budaatum:

That last paragraph encapsules my reason for being in the religious section. Ex-muslims and Christians mischaracterize the contents of the Quran and Bible then yell strawman when one disagree with their misunderstanding, but enlightened one's like you would eventually appear.

Tingz accuses me of insulting Muslims without realising its his own ignorance I am actually insulting for claiming to promote sceptism without realising he is not sceptical about his own supposed absolute knowledge, or, ignorance, to be precise, which makes him the zombie, though he'd not see he is. I can bet money on the fact that he'd completely miss the verses you quote above promoting sceptism, and claim Islam promotes zombeism. He does not see that the Quran is made the Word of God only if properly understood, otherwise it is the word of satan.

They can only be educated, I guess, though their actual learning is entirely up to them.

As for you, Allah continues to grow you in knowledge and wisdom, I see. For, I was going to repost mine you quoted hoping Tingz would get my point. But you've gone and done it for me with additions I knew not to include.

In fact one would encounter in the Qur'an prayers for granting of wisdom, increase in knowledge and also eloquence so people may have understanding of what is being said. I hope we all get this blessings...

I would say your posts are quite radical, and for me, I have learnt a new perspective with regards to scepticism, faith, and how to acknowledge certainty in faith. You don't just believe, you know...This actually brings me to the levels of faith as described by the Prophet (SAW) and the highest being that "you worship God as if you can see God..." And this is a level Muslims continuously strive for...

I agree they need to be educated, and this happens to be the reason some of us engage him and others.

budaatum:

That last paragraph encapsules my reason for being in the religious section. Ex-muslims and Christians mischaracterize the contents of the Quran and Bible then yell strawman when one disagree with their misunderstanding, but enlightened one's like you would eventually appear.

Tingz accuses me of insulting Muslims without realising its his own ignorance I am actually insulting for claiming to promote sceptism without realising he is not sceptical about his own supposed absolute knowledge, or, ignorance, to be precise, which makes him the zombie, though he'd not see he is. I can bet money on the fact that he'd completely miss the verses you quote above promoting sceptism, and claim Islam promotes zombeism. He does not see that the Quran is made the Word of God only if properly understood, otherwise it is the word of satan.

They can only be educated, I guess, though their actual learning is entirely up to them.

As for you, Allah continues to grow you in knowledge and wisdom, I see. For, I was going to repost mine you quoted hoping Tingz would get my point. But you've gone and done it for me with additions I knew not to include.

"the Quran is made the Word of God only if properly understood"?

WTH?

You're playing a very nasty game. What is the proper understanding of the Qur'an? Every Muslim have their own 'proper understanding' of Qur'an.

usermane:

Every Muslim have their own 'proper understanding' of Qur'an.

I agree. But there is only One Single Indubitable Most Mercifully Wise Allah.

See above as buda's 'proper understanding' of Qur'an.

sino:


In fact one would encounter in the Qur'an prayers for granting of wisdom, increase in knowledge and also eloquence so people may have understanding of what is being said. I hope we all get this blessings...

I would say your posts are quite radical, and for me, I have learnt a new perspective with regards to scepticism, faith, and how to acknowledge certainty in faith. You don't just believe, you know...This actually brings me to the levels of faith as described by the Prophet (SAW) and the highest being that "you worship God as if you can see God..." And this is a level Muslims continuously strive for...

I agree they need to be educated, and this happens to be the reason some of us engage him and others.

Define "faith"?

sino:


Yes and No...

Would you believe my No or would you doubt my Yes?!

Should there be a point when doubt becomes certainty?!

Allah (SWT) Says:

"The bedouins say: "We believe." Say: "You believe not but you only say, 'We have surrendered (in Islam),' for Faith has not yet entered your hearts. But if you obey Allah and His Messenger (SAW), He will not decrease anything in reward for your deeds. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 49:14)

Most conscious Muslims who came from Muslim background had one time or another had to embark on a journey of rediscovering Islam, they all have one thing in common, they had doubts....

Allah (SWT) Says:

"Only those are the believers who have believed in Allah and His Messenger, and afterward doubt not but strive with their wealth and their lives for the Cause of Allah. Those! They are the truthful." (Qur'an 49:15)

Doubts can only be eradicated by certainty, and you would only get this by being sincere with yourself, learning, seeking knowledge and understanding.

When something is certain, there's no need for doubt.

So, yes you are skeptical, good.

Let's test your skepticism.

Do you doubt Allah is the one transcending the universe?

budaatum:



.

Ok, in a nutshell you believe the Qur'an isn't the word of Allah.

Case close.

tintingz:


Ok, in a nutshell you believe the Qur'an isn't the word of Allah.

Case close.

That is what tintingz believes after all tintingz read.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcw_18x6n6A

I am saying, it is when you make it the Word of Allah.

budaatum:

That is what tintingz believes after all tintingz read.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcw_18x6n6A

I am saying, it is when you make it the Word of Allah.

Are you confused?

sino:

In fact one would encounter in the Qur'an prayers for granting of wisdom, increase in knowledge and also eloquence so people may have understanding of what is being said. I hope we all get this blessings...

I would say your posts are quite radical, and for me, I have learnt a new perspective with regards to scepticism, faith, and how to acknowledge certainty in faith. You don't just believe, you know...This actually brings me to the levels of faith as described by the Prophet (SAW) and the highest being that "you worship God as if you can see God..." And this is a level Muslims continuously strive for...

I agree they need to be educated, and this happens to be the reason some of us engage him and others.

I find it very amusing when people say they believe or do not believe in God but then refuse to understand a book about God or think they do understand it when they don't. I am saddened though at those who write the books off completely. Most don't think what their existence would be like if those very enlightening books did not exist, and they judge the post-book era they live in with no knowledge of the pre-book era, so don't really understand what God actually is or means or is meant to do, and merely believe or don't believe in the Book they've read or not read, while for some, the Book itself is the God. There's all sorts, I guess.

I agree I'm radical, at least as far as Nigerians are concerned. I think its because unlike most, I began and have lived most of my life as a sceptic atheist so I see things without the brainwashing of religion. Sceptism to religious belief and practice as a result or consequence of my atheism made me search for understanding, which is why I can appreciate religious books. For me, if Mohammed had written a story book and made it as widely available as the Quran is, I'd still regard him highly. Thankfully, he wrote a book that helps those who understand grow in knowledge and wisdom, which is why it's called "The Word of God.

If only people could understand that the book is like the finger and not the moon it points to, perhaps they'd be sceptical of their own understanding and look further. As Christ put it, "unless one abandons all brainwashing and preconceived ideas and become as a child looking at things anew one shall not acquire an understanding of God." But he also said that's as difficult as threading a camel through a needle's eye, which is why we are forgiven.our ignorance, because, obviously, we know not as much as we think we know.

A couple of us have decided to try slogging through Heidegger's Being and Time, and I have the feeling you might enjoy it, and a Muslim's perspective would likely grow us all since I've learnt much from you already. I'll invite you once I start a thread. I think you would find it interesting.

The bit I emboldened is confirmed by [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A31-46&version=KJV]the quote below[/url], and is evidence that God is most Merciful and Wise and wishes us to grow in knowledge and understanding and wisdom.