duduspace:

I see yur point, but yu've still got to give credit to the policy and how much its saved the club. The current true value of the squad is definitely much more than the cost but its still credit to the manager to have built up such a squad with relatively minimal outlay without sacrificing the footballing principles and maintaining a top 4 position at all times.

but what titles did arsene win while building this squad?

debosky:

I agree - but that is the type of shallow thinking promoted by sky and the tabloids' hype over transfer fees.

However, since you don't have subsisting offers for RVP at the moment, it is nearly impossible to properly quantify his 'present day' worth.

it's not impossible. i don't need to be a rocket scientist to know van persie is better than andy caroll. if caroll can go for 35 milla, then my sixth sense tells me van persie will be around 40 milla(glass body or no glass body).

Nevertheless, the value he was bought for remains a pertinent measure - the only other quantifiable way to do it would be to include wages paid say over the 6 years for RVP. The inherent flaw in the latter approach is that we can confidently presume that the wages would've been spent regardless, either on RVP or on another striker in his place. Therefore, the only externally comparable measure remains the transfer fee incurred.

At best, the inflationary increases could be factored in - £2.75m in 2004 might be worth say £8m today - that will be a reasonable comparator.

you are chatting bollocks if you think £2.75m in 2004 is £8m today. what do you think this is? investment banking or fixed deposit? i buy a building for 2.75 milla in 2005 and i spend about 80k a week for six years to Behind this property - making sure a group of elite individuals wine n dine in this property throughout that period and you think if i revalue the property, the value would be 8 milla? does it occur to you van persie has picked an average of 6 milla per annum? 6m  X 6 yrs is what?

*Cougar*:

it's not impossible. i don't need to be a rocket scientist to know van persie is better than andy caroll. if caroll can go for 35 milla, then my sixth sense tells me van persie will be around 40 milla(glass body or no glass body).

£40m indeed - I wager right now that nobody on planet earth will offer that for RVP. It is highly unreasonable to use the exceptional circumstances of Carroll's purchase to benchmark player values.

you are chatting bollocks if you think £2.75m in 2004 is £8m today. what do you think this is? investment banking or fixed deposit? i buy a building for 2.75 milla in 2005 and i spend about 80k a week for six years to Behind this property - making sure a group of elite individuals wine n dine in this property throughout that period and you think if i revalue the property, the value would be 8 milla? does it occur to you van persie has picked an average of 6 milla per annum? 6m  X 6 yrs is what?

Didn't I say may? Or are you dyslexic?

Secondly, inflationary pressure I mentioned was with regards to player transfer values and not simply the CPI or RPI impact.

The truth is, the wages can be subtracted from the argument because that financial outlay would've been expended by the club with or without RVP's purchase on another striker.

How can you remove players wages from it when a player can move for free and still claim 200,000 per week

Ballack on a free with 130,000 per week or Nasri that came for 10m but on 50k per week.

Which one cost the club more on a 4yr contract?

debosky:

£40m indeed - I wager right now that nobody on planet earth will offer that for RVP. It is highly unreasonable to use the exceptional circumstances of Carroll's purchase to benchmark player values.

city paid 25 milla for adebayor. van persie will command 35+ milla if you display him in the market. trust me!

Didn't I say may? Or are you dyslexic? 
Secondly, inflationary pressure I mentioned was with regards to player transfer values and not simply the CPI or RPI impact.

fact is van persie has improved as a striker. the van persie of 2005 is way inferior to the van persie of 2011. he has been serviced weekly too with a 5-figure salary. . . .of course, his value has appreciated astronomically without counting his number of appearances in the premier league, champions league experience and starring for holland(a top five nation in the fifa world rankings).

The truth is, the wages can be subtracted from the argument because that financial outlay would've been expended by the club with or without RVP's purchase on another striker.

but the wages were spent on van persie. his medical bills have been picked by arsenal. even when he was accused of molesting a nigerian model in amsterdam, wenger was the solicitior that ensured van persie's release and you want us to subtract his wages from his value? debosky, if you practise as an accountant, you will go to gaol.

dayokanu:

How can you remove players wages from it when a player can move for free and still claim 200,000 per week

Ballack on a free with 130,000 per week or Nasri that came for 10m but on 50k per week.

Which one cost the club more on a 4yr contract?

don't mind debosky. as if the wages weren't paid by arsenal fc and it was dangote that kept paying van persie's wages. only arsenal fans would compare the 2.75m spent in 2005 and compare it to torres in 2011. van persie was a bench warmer in 2005. . . . . .torres will walk into chelsea's starting xi in 2011. the comparison is laughable. if arsenal were to buy van persie today in the market, how much would wenger paid for him? knowing he paid 16 milla for an eduardo who hails from an obscure league in croatia in 2007. . . .wenger will pay 40 mllla for van persie today.

BAYERN MUNICH

1. Hans Jorg Butt - Free transfer
2. Phillip Lahm - Youth team product
3. Martin Demichelis -7million
4 Daniel Van Buyten - Undisclosed
5 Holger Badstuber - Youth team product
6. Bastian Schweinsteiger- Youth team product
7. Mark Van Bommel- Undisclosed
8. Arjen Robben- 25million
9. Thomas Muller - Youth team product
10 Ivica Olic - Free transfer
11. Hamit Altintop -  Free transfer.

This was the Bayern team that played the CL finals in May and won a domestic double. (Total 32million)

If wenGAY is called a magician for going trophyless with a more expensive team, the Loius van is GOD

See this madman. . . .Wenger's team would've won Bundesliga three times in a row since 07/08.

The league is clearly substandard.

debosky:

See this madman. . . .Wenger's team would've won Bundesliga three times in a row since 07/08.

The league is clearly substandard.

i doubt it. arsene wenger will not win any league with fabianski/almunia in goal. try and be honest for once.

@debosky gbam!! Tell the madd man dayokanu that he has no business talking about any EPL team. Bayern munich is clearly a kin to a one eyed man who is king in the land of the blind. We dey find animal wey get horn snail sef dey show face. Shior!

*Cougar*:

i doubt it. arsene wenger will not win any league with fabianski/almunia in goal. try and be honest for once.

Arsene wenGAY that has played CL semi twice in his 15yrs at Assanal would win BL?

I laff in trophylessness

And a great final in style once plus being the best coach of the decade and going unbeaten in a higher rated league than bundesliga. I laugh in EPL better life!

*Cougar*:

but what titles did arsene win while building this squad?

The OP didn't mention anything about trophies, only cost comparisons. The building is about done and now the trophies can start coming in. Guess who we'll be knocking off their perch soon?

duduspace:

The OP didn't mention anything about trophies, only cost comparisons. The building is about done and now the trophies can start coming in. Guess who we'll be knocking off their perch soon?

When you are hopeless what would happen to you, Go trophyless right and thats exactly what has been happening to WenGAY.

Knocking off perch? the same chorus you have been singing for a while now and there is still a 5 point gap

dayokanu:


When you are hopeless what would happen to you, Go trophyless right and thats exactly what has been happening to WenGAY.

Knocking off perch? the same chorus you have been singing for a while now and there is still a 5 point gap

cool down, the season aint over yet. lots of games yet to play.

Sunday wey go good na from Saturday we dey know.

A team that would knock another off perch na December we dey know

To knock Manu off perch is an impossible task. If U are hoping Chelsea will do you that favour,then you had better start seeking another means. Chelsea priority now is the CL, they have conceded the EPL to Manu and not ready to do battle with Manu in the EPL.
Least you forget, Ferguson's priority this season is EPL, he wants that 19th record. He is ready to sacrifice CL for the EPL.
To all the Arsenal fans, you had better stick to your level --- winining the Carling Cup.
So that your cleaning staff will have jobs next season-- cleaning the Carling cup trophy.

codeb:

To knock Manu off perch is an impossible task. If U are hoping Chelsea will do you that favour,then you had better start seeking another means. Chelsea priority now is the CL, they have conceded the EPL to Manu and not ready to do battle with Manu in the EPL.
Least you forget, Ferguson's priority this season is EPL, he wants that 19th record. He is ready to sacrifice CL for the EPL.
To all the Arsenal fans, you had better stick to your level --- winining the Carling Cup.
So that your cleaning staff will have jobs next season-- cleaning the Carling cup trophy.

Who be this one with 'beer parlour' permutations!
Are you Fergie or Lotti to come here and be telling us priorities?
Rubbish

if wenger is a spirit, what name will u call the man that won fa cup with porthsmouth from the relegation zone. what name do we call this same man from bring totteharm from the relegation zone to a tittle challanging club? i am talking abt rednap.
what about the one who out of nothing won a champions league with a back yard team like porto and also win champions league with rejected players like etoo over there in inter milan? i am talking about the special one.
if arsenal are a very good side as many of us here are saying, why are their players not earning better salaries than other players in other teams? is the reward for quality players low salaries?
gathering and selling of less priveledged players to make money under this modern colonization of the french magots have been turned to greatness. why is it that any player that leaves arsenal becomes a terrorist to the coach and to the fans. is professional football no longer a business where workers work for a better salary?
these great players in arsenal can only be great in arsenal where they have chances of playing every day because of lack of competition.
why was henry not the greatest in barca, kolo toure in man city, adebayor in man city, flamini in ac milan, and a host of other arsenal players.
can anyone here compare the above moved players with the likes of nester roy, forlan, rossi, arjen robben etc.
in the land of the blind, one eyed man there is definitely the king.
in arsenal, most of them can do their acrobats and dribble the goal keeper and posts but such shits can never happen in clubs like chelsea or man u.
tell me that charcharito will not be made captain if he goes to arsenal tomorow. imagine a babatov in arsenal. tell me what will happen if drogba is in arsenal, he will be choosing the team. oh my God, can john terry be an ordinary player in arsenal?
RVP may worth 10 billion in arsenal but what happens if he is to be in the same team with the likes of drogba, babatov and torres or evel anelka, can he get a playing time?
as an academy, any name is kool for wenger but as an epl team, he is only a trader as he talks more of buying and selling than the real job of a coach.
if i may ask, is wenger the president of arsenal or is he also the sporting director? why is wenger more involved in the clubs management and business than bringing in trophy for the traders who own the club.

dayokanu:

Sunday wey go good na from Saturday we dey know.

A team that would knock another off perch na December we dey know

What a nonsensical comment - two seasons ago, Liverpool was top of the table in December, did they win the title?

The fact remains that, as things currently stand, Arsenal is the closest opposition to Utd for the title, especially when you consider we have played all the 'major' opposition away (except Tottenham).

debosky:

What a nonsensical comment - two seasons ago, Liverpool was top of the table in December, did they win the title?

The fact remains that, as things currently stand, Arsenal is the closest opposition to Utd for the title, especially when you consider we have played all the 'major' opposition away (except Tottenham).

and there lies your delusion. arsenal's achilles heel is at the emirates, not away from home. 2 newly-promoted teams have washed the floor with arsenal by playing your boys off the park.

What a nonsensical comment - two seasons ago, Liverpool was top of the table in December, did they win the title? Huh

The fact remains that, as things currently stand, Arsenal is the closest opposition to Utd for the title, especially when you consider we have played all the 'major' opposition away (except Tottenham).

@debosky,
uncle, if you go back to last season and check your last 7 or 8 games, u will know that the season was urs but becuase u are arsenal, very very unpredictable, u ended up loosing it.
is possible u will win tottenham and loose to wolves and west ham.
if you don't know ur club, let me draw it for u.
most of arsenal fans are hsitorians.

*Cougar*:

and there lies your delusion. arsenal's achilles heel is at the emirates, not away from home. 2 newly-promoted teams have washed the floor with arsenal by playing your boys off the park.

That was an early season anomaly and nothing more. Our home form has clearly improved from those blips.

1025:

@debosky,
uncle, if you go back to last season and check your last 7 or 8 games, u will know that the season was urs but becuase u are arsenal, very very unpredictable, u ended up loosing it.
is possible u will win tottenham and loose to wolves and west ham.
if you don't know your club, let me draw it for u.
most of arsenal fans are hsitorians.

The last 7 or 8 games had more to do with an injury crisis than any perceived inconsistency. The same way losing Rooney in the CL affected Utd's title run in.

debosky:

That was an early season anomaly and nothing more. Our home form has clearly improved from those blips.

it hasn't. wait until the big boys arrive at the emirates again. thank feck you are facing andy caroll again at the emirates. koscielny must be very worried.

Who knows whether he'll be out for that game after another 6 hour Jaeger bomb session?

Besides, the main cause of Carroll's goal was Fabiyanskee - Wojciech will play next time. No need debating that anyways, we'll see when the big boys come around.

debosky:

Who knows whether he'll be out for that game after another 6 hour Jaeger bomb session?

Besides, the main cause of Carroll's goal was Fabiyanskee - Wojciech will play next time. No need debating that anyways, we'll see when the big boys come around.

i laugh in arshavin . . . . . .the only thing you will win this year is. . . .

The last 7 or 8 games had more to do with an injury crisis than any perceived inconsistency. The same way losing Rooney in the CL affected Utd's title run in.

@debosky,
is possible this same injury crises has been responsible for this 6 yrs drought in arsenal that they have failed in winning anything all these while.
what is your gaurrantee that there won't be injuries to your players when the game gets to the final stages?

1025:

@debosky,
is possible this same injury crises has been responsible for this 6 yrs drought in arsenal that they have failed in winning anything all these while.
what is your gaurrantee that there won't be injuries to your players when the game gets to the final stages?

I won't get into a debate over the previous seasons here. No one can guarantee fitness at the final stages - Rooney was out last season for example.

@1025
No one can say for certain who will get injured and who won't, the only thing one can say about us this season is that we are better equipped to cope with injuries, for example Chamakh who led our line well in the earlier part of the season can't seem to get a game now with the other strikers fit, Vermaelen our best defender from last season also has been out for about 3 months now and we've coped quite well.
Even Captain Fantastic has only started 20 games after earlier injuries while the likes of Wilshere who was out on loan have started 28 games and we're still active in all competitions.

@1025
No one can say for certain who will get injured and who won't, the only thing one can say about us this season is that we are better equipped to cope with injuries, for example Chamakh who led our line well in the earlier part of the season can't seem to get a game now with the other strikers fit, Vermaelen our best defender from last season also has been out for about 3 months now and we've coped quite well.
Even Captain Fantastic has only started 20 games after earlier injuries while the likes of Wilshere who was out on loan have started 28 games and we're still active in all competitions.

@duduspace,
i like ur write up above. u talk sports. wenger will always use injuries as excuses forgetting that no team can go all the way without injuries. essien was out most part of last season and bosingwa never played. yet chelsea went ahead to pick the double. arsenal is better equiped this yr like u said and this is because no team fail for wenger's trap and pranks. nobody was willing to buy from him and i will tell u, if things happen this way for two more seasons, he will be sacked because the money will not be flowing and the inflow of cash has been the reason for wenger's remaining as the coach. most ppl have known his style of buying and selling.
so if the club fails to win things and their usual trading businss refuses to flourish as usual, he will face the door.
i love arsenal fans when it comes to patience. they can endure 10 more yrs and back it up with more and more reasons.

It all comes down to numbers and the balance sheets. Portsmouth is in the championship and will be there for some time but hey they won the FA cup in the past 3 years.

Wenger is a magician and a genius considering his policy and how he has integrated a business model that even Chelsea and Man City acknowledge is the way forward. One thing you can't argue is that the team is definitely not on a downward spiral. A club like Chelsea can't always depend on Roman cos at some point its not sustainable for them, they put themselves in a tight corner and would have to at least qualify for Champs league every season or risk huge losses adding to an already negative balance sheets. This is the fear behind signing Torres and Luiz even with bad losses.

Trophies? Yeah, they will come with this policy and added cash, the world is not ending so it will come. Remember Arsenal pays better wages for youth talents and that means loyalty to club and Arsene. My only concern is how does Arsenal replace Wenger? He is indeed special.

It all comes down to numbers and the balance sheets. Portsmouth is in the championship and will be there for some time but hey they won the FA cup in the past 3 years.

Wenger is a magician and a genius considering his policy and how he has integrated a business model that even Chelsea and Man City acknowledge is the way forward. One thing you can't argue is that the team is definitely not on a downward spiral. A club like Chelsea can't always depend on Roman cos at some point its not sustainable for them, they put themselves in a tight corner and would have to at least qualify for Champs league every season or risk huge losses adding to an already negative balance sheets. This is the fear behind signing Torres and Luiz even with bad losses.

Trophies? Yeah, they will come with this policy and added cash, the world is not ending so it will come. Remember Arsenal pays better wages for youth talents and that means loyalty to club and Arsene. My only concern is how does Arsenal replace Wenger? He is indeed special.

@kcjazz,
u spoil everything when u mention special behind wenger. in football, we have only one special and his name is mourinmo or u call him mour mour.
if you call him magician, we can consider that as he showed in his game against new casstle yesterday. uncle, apart from arsenal, do u know of anyother club in the world where the coach is in charge of the clubs business and financial transactions?
there is what we call DIVISSION OF LABOUR in football just like in every other companies. wenger has lost it on the picth hence he decides to divert attention of the club to money.
clubs have positions and offices for all these. i get sick with informed people who always talk about wenger and club's money making me to believe the club has no president, sporting directors and scouts.
we expected wenger to change formation yesterday when diaby was sent off rather he was busy thinking which club will come and buy his premature players for 500 million pounds.
when we talk abt wenger's policy, we are talking abt sending away players when they are up to 30. look at pires, he is still playing well while wenger discharged him 6 yrs ago. why going back for campbell when u let him leave at his prime? why buying sylvester when u hate old players? what policy are u talking abt? policy of cheap players?
when u have such low paid players, u dont blame them if they loose 4 - 0 lead.
whenever arsenal looses in such a game, fabregas will see himself in a starnge land and next thing that will come to his mind is, I AM GOING. unfortuantely, i don't think barca will be ready to pay that big amount for him now and no other person will.
if all clubs stop buying from wenger, u will soon remove the special u put for him bcs he will be loosing on both fronts.

@1025

Well lets put it this way, if I have to invest in a club for retirement earnings, that club would be Arsenal FC. If my son has a dream to become a professional footballer, the club I would most likely suggest is Arsenal FC.

I call him special not because of trophies but because he decided to follow the vision of the club fully and sometimes at his own detriment, you can't argue that he can't win trophies because he has done those in the past but at some point he felt he could provide more to the game and the club.
Remember, unlike Chelsea or Man City, there are no sole benefactors at Arsenal, hence the decision to move to Emirates was purely for the club to compete at the top level for many years to come and that was made by shareholders.

Wenger is a manager, the modern day manager must be ready to follow the owners manual, to claim that he is a jack of all trade is totally wrong. Cos even Sir Alex has a say in scouting, who comes or who goes and if Old Trafford has to move to a new location they would ask his inputs, it is what managers do.

The UEFA Financial Fairplay 2014, Arsenal is qualified already while others are struggling to balance their books. Thanks to Wengers vision and eye for talent. The original poster of this thread gave player figures, compare that to Chelsea FC for example. With the money invested in Chelsea, I find it funny that one can complain about Arsene Wenger. I expect them to have won CC by now but their records are the same with Arsenal in the past 5 years, runners up and semi finalists. Problem is Roman is no longer going to splash cash like before and with their loss today its hard to think they can make CC spot next season. Manchester and Arsenal are guaranteed 2 spots, the other 2 will be for City, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea. Not looking good for all the money spent. Truth is CC is money from earnings of 25-49 million from 1st round to Finals and a top club has to be there, that is what Wenger has done in the lean years at Arsenal.

It is also incorrect to say we pay our players peanuts, Arsenal is fourth in the league with paying players. Chelsea or Man City cannot get players cheap like Arsenal because of their history in the market. They are the "magas" of football market.

I respect Maurihno, he is a great coach but he doesn't fit with Arsenals Business model and so can't be hired at anytime but he has achieved much and I respect him. Yesterday was a disaster for the team, it was a bad day at the office, hopefully they will pick up next game. There is no way clubs can stop buying from Arsenal because we put in the work to produce them. Even at that, income from player sales are substantially low. It is what we use to run our vast scout network. If you need a failed example, think Ajax FC, they led the way but lost there track now they are getting back to youth system.

In all, I look at numbers and from what I have seen, this guy is a legend, its not about him because the foundations he has laid can only be fruitful in the future. That includes growth, branding, football style and business.