Thats why Paul instructed Paul to follow  only him, even though he has plenty instructors, he(paul) is his only father because he begat him.1corin4v15.

Why didnt you read the other scriptures i quoted in Heb 13v17 and Heb 13v7.

What happened to "test every spirit"? You will follow your pastor even if he is leading you to the opposite side? Good Christians are BEREAN Christians and don't hang on to every word they hear from the pulpit without VALIDATION from the Scriptures.
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by nuella2(f): 2:28pm On Jan 11, 2011
ogajim:

What happened to "test every spirit"? You will follow your pastor even if he is leading you to the opposite side? Good Christians are BEREAN Christians and don't hang on to every word they hear from the pulpit without VALIDATION from the Scriptures.

You didnt test his spirit before you started following him? Did the bible say you should test your pastor's spirit or instructors abi intruders. How did timothy test paul's spirit brother? tell me?
Re: Tithes Again! A Detailed Debate With New Arguments Shedding A Different Light. by garyarnold(m): 7:16pm On Jan 11, 2011
NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE pays the Biblical tithe today.

THREE DIFFERENT TITHES WITH THREE DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS WITH THREE DIFFERENT PURPOSES:

Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18: The First Tithe - a tenth of crops and animals and commanded to take the tithe to the Levites. CROPS AND ANIMALS. Used to support the Levites. The Levites were commanded to take a tenth of the tithe to the priests to assist in their support.

Deuteronomy 14:22-27: The Second Tithe aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast. CROPS plus the firstborn animals (not a tenth). For the yearly feast. Eaten by the tither, his family, and others including the Levites and the poor.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29: The Third Tithe aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat. CROPS. Eaten AT THE HOME OF the tither by the Levites, widows, orphans, etc.

The ONLY people in the Old Testament that were commanded to tithe were those who INHERITED THE PROMISED LAND WITH EVERYTHING ON IT. They got the land, house, animals, crops, etc. ALL FREE AND CLEAR. No mortgage payment or rent to pay. And THEY were commanded to tithe on the crops and animals and take it to the Levites who INHERITED the tithe INSTEAD OF the promised land with everything on it. No one else tithed. Wage earners did not tithe. Jesus didn’t tithe. Paul didn’t tithe. Peter didn’t tithe.

HOW CAN YOU COMPARE THAT WITH CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE TO PAY THEIR MORTGAGE PAYMENT OR RENT, INCOME TAXES, PROPERTY TAXES, SALES TAXES, ETC?

There is no way to justify making some “principle” out of the Biblical facts and then apply it to Christians today. It is just flat out wrong and makes no sense at all.

Let’s look at Malachi 3. First, who is God speaking to – the priests or the people?
We need to study the entire Book of Malachi rather than take a few verses out of context.

By the time we get to verse 6 in chapter 1, we see it is the priests that are being addressed at that point.

In both chapters 1 and 2 of Malachi there is a conversation going on between God and the priests. Every time the word "you" is used, it is referring to the priests. Chapter 3 continues with this conversation. In verse 5 God says "And I will come near to you to judgment…, " In the Old Testament, during this period of time and generally speaking, only the priests could get near to God. It is only in the New Testament that born again believers, you and I, can get close to God. So up to chapter 3 verse 5, God is speaking to the priests. The word "you" is still referring to the priests. There is nothing in the scripture to indicate this changes when you get to verse 8. But that's not all.

Read Numbers 18:29-30 and then read Malachi 1:14. Those verses explain robbing God of the offerings. The PRIESTS, not the people, robbed God of the offering by giving to God the worst instead of the best.

In Nehemiah 13 we are told that the priests stole the Levites portion of the tithe; therefore, they had no food to eat at the temple, and they went back to their own fields.

Therefore, taking the Levites portion of the tithe is the robbing God of the tithe. Or to put it another way, THE LEVITES WERE ROBBED. God said He was robbed because the tithe was not taken where God directed.

Next, in Malachi 3:10 God says to bring all the tithes to the storehouse. The people took the tithes to the Levites who lived in the Levitical cities, not to the temple. The Levites took the required tithe of the tithe to the temple. (See Nehemiah 10:37-38) Only those tithes ever made it to the temple. The priests then took those tithes to the storehouse. It only makes sense if God is speaking to the priests in this verse.

Since in Numbers 18 God makes it perfectly clear that the tithe belongs to Him, and He gave it to the Levites, anyone who takes God’s tithe to their local church must also be robbing God since the Levites are not the ones getting it.

I see no way around this. Either the tithe ended per Hebrews 7:18, OR those who take God’s tithe to their local church must be robbing God since God gave clear instructions where to take His tithe. There is nothing in God’s Word to show that God ever changed those instructions. Therefore, the only conclusion I can reach is that taking a tithe to your local church is NOT paying the tithe to God. It is giving it to man. Nowhere in God’s Word does He give permission for the Christian Church to receive His tithe.

Therefore, IT IS A SIN AGAINST GOD to take God’s tithe to your local church. IT IS A SIN for any pastor to accept God’s tithe.

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